DHSDSM beta: Game Over.

[Saunt Adelaus]

sex w/ shafteds wife club, Latvian Mafia Godfather, has been killed.

[Saunt Adelaus]

Votecount as of post 213:

PoketheAlpaca:

3

:Ortohoops, J-Scope, Ojando
Raging Wishbone:

2

:Yosariwen, nyballosulgniirkps,
Trotsky:

2

:Zmd, Zaphod Beeblebrox,
Ortohoops:

1

:PoketheAlpaca
zmd:

1

:Frog Dodging,


not voting:

3

:Raging Wishbone, Trotsky,

while 11 players are alive, 6 votes will lynch

edit: I missed PoketheAlpaca's vote. I may have missed more. These walls of text are good at hiding votes.

[Saunt Adelaus]

prodded: Trotsky

current prod count:

1

:Frog Dodging, Ortohoops, PoketheAlpaca, Yosariwen, Zmd, Trotsky

3rd prod = instant replacement.

[Trotsky]

so this game mechanic makes my eyes bleed. guys, honestly, you don't need to post essays. make salient points and don't waste posts on nonsense and we'll be all good.

Please stop wasting time on chit chat and get on with the LYNCH TROTSKY OPERATION. He is not his town self.

unvote, vote: Trotsky

whose meta are you basing this on?

zaphod, why is this question so hard for you to answer. i asked it once and got completely ignored, then i asked it again while voting for you and in response got an "omg wtf bbq" dgb blow up. she is hiding behind some newfangled meta hatred for me and obsession with the fact that i have found her scummy in multiple recent games.

i posit that zaphod was looking for an easy wagon and calling a meta argument against us that didn't even need to be backed up was a great way to try and start it. her complete disregard to my query of what exactly the basis of her meta argument was is evidence in favor of this theory. the emotional outburst in favor of actually responding to me is just gravy.

vote: zaphod

i haven't completely gone through all of the monster posts that have been made recently, but i will be getting together with my other head and doing that soon. a cursory glance up the page after this shaft.elvis death gives me a warm fuzzy about zaphod's chances of being a scumpartner.

[J-Scope]

Looking back at Sex with shaft.ed’s wife’s posts I don’t see PoketheAlpaca as a likely partner of them. Much of their post 164 was dedicated to building up a serious case on Alapca and they didn’t push the case on Trotsky nearly as far.

At this point I'm not liking Trotsky or PtA. I'd like more pressure on the former, but have a clearer read on the latter. So let's do both, we've got all they lynches we want.

This to me looks like an attempt to group the two together by saying he’d be okay with lynching both. But at the same time SWSSC only had a minor point about Trotsky while making a big case on Alpaca. I don't see them preparing to move off the Alpaca wagon with only a few pages left in the day.

Post 175 looks like an attempt to push the Alpaca lynch before the Trotsky lynch. Shaft.ed’s post 200 doesn’t change my opinion about how they were treating Trotsky or Alpaca. Therefore I think Alpaca is very unlikely to be a scumbuddy with Shaft.ed.

I need to see if anyone else interacted with shaft.ed but right now I’d be more confidant in a RW lynch than a Alpaca one. I'll probably vote them after a read of shaft.ed interactions and more looking at RW and Yosariwen's AIM chats. I don't like the Trotsky or Ortohoops wagon, and I don't think Yosariwen is scum. I'm still not sure about ZMD; they just haven't said or done enough.

unvote

[Raging Wishbone]

"Another one Bites the dust"... I think it is safe to now assume A & B lied about killing FrogDodge and submitted a Sex wi5th Ed kill... Thanks.. Two down, two to go.... Hmmm.......

Looking back at Sex with shaft.ed’s wife’s posts I don’t see PoketheAlpaca as a likely partner of them. Much of their post 164 was dedicated to building up a serious case on Alapca and they didn’t push the case on Trotsky nearly as far.

At this point I'm not liking Trotsky or PtA. I'd like more pressure on the former, but have a clearer read on the latter. So let's do both, we've got all they lynches we want.

This to me looks like an attempt to group the two together by saying he’d be okay with lynching both. But at the same time SWSSC only had a minor point about Trotsky while making a big case on Alpaca. I don't see them preparing to move off the Alpaca wagon with only a few pages left in the day.

