Mini 872: Mafia in Belgrove - That's All Folks

[crypto]

You do bring up a point which is not being refuted by anyone. If Raskol is scum, then Raskol has to be scum with me.

Yay! Kiku-scum anticipates her doom and implicates Raskol-town in advance. (Applause.)

We don't know whether or not he's cop tomorrow because we don't know for sure there's even a cop in the first place, though I suspect there is. If he is the cop, then there are three confirmed townies today out of eight. Regardless, either he or one of his innocents will be killed tonight.

Bearing in mind that the mafia will kill either Gyro, Raskol, or xvart, and assuming that xvart is the cop (L = lynch; NL = no lynch; C = cop; NC = non-cop):

NL (8) > xvart is killed (7) > 2 confirmed town (NC, NC), 2 unconfirmed town, 3 mafia
NL (8) > Gyro/Raskol is killed (7) > 3 confirmed town (C, NC, NC), 1 unconfirmed town, 3 mafia

NL (8) > tonight's investigation is killed (7) > 3 confirmed town (C, NC, NC), 1 unconfirmed town, 3 mafia
NL (8) > non-xvart and non-confirmed/investigated is killed (7) > 4 confirmed town (C, NC, NC, NC), 3 mafia

L (7) > xvart is killed (6) > 2 confirmed town (NC, NC), 2 unconfirmed town, 2 mafia
L (7) > Gyro/Raskol is killed (6) > 3 confirmed town (C, NC, NC), 1 unconfirmed town, 2 mafia

L (7) > tonight's investigation is killed (6) > 3 confirmed town (C, NC, NC), 1 unconfirmed town, 2 mafia
L (7) > non-xvart and non-confirmed/investigated is killed (1) > 4 confirmed town (C, NC, NC, NC), 2 mafia

I think those are the options, barring stupid stuff like the mafia no-killing. The unlikelies are crossed out; the rest are where I think we will stand tomorrow.

Therefore, lynch havingfitz. Remember, he's malpascp; remember, malpascp was a scum bucket.

[crypto]

kikuchiyo
walrus helmet

Again, though, this all hinges on xvart being the cop and his hypo results being legit results. I guess I could live with a no-lynch given that I worry xvart might be a mafioso who's been playing us all along. That would call for hardcore cunning on his part, though, given how cop-like his part in the cop convo way back then looked.

[crypto]

Wow.

Unvote. Vote: no lynch.

[crypto]

We're lynching either walrus helmet or nobody today.

[crypto]

No.

[crypto]

Netopalis, when you question my switch—are you taking issue with my choice being walrus instead of havingfitz, or with my choice

changing

from havingfitz to walrus?

[crypto]

Nope.

[crypto]

That was a very town-tasting response, actually.

I switched because I searched some isos. and walrus has been ignored way too much for my liking. I'm not totally confident about havingfitz now, so it'd be stupid not to no-lynch.

[crypto]

Xvart, I've gone to thinking havingfitz may be jockeying with not only walrus helmet but also Netopalis for a scum slot.

[col]

Town

[col]

Unknown

xvart[col]kikuchiyo Gyro[col]walrus helmet Raskol[col]Netopalis (crypto)[col]havingfitz
At this point I'm inclined to say kikuchiyo and walrus helmet are most likely scum, but I really can't make any progress no matter which way I look at it. I do feel like kiku is the one constant.

[crypto]

So long story short, I want to breathe in, no-lynch, breathe out, and start hanging scum tomorrow with either another flip's worth of info or a miraculous investigation. From there it'll need to be flawless scum chain lynches.

[crypto]

Ohhh, no, you don't. You haven't been posting substantial cases at all and I maintain my stance that you rarely deviate from the flow of convo. I'm not interested in elaborating my suspicion of you, currently. I'm more interested in working out kiku, walrus, and havingfitz.

[crypto]

Mod, I'll probably be V/LA for Thanksgiving, though I assume other people will be too. I can't remember if you already mentioned this or not.

