Pokemon Battles 2 - Attack on Giratina [GAME OVER]

[SquirtleSquad]

Specifically in this direction I feel like its actually pretty easy.

Like I can get that it would be more difficult to make that observation if they were saying sheep was scum in this game since they would be by necessity lying if they were not buddies, but specifically I don't understand why you think a scum player cant make the real observation "sheep was scum in another game I had with him and he is playing different here so he is likely to be town here."

Like every part of that sentence could be equally true for scum!metens as it is for town!metens.

[SquirtleSquad]

We may never know who blue. was.

[SquirtleSquad]

willing to barter my vote for an enticing offer

Vote Kitty and you have my vote on D2

Does this apply to me as well?

[SquirtleSquad]

I'll vote for kitty to get your vote tomorrow sure. Kitty is in my PoE.

I don't expect you to actually honor this agreement but then we can have a pleasant fight about it tomorrow when you reneg.

[SquirtleSquad]

Unless you mean "you get my vote" as in you will vote me tomorrow.

That seems like a bum deal.

[SquirtleSquad]

Vote with me and you receive whole nothing

bold offer.

[SquirtleSquad]

Bummer dude.

[SquirtleSquad]

anyone want to pile up on Not_Mafia and beat their pokemon to death???????

I'm always generically down to policy NM

[SquirtleSquad]

I never promised content so i am perfectly fine

evergreen enchant post.

[SquirtleSquad]

that better be ur first post in the scum pt this time meuh

dw it was I checked.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: SquirtleSquad
FLASHWAGON

[SquirtleSquad]

Blue still scumzo.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: SquirtleSquad
FLASHWAGON

WHO ARE YOU????

hi im meuh

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm marcistar.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Blue

[SquirtleSquad]

I feel like I just got owned somehow.

[SquirtleSquad]

eh fuck it VOTE: kitty

build it bigger b'y

[SquirtleSquad]

1. Squirtles main played in team mafia
2. Their name rhymes with "splea"

hmmmm
Lady Lambdadelta

can't be. squirtle hasn't yelled at me once in this game yet

I did tell shirou to ask you about your wizard investment strategies.

[SquirtleSquad]

well there's three of us so that seems like some good wagon buildin'

[SquirtleSquad]

you're just trying to get me to scum read you but it won't work cuz you dumbtelled and I believe it was real.

[SquirtleSquad]

+scum points for spelling squirtle wrong tho

[SquirtleSquad]

i'm down for kitty but i think a blue flip yields more info

and saves ali a replacement

I would much rather blue still.

[SquirtleSquad]

some elite six member you are.

[SquirtleSquad]

it was never real fb. it's always a trick with you.

[SquirtleSquad]

I would much rather blue still.

then why'd you hop off so soon

cuz wagons go brrr and for all the smoke no one seems interested in actually voting there

I just want a flip tbh. 100 pages is more than enough content for this day.

[SquirtleSquad]

FYI all thats e-3

[SquirtleSquad]

am i the only one who doesn't care if this game has a day 1 page 200.

This is alisae game. We can break records here for replacements / Day 1 length/ etcc

I'm gunna replace this alt with another alt and then I won't alt slip and everything will be great.

[SquirtleSquad]

is the password firebutt2

[SquirtleSquad]

if anyone is dondozo they should target me.

[SquirtleSquad]

Still down to switch over to blue.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: blue

[SquirtleSquad]

I both think blue is scummier than kitty AND think a blue elim is way more info.

[SquirtleSquad]

its 7. losing 4 from kitty wagon I think so thats at 6.

[SquirtleSquad]

My last tattoo really only hurt when they were doing the shading.

[SquirtleSquad]

What do you want to do with the day whemestar?

Not compromise on a wagon

Who is compromising?

[SquirtleSquad]

If he's on your PoE I'm giving you something in exchange of nothing for me since you're already willing to vote there.

This is a deal for someone who's not planning on voting Kitty

in that case i'm not down to wagon kitty

VOTE: kitty

I don't want a NM wagon, I categorically oppose NM wagon D1 every game because it's impossible to read NM and so it's essentially random. Random lims hurt town.

This is objectively false.

Removing someone who is actively hindering the town is good.

N_Ms alignment is irrelevant.

[SquirtleSquad]

The sudden swing of people going there when I have been trying to get a wagon there all game and it happening right when you were reaching max pressure is definitely interesting, yes, but doesnt make me feel better about your slot fwiw.

[SquirtleSquad]

I guess I haven't really been trying to get a wagon going there all game tbh.

I've kinda just had blue on my backburner all game.

I have been OPEN to a wagon there all game but that's not quite the same thing.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don’t get the Blue wagon.
The fact that i townread them all game and everyone else says the slot is obvscum makes me wonder if this is some kind of prank you’re playing on me.
Or we really do just fundamentally disagree this hard.

did you read my series of posts where I explained why I scum read them? 1824-1832

[SquirtleSquad]

Am I the only one who is reading this black-pb interaction as being potentially scum theatre?

Still think black is town by play but it feels idk contrived a little bit from both of them.

[SquirtleSquad]

I like the blue wagon and I would like you to do the work you need to do to evaluate it instead of avoiding it and jumping other places.

[SquirtleSquad]

I feel like that kind of slip accurately finds scum at approximately the rate of the number of scum in the player list over the number of players in the player list.

[SquirtleSquad]

Because people just say words.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am sure if I cared I could go through my last few games and find town saying "you're wrong about me" to scum reads pretty much constantly.