Post 175 looks like an attempt to push the Alpaca lynch before the Trotsky lynch. Shaft.ed’s post 200 doesn’t change my opinion about how they were treating Trotsky or Alpaca. Therefore I think Alpaca is very unlikely to be a scumbuddy with Shaft.ed.

I need to see if anyone else interacted with shaft.ed but right now I’d be more confidant in a RW lynch than a Alpaca one. I'll probably vote them after a read of shaft.ed interactions and more looking at RW and Yosariwen's AIM chats. I don't like the Trotsky or Ortohoops wagon, and I don't think Yosariwen is scum. I'm still not sure about ZMD; they just haven't said or done enough.

unvote

Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....

@Hoops, please post us your daytalks without the white blobs Sir, lol. now that Alpha is over you can discuss both games at the same time....

My new reads...

Yo/Nuw - town

Poke/Tajo - townish
FrogDodge - Townish

Trotsky - neutral
Nyballs - neutral
Zaphod - neutral

Hoops - ? Waiting
J-Scope - ? Waiting

Ojando - dont know

ZMD - Scumish

I wanna here what Hoops and Jscope write and f RR aint back later I will make a vote after that...

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

It's not normal for Trotsky to lurk and be so un-roflcopter-like. In fact, this is very much roflcopterscum meta terrritory.

I don't need a wall of text to explain that, do I?

I think we should lynch Trotsky now. I'll be happy to support an RW lynch tomorrow.

[Trotsky]

zaphod, you can shout meta all day long and prove nothing. why can't you be arsed to answer a very simple question that was asked on page

two

?

it is very much a waste of a post to restate your position and add absolutely nothing new, except to make even more clear that you have no intention of answering for yourself.

I think we should lynch Trotsky now. I'll be happy to support an RW lynch tomorrow.

getting all of your ducks in a row i see

[populartajo]

Im an expert analyzing this. My comments on bold and analyzing just the odds of scumpartnership with shaftedelvis.

God this game mechanic is painful.

RW for the love of God could you PLEASE not quote entire walls of text to reply with one line. PLEASE!@!!

Null here, RR slightly townie here for the difficult to fake frustration

Yos

You're grandstanding that all this resistance to your RW case indicates he's being protected by scum buddies. Yet many game players haven't posted since your case. Furthermore, the problem people have with your RW case is not the case itself it's your apparenty hypocrisy. You state that it's imperative that town lynch 2-3 times this action phase, list PtA as your second suspect, state you'd be happy with his lynch, but derail the wagon on PtA to push your RW case. This is clearly a logical inconsistency. Also most of your RW case surrounds the A&B vote shenanigans. I'd be amazed if you don't recall RW's voting on your wagon in Alpha.

Yos slightly townie here for the first case in his list and the time dedicated to his "apparent hypocrisy".

Orto

Your back and forth with Yos is stifling game conversation. While I feel your points are valid, you're sidetracking discussion which is antitown. I also don't like that you feel the need to reply to every single point against you. Do you still find PtA most likely scum? If so is Yos a likely buddy or a misguided townie?

Orto scummy here. SWSSC agress that he has valid points but also he is called antitown. The last two questions feel fabricated.

PtA

You're still tunneling. Tunneling is not a PtA town tell.

Read other posts to see how hard SWSSC pushed here.

RW

For the love of God...see above. I'm getting a townish read off of RW for what it matters.

Null here, see above

J-Scope

Thanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs However, what do you like about Trotsky's Zaphod case? There's nothing there.

slightly townie for the smiley and the townie points

Zaph

I obviously agree with your point against Yos, but what about the rest of the game. More input please.

slightly scummy for the agreement against yos and the call for more input

Ojando

Ojando is feeling off to me. I can't put a finger on it, need more content.

Ojando null here. SWSSC wanted to make him look bad but witj no reasoning.

Frog Dodging

I find it amusing that you make a case against Zmd for being out in their own little world by focusing on Trotsky. Yet you don't notice that his target Trotsky is doing the same exact thing barely playing the game and trying to push a case on Zaphod. In your experience do you think it more or less likely scum-Zmd would be pushing a pointless case on a a scumpartner? That said I do feel Zmd needs some pressure and I like your posting overall.

Frog comes slightly townie here. Seems like SWSSC is trying to convince him.

