i designed this setup in 2019 [game over]

[biancospino]

It's 4 votes, right?

[furtiveglance]

I can't really put N_M anywhere other than null for this, which is very annoying. However, I think QO and KA are town so I'll vote here since there's been a bit of momentum.

Why do you think QO and KA are town?

Sorry, just read the rest of the post lol. The KA thing can be replicated as either alignment. Read the content of their posts

This response is a bit dismissive. I have skimmed their entire ISO, it's not like I just read some of their words. I think what I quoted is +town. I read your case on kitten at the time and didn't agree, I'll respond to it fully later.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

I think lycanfire and prince of paterson have also raised good points about KA fwiw

[biancospino]

Spoiler: UG

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

Or we just kill you and find out that way.

Yes, giving the mafia PR claims IS dangerous, which is why you should only claim when you're close to being eliminated.

Think of it this way: you could either waste the town's time by not claiming, therefore forcing the town to eliminate you to solve your slot and see that flip, thus causing us to have to mis-elim a townie

OR!

You can tell us your role when it becomes clear that if you do not, you will die anyway.

Like I said last post, it could be the missing piece that we need, the thing that will solve your slot and save us from having to eliminate you at all.

If you really are a power role, the mafia will probably try to kill you, which sucks. But now they'll HAVE to kill you. Like we're not going to do it for them if that claim causes us to see you as town. They'll have to use their night kill to eliminate you at that point.

It's wasting the town's time vs wasting the mafia's time. If you wanna wait until you're at L-2 or whatever that'd probably be better but just keep that in mind. A mis-elim is a waste for all of us if it can be avoided by a good claim.

@UG, can you please ELI5 the

underlined

section?
Maybe you can convince me, but I do not really agree; first off, given the game's what it is, I don't think there are very many VTs around, if there are any at all, so the assumption that scums will probably kill whomever they even suspect to be a PR don't really hold much water.
Second, it's not like the scums

have

to kill a claimed PR. In fact, if they don't claim some ultracopter type role, it may even be better to leave them alive to let us speculate further on the matter, and if they do claim ultracopter, scum may very likely fear a protective.

Now, if a claim is truly the only thing that could possibly avoid a lim, like it's E-2 + hated + intent, then yes, there's little point in saying nothing. But QO was never actually held with a gun to his head yet, and it's debatable whether or not a full claim would be warranted anyway.

Just as an aside, we have a lot of roles either completely or partially revealed. Personally I'm getting a little spooked by that. And some of the reveals were not really necessary either, and I am at least partially guilty of this too.

[MathBlade]

I am going to bed now I have read Jack and crap and shit.

Does anyone have any questions for me? You have just a few minutes before I do.

I did read the last post and I think mine was needed because I was thinking I had a guilty on Ranger possibly but turns out it was a mod issue. So I apologize if that caused a chain reaction.

[biancospino]

Is there any particular reason you chose to vend fruit to Ranger instead of anyone else?

[MathBlade]

Is there any particular reason you chose to vend fruit to Ranger instead of anyone else?

Yes, I *think* I hinted at it day one. But I don’t think I can answer that without claiming any modifiers I do or do not have so…

[biancospino]

Nvm, then please don't

[MathBlade]

Cool. I am sleeping now. If anyone has anything please quote me I am sure I missed it

[Quiet Owl]

Spoiler: QO

hmm.
anyone in a neighborhood know if there are any vanilla townies in this game at all?

6 players voting for Quiet Owl (Titus, MathBlade, UltimateGamer, Ranger, imaginality, Elements)
bear in mind that while it takes 11 votes to eliminate someone, i am

passively hated by the town.

this means that today i am eliminated at 10 votes, one vote less than a normal townie.

So with both Not_Mafia and Enchant in this game, that places you as currently at L-2.

So...why aren't you claiming?

E-4, unless you claim to predict the future.
i have no intention to claim at any point in this game. how on earth would that be remotely useful?

Because if you're town, it'd help us not potentially make a big mistake. Eliminating you, as a townie, would be a mistake. If you claim that gives us insight that we did not previously have that can help us make a more informed decision as a town.

The only reason NOT to claim is because we are all trying to keep PRs secret and keep the mafia from having ALL the cards. But if you're going to die anyway, best tell us what you're going to flip and maybe, just maybe, it'll be the piece that helps us solve your slot.

as towny as you are, your attitude to claiming is dangerous. the kills from last night worry me and i refuse to help them target more PRs.

clear out the scum in the neighbourhood first and then you can safely figure out the setup.

@QO, quick question, binary answer please, I don't want the full explanation.
Did you have any reason, beside curiosity, to ask about the existence of VTs?

I ask 'cause it would seem to me outing the existence of a VT would normally be of greater utility for anti-town, especially since outing the existence of non-PRs would alert grouscums that they really have to aim with the nightkill. That seems incongruous with your stated reluctance to take any step to facilitate scums' PR-hunting.

yeah, two reasons.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Who do you think is scum, Quiet Owl? You're not voting

[biancospino]

I REFUSE TO FLIP NOT_MAFIA

@Enchant, anything to say on this?
Refuse is a strong word. And ALL CAPS is aggressive by nature.
And you have N_M as the sole member of your town-block beside you.
If you don't think N_M is looking scummy, that's fine, I also read absolute null, but I feel straight out refusing to entertain the notion of a lim to be worthy of some veneer of explanation

[biancospino]

I REFUSE TO FLIP NOT_MAFIA

Yes because he's convenient cover for distracting people from you.

YES

And if this is the explanation, that frankly smells bad

[biancospino]

I am 100% functionally a mason. Neighbor with mod confirmation that my neighbor is town. Yes. That's a mason. Imaginality has the same thing.