[SquirtleSquad]

Because I'm not convinced you're scum and I've aid that multiple times

Now this is a weird post because not 30m ago you assured me that you would ride the pink ball wagon off a cliff in order to assure me that you and pb can't be s-s.

But this is exactly the kind of waffling I would expect if the interaction WAS s-s

[SquirtleSquad]

I think black is town but the interaction still feels off to me.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am sure if I cared I could go through my last few games and find town saying "you're wrong about me" to scum reads pretty much constantly.

Once is good enough. I'd like to see it.

Play wise I feel much better about Black than Blue.

It would be funny though if the scumteam was Black and Blue.

Ok I'll go find one.

[SquirtleSquad]

Turns out this is kind of hard to find because people just don't seem to say "you're wrong about me" period and I can't figure out how to make the MS search function actually search for the words in order instead of "this post contains the words wrong about and me somewhere in the text" which is maddening and I am giving up on this project.

I maintain the general position that people say stuff all the time that wouldnt match with their "perspective" if they are town which is why I find such things to be mostly useless.

People just say stuff. I have yet to see scum caught with perspective slips at a rate higher than random chance.

[SquirtleSquad]

What is your actual argument for black being scum?

Can you lay it out for me all in one place?

[SquirtleSquad]

I suspect black would say that I'm biased in the other direction in terms of my propensity to scum read her, tbh.

[SquirtleSquad]

This wanting to end day early talk sucks and is zzz

Agreed and reminds me of scum!Ali in Demon Slayer

I’m willing to go for Blue if that means ending this day, Kitty’s still a better alternative (his role sounds like a support!scum role). Cakez I’m biased because of his read on me that makes me think he’s town, but I’m willing to vote there too

Are these statements not contradictory?

[SquirtleSquad]

What is your actual argument for black being scum?

Can you lay it out for me all in one place?

actually don't answer the one I just posted please answer this one first. I'd like it laid out and in one place and not part of a back and forth that makes me sad to read.

[SquirtleSquad]

I’m not doing that sorry. Im not trying to get Black limmed now, I don’t have the time to do it

you're...voting her...my dude?

[SquirtleSquad]

this push stinks.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think your claim that you're not trying to get her limmed is just clearly false though. You offered to trade your lim for hers like two pages ago.

That's rhetoric, obviously. But the point of the rhetoric is to get black limmed.

[SquirtleSquad]

I wasn't asking for a strong case I was asking for a list of reasons and honestly I'm more interested in it in order to read you than to read her.

[SquirtleSquad]

What? Explain how anything I've said here is out of context?

[SquirtleSquad]

How the fuck was it out of context? What?

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't think we're desperately in need of a metens iso review.

[SquirtleSquad]

n the iso work feels fake

I don't think I've disagreed with a single thing said in this game more.

[SquirtleSquad]

In particular I think the way Rathe went about dissecting the wagon is weird. Or, rather, I think it looks kinda fake.

We have a post where he looks at our votes, but the votes aren't really important here. Almost all of the justification for my read and my vote came in other posts which don't get discussed or even I think looked at here? And then we happen to get a fuller look into sheeps position on the wagon and that is the only one we get any in depth content on because (shocker) its the person that rathe is saying is scummy in this whole exchange.

It looks like rathe went into this exercise with the idea that he could push sheep and then just made posts that came to that conclusion.

[SquirtleSquad]

n the iso work feels fake

I don't think I've disagreed with a single thing said in this game more.

Please go more in depth on this. Which things in particular feel "fake?"

Which conclusions does sheep come to that feel contrived?

Which thoughts that got him there don't feel like genuine thoughts he had.

I'm gunna need you to be real specific here.

[SquirtleSquad]

So we're just ignoring me or?

me alt slipping for the second time this game for fun and for profit.

[SquirtleSquad]

In particular I think the way Rathe went about dissecting the wagon is weird

i know that not all scum are on the blue wagon so it is most likely more town than scum it could be one or two i would say i went through the voters isos n tried to come up with the most likely based on posts

Ok but thats not what you did.

You listed the votes. Then you specifically went through sheep and no one else, coming to the tenuous conclusion that he was scum and then were like eh I'll get to it later.

[SquirtleSquad]

*I'll get to it later for the rest.

[SquirtleSquad]

Ok.


Setting that aside for a bit I would really like an answer to 2808

[SquirtleSquad]

Get fucked ali.

Page top is mine.

[SquirtleSquad]

In particular I think the way Rathe went about dissecting the wagon is weird. Or, rather, I think it looks kinda fake.

We have a post where he looks at our votes, but the votes aren't really important here. Almost all of the justification for my read and my vote came in other posts which don't get discussed or even I think looked at here? And then we happen to get a fuller look into sheeps position on the wagon and that is the only one we get any in depth content on because (shocker) its the person that rathe is saying is scummy in this whole exchange.

It looks like rathe went into this exercise with the idea that he could push sheep and then just made posts that came to that conclusion.

i answered but i will say it again i went into the blue voters sheep was the first one i did the iso for well no blue was the first iso i did actually cuz i wanted to know y the slot was getting voted sheep was first n then i did everyone else

I don't know what happened here? Did you deliberately change the number in the post? that's post 2807 not 2808.

Wait did like a post get deleted?

This is post 2808?

n the iso work feels fake

I don't think I've disagreed with a single thing said in this game more.

Please go more in depth on this. Which things in particular feel "fake?"

Which conclusions does sheep come to that feel contrived?

Which thoughts that got him there don't feel like genuine thoughts he had.

