Warrior Cats Mafia [Game Over!]

[fireisredsir]

what about your play around t3 do you think is something you wouldn't do as scum

[fireisredsir]

idk it just looks like shit

didn't t3 enter the game doing the bare minimum? probably would've done *something* to make myself look like not garbage

good answer, i think

[fireisredsir]

idk it just looks like shit

didn't t3 enter the game doing the bare minimum? probably would've done *something* to make myself look like not garbage

I genuinely don't think you would, tbh.

i think what he did here is well in the range of possibilities of what he would do as scum

but i think as scum he would have done it intentionally being very aware of why that should make him town

and so i think when asked about it here, he would be a bit more likely as scum to have like, a ready made retort for why its impossible to be scum

but his answer was kinda like a "yea idk play better" which is not really at all similar vibes to how he's responded to similar questions before as scum

[fireisredsir]

i for one have not learned from my mistakes of thinking that me asking datisi why he can't be scum here is ever something i can correctly sort him based on

its fun to try tho

[fireisredsir]

i'm gonna do a funny

VOTE: flow trap

(still support the titus wagon, still wanna see her potentially run up, but if we're talking counterwagons, this one might be interesting)

i kinda thought that slot was like hard town now actually would you like to expand

[fireisredsir]

at this point, "why aren't you scum this game, datisi?" is a meme and not even i remember which answers are supposed to be townie or scummy

well it changes every time bc you have to take past answers into account

[fireisredsir]

i just thought catboi's end of day reactions to stuff felt very real and very town idk maybe thats a bad reason

its true tho that the way he handled the kitty and t3 situation was weird but i dunno its like... if kitty is town then sitting in that place where he's not really hard pushing kitty but he's still supporting that wagon over t3 seems like the obvious (and also not really that useful) place for scum to be?

i kinda would expect him to be more decisive and choose a direction as scum

like the fact that he was kinda debating with me about how kitty should be scum and that my meta point was bad and then i went and researched to see and came back thinking he might actually be right and then he just like... ignores it and does nothing with that? and starts arguing with alisae instead?

i dunno ig you could say he was just hoping i would push kitty for him but that just seems like such a bad look

[fireisredsir]

they are actually kinda different it was throwing me off earlier

[fireisredsir]

can you link me where this was? i have ideas how this could be scum, but i should prob reread before saying

also, what reactions of his did you like?

2148 (plus quote chain in there), 2152, 2153, 2154, and then i respond with 2184

and then he just kinda ignores that and focuses on other stuff mostly. and the next time i see him talk about kitty is seeing a reason he might be town in 2628

for reactions, experiencing it live at least basically his whole iso starting from 2788. i disagreed with him on charloux but the way he responded to it felt real to me, and just like the building annoyance with bear but in a kind of passive aggressive way just vibes as real to me (i kinda get the feeling he figured something out around this point)

and the reaction to enchant but idk if i really should be considering that but it is kinda part of it for me so

like obv he can fake/use emotion as scum, ive read games where he does, but imo its like more showy, and usually it has a clear purpose in advancing scum wincon. here i don't really get that feeling at all

[fireisredsir]

also tbh it worries me a little bit, you mostly talking to/about him as if he's town yesterday (2133, 2211) except for a couple points of vague stressiness (2460, 2655), but not directly pushing him at all

and then once the slot is someone who is like objectively much more pushable, you start

like if most of the stuff that concerns you came later + the t3 flip influenced your read then ok sure fair game ig but it still gives me the hmms

[fireisredsir]

ok thats p reasonable, ig its true ive had similar feelings before

[fireisredsir]

okay uhh, i knew that catboi made some sorta "i'm not sure about my scumread on kitty anymore, am i dumb for that" post, and that was about half an hour after 2628

which like. i think this is +town for catboi. but also, he was kind of egging me on into voting alisae in the hood... and my paranoid brain is telling me that alisae kind of figured out that catboi/t3 is a thing, and that is a problem, so he decided to shut alisae out by running them up and/or voting them out

does that seem plausible?

hmm maybe, ill reread that bit

[fireisredsir]

idk i still think alisae is a lot scummier in that exchange

and the way he notices something that he doesn't like from charloux and immediately pivots there despite the alisae wagon growing doesn't really seem like he has an agenda of trying to hardshove alisae out?

