Open 734: Paris Mafia (13-player variation) - Game Over

[RockyHorror]

Seriously have you been reading any of my posts at all?

[RockyHorror]

I thought we were closer than that.

[Almost50]

Well, you said "scum" this time and ,ost players (including yourself in #167) use that to describe MAFIA and not 3P (Mimes are basically Jesters as you yourself had pointed out), so I had to ask.

[Kmd4390]

Vote Count

DoubtingThomas - 3 - Fink, Thor665, Almost50
Almost50 - 2 - Eragon, innocentvillager
Sesq - 2 - RockyHorror, lane0168
lane0168- 1 - Sesq
FA_Q2 - 1 - GuiltyLion
Eragon - 1 - FA_Q2

Not Voting - DoubtingThomas, Lady Angel, UnrealSeal

With 13 alive, it takes 7 to lynch

Deadline is August 29 at 6:45PM EST

[Thor665]

huh??

Can't really clarify unless you hone in on where I'm losing you.

^^ that is a "fairly clear case even if I don't agree to it"?? are we reading the same thing thor

Okay, let's babystep it (because my answer is 'yes, it is fairly clear')
Where is his vote on you being lost exactly? Are you claiming you have no idea at all what his issue is?

what I mean by not pushing is basically just empty voting and proclaiming im scum but (1) not caring about other people voting/not voting me and (2) not explaining/refusing to explain to others why I'm scum. If he does either one of those I'd call it a push but if he's doing neither then imo it updates negatively for him

I'll agree he's doing 1.
He's not doing 2 unless I've missed something - I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet, and might suggest that there is a noted lack of interest in people this game to ask questions prior to hurling suspicion, yeah?

I don't know where you're getting that from. I specifically said that I was okay with a lane vote because of his lack of activity, and even mentioned that I saw him potentially buddying me with his sesq vote. I just think my vote is better positioned as is at the moment.

I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?

Do you have an issue with my vote being on sesq instead of lane right now?

Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?

you have a good reputation for scum which obviously makes me slightly more skeptical when everyone townreads you. but everyone else also knows that, but they're still townreading you anyway, and I assume they know your meta better

I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?

that one post you wrote that I felt weird about felt oddly manipulative but im not sure i have more than that gutshot. Maybe you're coaching Almost or something although i hate positing these low probability scenarios.

What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?

[Sesq]

also in hindsight i realize nobody in this game has played with me before

Jeez! Boy should I be glad I still have a working memory despite the fact it's been used for over half a century!!

Let me remind you of:

(1) Being scums together in Surreptitious.
(2) We were both town in Tit for Tat.
(3) You were scum and I was town in Kill All Townies.

Not to mention I modded you in Diffusion of Power

At least tell me you remember the name!

i dont remember names i remember avatars, and yours has changed

you also seem to have adopted a certain typing style that i dont recall from those past endeavours

[innocentvillager]

What did I try to coach Almost on outside of advising him not to rage tunnel you?
And wouldn't that suggest I'm as much potentially your partner as I am his?

shh thor don't give it away

also what. and yeah there was a weird buddy vibe to it

[innocentvillager]

I've actually not played with a fair chunk of this player base.
I would like to think I also have a rep as decent town, no?

what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now

let's just drop the whole me not understanding Almost's vote on me and you making me feel dumb for not getting it I don't think this convo is helping anyone find scum

[innocentvillager]

(usually a wagon on me)

VOTE: sesq

okay fine rocky happy?

[Thor665]

also what. and yeah there was a weird buddy vibe to it

Well, feel free to have my admission I did exactly that for your case needs.

what i mean is im less inclined to TR you from everyone else TRing you, like you're pretty null for me rn ill keep you around for now

Very hipster

Do you dislike the DT or Lane wagons particularly? Or do you like the Sesq one for some reason I'm missing?

[FA_Q2]

I am here and I will do some catch up soon. I am sick as a dog today though and can barely function.

[RockyHorror]

Well, you said "scum" this time and ,ost players (including yourself in #167) use that to describe MAFIA and not 3P (Mimes are basically Jesters as you yourself had pointed out), so I had to ask.

Eh, fair point I guess. I was referring to scum in the general sense, just to be clear.

I'll note that I just got dinged by Rocky for not describing a case when literally no one had asked me to yet.

I never said that I dinged you. I've been townreading you from the beginning, as I said. My question was originally only meant to dialogue a bit and see why you were still voting DT when it appeared your read on lane was stronger, and it appears that the conversation has spiraled a bit from there so I'm going to try to clear this all up for you.