I'm gunna need you to be real specific here.

@Mod did you delete a post? It really fucks up the post ordering if you do that.

[SquirtleSquad]

Feels like the mod must have deleted a post and jacked post numbers for the entire rest of the game cooooool.

[SquirtleSquad]

Anyway that is what I want you to respond to.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think the sheep iso's are one of the townier things that has happened in this game.

[SquirtleSquad]

yes its a bug that happens when someone deletes posts.

[SquirtleSquad]

to be honest i think i need to talk to someone who townreads the slot so i can get a better view of the game

You are still ignoring me.

[SquirtleSquad]

n the iso work feels fake

I don't think I've disagreed with a single thing said in this game more.

Please go more in depth on this. Which things in particular feel "fake?"

Which conclusions does sheep come to that feel contrived?

Which thoughts that got him there don't feel like genuine thoughts he had.

I'm gunna need you to be real specific here.

I'll keep quoting it until you actually answer it

[SquirtleSquad]

Bro I've asked you 3 times now. There's no way you don't know.

[SquirtleSquad]

My only conclusion is that rathe doesn't have a reason that those isos and thought processes are fake. I highly doubt he actually read all of them and I think he expected to get away with calling them fake without being called on what exactly that means and now he's scrambling and stalling.

[SquirtleSquad]

n the iso work feels fake

I don't think I've disagreed with a single thing said in this game more.

Please go more in depth on this. Which things in particular feel "fake?"

Which conclusions does sheep come to that feel contrived?

Which thoughts that got him there don't feel like genuine thoughts he had.

I'm gunna need you to be real specific here.

I'll keep quoting it until you actually answer it

oh i did answer it just isnt in depth like u want n probably wont be like i said i feel doing the isos the way they were done was done to look busy or to look like something town would do cuz i dont think the rest of the iso is congruent with that work

That is not in any way responsive to my question.

[SquirtleSquad]

this is like...literally the worst attempt to answer a question I have ever experienced.

me again, fuckin a.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'll give you a hint:

I am not interested in your answer to better read sheep and I'm not looking for you to convince me.

I am looking for specifics about what in those posts felt fake to you in order to determine if YOU are fake.

fypov if i am town who on wagon do u think is mafia

I don't play mafia like this.

[SquirtleSquad]

UNVOTE:

Rathe reads town.

Please tell me why I strongly disagree.

[SquirtleSquad]

I would be interested in that. I feel like he feels like flailing scum who did some stuff to try to look like he was solving under pressure but none of that stuff actually adds up or makes any sense, which makes me think it is not genuine.

[SquirtleSquad]

I specifically also kinda disagree about the part where he's not flipping scum because I think picking one target to be like "this is the scum on my wagon" and then being like "these five names are null or scum" is definitely also a form of anti spew.

[SquirtleSquad]

*not scum who is realistically flipping today that should read.

[SquirtleSquad]

these r all my thoughts regarding the slot sheep n ur questions 2851 2853 2867 2872 2873 2876 there is nothing else to say about it

none of that makes me think you read sheeps isos, digested the thoughts that were in them, and came away thinking any of those thoughts were fake.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't play mafia like this.

k fine who is bussing me then

I don't play mafia like this.

I find scum. There's no reason to engage in fun games of lets make believe.

[SquirtleSquad]

Preflipping is stupid and not better than random most of the time.

[SquirtleSquad]

you were clear. At the risk of oversimplifying, it sounds like you're saying "too scummy to be scum" with more nuance.

I'm not a huge fan of that sort of read.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't see it from a town perspective either though, which is kind of the problem I have with reads like that.

I think frequently people someone doing something bad and ineffectual and are like "well that doesn't accomplish anything for scum so they wouldn't do it" without the complimentary thought process of "well that doesn't accomplish anything for town either."

And like I think both town and scum do things that don't make much sense all the time.

I know we got into a similar argument in TM but I really do think this!

[SquirtleSquad]

Sigh.

double sigh. CAN'T FUCKING STOP ALT SLIPPING. :/

[SquirtleSquad]

i think squirtle spelling out everything they were looking for in an answer and rathe just completely ignoring that is a town trait on rathe's part

What is town about it scum do this all the time.

[SquirtleSquad]

Are we going to make it to page 200, skygazer

at this point fuck it just go all the way to deadline and hit 400.

why are you focused on such piddly small numbers

[SquirtleSquad]

Was gunna make a post about sheeps last post and how klick kept poking me about my reads being "generalities" in TM but I just went back and reviewed the posts from that game and I still don't really understand what his point was.

My thought was just that all of these reads that sheep posted seem to fit within the category of "a generality" to me, i.e. they seem to be making general claims about how scum do or do not act probabilistically and then asserting that because the players are behaving in this way they are town.

Which is what I thought Klick was disagreeing with me about using that sort of approach in TM but like I said I'm actually just not super sure what his point was there after rereading it.

[SquirtleSquad]

I find it wolfy that klick has made like, 3 or 4 too scummy to be scum reads this game

that feels a bit tmi/whiteknighty or whatever

too scummy to be scum is like by far the main reasoning he's used in this game

This is a Klick tell.

its good that we can be certain that they are in fact klick.

[SquirtleSquad]

fb do you think rathe is town? I thought blue was pretty clearly scum and I think its possible that is clouding my judgement.

You're the big tone read-y guy.

I fn give up

[SquirtleSquad]

I am aggressively over this day.

[SquirtleSquad]

Still think blue/rathe are extremely likely to flip red. Don't have much else to say rn.

