Mini 1584: Neuroscience Mafia - GAME OVER

[zMuffinMan]

Cult is *vastly* worse than multiball. It's not even in the same ballpark.

honestly, i would rather be town in a declared cult game than town in a multiball game i don't know is multiball til midway through the game

but i would agree with that if they've both been declared pregame

[Thor665]

You really hate multiball - does that extend to SKs?

[FakeGod]

CONGRATULATIONS ON MODDING YOUR FIRST GAME KAGAMI!!!!!

Was it everything you imagined it to be?

[Kagami]

Was fun, planning to do it again once the kagami household is a little better settled~

[zMuffinMan]

You really hate multiball - does that extend to SKs?

yes

and traitors, fwiw. mostly because of how non-uniform they are. (and if they're the last scum and you don't know you're dealing with a traitor, it reallllllly fucks with interaction hunting)

[zMuffinMan]

SKs because i legitimately believe that anyone who thinks they can SK hunt is talking out of their

ass

smurf, but in general they are just really swingy in setups. for example, lynch a SK D1 in a setup where it wasn't expected they died D1 and the game has already gone way off course in terms of how it was balanced

[Kagami]

Regarding the modding itself, everything was pretty straightforward, in part thanks to an excellent playerlist. There was a minor hiccup with Reinoe sending Cabd a PM, and I hope no one disagrees with how that was handled.

Otherwise, special thanks to everyone who replaced in. I didn't have to wait long for any replacements, and was really happy about that. Sorry to Thor and Havingfitz, who inherited some really difficult positions.

@muffin, I actually like certain implementations of traitor, it's not a bad role at all.

[Kagami]

O, and there was no way I could keep up the neuroscience facts. I just didn't have the time and they took far longer than I expected. Sorry about that~

[zMuffinMan]

traitor is fine if you (a) know one is in the game, and (b) know how it interacts with the scum team as well as other roles (did scum know the traitor, did traitor know the scum, was he recruitable, how do different investigative roles interact with traitor, etc etc)

otherwise, it's just shit

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Good game guys.

My instincts were quite good this game so I have to happy really. I noticed Anen's soft defend of MDD which prompted my case on him, obviously for the wrong reasons though!

I knew something was up with FT, actually quite annoyed that I didn't try and push his lynch a little harder. Although with more experienced players sometimes it can be hard for newer players like myself to be heard. I was scum-reading Scarab just before he left the game as well but Elyse completely reversed that read so well played to her.

Should have tried harder to keep myself alive the day I got lynched. Just got bored with the direction the game was going and the pace of it. So sorry about that.

Well played FT and Elyse. Motherfuckers.

[zMuffinMan]

like i think my first scum game after coming back from a hiatus was death's diner, where we had a traitor that we (the scum team) knew the identity of but he didn't know our identity, town didn't know he was a traitor but knew there was a traitor in their dethy so they outed information they didn't need to, eventually the traitor got lynched but no useful interaction analysis could come from it because he legitimately had no clue who the scum team was. and a traitor who doesn't know who the scum team is isn't playing mafia. it's just awful.

other traitor iterations can blindside a town just as much

and the worst part is that people seem to think a traitor is a good idea when you don't want to give scum too much power but want to give them an extra member; i think this comes from a mindset of people overrating factional talk and not thinking about how it affects other aspects of a game.

[zMuffinMan]

but knew there was a traitor in their dethy

was a scum player in their dethy*

[Fat_Tony]

o right. the other thing about the setup is i could reasonably see mafia thinking 9:2:1 was a possibility, but werewolves would automatically assume 8:2:2

This. In fact, that's basically exactly what happened - iirc the mafia QT has a lot of third party spec - which we wolves were more than happy to perpetuate because we knew from post 1 it was 8:2:2.

I think in order for this setup to be balanced, the second team needs to be mafia too, absolutely agree with the people who've said this.

[fferyllt]

You really hate multiball - does that extend to SKs?

yes

and traitors, fwiw. mostly because of how non-uniform they are. (and if they're the last scum and you don't know you're dealing with a traitor, it reallllllly fucks with interaction hunting)

>.>

[Kagami]

Imo, traitor has to know who the scumteam is, but scum does not need to know there's a traitor. Traitor should not be recruitable, but should be killable.