Netopalis

Again, you're not even close to my top choices for scum. Note that the four suspects I keep bringing up—you, kikuchiyo, walrus helmet, and havingfitz—are

half the surviving player list

. They are everyone who's still alive excluding me, xvart, and xvart's supposed innocents. I'm assuming one mafia with three members for now because there have been too few kills for a two-man mafia

and

a serial killer (unless he no-killed or was blocked both nights), and if there were four scum the game would've ended already.

I really want to say walrus helmet, kikuchiyo, and havingfitz are the way to go, but I can conceive of being mistaken about walrus helmet and I see things from kikuchiyo that

might

mean she's town. As for havingfitz, I don't know. I'm still mulling over him and I have a hard time seeing him be town based on my meta of malpascp, but that meta has been pretty much ignored so whatever. My suspicion of walrus helmet isn't as self-contained. A lot of his posts rub me wrong, but then other posts swing the other way. The real key for me is that I don't like how widely he's been ignored. He addresses other players, but other players seem not to address him. Sure, he can't be scum buddies with nine out of twelve players, but his two teammates would make for a significant fraction of the overall player pool ... which is shrinking rapidly.

So there are a few possibilities too many for my liking. If we mislynch today, I won't forgive myself; the same can't be said of playing it safe with a no-lynch.

[crypto]

Popping in briefly to say I think havingfitz's last couple of posts are scummy.

[crypto]

I'll hop on the havingfitz wagon.

[crypto]

Why the hell is it not night yet?

[crypto]

crypto, would you be willing to lynch walrus helmet today?

No. I'd rather no-lynch. I'm not confident in any lynch options today.

[crypto]

Xvart, what?

Gyro could still be scum then. Great. But it's still definitely possible that he's a power role because of the jailkeeper.

Raskol, you're going to have to give damn good reasons for lynching today after pushing so hard for no lynch.

[crypto]

Unvote.

Oh, also, Raskol, you're wrong about at least one person in your scum team, so I'm not sure following either of your other two reads would be wise at this point.

I may need to do a mega-reread now bearing in mind xvart isn't the cop.

[crypto]

Boo.

(Not boo to walrus, though.)

[crypto]

Okay, it probably will not surprise you that Raskol's sudden pressure has encouraged me to reexamine things (plus I'm in an industrious mood), so during the three-hour car ride I'll reread isos. and try to get something done on my laptop, and ideally I'll make a post later today when I get home.

[crypto]

And upon actually looking at Raskol's posts ... Was that a tracker claim?

That

explains the jailkeeper. Which also means I can't blindly believe Gyro's claim, though it is still entirely possible that there's another power role (and that Gyro is in fact legit).

[crypto]

Also, I'm not really convinced of Crypto's guilt...he's seemed very pro-town to me.

I support this statement.

If one cracked my password, broke into my account, and read my role PMs, one would see that I am always town.

[crypto]

Oh, and if for argument's sake* we were to lynch either walrus helmet or Gyro today, and no one else, walrus helmet would be the play, as he has not claimed a role.

* I cannot emphasize enough that

this is for argument's sake

, as I'm not yet sold on any lynch, though.

---

And while I'm here (and before I forget),

Raskol

, why the

heck

didn't you track Gyro?

[crypto]

Neto: tracker, jailkeeper, possibly vigilante. Roleblocker would be a bit much unless the mafia is really stacked.

[crypto]

Okay, just got back. I read some of the game and did a smattering of isos.; I'll make a real post once I get back from dinner in a little while (my family just can't frigging sit still). For now, I'll say that I was once again torn between walrus helmet, kikuchiyo, Netopalis, and havingfitz. I've narrowed it down to walrus, kiku, and fitz. Again, I'll explain why ASAP tonight.

I haven't read all the new posts yet, but:

Oh, and one more thing about crypto:

I'll hop on the havingfitz wagon.

crypto, would you be willing to lynch walrus helmet today?

No. I'd rather no-lynch. I'm not confident in

any

lynch options today.

This was one of the kickers for both the [having and crypto are not scum together] and the [walrus and crypto are probably scum together] and the [crypto is probably scum] assumptions.

Um, no, that would be me changing my mind for the thousandth time in the past few (real life) days about scum teams.