[SquirtleSquad]

I see no reason to compromise.

[SquirtleSquad]

And I think discussing other options rn makes me less likely to get what I want so I'm not really inclined to do it.

[SquirtleSquad]

yeah dude, I can read. Just like you had to scroll past my post in the preview screen and chose to act like you didnt read it so you could get that dig in.

[SquirtleSquad]

If other wagons become necessary I will evaluate them. I see no reason for me to be involved in theory crafting them myself.

[SquirtleSquad]

You're actively asking me to take an action that makes it less likely for a wagon that I want to happen.

Please find ways to read me that would be less likely to help scum.

[SquirtleSquad]

I think having me as null is like pretty literally nonsense.

[SquirtleSquad]

Also I think you're pretty sketchy this game so I don't really feel like working with you.

[SquirtleSquad]

You've already admitted that it wasn't a simple question. Nothing in a mafia game is just a simple question.

[SquirtleSquad]

If you want to compromise you could get your vote back on rathe and we can lim scum together instead of doing whatever this is.

[SquirtleSquad]

This is for my own mental health, so please have some decency and avoid forcing me to interact with you. Maybe I’ll feel better later and I can contribute more, I don’t know, that’s how I feel right now.

If I get limmed for this so be it, I’m just tired.

please feel better friend.

[SquirtleSquad]

Ngl the last few pages

I have a vibe town read on black and squirtle
i agree with squirtle with pink
pink feels off

~R

can you please get an avatar of some kind.

[SquirtleSquad]

Felt a lot more like someone who was trying to get into the game by doing their own little RVS rather than an actual lack of care who we elimmed personally. I kinda town read that energy.

There's been a pretty complete lack of follow up though.

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Pink Ball

I feel pretty shitty about this. On the one hand I am very interested in a pb wagon. On the other hand I don't want to like...not respect my friends wishes to let him take a little break idk?

Maybe I'm being weak.

me being shitty again

[SquirtleSquad]

And I don't vibe with that argument fb. If a friend really needs a mental health break (or anyone really) I'm inclined to give it to them idk.

I understand this can be a tactic and whatever but like you know?

[SquirtleSquad]

No one ever scum reads me correctly. Sometimes they just get lucky.

[SquirtleSquad]

Perhaps (sorry fb) I just suck at reading StD but I don't get the vibes being off.

[SquirtleSquad]

Black how do you feel like your positioning around the rathe wagon looks to outside observers?

dslf;msdlkfjpisdn;flsdngvklsdjf;lmsdk;nglfsdnksndfl;gfdngl;dgnl;sdf ;ksdnb l;x nvl;sdm'gsdmb'lfdmg['dbv

[SquirtleSquad]

patchwork was actually trending upwards, yet this Meuh doesn't vibe as town from what I've seen.

Have we played together before?

No. I've vaguely seen you before (not intimately), and this doesn't feel like the town-Meuh I saw, yet tbh this isn't meta-related at all. Your posts just give scum vibes so far.

Can you explain this more concretely? I just don't see it.

you're worse at switching accounts than i am

I feel like I might as well just give up at this point.

[SquirtleSquad]

Meuh do you have a scum game where you replaced in?

[SquirtleSquad]

I will once again note I am always willing to policy lim N_M at literally any moment in any game.

[SquirtleSquad]

If I can't be best best player, i wanna be best worst

will this be the tagline of your biography?

[SquirtleSquad]

I would like to understand your hard townread on Shea

meeeeeee too.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm surprised that you feel that way about titus, klick.

There have been points of this game where she has approached feeling that way for me but her complete lack of activity because of being super busy makes it kind of hard for me to figure out if there's actually fiery intense titus here or mailing it in titus.

I still think it could be either.

[SquirtleSquad]

hm.

[SquirtleSquad]

I guess what I could be picking up on is like...lack of mech to drive her in quite the same way. Like this game has mech to parse but that games talk was so mech dominant

(this is not a complaint please don't everyone start talking about mech here I will scream)

[SquirtleSquad]

So anyway it's 133 page and it's still day 1

How long will it last because i kinda want to fight things and etc

You're preaching to the choir my friend. We should have limmed raithe like 30 pages ago.

[SquirtleSquad]

Who the fuck would fake a dayvig?

Like I mean who the fuck would actually do that?

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm so fucking checked out of this day but I can't wait to be nightkilled and lose to raithe scum in like 4 days.

[SquirtleSquad]

I TR Shea but tbf I always TR Shea

The only thing that alarms me is that it seems like he's doing the same thing he did in TM where the longer the game went on, the less activity he had and his solving seemed to get worse from a quality and quantity standpoint

I don't really trust this meta read and I thought about asking Shea if he does this as town but maybe I should just go look at his old town games

Have you considered that this days sucks ass and has for a while now?

[SquirtleSquad]

I also disagree with the claim I'm not solving, I could point to examples but don't really feel the need.

the biggest thing that happened for me in terms of motivation was alt slipping which made this game way less fun than it was before I did that and I havent been try harding as much.

[SquirtleSquad]

I just want to clarify I never said you weren't solving. And yeah I guess I can understand that explanation

I also don't think its even remotely close to correct to suggest my "activity went down over time" in TM except in the sense that the game itself slowed down so there was less content to respond to.

I ended that game with the highest post count by like 100 posts.

I think I had the highest post count in the game on each of the last few days except for maybe pink ball,

[SquirtleSquad]

I just post a lot. It's what I do as either alignment.