I was being fairly clear I thought - I quoted you describing your primary Sesq suspicion and made a direct compare/contrast of it to Lane's play and asked why one was a primary suspect and the other was kind of a "meh" read by your own words.
It's great that you suspect him, I think you *should* suspect him. What I want to know is why I can't get your vote on him when the case is basically identical to your other case - and the extent of your answer is "my current vote is better positioned" which is nonsense because the best you've argued for that is "pressure to get content" and, frankly, Lane could do with that just as much as Sesq could, so again - what's the point in not moving if asked?

Well, you haven't asked yet. You asked if I would vote lane or DT over sesq, and I said that I would. I then followed up by clarifying why I'm currently voting for sesq, but that didn't mean I was unwilling to vote for lane. All it meant was that at the time of that post I had a stronger read on sesq.

Do you have an issue with my vote being on sesq instead of lane right now?

Clearly I do, I've expressed a case on Lane, have called Lane one of my prime scumreads, and have suggested that the case on Sesq could be applied to Lane (or DT) whole hog.
Do you have an issue that locks you to Sesq so hard that can actually be described?

Again, nothing is "locking me" to sesq. I had her above lane in my scumreads because she had a total of 6 game posts at the time of this post.

Spoiler: every sesq post prior to my 183

VOTE: lane0168

this is not about omgus. this is about principles

you don't like good music??

the only good music is techno, which does not feature lyrics. Cornered

big brain: we need to start wagons in rvs to push the game along
small brain: its rvs its supposed to be random

>sesq is good scumm

aww thanks bad thing im not good town

wrt doubting thomas: just because someone makes a joke post does not mean they want to be lynched. maybe they just want to post music lyrics. nobody is that stupidly obvious with their moves... right? i dont know.,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,, my Bets are on Thaey are just shit Posting

in general there's a problem where people assume people are so much more stupider than they are. nobody is that stupid .... except for me ;P

idk maybe its just me.... i dont think people are inherently logical! maybe im projecting too much again...(×_×)

dt isnt scum. hes just not thinking very hard

not changing my vote because its real this time

because there is a wide gap between not thinking and being actively scummy

then again;;;;

i have a problem where i just assume everyone is town. and i never feel my votes

Don't see any questions/comment people have on my new sets of posts that I made after the first 3 meaningless song lyrics

really

Good.

Now tell us what you think and ask some questions please

. If the game doesn't get going I'm going to be totally withdrawn

i don't like this attitude but the fact that you're vocalizing it makes it less suspicious so im torn on that

Also, you missed the bolded and highlighted, so revisit the subject if you will. How about a read list?

"do a thing"
"i dont want to do that thing"
"why didnt you do the thing???????"

mime

no idea why i kept my vote on lane. this is why i should keep a notes document. dont really see any reason to move it though and no other scum

@Sesq @Rocky

why is almost mime not goon

IOW tell me why is goon!A50 significantly less plausible than mime!A50

like i don't think i can believe tells confidently distinguishing between mime and goon. I honestly think those reads are either delusional, heavily exaggerated or scum but I haven't much experience with third party games so prove me wrong i guess?

the sophistry feels intentional instead of unintentional derived from a knowingly faulty premise

it doesnt feel like theres necessarily any presupposition behind it as much as it is just a really dumb thing someone would do to look "scummy" but also is not overblown enough that people would know it was mime

Can you really blame me for wanting to keep a vote on this slot? Lane had at least given the illusion of engaging with the game and trying. Given that sesq specifically said wagons force her to generate content, I can't say that I'm unhappy with the decision.

Look... FMPOV this is a tvt back and forth, Thor. Unless you're townreading sesq (at which point I would really need to know why), there shouldn't be an issue with me pressuring her. We still have over 4 days to deadline - I should be on and fairly active for at least 3 of those days. *Just to clarify again - I don't disagree with your lane read and I'm not against his vote/lynch, but Sesq is a top wagon right now, and I'm okay keeping my vote here.*

[Sesq]

(usually a wagon on me)

VOTE: sesq

okay fine rocky happy?

ok, this is epic

this game is kind of funny now because i set myself up with the expectation of producing content because, i have a wagon now right? but idk...,,,,, its not like people seem to have many reasons other than low content,.....

its usually because i do something very clearly scummy instead of lazy !

w/r/t most of The Discourse i find myself disengaged from the minutia on a base level because its very much like,,,, "well you did... then i... weel its... uhh...."

maybe if i use my special detective magnifying glass i can find some revealing information about someone....! ill try to keep my eye open.

[RockyHorror]

Do you have any reads that can be backed by reasoning?

[Fink]

To people who have played with Almost50 before, especially Thor,
Are posts like this, particularly the tone of them pretty standard coming from him? Or is this more confrontational than you'd expect?