[crypto]

Clarification: That means I think the mafia consists of walrus helmet, kikuchiyo, and havingfitz. Netopalis still has an

outside

chance, but he's not one of my picks.

Xvart, I'm a vanilla townie.

[crypto]

Also, Raskol, I like how you urged me not to switch my vote to walrus helmet, but then when I changed my mind to suit your preference you used it against me. No matter what I do, I'm doing the wrong thing.

[crypto]

Netopalis, why are you acting as though the default should be to suspect Gyro?

I guess I'll pick havingfitz to claim next. I don't really get what the point of a mass claim is, in this situation.

[crypto]

Xvart, I'm ambivalent about the process in general. Scum can just claim vanilla townie and move on, or they can claim a power role if they've got some trick up their sleeve.

[crypto]

Raskol, havingfitz is now narrowly more suspicious to me than walrus. They've been flip-flopping in my head all day, though. I don't get what the big deal is. Your case for my scumminess seems rather lacking.

[crypto]

The other great thing about this method is that it blows chunks. I have been pressing walrus helmet for a long fucking time, and it's absolutely idiotic for scum to bus each other right out of the gate in MYLO, but that's beside the point. The point is that you are inviting scum to generate red herrings by establishing suspicious connections with other players. Your method is very flawed and a remotely clever mafioso could exploit it by planting alliances with or vendettas on various town-aligned players.

[crypto]

Vote: havingfitz.

Raskol, for the millionth time today, I think walrus helmet and havingfitz are two of the three scummiest players in the game. I've flip-flopped many times over whether no-lynching or lynching one of them is the best move today. You are attacking a straw man.

---

I have a couple of WordPad files with notes, but they're pretty incomplete and sloppy and all that. I probably won't post them unless someone insists.

The individual cases are boiled down and don't really do the fully fleshed out cases justice, but I'm too lazy to write a text wall. I'm not putting a ton of work into them because at this point it seems we've been having more trouble with scum team reads than with individual scum reads.

---

kikuchiyo

• Suspects Netopalis day 1 but
  never
  pursues him.
  
• Cycles between three incredibly easy targets (malpascp, Gyro, foilist13) on day 2 before quick-hammering foilist13.
  
• Uses a ton of WIFOM and various other crappy modes of argument to defend herself day 3.
  
• Blatantly appeals to Netopalis' emotion and then blatantly appeals to
  my
  emotion after I call her out for it.
  
• All the other things she's been accused of that I can't be bothered to review at the moment.
  
• Feel free to disagree with this point, but when I reread today, I found her language fueled by the subconscious bias of being scum. Some of the defenses she made screamed that she couldn't get mafia-based knowledge out of her head. I can't remember exactly which posts made me think this, which is extremely annoying. I'll try to track them down later/tomorrow.

havingfitz/malpascp

• Malpascp OMGUS-voted both me
  and
  Gyro. People seemed not to give the Gyro instance as much attention as it deserved.
  
• Havingfitz announces suspicion of Gyro, Raskol, and kikuchiyo today. Gyro and Raskol are both town to me; bearing in mind that I already find havingfitz scummy, I think that his inclusion of kiku is deliberate planting of a genuine read in order to procure future believability, if he needs to bus kiku today. This theory is supported by his focus on Raskol and Gyro rather than kiku.
  
• In another game, malpascp said OMGUS is a scum tell. He said this
  after
  he OMGUSed me in this game. Whoops!
  
• Malpascp did just enough to stay out of the spot light, lurking, being generally useless, and snapping at people who got frustrated with his garbage play. And then he replaced out. That looks to me much more like uninvested scum than uninvested town.
  
• Havingfitz suspects kikuchiyo for her quick hammer of Rhinox—which was a major reason the rest of us suspected her at that point in time. Surprise, surprise. In fact, havingfitz gave scant reasons for any of his FOSes (see his iso. 6, which I believe is largely fluff and IIOA).

walrus helmet

• Lots of irrelevant posting, as Netopalis said.
  
• FOSes both me and Netopalis, obviously setting up to attach himself to either bandwagon. Indecisiveness, little analysis, etc.
  