[SquirtleSquad]

3555 feels performative

Oh really? No shit dude. Wow.

[SquirtleSquad]

Town are performative all the time. You definitely should know that.

[SquirtleSquad]

Town are performative all the time. You definitely should know that.

Wrong type of performative. Was already explained if you’d just read thread

I stopped doing anything but skimming like 40 pages ago.

[SquirtleSquad]

im not interested in black vs flavor. should i be?

raithe.

[SquirtleSquad]

my offer is if you vote him I'll consider not bubblebeaming u.

[SquirtleSquad]

Would it help if I started pushing you?

[SquirtleSquad]

Would it help if I started pushing you?

but then i would know its not real and i wouldn't even think u doing it is alignment indicative.

maybe u should try tho.

I mean you have done fuck all this game.

You havent even pretended you wanted to!

[SquirtleSquad]

I think I'd rather vote pink ball over anyone else that has more than 1 vote besides rathe.

[SquirtleSquad]

Its funny how everyone kept being like rathe is town because the wagon is stagnant and there's no counter wagons popping up and then now none of those same people notice that counterfactually now rathe has a new counter wagon popping up every 15 seconds.

[SquirtleSquad]

I dont think either of those things are relevant to determining rathes alignment, but maybe someone out there does.

[SquirtleSquad]

FB how about you stop hiding behind a “gut read” on me and actually do something

ohh wait do u scumread me now

No, I want you to do something with your vote

Pink, your wagon is a good vote. Full stop.

Even as town you gotta see that.

You don’t have to be happy about it, but like, come on.

I don't believe in perspective slips but if I did holy hell is this a perspective slip.

[SquirtleSquad]

The vibes in this game are heinous right now tbh.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't think cakez was ever in as much danger as to prompt a hero jump into the thread by FL to save him.

Even leaving aside the preflip stuff going on here cakez is like the third highest wagon?

[SquirtleSquad]

yo pb maybe you need to like...take 30m to reset?

[SquirtleSquad]

Granted I only have experience with PB in Demon Slayer(I think?).

Not used to their aggressive, and their push on FL seems so contrived.

And I don't fully trust FL, but I will give them a little bit of a longer leash.

#vibez

Remember how in demon slayer i advised never to push Pinkball.
You are seeing why.

Its unhealthy for gamestate but he is also a scumread of mine. So i am to blame for all this. Kind of think i should get some scum points for this.

If he flips red though that clears you because I don't think in a million years you'd bus PB as your teammate on day 1. Are you sure you want that?

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: Not_Mafia
just to make shea prophecy true

Is this a trick? You must know the only thing that would truly tempt me off my rathe wagon would be policy limming NM.

[SquirtleSquad]

Still kinda think pb is scum.

booooo

[SquirtleSquad]

It’s also poor because Pink Ball and Doctor Drew both know that I get post heavy and I pounce to get myself back into games.

I said I was giving you time to do your thing my man.

Watch out or I’ll pounce on ya

At least buy me a drink first

Pre Edit: I was afraid of that

This is like the third time you've used this one you need new material

[SquirtleSquad]

VOTE: pink ball

VOTE:
Pink ball

[SquirtleSquad]

At this point I would just like to be done with this hell. Unless we go back to rathe and you fuckers actually kill him this time my votes parked right here until deadline.

[SquirtleSquad]

Also hey LLD.

I'm Shea. This will become extremely obvious if you read any of my iso because I am fucking incapable of not alt slipping every 5 seconds.

Sorry you replaced into this slot instead of *gestures vaguely at any of the others*

[SquirtleSquad]

why are you suggesting magical girl and off of what basis?

[SquirtleSquad]

im sure she would just see u alt slip in another page or two even if she didn't read back.

this is extremely true and fuck you for saying it.

[SquirtleSquad]

If I had a dayvig right now I would dayvig myself.

[SquirtleSquad]

What a fucking page top.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do not understand why people are not only getting off LLD but voting her proposed target with no justification other than "first 20 pages"

I think even LLD would agree that her entrance is not some bleeding townie thing.

This swap over en masse is bizarre to me and makes me feel like I'm right about that slot.

[SquirtleSquad]

Like we're going off on a glorified lurker lim which gives us roughly no information based on the suggestion of the replacement of the slot we were wagoning on the first 20 pages of the game? Really? After 160 fucking pages? Fucking WHAT?

[SquirtleSquad]

Rathe is STILL fucking scum and has done literally nothing since y'all stopped helping me pressure them.

PB slot STILL likely scum.

MG is gif who frequently just does fuck all in the early game.

Have you all fucking lost your minds?

[SquirtleSquad]

LLD if you are town help me kill Rathe, but this MG wagon is ass sauce.

[SquirtleSquad]

It is extremely weird that klick has now declared that my scum range is wide and he should be wary of me like 3 times this game without specifying any actual reasons to be suspect of me but feels pretty comfortable after like 10 posts of things LLD could fake IN HER SLEEP as scum just simply "LLD is town."

It's fucking LLD. She replaced fucking pink ball.

Those are two top 10 scum players on the site and yet I keep getting thrown shade for no reason because of my "wide scum range" and they get thrown easy town reads.

What the actual elephant.

[SquirtleSquad]

I haven't seen anything that makes me think you're town.

I'll steal a question from earlier:

Who are the 5 most likely players to flip scum right now?

[SquirtleSquad]

And more importantly why

[SquirtleSquad]

FL appears to just be parroting me.