The point of a traitor, to my mind, is not about communication, but about forcing a player to make associations with the scumteam, or risk being crosskilled.

[Fat_Tony]

Good game guys.


I knew something was up with FT, actually quite annoyed that I didn't try and push his lynch a little harder. Although with more experienced players sometimes it can be hard for newer players like myself to be heard. I was scum-reading Scarab just before he left the game as well but Elyse completely reversed that read so well played to her.
[...]

Well played FT and Elyse. Motherfuckers.

Thanks, BBT. Likewise. As I say, amazed to get out of D2 let alone D3.

[Kagami]

(I would tell scum there's a traitor, myself, but I can see arguments for the opposite if the traitor is informed such)

[zMuffinMan]

The point of a traitor, to my mind, is not about communication, but about forcing a player to make associations with the scumteam, or risk being crosskilled.

mm, the problem with that (apart from the non-uniform way traitors are run because not everyone has the same opinions as you do on how a traitor should be run) is that scum can semi-clear a traitor for anyone who is hunting interactions in such a way that they rule out X & Y as scum because of how X treated Y. i suppose you could argue that's their fault for not predicting a traitor, but this is just fundamentally how interaction hunting works, and traitors fuck with that.

i think if you're running a traitor it should simply be scum knows traitor, traitor knows scum, but they cannot be recruited and cannot communicate.

[BlueBloodedToffee]

Also, thanks for modding Kagami!

[zMuffinMan]

also sorry for lynching you bbt but you were in a poe list of people that i couldn't really see as town and after i decided AP was more likely town than not, it was basically you or fat tony and you were the wagon that had more support.

i was shutting down the elyse lynch for silly reasoning. i haven't actually checked but i specifically threw out something along with the doc speculation where i specifically used the pronoun "she" when talking about the doc - this was designed to get one of ffery and elyse killed, and i figured if elyse was town she'd be the one scum would kill for that.

[zMuffinMan]

also thought your speculation that i was trying to quickhammer you for a win was incredibly dumb!

[fferyllt]

also sorry for lynching you bbt but you were in a poe list of people that i couldn't really see as town and after i decided AP was more likely town than not, it was basically you or fat tony and you were the wagon that had more support.

i was shutting down the elyse lynch for silly reasoning. i haven't actually checked but i specifically threw out something along with the doc speculation where i specifically used the pronoun "she" when talking about the doc - this was designed to get one of ffery and elyse killed, and i figured if elyse was town she'd be the one scum would kill for that.

I guess it depends on whether a player does mindset-based reads or not, but I pretty much eliminated myself from PR contention on day 2 by being so fatalistic. It's something I'm working on, but I've been working on it a long time.

[zMuffinMan]

i'm fairly sure there's a protective role in this game (probably doc) and as long as she is alive i'd rather keep scum guessing

oh right.

yeah this was an intentional us of "she" that was meant to look like an unintentional slip

i dunno if scum even picked up on that but it likely didn't matter since they'd ruled practically everyone else out as a doc via tracks

[BlueBloodedToffee]

also sorry for lynching you bbt but you were in a poe list of people that i couldn't really see as town and after i decided AP was more likely town than not, it was basically you or fat tony and you were the wagon that had more support.

i was shutting down the elyse lynch for silly reasoning. i haven't actually checked but i specifically threw out something along with the doc speculation where i specifically used the pronoun "she" when talking about the doc - this was designed to get one of ffery and elyse killed, and i figured if elyse was town she'd be the one scum would kill for that.

It's all good man. I genuinely believed I was a good lynch to try and help town the following day (plus like you said pretty much everyone was happy with me being lynched). You guys nearly had it as well, was unlucky.

[zMuffinMan]

i likely would have been just as ok with a fat tony lynch but you were acting weird and i thought your lynch me today! thing didnt make a lot of sense. i mean, if you thought fat tony was scum, lynch him instead of asking to be lynched. if you were worried fat tony was town, then the order of lynches wouldn't make a difference (lynching you then fat tony is just as bad if fat tony was town, but lynching fat tony first leads to the possibility of lynching someone you don't 100% know to be town, and if he's scum you look better)

*shrug*

plays like that are incredibly easy for scum to make and i've seen it so many times as well as done it myself that it bothers me