[fireisredsir]

around roughly when did he start egging you on to vote alisae in hood? before or after 2621?

[fireisredsir]

like idk i just don't really think alisae is making very good points. it feels more to me like they just decided something and decided to push on it without actual reasoning behind that

and catboi voting them feels like a natural progression from feeling like, both frustrated with their approach to the game and not really listening to others + thinking their gameplay made more sense as like positional scumplay than natural solving, which is something that i also felt and agreed with

i just don't really get "you caught me and now i must destroy you" vibes from his push, he seems like, more exasperated

[fireisredsir]

around roughly when did he start egging you on to vote alisae in hood? before or after 2621?

his first post about feeling wary of alisae came about 15 minutes after that^^ post

it can't yet be called "egging it on", but i think it serves the purpose for the conversation

ok cause i was gonna say you may have a point and it could be a little questionable if it came like well before that, but i think that matches up

[fireisredsir]

i for one do not enjoy the gimmick

[fireisredsir]

i think he probably isn't, unfortunately

[fireisredsir]

Thunderclan:
- nero cain (replaced Charloux) (Leader)
- Marashu (dead town)
- KittyTacky
- PenguinPower
- SCRRRDBEAR

Windclan:
- enchant (replaced Shiro)
- mathblade (replaced Alisae)
- toogeloo (replaced NorwegianboyEE)
- T3 (dead scum)
- boy next door (replaced Val89)
- Titus (Joined mid-day 1)

X-clan:
- Dannflor (Leader)
- Datisi
- flow trap (replaced Catboi)
- Something_Smart
-

Mastina

Riverclan:
-

Frozen Angel

(Leader)
- Bell
- fireisredsir
- MistyX
- Cephrir

edited to update, hopefully correctly

[fireisredsir]

i think datisi voting flow trap was productive bc then we had a good discussion about the slot that probably wouldn't have happened otherwise

and also flow trap started talking more

its not always about how big a wagon gets, its about prompting discussion, which it did

[fireisredsir]

why is this being discussed publicly again

[fireisredsir]

Is there a reason this wagon has ceased to exist? I'm still in favor of it.
VOTE: Kitty

i think he got a lot townier and i think a lot of people feel the same

[fireisredsir]

the biggest point for me was just how he kept consistently posting and not just in a way that was defensive or responsive, but also continuing to be proactive and advancing his own scumreads and trying to push for his own solve of things

its pretty far beyond what he's shown to be capable of as scum in the past when under pressure

i think others found his indignation about certain things (like when someone said his reads were bad) to be towny as well

[fireisredsir]

depends on the type of bear i think

i don't think this one is a grizzly

[fireisredsir]

i don't really understand townreading titus here

what are you seeing

[fireisredsir]

think scum are kind of just sitting back letting the loud people be loudly wrong

if by loud people you mean loud bear then i think thats def possible

but idk i agree that titus isn't likely to accomplish much by playing this way as scum, but... i don't really think her play makes sense as town either? like for me prior to today's play there are things that she's done that feel way more likely to come from her as scum

and it seems like regardless of alignment she doesn't really have the energy or will to play the game much

but when she is here she isn't really explaining anything or doing anything to support her legacy which is what i would expect her to be doing as town. like she apparently believes in her solve but if she flips town here i don't think anyone is going to pay attention to her solve bc she never really justified it

esp with math replacing into the same hood that she's in id expect her as town to like at least be talking with him and engaging with the game a little bit, if only at least to make sure someone will listen to her after death

i dunno i think similar points about "what does this player have to gain by playing like this as scum" could have applied to t3

what makes this different

[fireisredsir]

like for me prior to today's play there are things that she's done that feel way more likely to come from her as scum

what's up with this? this feels more interesting to discuss

i dunno i think similar points about "what does this player have to gain by playing like this as scum" could have applied to t3

what makes this different

the simple answer is "t3 was trying titus is not"

stuff in 3181 mostly

and idk i don't really see these as very different levels of trying

[fireisredsir]

if i were to consider gamestate reads it would be one of a few possible worlds

1) titus is scum, and her team is struggling/not very present, and she tried to lead but didn't really have the energy to take over the whole game. the other 3 scum in like, the lower energy/lower influence posters. i think that if most or all of the like, town leader-y people are in fact town, and are currently correct, then that can be kinda demotivating for a lower influence scumteam

2) titus is scum, and is willing to be die bc she has at least 1 or 2 teammates who are set up well to endgame and/or will look good off her flip. not really sure who this would be, but it seems possible. maybe dann or datisi ig.

