Newbie 1656 : Game Over

[Nobody Special]

Votecount 1.05

Ether - 2 - OceanWind, lordj210
LoHa - 2 - goodmorning, Sakura Hana
goodmorning - 1 - coolkyledude
SilverWolf - 1 - LoHa

Not Voting: Mightymandarin, SilverWolf, Ether

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline: (expired on 2015-10-22 07:40:38)

[Nobody Special]

Searching for a replacement for coolkyledude, per his request.

[SilverWolf]

So I decided to meta GM. I have some recent experience with her and have played with her in a newbie although it's been awhile. I'm sticking with newbie IC games as those are the most relevant. I'm also sticking with 2 of each alignment as I just don't have time for more than that.

1632 (Scum)-First of all, she has the highest post count, so lurking is not going to be a scum tell for her most likely. She seems to be totally o.k. with L-1ing people early in the game which is noteable, her votes on people didn't come with a lot of reasoning attached, and a lot of her posts were short, otherwise just reading her ISO-I wouldn't of pegged her as scum from it but I didn't read the whole game front to back cuz lazy and lack of time.

1627(Scum)-same, short answers/posts, mentions maintaining her reads over multiple days is more like town her than scum her. Says she's not going to explain things a lot and doesn't. Somewhat antagonistic. Of note, she has the highest post count again.

1624(Town)-Note-this is a replace in so that might make a difference-replace in post is very detailed with fleshed out reads, aggressively scumhunts from the get go, I am already townreading her and I've barely started her ISO-LOL, yeah lot's of good reasoning and detailed posts-quite a contrast here, and yay!! some caps lock frustration which totally reminds me of the town GM games I've been in with her

I don't know if I'm doing a shit job of finding her newbie games but I had to go to 1615 to find the next town game and holy hell this game was long-again she was not the highest post count, seems a little angry but it's completely understandable given the context, lots of analysis plus lots of poking and prodding at people, some genuine looking frustration, explains herself well and overall looks very town to me.

So in this game, it's too early to say for sure, but she seems to be very involved and trying to figure things out so I'll give her a slight townlean and go from there keeping the above meta in mind.

Also, this took too long. Just sayin' I think I needed to do it since she pinged me when she first started posting but hasn't since.

[Ether]

Good to know! I'm not sure I see the pattern you do, but of course I haven't read those and my studious "kick the READ GOODMORNING can down the road you don't have to care about this yet don't worry" campaign is still going strong, sooo.

Are you feeling better? Would it help you feel more invested if I started asking questions?

This page is an easy way to search people's recent newbie games, for future reference. I still have some unread tabs lying around from that. (But if 2/2's all you want to do, that's fair, that's more than I'd sit through.)

[SilverWolf]

Since I am very apathetic this game and not sure why, I am going to re-read the game from the beginning and make observations and see if that helps me get into things:

I like coolkyledude's original questioning of GM in regards to her voting. Sakura points in out again in 39 which is a valid observation at this point in the game.

It's weird though that cool didn't vote for GM but instead placed his vote on a lurker. Sakura wisely points out the flaw in this logic.

lordj's repeating of a question that has already been asked twice shows lack of paying attention-not sure what to make of that yet, GM handles all of this well

On read through slightly bothered by GM's 57 because she seems overly concerned about what I find on meta check and how I perceive her-just noting this for now.

cool makes a good observation on the possible buddying-in my experience this is just how GM is and not scummy, doesn't look like buddying to me either

Not sure what to make of Sakura's push on GM and subsequent unvote

Again, don't get lord's worry about the L-2 on LoHa, I think Ether's vote is fine here

Cool's vote on GM is fine and makes sense from a standpoint of not understanding GM's personality/playstyle and finding it suspicious

lordj is kind of scummy to be because there's a lot of commenting on things but they are kind of superficial and don't really add much to the game or do anything to move it forward

Ether is a mild townread for trying to push discussion and drive content

LoHa is different but not in a way that looks like scum-more just a different playstyle i think

So I've re-read the thread and I'm just saying I don't have any "reads" on anyone yet. I realize all I've done so far is ask questions but I don't have any real analysis or sneaking suspicions about anyone in particular. I will check back this weekend with something.

Your best bet is to just ask questions of people and make comments/observations on the gamestate. Mightymandain is null to me right now.

Not sure that Ether's case on LoHa is super strong but for this early in the game it makes sense.

Kind of reading LoHa's aggressiveness as townish although GM's concern on him not answering questions well is valid. Still don't see the scum motivation in him behaving this way though.

Hmmmm, despite agreeing with Sakura's comments and observations, I'm not really getting a strong impression either way from her and this is something I'm going to take note of as well. Game's early so we'll see.