• Gets a town read from kikuchiyo for most of the game.
  
• Resists a malpascp lynch in favor of a replacement. Havingfitz was scummy for lurking
  and
  for other concrete reasons, so it was lame to avoid a lynch. Malpascp's inactivity wasn't the focal point of the malpascp case. As a result, it looks pretty much like walrus was hoping for a competent player to replace in as his scum buddy. If havingfitz is lynched and then flips scum, this would just about confirm walrus as his teammate.
  
• At one point (iso. 19), walrus voted for malpascp instead of Netopalis because Neto had been ignoring his questions. A townie doesn't just switch suspicions; he pursues his interrogation until his suspect complies. Walrus' vote switch therefore reeks of fake scum hunting.
  
• My gut really doesn't like iso. 29, but that's me.
  
• Speaking of gut feeling, walrus' removal of his random vote at the beginning of the game was way fishy.
  
• Iso. 34: uses me against kiku. Walrus' suspicion of me seems to have disintegrated without him mentioning it in the thread. What happened to the mindset expressed in isos. 13, 16, and 20, to name a few?
  
• Do an iso. read of walrus helmet. Search for "afatchic." Now search for "foilist13." Note the pattern? Of course you don't. There is no pattern. Walrus bandwagoned on foilist13 with zero prior suspicion. Zilch. Scum driving a mislynch, much? (This is one of the biggest points against walrus, in my opinion.)

I'm missing a lot of stuff and I know it. But there's the gist of things.

The only thing about walrus helmet is that he FOSes both kikuchiyo and havingfitz. Because I'm worried about that dynamic, I'm voting for havingfitz instead. I'm more convinced than before about havingfitz's alignment, and I'd rather hold off on resolving the walrus/kiku puzzle for now. Neto might wind up back in the mix tomorrow, too, but havingfitz's scumminess transcends that insanity, and he doesn't have really strong ties with my other suspects like that, so he's the safest lynch as far as I'm concerned.

Now, on day 3, barring a no-lynch:

• kikuchiyo's lynch choices:
  Gyro
  or
  Raskol
  
  Havingfitz's lynch choices:
  Gyro
  ,
  Raskol
  , or
  kikuchiyo
  
  Walrus helmet's lynch choices:
  kikuchiyo
  (but it seems he doesn't have much conviction as he quickly jumps to a no-lynch)

See the similarities? This looks like a concerted effort by fitz and kiku to lynch either Raskol or Gyro.

All three of these players (kiku, fitz, walrus) began butting heads some more later on as day 3 dragged on, but early on they were much less antagonistic toward each other than Raskol's interaction-based defense of kikuchiyo led me to believe. No, they didn't hold hands and frolic in the daisy fields, but a kiku/fitz scum team is actually the most probable option I can find. There are other things, too, like how kiku originally attacked malpascp on day 2 but then moved on to Gyro (probably town) and foilist (oopsy) when she got the chance.

Walrus has certainly attacked kikuchiyo, but not with a whole lot of conviction. And a meta of walrus helmet shows that he does tend to play with more tenacity than he is here ... The difference isn't striking, but it's there.

Anyway, havingfitz is still the safest shot today. I'm back on my one-man wagon for his lynch. I really like what I'm seeing.

[crypto]

Ugh, what a rushed, horribly written post. Please ask if you need anything clarified. Yecch.

Netopalis, I haven't been suspicious of Gyro for a while now. I found him legit town for his crazy suspicion of me—if he were scum, he and his teammates would probably have thought it through much differently at night, and early on during day 3 he would have probably said he tried to shoot a player who was a more popular suspect.

Also, the lack of a role block on Raskol night 2 implies a role block on Gyro, which helps support the case for his innocence (I guess it's possible the mafia intentionally chose not to block due to the possible presence of a tracker or watcher, but I find it less likely). Which means scum weren't comfortable with the players Gyro had voiced suspicion of during day 2, as he would probably have shot one of them. If the mafia expected Gyro to guess wrong and shoot a townie instead of a mafioso, they'd have let him fire.

Which means—oh, shit. Rereading for Gyro's day 2 suspects.