3) titus is town, and scum are letting town push her. probably likely if titus is town. scum more likely to be in the quiet or reluctant enablers, or if penguin is town too, might just not care at all and let town fight it out

4) titus is town and scum are hardshoving her out. ehhh don't really buy this one, but it would probably mean scum in bear and/or penguin, with maybe others encouraging along the way, and maybe one or two off doing their own thing.

ranking these in order of which i think is most likely id prob go with 1 > 3 > 2 > 4

i feel like i do actually see 1 happen fairly frequently and every time someone is like "but wouldn't they be trying more if they were scum" while the scum just doesn't really have a way out and has kinda given up/is on antispew

[fireisredsir]

specifically her 2037 into 2039 into 2040 is v scummy imo, that's basically the first place she even mentions a suspicion on t3 and she immediately pivots it into a partner read and a vote on norwee. she does vote t3 after that, but still she never really is giving reasons for why t3 is scum, just asking people to join and pushing for partners

wrt this

why do you think scum titus would go this -> norwee vote -> t3 vote

instead of just going straight to the t3 vote

or just staying on norwee

MISTYX TRYING TO BAIT FIRE INTO TALKING ABOUT IRRELEVANT SHIT SO EVERYONE FORGETS HOW SCUMMY TITUS IS

its literally a question about titus and why i think she's scummy how is that irrelevant

[fireisredsir]

specifically her 2037 into 2039 into 2040 is v scummy imo, that's basically the first place she even mentions a suspicion on t3 and she immediately pivots it into a partner read and a vote on norwee. she does vote t3 after that, but still she never really is giving reasons for why t3 is scum, just asking people to join and pushing for partners

wrt this

why do you think scum titus would go this -> norwee vote -> t3 vote

instead of just going straight to the t3 vote

or just staying on norwee

i mean 2 people voted t3 immediately after she voted norwee and then she hopped on right after that

that doesn't feel like a genuine push on someone that she's suspicious of, that feels like trying for an alternate wagon and then feeling self conscious about needing to be on the scum wagon once that one starts building before it gets too big

i think uninformed titus doesn't care as much about switching there if she genuinely thinks they're both scum, but scum titus will be worried about optics

[fireisredsir]

and immediately after the t3 wagon has built up pretty high, she jumps on one of the people who voted t3, penguin, and has a super manufactured-looking argument with him and pivots into calling him 100% scum

while still voting t3 and not the person that she thinks is scum

which again doesn't feel like uninformed town titus genuinely chasing her reads. nowhere does she come anywhere close to saying t3 is 100% scum, or even really have him as a scumread

but she doesn't want to move her vote off him and onto the person she is now extremely confident is scum?

that's informed

[fireisredsir]

like find me where in titus' iso she comes to the realization that t3 is scum

it isn't there

bc she doesn't ever have that genuine building thought process towards sorting the slot. she just flips a switch at a certain point and decides he's scum and starts hunting for preflip reads

[fireisredsir]

like find me where in titus' iso she comes to the realization that t3 is scum

it isn't there

bc she doesn't ever have that genuine building thought process towards sorting the slot. she just flips a switch at a certain point and decides he's scum and starts hunting for preflip reads

YES FIRE DON'T WORRY, THE TOWNBLOCK UNANIMOUSLY AGREES TITUS IS OBVSCUM. YOU SHOULD BE THE ONE ASKING MISTYX QUESTIONS, NOT THE OTHER WAY AROUND.

i asked her why she townread titus which is why we are having this conversation and your interruptions are not helpful thanks

[fireisredsir]

i agree that you believe you are being pro-town but i don't find your approach to be useful to engage with

when i am feeling especially patient i am willing to try but that is not always the case

[fireisredsir]

seeing how misty responds to the points that i brought up about titus serves multiple purposes

1) seeing how she responds to the points that i made helps me sort her

2) if misty is town, hopefully we are able to come to more of an agreement on the subject by discussing it, and maybe solve the game better

3) its actually playing the game and advancing conversation in a way that is hopefully pleasant and useful for all involved (and easy for others to follow) instead of just shutting people down and spamming when they try to talk

that is how i prefer to play the game. im not worried about if i end up posting more of my thoughts than misty does. that isn't a bad thing. that isn't going to hurt town. i don't need your help here.