OK, so I hate OceanWind's intro post and I'll get to that in my next post.

i want to help you get in the game but i don't know howwww

Also I agree with goodmorning.

Is there anything I can do? Do you want to talk about anybody?

Would you like a pokemon avatar??

Sorry guys, I don't know why I am feeling apathetic. I'm trying to work through it. Hopefully, this will improve soon!!

pedit: Still not feeling good but ask away.

[SilverWolf]

VOTE: OceanWind

Here's why in regards to 181:

Greetings everyone. I've read a few games before joining and I thought it would help to start with RQS:

1. What country are you located in? How often do you normally expect to post?
2. Do you prefer playing as town or mafia? Why?

My responses:
1. USA. Probably once or twice a day.
2. I enjoy both equally as they take different skill sets.

What is the point to these questions? By itself this isn't scummy but I have seen scum come into a game with this.

Reading over the thread, the standout suspects for me are SilverWolf and Ether.

SilverWolf spends most of the early game maneuvering around GoodMorning without really attacking her.

This is false. I did vote for GM and even explained why.

Then does an easy jump onto lordj210 for "role-fishing" stating that town would

never

do it.

This is scummy. Town would never say things like this, even if thinking them. As scum, I can see a newbie doing it as a form of role fishing because things like this would be on your mind.

VOTE: lordj210

But the minute Ether points out that it could be town, there's this awkward back off:

I've seen it once from town where they outed themselves as a VT in a newbie game and asked the doc to protect them. It was due to not knowing anything about how the games were run here. But lord's post looked like role fishing to me.

Oh wait, I take that back, in a large normal that I just got out of a PR did say they thought someone else was a PR that wanted to get to night quickly.

Yeah, nvm.

UNVOTE:

So, why wouldn't she remember this before being prompted by Ether? It looks like Ether is directing SilverWolf away from bad pushes.

This is using pre-flip associations to paint two people as the scumteam on really bad and reachy reasoning using things that could easily come from town. This is something I do not like. It reeks of reaching for a scumread right off the bat.

I've looked at Ether's case on LoHa and it is full of holes. It is especially worse because it is coming from an SE.

What on Earth does being an SE have to do with anything?

Nah, the hi was for OceanWind.

I just...don't get what LoHa's trying to do. He has experience, apparently--it kind of bothered me that he was so terse about coming out with it, which is Page 2 logic but was still a part of my initial vote. (Also I already knew at that point that it wasn't very likely to be anyone else, for various reasons that mostly don't say anything about how townish they actually are.)

His 27 didn't really strike me either way. (Now that I'm typing this I keep wanting to talk about how weird it is that he was asking permission to vote goodmorning, when I don't see how he'd read her jokey reaction as a town tell if he thought she was scummy before then. And maybe that's true and maybe it isn't, but either way I know I'm saying it from a perspective of being sick of us spinning our wheels and really wanting to find somebody scummy already.)

I don't like his showing after I voted, either. People were exchanging reads by then, and he just dropped in and asked me about my return. He doesn't know me and doesn't strike me as someone who asks things just to socialize, and I don't see the point. Continuing to talk about Sakura's Page 1 vote didn't impress me either.

She claims LoHa has experience. But everyone who's posted so far has said they have experience on some forum or another. She then accuses him of hiding the experience which is tenous. Not everyone parades around their experience. She accuses him of asking permissing to vote for GoodMorning but townreads coolkyledude who did the same thing in 71. If asking permission is scummy, why did you give coolkyledude a pass when he "just out of curiosity" asks people what they thought of GoodMorning? Then she accuses him for not scumhunting. But MandarinOrange gets a pass despite having no reads at all on anyone and clearly stating that he had experience elsewhere. Then she says LoHa doesn't strike her as someone who asks things just to socialize. Why not? How do you know this if you've never played with him before? What did he post to give you that impression?

Just out of curiosity, is anyone else is getting the vibe that goodmorning is trying to buddy up to me in these posts?

I don't like the phrasing here. "Just out of curiosity." It looks like you're trying overly hard to not step on anyone's toes.

These points are all fine.

SilverWolf's vote doesn't make a whole lot of sense to me, but I like that she made it.

If the vote doesn't make sense, why do you like that she made it? It looks like you are trying to weakly distance from SilverWolf by fence-sitting.

This is bad. Again using pre-flip associatives, really reachy, nonsensical reasoning, and overall it just does not sit right with me at all. Do not like. Not one bit.

[SilverWolf]

Yeah, those last two posts were actually examples of posts that can be spoilered, oops LOL.

Thanks for the link Ether.

