SMBM II: Defense of Yoshi's Island (Final! MVPs announced!)

[warriormode]

I like how he was kind of nonchalant forr the past day and then when he gets wagoned its on.

Well yeah, no shit I'm going to defend myself if I'm under attack. Anyway:

2. Well its kinda both. I did attack you, and you responded back by saying "You're scum cause everyone else is town"
3/4. I understand your point, but my point is how can DX interact with people who don't post at all.
Celeb and Ran hardly had any content and DX was dead by the time bbmolla was in.
Your point is only valid for me and you.
Futhermore, I attacked him. In fact it was one of posts was attacking him. did you attack him?
5. I guess I just have to accept the fact that you're a lurker. fair enough.
6. What I was reffering to was bbmolla's quote on you about your 2 minute town read on them.
BTW did you change your read on them once they had guilties?

2: no. That's wrong. I asked what reasons there were for you to be town in 1950 because people seemed to think you were, but I didn't see why, and then in 1957 you said I was your top scumread.
3/4: so you agree with the point that him not mentioning a person doesn't make that person scum. Cool, that's the only point I was trying to make there.

Why does it matter whether or not you attacked him? I voted him. I don't remember strongly attacking him. But attacking him doesn't mean shit especially in a game where, as far as i can tell, the scum have been bussing each other like crazy.

I really wasn't sure on sunset. I was confused at that stage of the game because I couldn't find anything they'd said which looked scummy, and I wasn't entirely sure about the guilty on him. Frankly, I didn't take a stance at that point, because I really didn't have one.

There is a big difference between attacking and just bussing.
Attacking is actually putting a case on someone and bussing is just hopping on the wagon.
So the difference is I attacked David and Vifam and you just hopped on their wagons. That was my point.

For sunset, I don't see how you can't have a stance once someone claims a guilty. That should almost immediately tell you its 1 v 1.
And 1 v 1's are something you need to take a stance on almost every time.

[warriormode]

Im still only comfortable with hammering implosion. I think we got this game locked up.
I realize I was being a dick by saying you have 12 hours to defend yourself I just wanted you to be here.
I'll wait til theres a day left in the deadline before hammering so we can get some final thoughts in, but im still confident that implosion is scum.

[implosion]

There is a big difference between attacking and just bussing.
Attacking is actually putting a case on someone and bussing is just hopping on the wagon.
So the difference is I attacked David and Vifam and you just hopped on their wagons. That was my point.

Bussing is the act of distancing yourself from your scum partners,

usually by helping to lynch them

(and hopefully playing a major role in convincing others that they are worthy to be lynched).

Just because I hopped on the wagons, doesn't mean i was bussing in any way shape or form. Just because you took more time to attack and build cases, doesn't mean you weren't bussing.

As for the 1v1... i agree, i probably should have taken a stance. But again, I was confused and unsure. If 1v1's are something you need to take a stance on almost every time... then i guess that was the one time that doesn't fall under the "almost." Plus I was behind in the game and ridiculously busy.

I also wasn't totally sure if hiplop was claiming a guilty for a bit of it, iirc. 1634, looking at my iso.

[hiplop]

eh i really dont know if i buy implosion being scum.

VOTE: BBMolla

I just don't see it.

[warriormode]

Gawd Damnit.
2 on implosion
2 on bbmolla

@hiplop - I understand that you think there has to scum in one of the baby claims. And it makes sense. But do you happen to have some kind of case besides that?

[implosion]

First half of celebloki's iso. I already talked about the second half. The two bear a similarity in that Celebloki had a tendency to be very rigid in his suspicions. He only really suspected two people, RBT and jakalope.

Wow, This game has been moving fast. Just a disclaimer off the bat I don't post much on the weekends, I do most of my play when I am dodging work during the week. I've read up to the current day and I've pretty much come to the conclusion that it's all typical D1 confusing back and forth. I'll need to ISO some people before I come to anything concrete. I think RBT played awfully and agree with the wagon. The vote on DH can only be described as lolbutthurtOMGUS.

So what's RBT at now? L-4?

Vote: RBT

L-3 now.