[fireisredsir]

i would bet that less than half of the game is reading your posts at this point

very good town play

[fireisredsir]

But who cares? Who actually looks at wagons? Who cares that a lot of the active town who pushed T3 and hard town read me got subbed out? Who cares that most of the town early voting me have beef with me?

Literally, this game was a stop until the subs.

can you play this game instead of complaining about it not being a different game

I ALREADY FUCKING SOLVED IT. WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT?

can you explain your thought process for what led you to think that t3 was scum, confidently enough to start teamsolving off it?

[fireisredsir]

it shouldn't be hard to explain what your thought process was

if you think you did previously, it wasn't clear at all

[fireisredsir]

also what exactly are you saying the penguin lie was? he got the vote count wrong and then p quickly corrected himself, that doesn't have anything to do with his t3 trajectory

[fireisredsir]

actually i didn't really fully absorb this at the time, but knowing now that t3 is scum and rereading that section again, penguin is right it does make no sense that titus ignored bell completely considering he was the one who started pushing hard for mastina and campaigning for her lim as soon as the t3 wagon started up

[fireisredsir]

hm bell really did show up with like 4 or 5 posts of towniness when necessary and then drop way off again

[fireisredsir]

idc about lore bc whoever said they have fake flavour claims is prob right but hammer imo

[fireisredsir]

bc she didn't have an answer about her t3 progression

[fireisredsir]

oh wait dann wanted to case misty ig we van wait for that

[fireisredsir]

maybe titud forgot which claim was her real one and which was a provided faje flavour

[fireisredsir]

I think that’s a very fencesitting statement for how objective the situation is. Even after you “saw where this was going”

Fences are comfortable.

Not sure what type of fences you sit on, but that has not been my experience.

i think bell could be scum as well

[fireisredsir]

I think that’s a very fencesitting statement for how objective the situation is. Even after you “saw where this was going”

Fences are comfortable.

Not sure what type of fences you sit on, but that has not been my experience.

i think bell could be scum as well

ceph ik you said you have 0 reason to think datusi scum but do you have any reason to think datisi scum

[fireisredsir]

sorry for the quoting those were accidental

[fireisredsir]

titus showed up and was annoyed and didn't really address any concerns imo

[fireisredsir]

dann wants to case misty idk why

[fireisredsir]

oh tirus claimed universal backup only for the clan she joined and also lore wise she is sol

[fireisredsir]

shut up bear

[fireisredsir]

hey dat what are you thinking rn

i'm thinking bear is quite literally the shittiest town player i've ever seen, and i'm not intending to fight this very much because my flip will speak for myself

do y'all even want me to claim, or...?

you don't think its even possible for him to be scum?

[fireisredsir]

REGARDLESS OF WHETHER I AM KILLED TO PREVENT IT OR ALLOWED TO EXECUTE IT, THE DARK ONES WILL FACE SOME LOSS DUE TO MY PROMOTION TONIGHT.

what did you mean by this

[fireisredsir]

Kill bear with the speed of a thousand suns tomorrow.

what do you think scum!bear's plan here is

[fireisredsir]

why would he switch from datisi to math tho

if his goal is to get a miselim then he has a better chance at getting it by just sticking with the original guilty

[fireisredsir]

KID, PLEASE. I CLAIMED COP WITH A GUILTY. WHAT ARE YOU EVEN PRETENDING TO BE CONFUSED ABOUT.