I believe this is certainly closer to true, but it's still not the truth.

@Ranger, do you have some alternative explanation?
I may have reasons why I would not want to completely discount the possibility that Titus may be honest here, while at the same time her not

actually

being BestFriend as she claims. If you have a scenario in mind, I'm willing to hear it

[Ranger]

I’m assuming it’s either because I defended QA or because I misunderstood Titus’ claim but I know at least one person posited me as buddies with them and Titus is voting me for apparently being a UG buddy now? lol. I’m extremely fascinated how people are even coming up with these wild takes.

As a general rule, a player who fits as scum with everyone is scum with no one.

People keep saying you're scum with everyone, when...

[Ranger]

In terms of scum numbers, people are saying multiball.

Pray tell, why are people saying it's multiball?

Could it be because Quiet Owl suggested it in his very first post?

Because there's no evidence the game's multiball and in fact direct evidence it

isn't

multiball. A flipped psychiatrist implies the presence of a serial killer; if it were multiball, we'd be

missing a kill

.

[Ranger]

there's no evidence the game's multiball and in fact direct evidence it

isn't

multiball. A flipped psychiatrist implies the presence of a serial killer; if it were multiball, we'd be

missing a kill

.

To explain, Psychiatrist = Serial Killer.
Serial Killers have kills.
We had two kills on town players N1.
Serial Killer who saw a Psychiatrist flip D1 would know they can't townside so would aim for town.
Two kills = groupscum + SK.

If the game were multiball, it should've been

three

kills (group A + group B + SK).

Two kills is direct evidence of singleball, so the multiball theory is explicitly proscum and likely +scum.

[Ranger]

....................... that's why they're probably town for not wanting to claim....

Alternatively, they don't want to be locked into a fakeclaim and are relying on people like you to bail them out off the idea of not claiming = town.

You're an enabler of scum getting away with things they shouldn't be allowed to get away with.

[Ranger]

I mean, I do not necessarily find any one post of McMenno inherently scummy, however I don't think it's fair to say they're as blank as N_M. N_M is blank and until he says something that's not a meme I refuse to believe he's not blank. McMenno did say game-related things that are clearly not-memey. In particular, they have in multiple occasions remarked that both the QO and the Ythan wagons were bad. I'm actually interested in the fact they seemed quite convinced of the badness of the Ythan wagon, I'd would very much like they would explain their read on the slot. Looking over to Ythan's postings I struggle to see where this conviction may come from
VOTE: McMenno

This is a bad wagon because people are still not giving any reason for McMenno's posts to actually be

scum

.

McMenno's posts have all seemed town.

[Gimli]

there's no evidence the game's multiball and in fact direct evidence it

isn't

multiball. A flipped psychiatrist implies the presence of a serial killer; if it were multiball, we'd be

missing a kill

.

To explain, Psychiatrist = Serial Killer.
Serial Killers have kills.
We had two kills on town players N1.
Serial Killer who saw a Psychiatrist flip D1 would know they can't townside so would aim for town.
Two kills = groupscum + SK.

If the game were multiball, it should've been

three

kills (group A + group B + SK).

Two kills is direct evidence of singleball, so the multiball theory is explicitly proscum and likely +scum.

are you suggesting a multiball theory is more likely to come from scum?

either way the only thing we do know, because of the flipped psychiatrist, is the presence of a neutral SKer. we could have all sorts of mechanics that explain why there wasn't a 3rd kill at night, between modifiers and protections.

[Ranger]

I am 100% functionally a mason. Neighbor with mod confirmation that my neighbor is town. Yes. That's a mason. Imaginality has the same thing.

I believe this is certainly closer to true, but it's still not the truth.

@Ranger, do you have some alternative explanation?
I may have reasons why I would not want to completely discount the possibility that Titus may be honest here, while at the same time her not

actually

being BestFriend as she claims. If you have a scenario in mind, I'm willing to hear it

I don't feel like rehashing my iso right now; skim my iso and you'll catch plenty more.

[Quiet Owl]

there's no evidence the game's multiball and in fact direct evidence it

isn't

multiball. A flipped psychiatrist implies the presence of a serial killer; if it were multiball, we'd be

missing a kill

.

To explain, Psychiatrist = Serial Killer.
Serial Killers have kills.
We had two kills on town players N1.
Serial Killer who saw a Psychiatrist flip D1 would know they can't townside so would aim for town.
Two kills = groupscum + SK.

If the game were multiball, it should've been

three

kills (group A + group B + SK).

Two kills is direct evidence of singleball, so the multiball theory is explicitly proscum and likely +scum.

oh you don't count 3ps as separate factions therefore you consider a game with a mafia and a sk to be singleball?

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Multiball is 2+ groupscum factions

SK isn't groupscum

....................... that's why they're probably town for not wanting to claim....

Alternatively, they don't want to be locked into a fakeclaim and are relying on people like you to bail them out off the idea of not claiming = town.

You're an enabler of scum getting away with things they shouldn't be allowed to get away with.

I mean, that's possible but not probable

But they couldn't rely on people like me to defend them. Refusing to claim is more likely to get you limmed than not on MS. It's anti-survivalist.

[Cat Scratch Fever]

Owl, who is scum?

[Ranger]

are you suggesting a multiball theory is more likely to come from scum?

Yes. It gives a convenient distraction from natural scumhunting. Talking about multiball warps the discussion away from hunting for a coherent team and into hunting players who are town via scumhunting but appear like they could be scum if the game were multiball.

It prevents players from being townread who otherwise would be townread, because multiball standards for town are different than singleball standards for town.

Advocating for multiball acts as a distraction, casting attention away from a team of ~5-6 (for this game size) and away from clearing someone who can't be scum with others.