So, part of the issue with this post is the last two lines. They feel like they're just an attempt to look like town. Overcautiousness, in a way. He cares too much about the state of the wagon. Another thing is how he says that he's going to have to ISO to come to something concrete... then votes in a way that implies something relatively concrete.

As I stated before I tend to post very lightly on the weekends and this game happened to open on Friday.

My vote is staying on RBT. Not only was that OMGUS vote horrendous but he hasn't even tried to defend himself. Claims he's been posting reads and in his 7 posts of 2 sentences each I really don't see anything I'd call reads or analysis. He sits there and attacks DH without anything behind it but "you're better than this". Maybe actually try and point out why others are scum instead of just throwing the label around. We're trying to tell you to redeem yourself and actually post some reads or analysis and you don't do it. It also doesn't that you're close to a hammer and refuse to claim, reeks of scum not knowing what to fakeclaim.

Basically, he's parking his vote. Most of this justification is okay, but wait for the next post. Also, the last line is just mudslinging. "reeks of scum not knowing what to fakeclaim" is just reaching and finding more reasons to park the vote.

Hmm

Unvote

I will unvote for now. I've been in too many games recently where I've had moronic VIs get mislynched. I guess I'll have to add RBT to my blacklist. In the game WC linked he does the same crap where he says he has a great case on someone and when you read back theres nothing. Just like how he has no reasoning or reads in this game and claims to. He's also hostile and refuses to claim in those games, attacks anyone that goes against him. I'm not giving him a pass because this is how he always plays, but he is pretty much on par with DK in the realm of anti-town play. I have other suspicions on TheJakalope who was very obviously lurking. Say's he'll provide more reads and analysis then disappears, but magically is present to unvote when RBT gets to L-1. He's obviously watching the game and just not posting. Then when he does provide reads he comes up with nothing. Say's diddin is scum and isos him, then pretty much says "oh nvm". My guess he saw his name being thrown around and decided to call him scummy.

Vote: TheJakalope

Before other people call me out as being similar to him, I already stated I hardly look at the site on the weekends due to being busy. Usually in the evenings to make sure I haven't missed anything major. I catchup on Monday's and play throughout the week generally from 9-5. Most of my Mafia play time happens when I am at work dodging productivity. There's a difference between lurking and having the game accumulate 16 pages in 2 days when I am usually not around. I claim TheJakalope was lurking because he was there to unvote only about a half hour after RBT went L-1 sunday morning.

My vote on RBT was easy because at the time he had 3 posts to speak of and they were filled with scummy OMGUS. I continued to watch what happened with him each night and decided his crappy defense didn't warrant my unvote. Now, this morning, from other games I see he plays like this often and I would not like to lose a town slot on him, there's others that can be caught.

So, he unvotes RBT to vote jakalope... for lurking. After all of the points that he had on RBT before. I mean, sure, there could be issues of meta, but with all of the scummy things he'd pointed out about RBT, you'd think it'd be a stronger scumread than one garnered from lurking. He's also preemptively defending himself -> he's concerned about looking like town even when not under direct attack.

I'm not excusing RBT because of meta, I'm saying theres no point in ending the day so fast. Only scum and trigger happy PRs want the day to end fast so they get to do fun shit. We need to exercise our voice and our vote during the daylight hours people. I will happily pile on and lynch RBT after we've used some of our time. Who knows, RBT will probably dig his hole deeper and become even more obvious, if thats even possible.

So, he's not excusing RBT because of meta. After saying in the previous post over and over that he was excusing RBT because of meta.

right.

And then he makes an attempt to gain towncred by pretending to care about the game. The line that only scum want to end the day fast basically sets up a parameter by which to evaluate peoples' alignments, and saying that he's town and others are scum based on that parameter. In other words, he's saying "doing X is a town thing to do; I'm doing X, therefore i'm town and those not doing X are likely scum." In other other words, he's trying to gain towncred while simultaneously giving himself reasons to attack people. And he says RBT will become more obvious. AFTER SAYING RBT IS PROBABLY TOWN. He says he's willing to vote RBT

after they've used time.