FIRE, DO YOU THINK THE WAY MATH PLAYED IT IMPLIES HE KNEW MY GUILTY ON DATISI WAS FAKE?

possibly yea

id maybe want to look and see what math's usual response to claims looks like

[fireisredsir]

for me val slot and that slot are the two who came to mind as town if math is maf

and kitty but he's dead now

[fireisredsir]

i am down to turn my brain off and vote mathblade if bear is planning on actually sticking with this claim

either it's right or i have a reason to vote bear out

win win

same tbh

i think math is kinda scummy regardless of claim so i don't really mind

[fireisredsir]

who do you think is scum with bear

[fireisredsir]

well moreso alisae imo, but i agree with whoever said that your willingness to get convinced to move onto titus was kinda scummy

[fireisredsir]

for me val slot and that slot are the two who came to mind as town if math is maf

and kitty but he's dead now

IMO WHY IS TOWN TOOGLEOO AWKWARDLY SHADING MY SLOT AND TRYING TO VOTE OUTSIDE OF MATHBLADE BECAUSE "THEY DON'T WANT TO VOTE OUT ANY MORE WINDCLAN."

WINDCLAN HAS LOST THE SAME AMOUNT OF MEMBERS AS ANY OTHER CLAN IIRC

THAT REMINDS ME OF A GAME I WAS READING OVER RECENTLY WHERE DEEP SCUM AUSUKA SUGGESTED WE NOT VOTE OUT MENALQUE YET BECAUSE "WE HAVE ENOUGH TIME, CAN'T WE JUST LIKE, TAKE A HOLIDAY OR SOMETHING?"

BOTH BULLSHIT EXCUSES IN THE MID GAME NOT TO EXECUTE A SCUM BUDDY WHO IS ON THE HOOK

i was talking about flow trap/catboi, not toog

idk toog could be scum, seems a little openwolfy but ig some people do that. mastina would be happy lol

[fireisredsir]

math only directly engaging about bear is probably antispew

[fireisredsir]

i said engaging about bear, not engaging with bear

i asked you who is scum with bear

[fireisredsir]

i was mostly thinking about how ali tried to tie t3 and catboi together before t3 flipped

[fireisredsir]

And you want to know what I see?
What I see is you making the extra effort to try to push a person I think is probably going to flip town in response to big T3 wagon.
I also see you trying to discredit anyone who claims to have a strong read on T3.

In fact, me writing this out made me ISO you ant ctrl + f T3 and I see you're first read on him lmfao im ded
guy gets his own category
says needs to give player more time
Heck honestly I wouldn't be surprised to see T3 flip wolf and you be aligned with him given your very first read on T3. That's the kind of read I give my wolf buddies who need time to become players but then never eventually play. Put him in wolf pool, fos him, never vote him. It's a fucking tale as old as time.

I wouldn't even say my read on T3 is strong just PoE since it doesn't make any sense for anyone else to be a wolf in wind clan unless it's like Val or something and I'm not buying that.

I also don't get this thing where I have to apparently "read your posts" to have a fos on you.
Like you can say whatever the fuck you want, I'm not going to find you if you're scum because of the things you say.
I am going to find you based on your actions and reads because that's way more worthwhile than the nitty gritty small details of your posts.

it wasn't as strong as a tie from them as i remembered, but they did push the narrative a bit

[fireisredsir]

i have a hard time seeing ali val as s/s

[fireisredsir]

isn't that team guess also 4 scum in wind lmao

technically possible maybe but

[fireisredsir]

i have a hard time seeing ali val as s/s

MY GUESS IS THAT THIS WAS BY DESIGN. TAKE A LOOK AT BOY NEXT DOOR'S ISO.

why's your read of "town bc they aren't even pretending to do anything" apply to flow trap but not boy next door

[fireisredsir]

Oh and if I could hear Titus she’d be saying “C’mon Bear is such obv scum? Why are they elimming Math?!?!” (Facepalm emoji)

if every second counts you sure are wasting a lot of them

[fireisredsir]

I THINK THE OBVIOUS SCUM NARRATIVE IS TO IMPLY THAT THE LEAK COMES FROM THUNDERCLAN, BUT I DISAGREE WITH THAT, BECAUSE I CLAIMED COP IN MY HOOD. IF THE LEAK CAME FROM THUNDERCLAN THEN I SUSPECT I WOULD DIE RATHER THAN KITTY.

when did you claim in hood?