[crypto]

Oh, and I'm fine with a walrus helmet lynch if he's really more popular than havingfitz today. I just think malpascp was inexcusably scummy, and havingfitz doesn't look good either. And my scum read on him isn't stained with weird kikuchiyo interactions like my read of walrus is. Then again, I could be wrong about my kiku-scum read.

[crypto]

Gyro claimed vigilante. Raskol wasn't necessarily a power role.

[crypto]

Netopalis, are you sure you don't have a night action?

[crypto]

I dunno. (Twiddles thumbs.)

Oh, who did you suspect at the beginning of day 3?

[crypto]

Walrus helmet is at L–1.

[crypto]

I can just hammer if you all want.

[crypto]

I don't follow.

N1: The mafia blocked Raskol, possibly because he looked like a power role and possibly just because he was pro-town.
N2: The mafia blocked someone other than Raskol, that person probably being Gyro because Gyro claimed vig and because lack of a second kill would cast suspicion over Gyro. It checks out with his story. I do admit that his story still isn't confirmed, but it's more likely than it was before Raskol's tracker claim, I think.

EBWOP: Wait, nevermind. I miscounted. Kikchiyo could do it.

Ahem.

I

am accusing kiku of being walrus's scum partner (kind of).

Lord Raskol, please tell me to hammer walrus helmet so I can hammer him. I am getting antsy.

Mod edit: vc


No lynch [1] ( Kikuchiyo)
Netopalis [1] (Gyro)
walrus helmet [3] (Raskol,Netopalis, xvart)
Gyro [1] (Havingfitz)
Havingfitz [1] (crypto)

Not voting : [1] (walrus helmet)

With 8 alive it takes 5 to lynch

[crypto]

Good point. If walrus is town, the game's over anyway.

[crypto]

The windup:

unvote.

[crypto]

Xvart, what is my prize?

[crypto]

No. I'm just annoyed and trying to stretch out my move because I thought Raskol was online.

Vote: walrus helmet.

There, now you have the hammer, bitch.

I'd like to think if I were scum I'd just get the job done. It's good to know your impression of my intelligence is so low.

[crypto]

Also, that was a Go-Go Gadget Town post by you. You should have let me hammer if you were scum. Which solidifies my kiku/walrus/fitz team read. So let's GTFO.

[crypto]

The above post refers to Neto, not Raskol, whose head is still up his bum hole as far as his read of me goes.

[crypto]

Addendum upon actually paying attention to Raskol's post:

Again, Raskol, good grief, if I am scum am I really going to dick around like that?

[crypto]

FFS,

the quick hammer

. I could've just voted instead of winding up or whatever.

[crypto]

Oh, I get it.

I'm not scum, though. Your theory is thin at best and porous as all hell at worst.

[crypto]

*bangs head repeatedly on keyboard*

[crypto]

Are you fucking serious, xvart? Reread my case. It's oodles better than your unfounded theory.

You have a town read on me all game. You throw it out because Raskol made a really transparently shitty case for me being scum. Then you beat me over the head with the fact that you piggybacked on said transparently shitty case. It's one thing to use interactions as support for the case that I'm scum, but it's another to build the case around those interactions when you have NOTHING, ZERO, ZILCH, NADA else going for me being scum. Sweet fuck, you people, use your fucking brains.

ALERT:

Netopalis, please step up to the plate and hammer walrus helmet

now

. I'm totally busted and you can lynch me tomorrow. Really, I've been expressing a scum read on walrus helmet all game, but Raskol is totally right; it makes complete sense that I'm his scum buddy based on some pinheaded connect-the-dots theory in spite of the fact that EVERYTHING points to walrus and I

not

being teammates. Seriously. Raskol figured it out. Damn it. How could I have failed so hard? Raskol, you are a truly brilliant player. The greatest scum hunter ever to live, a master at

plucking bullshit scum theories

reading between the lines and catching entire mobs of scumbags simultaneously.

/sarcasm

[crypto]

UNVOTE. THERE ARE TWO MAFIOSI LEFT. IF YOU AND GYRO ARE BOTH TOWN THEN THEY CAN QUICK-HAMMER AND WIN.