Trotsky

Your answer to my querry is lacking.

the vig claim would obviously be stupid as mafia, it was from zaphod's initial ignorance of the a+b wagon that we suspected her, and the sudden switch and hard push on it implied hard bussing--which we would expect dgbscum to do in such a case.

This still doesn't address why you would then ask A&B to kill Zaphod. At that point in time you knew A&B was very unlikely mafia, you just admitted as such.

Trotsky comes slightly townie here. I dont see bussing. SWSSC is pushing a decent case against him.

[J-Scope]

Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....

You can't trust any of the PMs or QTs I made in alpha because they were fake, and I had faked the censored beta stuff too to make it look more realistic.

I didn't say anything substantial about beta in the QT because alpha was the main game at the time of my posts whereas beta was only around page 3. After about the first week I had accepted that K-Scope and I weren't going to be playing as one person so I didn't confer anything with him.

Here is the only post I mentioned beta though. It was the first post of the QuickTopic:

Hi. I realized that we should probably have some kind of private communication.

Let me know if I'm talking too much or looking too wishy-washy. There are some things that we should probably decide on together before we post. You can rein me in if I'm saying something stupid on alpha.

In alpha, I'm starting to pressure Ortohoops and I feel like an Apples/Banana vote or a Trotsky vote could be orchestrated. Pesco could be the biggest target now but I don't know if we should join that bandwagon now. We are already tied to them through Incamnito though. What do you think?

In beta, we need to post something but I can't think of a worthwhile thing to say.

Aww, look at me trying to setup a mislynch
That post was made April 28 which correlates to page 3 of beta. You can guess that I had been waiting for K-Scope to talk to me before I made anything more than a random vote, which is why my first substantial post didn't happen until April 29.

[Raging Wishbone]

Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....

You can't trust any of the PMs or QTs I made in alpha because they were fake, and I had faked the censored beta stuff too to make it look more realistic.

I didn't say anything substantial about beta in the QT because alpha was the main game at the time of my posts whereas beta was only around page 3. After about the first week I had accepted that K-Scope and I weren't going to be playing as one person so I didn't confer anything with him.

Here is the only post I mentioned beta though. It was the first post of the QuickTopic:

Hi. I realized that we should probably have some kind of private communication.

Let me know if I'm talking too much or looking too wishy-washy. There are some things that we should probably decide on together before we post. You can rein me in if I'm saying something stupid on alpha.

In alpha, I'm starting to pressure Ortohoops and I feel like an Apples/Banana vote or a Trotsky vote could be orchestrated. Pesco could be the biggest target now but I don't know if we should join that bandwagon now. We are already tied to them through Incamnito though. What do you think?

In beta, we need to post something but I can't think of a worthwhile thing to say.

Aww, look at me trying to setup a mislynch
That post was made April 28 which correlates to page 3 of beta. You can guess that I had been waiting for K-Scope to talk to me before I made anything more than a random vote, which is why my first substantial post didn't happen until April 29.

Very cool Bro, please post a screencap, so we can match it to Alpha screencap?

[Zmd]

"Feh, ZMD's most recent post is sparse and almost purely responsive. Everything about his post is watered down and galvanized only by questions. Even his case and vote are forced in order to refute ShaftedSex."

That's how I play. I respond to things that either stand out or are directed at me.

I'm tempted to vote for ZMD here. Again, they are nowhere near where the actual discussion is happening. They're off in their own little world - which is a comfortable position to be in for scum. They have their suspect, who's unlikely to be lynched, so they can simply leave their vote there for a while. They're not in the thick of a great debate, so they're not going to be questioned too heavily. All they need to do is make a post every once in a while re-affirming their support of a trotsky wagon.
In this game I do it on Santos, partly so I don't have to comment on the wagon on my scumbuddy. In this game I had planned to do it on elmo, my scumpartner (but then ended up lurking instead. Whoops!) You can see it starting, though, if you look at my posts in isolation. This one I do it on alexhans, my scumpartner. It's so much easier to play as scum if you don't have to pay attention to the game.

Just to your chosen vote.

So basically my choices for scum are unlikely to be lynched, so I should mindlessly follow everyone else? Riiiiight.