It's just ridiculous. It isn't town motivated. Saying someone is town based on meta, then saying that you WEREN'T saying that and that they're actually scum, and saying that you unvoted because of time issues is:

1) cognitive dissonance in the reason for his change of vote to jakalope
2) cognitive dissonance in his read on RBT
3) contradictory.

Townies have opinions and reasons. Townies may change opinions. But townies do not change

what they're opinions were.

townies do not say they have opinion X at moment Y, then say that they had opinion Z at moment Y later on. Townies do not say, very explicitily, multiple separate reasons that contradict each other for a given action.

Well I'd at least like to attempt to get RBT to claim again before we hammer. I may get motivated to drop the hammer. Seems the town isn't much for D1 discussions anyway. We'll at least be able to learn something D2 about what happens at night anyway.

Repeat everything I said in the last paragraph about gaining towncred while simultaneously giving excuses to attack people later.

[warriormode]

Ok this is a pretty good case on Celeb.
I don't see having rigid suspicions as a scum tell.
But you have a great point on how he played overly cautious when no one has suspicion on him
and his attempt to soak in town cred is just blatant too

[warriormode]

And your right he definitely contradicted himself there on the RBT case.
Thanks for putting that case up implosion

[BBmolla]

I can't really respond to that case, Idk why Celebloki did what he did. He was town that's all I really care about.

Can you point out some scummy stuff I myself have done so I can actually respond?

[hiplop]

And your right he definitely contradicted himself there on the RBT case.
Thanks for putting that case up implosion

vote bb, please?

[BBmolla]

I'm not that bothered if I end up being lynched, hiplop's hop onto me doesn't seem like a partner kind of thing more like dumb town. So I think we have a ML.

[hiplop]

its either you or KC. Also resorting to insults is cowards play.

[implosion]

no, bb, because you're difficult to read ;_;

Let's see. 1802/1807, you talked indirectly about your role PM. So, there are two explanations for that:
1) you're town and were talking about your role
2) you're scum and were talking about a baby DK fakeclaim you were given

2 actually makes a lot of sense. It would be a good way to look like town by talking about a town role pm. 1 makes a little less, since you wouldn't have any direct motivation to.

Early on you really weren't doing much of anything that's commentable on. Attacking Kc and changing was probably null.

1939/1940 actually reads as a bit disingenouous. There were 7 people alive, and you were saying you were assuming a 5p scumteam. For it to have been mylo at that point, there would have had to be a

7p scumteam.

You said you'd selfvote because that's your meta, and I know that it's your meta from camn's temperamental where you constantly said you were willing to be lynched and stuff. But then you realized that if you said that, then you'd be totally screwed, so you had to come up with a BS excuse a la "Eh, actually I take it back, I'd feel like crap if I hammered myself and lost the game for everyone."

Between 1944 and 1956 you randomly went from me being scum to warrior being scum, which would also make sense with you-scum since you'd have to push mislynches on both of us to win.

So yeah. Actually. Kind of.

[implosion]

wait, never mind. that was at a point where mylo would involve a 6p scumteam.

either way, you said you were assuming a 5p scumteam.

[implosion]

I mean, like, caution is fine, sure. But it feels like an attempt to fit into what has become your town meta, followed by a realization that trying to fit into that meta could be suicidal.

[warriormode]

And your right he definitely contradicted himself there on the RBT case.
Thanks for putting that case up implosion

vote bb, please?

Sorry, Its just not that easy for me.

I have confirmed town and my top suspect voting on my third suspect

and the other 2 suspects voting on my top suspect.

your vote weighs in heavy obviously cause you're town and you've kicked ass this game.

but its really hard for me to just set my top suspect aside. and also taking out my third.

implosions case on celeb/bbmolla was decent id like to see a case on bbmollas play.
like i said before, bbmolla seems to be playing the "honest town" card. which could be fake but my gut tells me its not.

bbmolla had a good case on implosion I thought, but implosions defense seemed weak on some points but also good on others.

Ultimately,
my reads are
1. Implosion
2. kcda
3. bbmolla

And yours are
1. bbmolla
2. kcda

Now i'm not so sure
Give me a little more time on this.