And @black why did you then switch to her target? Like I get you say this day needs to end but there were plenty of options that lead to the day ending that don't involve hopping on a wagon from someone whose entrance you didnt like who replaced a slot you have mixed feelings about?

That doesn't make any sense? Why not just keep wagoning them if they're a top wagon and you don't like the entrance???

Am I wrong about you?

[SquirtleSquad]

You have put a lot of shade towards the PB slot this game but you appear to be looking for any excuse to not be voting there when it could actually lead to their lim?

[SquirtleSquad]

This is the second time I've noticed this this game where you say you have some negative feelings about a slot and then you have the opportunity to actually help lim that slot and instead you just go off in a random lurker direction. You did it with rathe too.

[SquirtleSquad]

On a more broad level, I believe I have a better read on the differences between both PB and LLD as different alignments than I have on you. I think there are ways that PB and LLD interact that are different as town and scum than can be identified, and I don't currently have that for you.

This is interesting, what are they?

[SquirtleSquad]

wow couldn't have fucked that quote up more if I tried.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'd like to know what you think is townie about LLDs entrance because I don't think there is anything there that LLD can't easily fake and more to the point I kind of think "put in small amount of effort, start a random wagon in another direction." is exactly what scum LLD WOULD do in this spot. It's what I would do.

[SquirtleSquad]

FL appears to just be parroting me.

And @black why did you then switch to her target? Like I get you say this day needs to end but there were plenty of options that lead to the day ending that don't involve hopping on a wagon from someone whose entrance you didnt like who replaced a slot you have mixed feelings about?

That doesn't make any sense? Why not just keep wagoning them if they're a top wagon and you don't like the entrance???

Am I wrong about you?

I said I

didn't

mind LLD's entrance. And I was starting to feel better about the PB slot before he replaced out

You have put a lot of shade towards the PB slot this game but you appear to be looking for any excuse to not be voting there when it could actually lead to their lim?

I can't help that this is what you see. I've never been convinced about Pink regardless of how much shade I've thrown at him

Missing one simple word in my read making me look like an idiot since 2006.

[SquirtleSquad]

That actually makes me feel better though. I was really concerned with how you were posturing around the wagon in a world where you didnt like LLDs entrance.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'll respect that but I want to be able to find PB-LLD as town and its kind of hard for me to do that if you don't share the reasons you're seeing.

I see scum there right now and if there's reasons I'm wrong I'd like to be able to evaluate them.

[SquirtleSquad]

LLD if you are town help me kill Rathe, but this MG wagon is ass sauce.

Sell me on it, because I looked at that dude and the perpetual "fuck you I wont; do what you tell me" energy even BEFORE the whole no claim thing which could be a gambit felt town.

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

I would the entire exchange with me and blue. (rathes predecessor) here

but if you don't here is my other post I think is important to read

Ah, okay, that's good, was worried you were on full tilt. Would like to discuss your view of the game when you're feeling up for it and have a better grasp of things. I was kind of paranoid of you because you townread me when I was getting some heat, and I'm wary of pockets in a situation like that, but I'm willing to trust you now and want to work together.

noting that this post is doing exactly what it says it is wary of in exactly the situation it says it is wary of it.

Yeah, I'm trying to pocket him because I want to work with him. I'm being pretty upfront about what I'm doing. In this game, you have to choose to trust people if you want to win, I'm opting to trust him, if he wants to say no he's free to do so.

What is your problem with me, exactly? I feel like I can't breathe without you throwing shade in my direction.

I think you're scum. I thought that should be obvious.

Because...?

I don't like the directions you go in, I think the way you played around my slot has many times been extremely opportunistic. I think you tend to chime in during situations where I think it shifts thread momentum in a way I don't like. I think you've played to discredit or prop up slots at times where, if I were scum, I would also be inclined to do so.

I think there isn't appetite to get you limmed right now and I don't feel super confident in knowing exactly what you were trying to accomplish with the aforementioned slots until I get some flips, and to preempt the question I'm not going to go pull quotes for you or anything, though I think I've called out a bunch in real time. (the shade you are referring to)

But I am cataloguing the things I see that I don't like as I go along.

I don't think I've ever really expressed suspicion of you so I don't know where you get the impression I was being "opportunistic". I expressed displeasure with how you were interacting with the game but it wasn't a read on your alignment. (I don't really want to re-open old wounds here but felt it necessary to clarify. I would appreciate if we could play amicably even if you continue to believe I'm scum).


Thanks though, I appreciate the answer. It clarifies a lot for me - really.

I think you were testing the waters of a scum read multiple times and never got there because of thread politics.

The way you interacted with my slots at multiple points felt as if you were scum reading me but the fact that you never got there but also left me off your list of people you wouldn't vote for is something that has pinged me a lot. Basically you've directed a lot of negative attention towards my slot without actually committing to trying to push me.

You say you were trying to stop antagonism but I continue to reject that framing. Here is the post you claimed was antagonistic.

I responded to his saying nope to my firebringer town read with what I thought was pretty good reasoning.

Even if he didn't agree with that, I was attempting to start a dialogue, I would expect a town player to be interested in using that hook to try to sort me, or at least to have some sort of interaction which was readable.

He responded by ignoring it completely and interaction with the fluff post directly above it to continue fluff posting. All the things he's said seem either contrived or actively unhelpful.

It's just simply not. You chose to say I was not fun at parties and a buzz kill because of this post. Which is simply just a normal mafia post.

The antagonism debate, like it or not, is also a big part of my read on you because I thought and still think you were being completely unreasonable as was pointed out by multiple other players in the game at the time.