[Sakura Hana]

Yeah SW is pretty town. I know effort doesnt = scum but it shows that he's using said effort to actually find scum.
I don't mind the RQS as much because it's coming from a newbie, as shown by his post, however, it is true that those questions mean nothing to help figure out alignment if they don't know what the reason behind asking them is, considering he just saw them in other games, it makes sense for him to try and come with something like this to get things started.
Positive Light: He probably doesn't know what to do with the questions because newbie, rather than asking them for filler.
Negative Light: There are a bunch of other things to comment on than come in with RQS at that point in time.

However.
He did comment on other stuff, the stuff he commented in is bad yes, but do you expect Newbies to have flawless reasoning? <- Question to SilverWolf
What do you expect to gain from your RQS questions, specially when the game had already moved away from RVS? <- Question to Ocean.

And just for the sake of completion i'll answer the RQS:
1. Colombia - I'll post based on my mood and the ammount of posting in the thread (I normally slow down when ppl slow down)
2. I enjoy Town more, because I have more fun figuring out who the scum is, and i'm also pretty bad at lying.

[Nobody Special]

Moosydoosy replaces coolkyledude effective immediately.

[goodmorning]

I don't know if I'm doing a shit job of finding her newbie games but I had to go to 1615 to find the next town game

Nah, I normally play about once every 10-15 Newbie games. Those 3 were kind of a fluke for being so close together because I SE'd 1632 because Mala and I replaced into 1624 because I compulsively replace into IC slots.

seems a little angry but it's completely understandable given the context

oh my god i was so mad
and then the only person who

got

my

special snowflake

playstyle was scum

that may be why i don't play that way now, come to think of it.

my studious "kick the READ GOODMORNING can down the road you don't have to care about this yet don't worry" campaign is still going strong, sooo.

Let us continue this "I'll do it later" quest as comrades!

On read through slightly bothered by GM's 57 because she seems overly concerned about what I find on meta check and how I perceive her-just noting this for now.

Eh, more blowing my own trumpet really.

Kind of reading LoHa's aggressiveness as townish although GM's concern on him not answering questions well is valid. Still don't see the scum motivation in him behaving this way though.

Because people give up and leave you alone?

--
I kind of agree with Sakura on this Ocean thing. I still want to see his response to Silver though.

[goodmorning]

Oh, hey, a replacement. What's up?

[LoHa]

You still haven't explained why you asked a question that had already been answered.

Which one was that, a.k.a. Where?

Why did you ask Sakura for her opinion after she'd already given it?

I don't recall having done this, I asked for everyone's (including Sakura's) opinion on your response to her vote and argument. Furthermore SilverWolf is seemingly agreeing with you that I lack prowess in answering questions; I say this question has a false premise, and I am left with either answering it in an improvisational manner to uphold the illusion of both of our competence (which I won't do because it would be untruthful), or address the problem for what it is (incompetence to ask a valid question on your part), regardless of how momentum-stalling it might be perceived as.

1. Whichever country Gotham City is in. I will allocate roughly 2 x 30 minutes of reading and 30-50 minutes to compile posts each day.
2. Scum in newbie games, other than that town. Because I like posting a lot in newbie games as it gives me the feeling of helping out newbies by showing them a talkative scum player, who does the whole spectrum of manipulation from subtleties to fakeclaims. Other than that being a townie has a noble feel to it, at least the way I like to play.

VOTE: GM

SW I hope my vote wasn't too overbearing on your psyche, but I mustn't be discouraged to keep it where I think it belongs. I hope I didn't let you influence me.

[SilverWolf]

However.
He did comment on other stuff, the stuff he commented in is bad yes, but do you expect Newbies to have flawless reasoning? <- Question to SilverWolf

I don't give newbies a pass for being new. I did that in 1598, wrote off a newbie as newbtown and she turned out to be mafia who won the game by surviving to lylo. Then in 1620-the rerolled game, I went hard after a person most were calling newbtown and he turned out to be scum.

So being new is not something I use to justify bad, reachy reasoning. And that's exactly what I see in that post, bad and reachy reasoning.

Let's see how he responds to me though and take it from there.

-Also, I'm a she. Thanks!!

pedit: Your vote didn't mean anything to me one way or another until you said it was random long after the game was out of RVS. But o.k. I guess.

[Ether]

Goodmorning I am totally readable by this point if it helps. Probably. My last scum game was in 2009, so, you know.

LoHa is still the scummiest person in the game in my book, to be clear. (And his latest post, uh...I don't know if it's scummy that he suddenly flipped into thesaurus mode, but it makes his posts less accessible and I'd like him to stop.) I'm standing back right now because, hey, I wanted people

including me

to stop talking about possibly metaing each other in the future and get to the point, and I got that. My accidental unvote suits me fine.

I am not impressed with OceanWind's post, but I'm also not going to read him or anyone else on just a catchup. I really hope he doesn't stick to once or twice a day posting, though.