[fireisredsir]

VOTE: cephrir

[fireisredsir]

bear i really don't think that val and alisae make sense as aligned

like reading over alisae last night i v much get the vibes that they were trying to powerwolf and hard push scum agenda. their reaction to val's suspicion on them feels way more like an attempt to bury a townie to me, it was just so overblown and trying to drive them into the ground

[fireisredsir]

hi misty, idk the lore really so i have no guesses

[fireisredsir]

i assume this is another reaction test bc no i did not

[fireisredsir]

i assume this is another reaction test bc no i did not

well that throws that possibility out of the window then

it's not a reaction test

i don't set up this level of dramatics for a lie

hmm

i don't really get why you would do this as scum tho

[fireisredsir]

HEY FIRE CAN YOU TRY AND GIVE US A BETTER PICTURE OF WHERE YOUR HEAD IS AT RIGHT NOW?

my head is at ik in this situation it is always correct to lim me first and its not particularly fun to play the game rn

i still don't really think misty is scum so im still kinda confused about that but i dunno maybe scum have some role that can disguise themselves as someone else or something

y'all can sort that out later ig

[fireisredsir]

I CAN'T SAY THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND YOU ANY. CAN YOU POST A READS LIST?

eh

i don't think i have any new thoughts really

[fireisredsir]

LEARN NOT TO BURN!

I CAN'T SAY THAT HELPS ME UNDERSTAND YOU ANY. CAN YOU POST A READS LIST?

eh

i don't think i have any new thoughts really

IF YOU DON'T POST A READS LIST WITH SOME QUICK THOUGHTS THEN I WILL HAMMER YOU.

my thoughts are in my iso and i don't think there's anything wrong with hammering me here

my role is just informed and i already shared my info

[fireisredsir]

idk it just looks like shit

didn't t3 enter the game doing the bare minimum? probably would've done *something* to make myself look like not garbage

I genuinely don't think you would, tbh.

i think what he did here is well in the range of possibilities of what he would do as scum

but i think as scum he would have done it intentionally being very aware of why that should make him town

and so i think when asked about it here, he would be a bit more likely as scum to have like, a ready made retort for why its impossible to be scum

but his answer was kinda like a "yea idk play better" which is not really at all similar vibes to how he's responded to similar questions before as scum

HEY FIRE CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT HERE?

i was thinking about how datisi's answer to my question of if he is scum felt like he hadn't really been thinking about why he should be seen as not scum here

which to me lightly indicated that he was more likely to be town

i don't really feel strongly that im right on that interpretation but its what I felt

[fireisredsir]

i still don't really think misty is scum

fire I would think this should be a more important point to argue right now given the circumstances

maybe, i don't feel strongly enough about it to like demand that people listen to me on it tho

i just think the way she played today reads extremely like she had a real result that she was excited about. it just vibes as very town and i don't know what she would be trying to gain as scum by doing this

she's also just felt like she's been p consistently solving and trying to sort people in a way that lately has felt towny to me

[fireisredsir]

idk it just looks like shit

didn't t3 enter the game doing the bare minimum? probably would've done *something* to make myself look like not garbage

I genuinely don't think you would, tbh.

i think what he did here is well in the range of possibilities of what he would do as scum

but i think as scum he would have done it intentionally being very aware of why that should make him town

and so i think when asked about it here, he would be a bit more likely as scum to have like, a ready made retort for why its impossible to be scum

but his answer was kinda like a "yea idk play better" which is not really at all similar vibes to how he's responded to similar questions before as scum

HEY FIRE CAN YOU PLEASE CLARIFY WHAT YOU WERE THINKING ABOUT HERE?

i was thinking about how datisi's answer to my question of if he is scum felt like he hadn't really been thinking about why he should be seen as not scum here

which to me lightly indicated that he was more likely to be town

i don't really feel strongly that im right on that interpretation but its what I felt

HOW HEAVILY DO YOU WEIGHT THIS COMPARED TO MATHBLADE SLIPPING DATISI TOWN?

both are relatively minor imo

math did vote datisi right away he just ended up unvoting when misty did her thing

[fireisredsir]

oh yea thats another thing that i don't think happens if misty is scum, the jump on bear after the claim of checking datisi