So since I don't really believe I was actually being antagonistic, I look for motivation for why you want to paint me that way and I get to the debate about "5 scum reads" and I see how you used what you were projecting my emotions to be as a way to minimize my thread impact and I think the conclusion draws itself.

Basically I think the way blue. played this game was agenda driven and I think the way that he interacted in the thread was trying to make certain things happen and didn't feel like scum hunting to me. It felt like he was much more interested in tearing down other players suspicions and interrupting others scum hunting in a way that effected that game state.

I don't think rathe has done anything at all to indicate to me that he's scum hunting. All his reads look borderline made up to me. I am completely baffled as to why people are town reading the entrance and the follow up content. I've done the "I'm just gunna not give you anything" thing as scum myself so I think the claim that its somehow townie is silly.

[SquirtleSquad]

*I would suggest reading the entire exchange

is what that should say.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'd like to know what you think is townie about LLDs entrance because I don't think there is anything there that LLD can't easily fake and more to the point I kind of think "put in small amount of effort, start a random wagon in another direction." is exactly what scum LLD WOULD do in this spot. It's what I would do.

Right. I fully admit there's nothing I've done so far outside my range but I'm a fucking sociopath whose range is the whole entire deck.

My goal entering this was to just chill, lay back, get some reading done and see if I can't influence the game later. I then entered the thread to "let's kill LLD she's here to save a scum slot" and saw the wagon PB left me and I was like, "ah".

So my new goal became survival. Try to prove myself town and live to a point where I could be of use, while also looking to help game state health.

Picked a player who looked bad in first 20 pages and went for them, happy to die if it means the game state health improves.

In the end, Shea, you earlier said it was me because Klick (a good scumplayer) is reading me town when I (a better scumplayer) could be faking it in my sleep.

I don't know what Klick purports to see, but I do know that argument is bad, or at least comes from frustration.

Work with me, sell me on shit, find me town or don't but don't base my read off whether some other player who I don't actually think can read me has misplaced confidence in my alignment, even when they ARE right.

I'm not scum reading you because of anything you did or because of klick.

I'm scum reading you because of Pink Ball. You just haven't done anything that changes my mind about pink ball yet, which I think you can admit is fair.

I just posted where you can look if you want to see why I have been scum reading blue./rathe.

[SquirtleSquad]

It felt like he was much more interested in tearing down other players suspicions and interrupting others scum hunting in a way that effected that game state.

I agree but what does scum!Blue gain from this though?

I think it should be pretty obvious what scum can gain from tearing down the thread momentum which is what leads to finding scum

1) No one is able to get traction on anyone if town can't work together so you get days like this that go on forever and everyone stops actually scum hunting because they're so demoralized and we end up limming a lurker who gives us very little information instead of a slot that actually has high scum equity.

2) We don't know anything so its hard to say what exactly blue would be trying to accomplish with those specific slots until we either flip blue or we flip the slots themselves but I think it should be very obvious that scum has an incentive to push thread momentum away from their partners and towards the people they want to miselim. Disrupting scum hunting and answering questions for others can be a tool to do that.

And just to be clear I'm not talking about explicit defense of slots or attacks. Thats surface level shit. Mafia is primarily a game about direction thread control and thread momentum. Controlling the thread and controlling the momentum is how scum get what they want, and there's lots of ways you can effect thread momentum without actually explicitly town reading or scum reading someone. I think blue was playing for thread control a LOT and while townies definitely play for thread control too sometimes, its usually when they have a target they think is scum or a town read they actually want to defend and it comes paired with scum hunting. I got none of those latter things from blue

[SquirtleSquad]

Also maybe we should just consider a few people for limming to hyper focus us all on those select few. No more arguments about anyone else or vanity wagons.

I am proposing the Firebringer Trademark - Elim Pool Raffle.
Each player will select one person not including themselves to remove from the voting pool. The last three players (in other words lurkers) don't get a vote. Then of those 3 wagons. One of those gets elimmed and we won't have these vanity wagons or get to page 200, which i think would be super funny but for game health im willing to help the lot of you out by supporting this initiative

Firebringer please fuck off.

[SquirtleSquad]

Wait, wasn't the first thing that scum shea do in TM was also heavily FOS and poke and prod on Black before he pocketed her

Sensing a theme.

I am pretty sure I found black as town pretty early this game.

Also I was heavily suspicious of her almost the entirety of the dragons newbie game that just ended.

I think I just tend to naturally be suspicious of her playstyle and made a concerted effort to look past the playstyle this game.

I dont think there was ever a point this game where I was seriously sussing black though so this is a weird post where it seems like you're trying to make a narrative fit a conclusion.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'd like to know what you think is townie about LLDs entrance because I don't think there is anything there that LLD can't easily fake and more to the point I kind of think "put in small amount of effort, start a random wagon in another direction." is exactly what scum LLD WOULD do in this spot. It's what I would do.

Right. I fully admit there's nothing I've done so far outside my range but I'm a fucking sociopath whose range is the whole entire deck.

My goal entering this was to just chill, lay back, get some reading done and see if I can't influence the game later. I then entered the thread to "let's kill LLD she's here to save a scum slot" and saw the wagon PB left me and I was like, "ah".

So my new goal became survival. Try to prove myself town and live to a point where I could be of use, while also looking to help game state health.

Picked a player who looked bad in first 20 pages and went for them, happy to die if it means the game state health improves.

In the end, Shea, you earlier said it was me because Klick (a good scumplayer) is reading me town when I (a better scumplayer) could be faking it in my sleep.