[crypto]

(Note I'm sure Raskol/Gyro have no interest in phone sex (or maybe they do , flavour is..quite obviously in this case just flavour, and done for my amusement)

I was more troubled by portraying us as the type of people who would beat the guts out of a dead walrus.

[crypto]

Oh, four? Okay.

Also posting more later, after other players chime in.

[crypto]

Yeah, I pretty blatantly misread the mod update.

[crypto]

And you aren't self-voting why?

[crypto]

Okay, Gyro's last post confirms that he didn't just slip and give up. Had to check because as far as I can tell, his tantrum before the lynch was a blatant town tell. It's possible he was claiming mafia, but then there was this:

should have listened to Gyro aka voice a reason, I was the most pro town in the game but I was too busy to post coherently and got all newbie gimmicky on ya'll. SOUNDIN NERVOUS AND SHIT.

That's an obvious town tell. Gyro thought he was right and basically wrote a post-game tirade.

So that's that. Still mulling over kikuchiyo/Netopalis/havingfitz. Should have something decent up shortly.

---

Now, xvart, please explain again why I am scum. Oh, wait, let me guess: I bused walrus helmet. Shoot. It wasn't just that I HAPPENED to have a correct scum read, right?

[crypto]

Uh, no? Wanna give a single decent reason for your piggybacking?

[crypto]

Wow. WOW. Nice wagon.

Vote: havingfitz.

If the mafia doesn't quick-vote for L – 1 and hammer by the time havingfitz returns and unvotes, then havingfitz is scum.

I don't get the case against Gyro. His flip-out at the end of day 3 looked like a clear town tell to me. I don't get the case against me, either, though, so … I guess I'm the crackpot here.

Gyro, I can't remember if I've asked this before, but if you have experience on another site could you please link to a game you played there, or at least tell us the site's name and your username there so I can look you up (in a non-stalker sort of way, as last time I did an inter-site meta I was accused of stalking )?

[crypto]

WHAT THE FUCK? YOU PEOPLE ARE SO. FUCKING. STUPID. YOU STUPID FUCKHEADS JUST HAMMERED WITHOUT EVEN LETTING ME ANSWER YOUR BULLSHIT.

Sweet fuck, I hope I never again have to play with any of you. You are all horrible players.

[crypto]

Wow. This was such a winnable game, too. Great job, guys.

[crypto]

I don't even know. That was the dumbest fucking LYLO I have ever fucking seen. What is wrong with you, xvart? Are you that fucking impatient?

[crypto]

Just wow. This is the worst town play I have ever seen in forum Mafia.

[crypto]

It helps when townies are absolute fucking idiots. Who was your teammate?

[crypto]

Okay, good. Walrus' wishy-washy busing of malpascp was obvious and I would have killed myself if mal/fitz inexplicably flipped town.

I'm never playing with Kikuchiyo, Gyro, or xvart again. I hope all three of them flake the site. Truly awful.

[crypto]

Erratic voting? Tunneling? I guess if you think attacking three players at a time is tunneling, then whatever. And your failure to recognize that tunneling is pro-town as often as anti-town further proves your misunderstanding of the game. Your wagon on Gyro when you KNEW I was going to come back and post in the near future was inexcusable. You are a horrible player.

[crypto]

This doesn't really bother me. I was right on a scum read early. That makes me feel good. Perhaps if Gyro hadn't played so terrible we wouldn't have been in this situation. Point is, this is a team game. WE lost. YOU are being a sore loser.

Oh, no. Don't even go there. I absolutely have the right to be pissed off at you. I spend over a month playing this game and you go out of your way to wreck it in a matter of moments.

For the millionth time, Gyro was obvious town. The setup has a jailkeeper. You don't put in a fucking jailkeeper in a mini normal when there is only ONE other town power role, especially if that role is just a tracker. Your repeated refusal to accept that confirmation of Gyro's role claim was unspeakable bad. So was your COMPLETELY unreasonable refusal that Gyro's outburst at the end of day 3 was a

blatant

town tell. You blew the game.