[MoosyDoosy]

Moosydoosy replaces coolkyledude effective immediately.

hello everyone. Will read through the thread.

[goodmorning]

Goodmorning I am totally readable by this point if it helps. Probably. My last scum game was in 2009, so, you know.

I'm going to pretend you didn't say that!

[SilverWolf]

mafBlack is sooooo much easier on the eyes than mafSilver OMG I can't believe I didn't notice this before!!

I will never go back.

Also, welcome Moosydoosy!!

[MoosyDoosy]

I am just going to stop by and say that it's hilarious you all could not understand goodmorning's posts. It's a good chance to get reads.

[SilverWolf]

I am just going to stop by and say that it's hilarious you all could not understand goodmorning's posts. It's a good chance to get reads.

GM has a way about her.

[MoosyDoosy]

Sakura, supplying a comprehensible reason to vote sticks out. As scum you'd be more careful to avoid such contrast, wouldn't you (care to wifom-dance with me)?

I don't really understand. What post is where Sakura provides a valid reason to vote someone?

[MoosyDoosy]

lordj-why are you voting no lynch and why was it a problem for you that a player was at L-2?

i said no lynch and will change that to no vote if need be, basically i just dont have anyone at that momemt that i wanted to vote for. i unvoted LoHa because she was at L-2 and from what i had seen of her i didnt see anything that would say shes skum. i started to reread the thread before work and jsut finished and still cant really say i think shes skum but cant say town so i got a neutral feeling for her.
why dont i want someone at l-2/l-1 already were only what 3 days into the game we have plenty of time to look and delve into things we dont need to lynch someone RIGHT this second.

i think with someone at l-1,l-2 they will feel extremely pressured and would act alot different trying to save themselves then they normally would.

after rereading and looking more or less just at lohas posts i feel like the case on her is basically jsut off previous off site mafia games that they may or may not have played together cant really say its a good case so im going to VOTE: ether because i feel she is just wanting to lynch someone anyone, stated the case on Loha it stuck with a couple of players if it didnt stick she woulda jsut made a case up on someone else

Interesting to note this. Especially as my reads progress.

[MoosyDoosy]

okie, I'm basically caught up except for Page 9 because I feel too lazy and like a bum. Also because I scrolled through briefly and saw long posts and wasn't in the mindset to slog through them. So just some thoughts on people:

goodmorning

- town. good morning to you. Posts freely and shares thoughts, pressures points, and dealt with pressure nicely.

SilverWolf

- town. Actively asking questions and sharing opinion freely.

Ether

- town lean. Posts freely and seems to be pursuing what she wants. Only off-putting thing was when she lay a trap for a reaction by voting for LoHa and nobody reacted to it so she had to pursue it awkwardly by herself.

Mightymandarin

- town lean primarily because he's a newbie, but be wary. I don't like how he came into the thread trumpeting that he was a newbie and I'd like to see whether he keeps pulling the newbie card or not.

And then some other notes.

LoHa

- I hope you don’t say that Sakura’s accusation on goodmorning was good. Because the whole premise on that is false and the fact that you keep generating WIFOM conversation off of it would basically mean all of your posts were BS and filler.

coolkyledude

- Misinterpreted goodmorning’s posts but didn’t seem to get the 3 or so explanations from her afterwards. Means kyle isn’t exactly reading the thread properly.

lordj210

- Awkward posts. Not to mention he literally contributed no reads to the thread except for one wishy-washy post. Seems to spend a lot of time discussing voting mechanics and nothing much else.

OceanWind

- Made one post which I disagreed with and went off. hm…

I don't know if that's everyone, but that's where I'm at right now.

@LoHa

, please answer my question.

@lordj210

, please share more reads and who you're looking to pursue.

@coolkyledude

, please share who you're looking to pursue.

@OceanWind

, I’ll go over your post again and point out the things I disagreed with.

Any questions, feel free to ask~

[Sakura Hana]

Any questions, feel free to ask~

coolkyledude - Misinterpreted goodmorning’s posts but didn’t seem to get the 3 or so explanations from her afterwards. Means kyle isn’t exactly reading the thread properly.

?
Also apparently you missed a read on me.
Amished tell?

[Sakura Hana]

Amished tell?

Actually, maybe not.
Still kinda awkward you point a read on your predecessor like that.

[MoosyDoosy]

Any questions, feel free to ask~

coolkyledude - Misinterpreted goodmorning’s posts but didn’t seem to get the 3 or so explanations from her afterwards. Means kyle isn’t exactly reading the thread properly.

?
Also apparently you missed a read on me.
Amished tell?

Oh yes! You're a solid null and didn't do anything too noteworthy that stuck out either way. This may or may not be a bad thing.