You have a point, shaft.ed, about trotsky. With ZMD it feels worse because ZMD has also been lurking all game, whereas trostky was relatively active and involved at the beginning - the

only

thing zmd has done is push that wagon.

Walls-O-Text tend to make me less interested in games. But I'm pushing Trotsky/Ortohoops/Hogfather as scum because that was my impression when I made my original read.

And you are a paragon of contribution, and definitely not lurking whatsoever! You're attacking someone who

barely posted at all

for posting more than needed in the first couple of pages while ignoring PTA who posted completely useless posts early on. What are you smoking, and where can I get some?

I just read Trotsky as scummier.

This is a well-qualified and great piece of analysis. POSITIVELY RIVETING

I can't post my opinions now?

And I think he made a vote I didn't like the timing of.

Well, your honour, I think he might've gone done something I didn't quite cotton to at that point! Ayup!

So you want me to ignore what caught my attention earlier?

I love how when it's pointed out he didn't vote after naming his suspects he gets RIGHT ON VOTING RIGHT THEN AND THERE. I'd also like to note that all of Zmd's votes so far have been on someone with 0 votes. It's like he's trying to blatantly avoid looking like a bandwagoner and trying to avoid any possible connection to anyone else at all. PAAAARANOIA

I voted because I usually like having a vote out. Didn't realize I forgot to vote before. And I voted my top suspect regardless of the number of votes.

Apparently I also want to note that zmd's posts are noticeably less detailed and whatnot than in alpha.

Sorry. I need to stop being lazy with Walls-O-Text.

-----------------------------

Yos, what makes me look cautious?

-----------------------------

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (0)
3. Zmd (0)
4. Trotsky(2): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
9. sex w/ shafteds wife club(0):
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (0):
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

[Ojando]

"Another one Bites the dust"... I think it is safe to now assume A & B lied about killing FrogDodge and submitted a Sex wi5th Ed kill... Thanks.. Two down, two to go.... Hmmm.......

Umm, no.
I find it utterly strange that you are or pretend to be so clueless about the game mechanic when this has been spelled out to you already, IIRC after the lynch of A&B. SWSWC was killed ridiculously much later than 30 hours after A&B's last breath, so it can't have been A&B.
Either Frog dodging had protection or then A&B lied to piss them of or something. And we must still have someone alive outside of the mafia that can kill.

I am not going to change my opinion of how off it feels for Yos to defend Nuwen, however I will give you this point they WERE scum in Alpha and I absolutely do not feel they are scum here anymore. Dude she kicked our asses in Heavens Gates, so for him to say she is inexperienced is off in my humble opinion. Regarding your further comments again me and Nuwen simulposted... My response was NOT to her aim logs...

Yosarian said that their case on you guys was originally Nuwen's read. That's the only thing I can understand you were referring to, this whole inexperienced thing comes from alpha and imo never surfaced in beta. Even though you changed your mind, unless you convincingly explain your thought process about where exactly you thought Yos was defending Nuwen ITT (with quotes) I'm gonna perceive that accusation as twisted enough to be quite scummy.

So basically my choices for scum are unlikely to be lynched, so I should mindlessly follow everyone else? Riiiiight.

The problem is you're not putting any arguments forward or making any case. You've just been putting forward a lone vote based on impression, or voicing your suspicions based on something you haven't even bothered to look up again ("Gut. And I think he made a vote I didn't like the timing of" about why our predecessor was scummy to you). This method marginalizes your contributions very much.

It depends on which half. The half that likes to lurk to victory is also the one that tunnels like mad when town. So seesawing and lurking would lean scum - heavily.

In our opinion Zaphod's strongly meta-based attack displayed for example in above quote is a strange viewpoint. They're trying to meta a hydra based on their experience with the 2 heads and assuming that they'll act like zaphod expects. That seesawing part in above quote for example was clearly two people going in different directions and zaphod saying this is scummy because one of the heads tunnels as town is just a dodgy argument.
In post 201 Zaphod also agreed with selected points from shafteds list of people including in the quotes was RW seeming townish. Yet in same breath she contradicted herself as being ready to lynch RW.
Just last page Zaphod said:

@ Yosariwen
I don't understand why you're voting RW when Poke is another main suspect of yours, has a far larger wagon, and you think Poke may be RW's buddy. To wit: "*10. PoketheAlpaca (PokerFace+populartajo) : Along with the other things that have been pointed out, possible link to Raging Wishbone, in this post where he defends Raging wishbone. "

In 201 Zaphod herself switched their vote to Trotsky, although their hydra was a strong suspector of PTA's. I think SWSWC's flip as scum makes PtA less likely to be mafia, but Zaphod's switch happened before SWSWC got killed.