[crypto]

I'm never playing with Kikuchiyo,

Gyro

, or xvart again. I hope all three of them flake the site. Truly awful.

Fixed. Gyro was fine.

[crypto]

It does, but that's not reason for a blacklist. I'm not that big a jerk.

[crypto]

Bullshit. Just bullshit. Take the blame. You and xvart lost this game for the town.

Does this look like bad communication?

Preview edit: Kiku, what is your Raskol read, and why?

Unvote.

I go to sleep for nine hours and there’s been yet another flurry of activity in that time. That’s more than enough to persuade me to join in the play-it-safe camp and step as far away as possible from any L–0, even for a no-lynch.

I was about to say Xvart may be scum pulling a fast one on us, but Kiku beat me to the punch. She makes a valid and smart point, but it collides hard with my town read on him, but if he’s town he

MUST

clarify or revise or totally change or whatever his hypo-cop results before the end of day 3. And if Xvart’s not the cop, the real cop’s hypo needs to be legitimate, because if Xvart’s scum then we run the risk of losing the real cop tonight.

And yes, that last sentence is me saying I’m 98% sure there’s a cop in this setup. Cop, vigilante, and jailkeeper seem like a sensible combo for me. If there was no vigilante (or other non-cop town power role), I’d think it should be cop and doc. Correct me if I’m wrong, but jailer (along with roleblocker?) is supposed minimize setup swing. In one night one mafioso could be vigged and another could be investigated. So I could totally see a cop-jailer-vig-roleblocker setup, which could clear Gyro as well.

(Shrug.)

No? What about this?

If Xvart is killed, it ends this whole debate over whether Raskol and Gyro are town or not based on his half-claim.

Gyro is really town. To me, jailkeeper suggests two offensive town power roles. One's cop. Other's vig.

Really, though, Neto, they'll go for Xvart if he isn't one of them. If they don't they're, idiots. Keeping him alive and letting him out his forthcoming result is not at all worth the WIFOM of him living. So, no, I still don't think there's much good we'll get out of a no-lynch as far as information goes.

What about this?

Xvart, what?

Gyro could still be scum then. Great. But it's still definitely possible that he's a power role because of the jailkeeper.

Raskol, you're going to have to give damn good reasons for lynching today after pushing so hard for no lynch.

Or these?

And upon actually looking at Raskol's posts ... Was that a tracker claim?

That

explains the jailkeeper. Which also means I can't blindly believe Gyro's claim, though it is still entirely possible that there's another power role (and that Gyro is in fact legit).

Neto: tracker, jailkeeper, possibly vigilante. Roleblocker would be a bit much unless the mafia is really stacked.

Drop it. You fucked the town over.

[crypto]

You weren't bamboozled; you just failed miserably. It was very obvious.

[crypto]

Wow, crypto; you sure don't waste any time updating your wiki blacklist. Oh well. I guess I'll have to try and live with that.

xvart.

I'm sure you'll survive. I'm just blown away by how terrible a player you are. It transcends comprehension.

[crypto]

Stop dumping the blame on the town. You and kiku and Gyro were the closest it got to tunneling. You and kiku lost the game. End of story.

[crypto]

I liked the flavor. Beating the guts out of a dead walrus? I giggled.

Thanks for awesome modding.

Does jailkeeper block a jailed mafioso's actions or just a townie's?

[crypto]

Last time I checked I was a part of the town and I've never tried to avoid any blame.

No, your vague tunneling statement was stupid and dodgy. That was not the problem. Your constant rejection of reason was the problem.

your little tirades aren't making either Kikuchiyo or I feel bad,

No, but they're making me feel good.

so I guess if you feel empowered and vindicated by shouting and cursing

I do.

like a schoolgirl

Most schoolgirls don't curse.

If you want to say something constructive that would be cool, too.

I did. You should check day 4. Oh, and day 3. Oh, yeah, and also my post-game explanations. Constructive? Don't fucking quick-lynch when you're a townie. Read other players' posts. Don't fail to understand that blatant town tells are blatant town tells. And so on.