[BBmolla]

its either you or KC. Also resorting to insults is cowards play.

Meant more along the lines of "mislead" town. Sorry.

[Kcdaspot]

I still say that given the nature of the fake claims thus far there are no scum in the babies.

I have to admit there is a great case on BBmolla's slot.

But Here's the scenario. say both babies are town, but the town thinks otherwise. They lynch one baby, and he flips town. who do you think they'll lynch tomorrow? (assuming a great deal)

It's a risky move that could put this game into town auto loss.

I like my stance better. There's a better chance for town weather or not we are in lylo. It'll put scum (who i still think isn't a baby) in hardcore wifom mode. and if there is a slip up he'll be easily caught.

[BBmolla]

no, bb, because you're difficult to read ;_;

Let's see. 1802/1807, you talked indirectly about your role PM. So, there are two explanations for that:
1) you're town and were talking about your role
2) you're scum and were talking about a baby DK fakeclaim you were given

2 actually makes a lot of sense. It would be a good way to look like town by talking about a town role pm. 1 makes a little less, since you wouldn't have any direct motivation to.

My role PM said I was Baby DK and that I could do something but I don't know what it was and that I was pro-islanders. Donno what else to tell you there. When I got the PM I didn't even know what pro-islander meant. I figured it probably meant town, but there was bit of flavor in my role pm that kept throwing me off. I actually had to look it up and make sure I wasn't a traitor or something.

Early on you really weren't doing much of anything that's commentable on. Attacking Kc and changing was probably null.

1939/1940 actually reads as a bit disingenouous. There were 7 people alive, and you were saying you were assuming a 5p scumteam. For it to have been mylo at that point, there would have had to be a

7p scumteam.

You said you'd selfvote because that's your meta, and I know that it's your meta from camn's temperamental where you constantly said you were willing to be lynched and stuff. But then you realized that if you said that, then you'd be totally screwed, so you had to come up with a BS excuse a la "Eh, actually I take it back, I'd feel like crap if I hammered myself and lost the game for everyone."

Would you not feel like crap for losing a game for all twenty something previous town players in LYLO by hammering yourself? Those two posts were just me changing my thoughts from "There's most likely 5 scum" to "Actually there might be 6."

Between 1944 and 1956 you randomly went from me being scum to warrior being scum, which would also make sense with you-scum since you'd have to push mislynches on both of us to win.

So yeah. Actually. Kind of.

Everyone else seemed reasonably townie enough, and I didn't know why he was supposedly confirmed town, especially after you pointed it out in 1950. So I asked him. After being told the reasoning, I went back to my other read that you'd be the most likely scum.

[warriormode]

Just reread today... I think I found helpful info.
That is, there's only one scum left and not 2.
If we suppose 2 scum, given the current VC, there are only 3 possibilities.
1. Implosion/hiplop
2. Implosion/bbmolla
3. bbmolla/kcda

Possibilities 1 and 2 we can throw out.
earlier today, kcda voted bbmolla.
hiplop and implosion both had chances to vote him before kcda unvoted. and also hiplop is confirmed town.

also, hiplop voted kcda.
bbmolla and implosion both had chances to vote him before hiplop unvoted.
Therefore; 1 and 2 are out of the picture.

This leaves kcda/bbmolla.
Im throwing this one out on the assumption that there isn't 2 baby fake claims.

Therefore; only 1 scum. If anyone disagrees or thinks there could be 2 scum lemme know.
This doesn't make my decision much easier. This only tells us were not in lylo.

[hiplop]

bbmolla you're full of shit.

Why are you the only baby who didnt start with a power and/or was powerless? Yoshi's are the ones who were triggered by the buttons; not the babies. This game is pretty clearly class based, certain things affect certain classes; if we look at the past, we see your claim doesn't reign true with the game ala DIDDIN

[BBmolla]

^I never said or was told it was activated by a button. It's just a passive unactivated ability. I'm assuming it was becoming a part of the mason group like KCDA said earlier.

[Kcdaspot]

mine was never activated by a button either.

[hiplop]

hmm PERHAPS im over thinking it MAYBE

[Kcdaspot]

you are.