I need to talk to my better half, at the moment Zaphod, Zmd and RW are the most scummy to me.

[Zaphod Beeblebrox]

For once in my life - I'd swear that adding a megapost to this game would make me sick. That, among other things, is making it fairly hard for me to really get into this game. I'll try to put in more effort and do my best here. Right now, my best will hopefully be fairly concise. PREVIW EDIT: Sorry, nevermind; that didn't really happen.

Sex Club. Before I forget, noting that I have seen Elvis-GF bus a buddy not under too much overt suspicion. Gut, though, agrees with J-Scope: PtA isn't a likely buddy of Sex Club.

Hm. Not sure how much that means in either direction, but I found it skimming around. Putting it up on the corkboard for now.

Whether or not scum will post fluff is a WIFOM storm. If it's excessive, why, we've already discussed at length why that's very anti-town. Otherwise there are two balancing WIFOM elements - scum may jump on fluffy stuff which isn't excessive, or scum may attempt to post semi-fluff. I'll deal with it on a case-by-case basis, but theory arguments like this, especially in a game weighed down by megaposts, are derailing.

Yosariwen, I need you to detail what about Sex Club's posting during the A&B lynch looked so notably pro-town, please. Also - you thought the wagon was either scum-supported or not opposed by the scum. Can you pinpoint what gave you this feeling?

I'm still trying to decide what exactly I'm feeling off that post of Yosariwen's. However, the recent development of the Sex Club flip has definitely led me to question the PtA wagon - which I was on, basically.

I think Yoswen is scum with PTA and is trying both to derail his wagon and tie RW to him if he gets lynched regardless and flips scum.

Post. Rubs me the wrong way.

By the way, PtA, my post under the Plum account was a bit mixed up - I think it seemed that I was making a response to you, which you commented on, which was actually directed at RW. I was being called off the computer and didn't have time to preview my post and realize that my copy/pasting had often been in wrong sections of that post.

I still believe that the general attack on me for my analysis of A&B &c. is weak and the fact tells more about my general playstyle than my alignment.

Ah, I see what I was feeling about Yosariwen's post: Probably town player working hard to put together an analysis of a game they're not quite feeling, being a bit frustrated. Unless he's lying about spending two hours on Post 179 . . . I'm getting the vibe of a true attempt at scumhunting from someone frustrated with the game.

RW, I don't always expect great things of you, but your case on Yosariwen frankly sucks. I do not see a compelling enough meta argument to begin to justfy your vote there. Wait. Wait wait wait. I noticed that Sex Club was early on the A&B wagon. Where was RW? His random vote went there. Then Sex Club came along, then Pesco Light (now Nybs) then Trotsky (PtA, let this be a mini-analysis of that wagon looking for possible scum opportunism &c., as you asked; it was a reasonable request). This is all on page 1-2. Sex Club also attacked PtA early.

Why has apples and bananas wagon died? Because they decided to try to look like they're playing the game? All they did was agree with Yosariwen's point and hide behind them. Agreeing is fine. Wagoning is fine. No original thinking = scum.

This was when the first PtA wagon seemed to be overtaking the A&B one. Curious, curious - also screwing with my read on what Sex Club may be up to.

@Kmd

, I think I've learned how to read you; come back moar plz so I can do that kthx.

Gah, RW wasn't voting much as the A&B and PtA wagons were competeing early on. However:

People seem fixtated on the idea that we should only lynch once per action block. This is how things work in regular games, but I don't see why this should be how things will work here. The more and the earlier we lynch, the less kills scum have, the better. I therefore suggest we try writing fewer posts, with more content. I'm not saying people should be terrified of posting, but saying more in fewer posts gains us valuable space. I think people should try treating this game as a form of Verbose Mafia, and only post when they either have a substantial point (which doesn't require the post to be long) to make or several small ones. For example, despite being an entirely valid point, this:

Gut read isn't as conclusive as a post of making a scummy excuse.

could've waited until he had more to say. And of course, "I'll reread later" posts and the such are entirely redundant. This approach may slow down the game a bit, but I think the gain is worth it and anyways our energy is more needed elsewhere.