I don't know what Klick purports to see, but I do know that argument is bad, or at least comes from frustration.

Work with me, sell me on shit, find me town or don't but don't base my read off whether some other player who I don't actually think can read me has misplaced confidence in my alignment, even when they ARE right.

I'm not scum reading you because of anything you did or because of klick.

I'm scum reading you because of Pink Ball. You just haven't done anything that changes my mind about pink ball yet, which I think you can admit is fair.

I just posted where you can look if you want to see why I have been scum reading blue./rathe.

Okay, I'm gonna make this easy on you. When I read the 20 pages I suspected 5 names.
Blue
Patch
MG
Sheep
Kitty

I will kill any of these today. I picked MG because I felt and do feel that they are the most likely to flip scum though I admit GiF being like "yeah too much for me kill me deuces" gives me pause.

You want my vote on Rathe, I need 3 things from you.

1) An explanation why Rathe plays as purposefully antagonistically as he does for days on days when he had ample opportunity to survive.

2) A large theme game like this undoubtedly has scum safeclaims right? So it's possible Rathe is gambitting without claiming but it would have to be a gambit if he is scum. Do you think Rathe has the experience to do that as scum? To fake the emotion he put out reliably without just dying?

3) Rathe's wagon being at e-1 and fully disipating doesn't feel like scum did that. Town did that. So in your own words why did town do that, in the end?

Rathe is blue.

1) I think people tend to town read obstinance. I've abused that as scum many times. I think that playing antagonistically frequently gets town read and scum do it for literally that reason.

2) I dont think it has to be a gambit. I have also refused to claim before because I thought it would get me town read. It could be a gambit though. I dont really buy the idea that scum has fake claims necessarily though. In this universe its very possible to design roles such that the true claim is itself a safe claim. I also don't think I agree that there was much emotional resonance rathe put out that needed to be faked.

3) Strongly disagree and I don't think about wagonomics like this generally as I think they are very unreliable. I think counterwagons popped up pretty quickly after rathe was pressured and scum succeeded in making town bored with the wagon. I think this happens all the time.

[SquirtleSquad]

I am confused. You're saying you'd vote any of those 5 names. Rathe is one of those 5 names. Rathe is blue.

[SquirtleSquad]

Eh fuck it I'm just gunna lurk out the day. Y'all kill someone kthx.

[SquirtleSquad]

I dont think I gave you an ultimatum. I was intending it as an olive branch for you to work with me if you're town. If you don't wanna you don't wanna.

My ability to get what I want this game is roughly zero so unless y'all land on one of my town reads I don't particularly care anymore.

[SquirtleSquad]

Basically this game has been a revolving door of like 8 names over and over again the whole day and as soon as any of them gain any real traction klick comes in and says they're town and then everyone unvotes them and the next name gets brought up again and I am so tired of it.

[SquirtleSquad]

I don't really think klick is scum either so I don't even think that observation is particularly useful to me.

[SquirtleSquad]

Thats fair. Tone is fickle when I'm this exasperated.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do think you don't believe that you're in any danger of me actually getting a lim on you right now so that whole point feels kind of performative to me but I think you would be performative as town in this spot too.

[SquirtleSquad]

you just did it with LLD like 30 seconds ago.

[SquirtleSquad]

I seem to remember you doing it with cakez too but my recollection is hazy.

[SquirtleSquad]

I was scum reading drew early but he has fallen off my radar.

[SquirtleSquad]

Every instinct in me is screaming to just run away from this thread and let whatever happen but it seems like I'm kinda incapable of doing that.

[SquirtleSquad]

I do think you don't believe that you're in any danger of me actually getting a lim on you right now so that whole point feels kind of performative to me but I think you would be performative as town in this spot too.

I think I have the leading wagon and people are becoming irritable towards no deaths and you are underselling how much your voice is heard from frustrations of how long this day has gone.

It's not reallt performative.

You are definitely no longer the leading wagon and have not been for some time.

[SquirtleSquad]

Playing with FL is kind of like playing with chatGPT that you have told to randomize its scum and town reads but still just post about how great it is all the time.

[SquirtleSquad]

I hope we get like 7 nightkills tonight.

[SquirtleSquad]

Even better if I'm one of them lmao.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'll make it personal. FL is an insufferable git. Thats not related to anyones alignment, its just NAI.

[SquirtleSquad]

gift of gab more like gift of crap amirite

[SquirtleSquad]

I'll make it personal. FL is an insufferable git. Thats not related to anyones alignment, its just NAI.

Exactly.

And I’ve already given my thoughts on how you play in Team Mafia 2020.

All you did in that game is stick your fingers up your own ass and then sniff them repeatedly while talking about how good they smelled.

[SquirtleSquad]

I'm hanging out with Meuh and a man in a red sweater right now actually.

We're playing scrabble.

me again. I suspect the man simply changed sweaters but its hard to say.

[SquirtleSquad]

At least point maybe you should just play as TSQ and have Ali update the playerlist XD

that would be cowardly.

[SquirtleSquad]

TSQ doesn't have quite as many posts as metens and not_mafia but its close.

[SquirtleSquad]

Squirrel Squad.

[SquirtleSquad]

we're gonna end up fucking no limming

this is ping-y.

I don't think there's any real risk of that. I can count on my hand the number of times I've seen a no lim go through because of gamestate reasons like this in like 17 years.

I don't think you're actually doing that much to get us to lim either.

[SquirtleSquad]

u also havent responded to when i answered ur questions

you didnt answer my questions.