@Fink: Mimes aim to get LYNCHED. If they could accomplish that on D1 they don't need to worry about the Vig. "Act scummy --> Get lynched" is what a noob Mime would think. I do not expect a NOOB to go about the consequences beyond that point. Planning for multiple moves hardly makes someone a NOOB.

Mafia do NOT want to get lynched. A noob Mafioso would NOT try to act scummy in the first place. If they do (in order to avoid being lynched) then they are NOT a noob either. NOOB NOOB NOOB. A Newbie who has not yet developed the sense to plan ahead for multiple steps and will only go for the next move is what I'm talking about.

[Almost50]

@Fink: Mate, I do have a wiki page with 42 games listed. There are many not on the list (I don't list games I replace in, games I get wacked on N1 in, games that I haven't been myself (i.e. not active enough).. etc.). Feel free to stop by my wiki and/or do a search on my other games.

Current iteration: Sesq & lane for Mime, IV & DT for Scum. (I might as well add X & Y for Vig & Watcher, respectively )

^^ Practice makes perfect. If I list enough pairings I'd sure have something to brag about post-game and say: I was right!

@Rocky: In light of the above; I do indeed have a problem with your vote on Sesq, but I might be overly paranoid.

Explanation: Most of you seem to be playing this game/setup in the traditional scum hunting fashion. My problem is you would simply vote someone you feel scummy, but you won't think much as to WHY they are being scummy. Is it "intentional"? Are they actively trying to avoid the lynch or are they actually trying to bait votes unto themselves? THIS is why I keep flip flopping actually. I see someone who looks scummy to me, and I think to myself: "What if they

want

to look scummy?". It could also be a play style thing too (many a player think that of mine), and I could go on listing more of the "mess" that goes through my mind.

[RockyHorror]

Almost, you realize that what you're accusing me of neglecting (what if someone

wants

to look scummy) is the reason why I haven't expressed a willingness/desire to vote for you?

[Almost50]

Almost, you realize that what you're accusing me of neglecting (what if someone

wants

to look scummy) is the reason why I haven't expressed a willingness/desire to vote for you?

I do, and I'm happy it's the case. I simply would very much rather be NK'd than lynched.

In a recently ended game I replaced in at the start of D2 and it didn't take me much to attract the NK on N2,

despite the fact I was a claimed VT

. BOTH the Mafia AND the SK targeted me for the kill that night. Feel free to ISO me in that game, see how it went, and how Raskolnikov and Ausuka (both TPRs) treated me, and you just might understand, but if you still don't then you will after this game is over

[Almost50]

Also check my play in the last game with Eragon (#43 on my wiki) and see if you would have SR/TR my play there at the start if D1, on the middle of it, and at the end of it. THEN you can read what happened on D2. That is if you really want to figure something about me.

[RockyHorror]

@Mod, can I please request a prod on Lady Angel and Guilty Lion?

I'll take a look at those links today or tomorrow, Almost.

[Kmd4390]

Lady Angel has requested replacement

Preview edit:GuiltyLion will be prodded

[Thor665]

Look... FMPOV this is a tvt back and forth, Thor. Unless you're townreading sesq (at which point I would really need to know why), there shouldn't be an issue with me pressuring her. We still have over 4 days to deadline - I should be on and fairly active for at least 3 of those days. *Just to clarify again - I don't disagree with your lane read and I'm not against his vote/lynch, but Sesq is a top wagon right now, and I'm okay keeping my vote here.*

Considering I would like to have us already have someone at L-1 at this stage, and considering that I don't think pressure announced as pressure = pressure.
Yeah, I'm not thrilled with your current vote.

To people who have played with Almost50 before, especially Thor,
Are posts like this, particularly the tone of them pretty standard coming from him? Or is this more confrontational than you'd expect?

I would be worried if Almost wasn't being confrontational.

[GuiltyLion]

It's not a pretty progression of thought. It reads like he found something he thinks he could paint as "wrong" and attacked it rather than finding something he thinks is scummy.
Now, yes, he may just be sloppy town, I am debating that - but to have him as town anything at this stage boggles my mind.

eh, I guess your interpretation is fair but I just got the sense reading his posts that he was genuinely confused by what you had said and was trying to figure it out. I don't think he was intentionally misrepping especially given how he backed off like you said

[GuiltyLion]

also I don't really care about the Mime thing unless we lynch one, generally I feel like trying to distinguish between Mime/Mafia play is gonna be a barrel of WIFOM and not worth it

wow i like lion this game

<3

[GuiltyLion]

Do you think I'm clogging up the thread about this? Do you want my opinion on something else in particular?

no, was just trying to get your reply to gauge what your read on Almost was and if you thought anything about the discussion was alignment indicative. felt like it could be something scum would argue about to give them something to do without actually making reads out of it