That, and I think we should be much more lenient towards lynching than we usually are. Again, lynching doesn't cost us scumkills here. Wasting too many posts on not lynching does. So go violence!

DGB feels highly unnatural here, on top of being sorta useless thus far.

Vote Zaphod Beeblebrox

. The Apples and Bananas wagon is good too.

Um, wait. Here you advocate not wasting posts on not lynching, and seem to like the A&B wagon, but don't elaborate on either

and

vote for the one of us less likely to be lynched quickly? Tis odd, and by odd I mean shadyish, suspect.

alpaca's contentless posts do not sit well with me, and neither do A&B's.

vote: applesandbanana

A&B's overdefensiveness combined with the hypocritical attempt to shift the wagon onto alpaca make them seem more likely scum to me, but based on the interactions, I am reasonably sure that exactly one of them is scum.

Hold on a sec. Pity you replaced out; otherwise

WHAT THE HECK

THIS

HERE IS REAL SETTING-UP LYNCHES

. Ojando, if you happen to have any insights as to the thought process here, feel free to share them. If anyone can tell whether Death mean scum as in Mafia (as opposed to scum as in any anti-town-aligned player), I'd be much obliged; that's be useful.

Back to RW. After maybe trying not to lynch A&B so darn quickly, or something, whatever it was, he votes them to L-1 (they'd been there on and off for about that whole page) for 'being scum'. That's about the most explicit he got there.

"Feh, ZMD's most recent post is sparse and almost purely responsive. Everything about his post is watered down and galvanized only by questions. Even his case and vote are forced in order to refute ShaftedSex."

Har. Noting this observation for posterity.

Also RW, why did you unvote Yosariwen when they were still your top suspect??? Whence comes this new read on them?

Wait, shaft.ed attacks Yosariwen's case on RW? My scumdar, vacillate no more (please; it's very late at night). Also see his claim of a townish read on RW in the same post. Excellent stuff, the element of surprise, I must say.

On Zaphod Beeblebrox, I see the case being pushed against them as wobbly. I could see town do the 'gloating' at the sk lynch too.

For the record, there was one line in there which may have read as personal gloating which wasn't meant to be. It may have been read as 'Good, I caught the SK'; I mean 'Good, the SK has been caught'. If this makes any difference to anyone. In other news, I approve of Nybs' idea, I guess; I don't approve of her support for a Yosariwen lynch.

Recent events make me feel less confident that PtA is likely scum, more convinced that RW is likely scum.

[quote="Zaphod Beeblebrox"I agree with the above extracts from your post. I could definitely give a Trotsky or RW lynch a shot. As in, a shot in the head.

I am so glad you agreee with the above, but no where in SexEd's post did she indicate she wanted me lynched... Spin conversations much?[/quote]

'Oh noes, shaft.ed's subtle defenses of me aren't taking root in the minds of the town!'? Fair possibility. Hmph.

Not hating this plan, BUT I dont want to quick lynch people I think are town... I also would like to here what my partner says when he gets back, but, at this point this is the best scum read I have....

FOS: Trotsky
FOS: ZMD

No! Remember, even you noted that we're sorta on a post budget here! Always having your vote somewhere is especially necessary. FOSes with out votes are suspicious.

i haven't completely gone through all of the monster posts that have been made recently, but i will be getting together with my other head and doing that soon. a cursory glance up the page after this shaft.elvis death gives me a warm fuzzy about zaphod's chances of being a scumpartner.

Specifically, why are you getting this warm fuzzy feeling???

PtA, I see you don't feel that shaft.ed's post saying he had a town vibe on RW points to RW being his scumbuddy, but I can't exactly tell why not. Elaborate, please.

Unvote; Vote: Raging Wishbone

Possibly a better lynch than Trotsky (I need some converse with DGB on the matter), probably more likely to happen in a more agreeable timeframe. Maybe - here's Nybs' list with my edits:

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (0)
3. Zmd (0)
4. Trotsky(3): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD

9. sex w/ shafteds wife club(0):

10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (1): Zaphod Beeblebrox
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

[Saunt Adelaus]

Looking through my messages, I see that I've sent out some mixed signals.