[crypto]

Jailkeeper blocks everything apart from Mafia Roleblocker (roleblocker resolves first in my ruleset). So if it targets the person comitting the kill it prevents the kill from happening.

Ah, okay. I like that better than the version that doesn't block kills.

[crypto]

crypto: Had you gotten your way I would have been mislynched and the game would have been over. Seriously, some of us play this game for fun. I like hammering. Was it premature? Yes, but noone listened to me when I pointed out Malpascp case, so whatever.

Reread. I was infinitely more unsure about you than I was about others. Don't go there. I like playing it for fun, too. Playing for a month only to lose because of what you did is not fun.

[crypto]

Also crypto, I don't know where you go to school but I've known school girls that curse a lot

You be quiet!

MOD IS GOD

- Faraday

[crypto]

Fast deadlines = fun. However, this was definitely one of the more active groups of players I've seen. I don't know if other players would struggle with it. I like them, though.

Your right. I didn't realize the part where I said I was convinced Gyro was scum and nothing could change my mind was so dodgy.

Oh, that's another horrible move on your part. Absolutely horrible. You're doin' great, man.

Thanks. I have to admit that sparring with you was probably the most fun part of the game for me. The reactions of both crypto and Gyro during end D3 and beginning D4 played out in my head as scrambling mafia, and it was an unfortunate series of events that I misread at the end about the Gyro vig kill on crypto and his response that really led me astray.

Yeah, me calling walrus out and being right about it when I could EASILY have pursued kikuchiyo was a total scum tell. Darn.

Oh, wait. No it wasn't. Shoot.

That's what I thought, too. Especially when he came back with the "I was drunk" comment.

You deserve a medal for WIFOMing yourself on something so obvious. Scum have no reason to do that. Hell, I doubt most could even think of it, let alone think to pull off such a muddled post without it looking contrived.

Seriously. Even then. Why would Gyro-scum say he vig-targeted me? That's nonsensical.

[crypto]

Was it premature? Yes, but noone listened to me when I pointed out Malpascp case, so whatever.

We all had our own pet theories about malpascp … and apparently we were all right.

[crypto]

Xvart, I didn't say I called all three of them, but yes, voting a dozen times is pretty good by my standards when those votes are bouncing between Neto, havingfitz, walrus, and kiku, with a final emphasis on havingfitz and walrus.

[crypto]

Also crypto, I don't know where you go to school but I've known school girls that curse a lot

You be quiet!

MOD IS GOD

- Faraday

Pwnt.

[crypto]

crypto, was this your first game or something? it sucks to invest a lot of time into a game and lose, but there are always winners and losers. This is a team game and the entire town shares the loss, including me. If I'd have been a bit more aggressive upon replacing in, I might have changed something. If you'd have played a little better, the lylo situation that led to the gyro mislynch might never happen. You don't blame the player who strikes out in the bottom of the ninth with bases loaded for losing when more runs earlier in the game would have avoided the situation altogether. Nobody in this game played bad enough to warrent a blacklist for poor play.

Er, no, this is my seventh finished game. I'm not shucking the loss. I'm not blaming the player who strikes out in the bottom of the ninth; I'm yelling at the guy in the outfield who picks up the line drive ball and then throws it into the stands. It's not that someone messed up. It's that someone completely ignored all the reasons I gave and quick-hammered on a player who was all but confirmed town. I explained why Gyro was clearly town over ... and over ... and over again. And finally kikuchiyo stopped ignoring me and instead deemed it appropriate to – gasp! – respond:

Is 1148 a joke?

I am starting to think Raskol may be spot on.

She didn't even argue against it. No reasoning whatsoever. Zip. None. And how did she follow up? By fucking hammering after

HAVINGFITZ

put Gyro at L-1.

I don't care about the loss. I care about the town having the game in the palm of its and then gift-wrapping it to obvious scum by lynching obvious town with the worst reasoning – or, hell, outright lack of reasoning – I have ever seen experienced players make on this forum.

[crypto]

Good game scum. I "breadcrumbed" power role with the "I am the Governor" statement looking to get nk'd. It worked maybe?

I took that as a legit breadcrumb when I saw it and wanted to Falco-punch my comp out the window.