"Possible Roles
All roles that appear in the game are from this list. Not every role in this list is used in the game. This setup will include 1 Mafia Group of 3 players, AND at least 1 Compulsive Vig OR 1 Sk."

the "OR" is exclusive. There can't be a vig left in the game since there was a SK, but there might be 1 or more additional SKs left in the game.

[Raging Wishbone]

Thank you Santa Claus...

*pinches*

"Another one Bites the dust"... I think it is safe to now assume A & B lied about killing FrogDodge and submitted a Sex wi5th Ed kill... Thanks.. Two down, two to go.... Hmmm.......

Umm, no.
I find it utterly strange that you are or pretend to be so clueless about the game mechanic when this has been spelled out to you already, IIRC after the lynch of A&B. SWSWC was killed ridiculously much later than 30 hours after A&B's last breath, so it can't have been A&B.
Either Frog dodging had protection or then A&B lied to piss them of or something. And we must still have someone alive outside of the mafia that can kill.

NO, NO, noooooo, lol OJ, this was not clear, there were some minor semantic wonderings and all. Nice try, but the Question has NOW been answered here....

Looking through my messages, I see that I've sent out some mixed signals.

"Possible Roles
All roles that appear in the game are from this list. Not every role in this list is used in the game. This setup will include 1 Mafia Group of 3 players, AND at least 1 Compulsive Vig OR 1 Sk."

the "OR" is exclusive. There can't be a vig left in the game since there was a SK, but there might be 1 or more additional SKs left in the game.

It seems to me, YOU are the one who was confussed and has been passing out bad information! I do think it is utterly strange the way you are or pretend to be so clueless as to the mechanic of this game... There are other scenarios including a Doctor, BUT have you not ever heard of Occam's Razor? Anyways, thanks but the rules are pretty clear now, no matter how badly you tried to confuse the subject.

Now I repeat my question that I have asked three times in this thread already, why is FrogDodge still alive? From the rules....

Serial Killer

You are an evil and calculating Serial Killer. Because you are so crafty, you are immune to kills other than your own.

[/color]

A&B lied or he did not! There was either a RB, Doc protect OR A&B told the truth and tried to kill FrogDodge but could not cause he is a SK. I'll get back to this...

I am not going to change my opinion of how off it feels for Yos to defend Nuwen, however I will give you this point they WERE scum in Alpha and I absolutely do not feel they are scum here anymore. Dude she kicked our asses in Heavens Gates, so for him to say she is inexperienced is off in my humble opinion. Regarding your further comments again me and Nuwen simulposted... My response was NOT to her aim logs...

Yosarian said that their case on you guys was originally Nuwen's read. That's the only thing I can understand you were referring to, this whole inexperienced thing comes from alpha and imo never surfaced in beta. Even though you changed your mind, unless you convincingly explain your thought process about where exactly you thought Yos was defending Nuwen ITT (with quotes) I'm gonna perceive that accusation as twisted enough to be quite scummy.

My post was a simulpost with yos/nuw... I dont need to "convincingly explain anything to anyone", we "Cross-posted".. Read much? I am not going to explain again how OFF it is for him to call her inexperienced after Heavens Gate! Regardless, I think they are the closest thing to town we have, why do I need to explain more? Wanna another wall O'Text, no prob (j/k, lol)...

Seriousley, you do need to confer with your BETTER half! Cause you aint gettin it done.

RW, I don't always expect great things of you, but your case on Yosariwen frankly sucks. I do not see a compelling enough meta argument to begin to justfy your vote there. Wait. Wait wait wait. I noticed that Sex Club was early on the A&B wagon. Where was RW? His random vote went there. Then Sex Club came along, then Pesco Light (now Nybs) then Trotsky (PtA, let this be a mini-analysis of that wagon looking for possible scum opportunism &c., as you asked; it was a reasonable request). This is all on page 1-2. Sex Club also attacked PtA early.

lol, meh I don't blame ya.... What part of UNVOTE do you not understand? It was a good, safe vote at the time, same as you...see I learned from "one of the best" DGB...she likes to just push buttons and form wagons to see who will follow...

Back to RW. After maybe trying not to lynch A&B so darn quickly, or something, whatever it was, he votes them to L-1 (they'd been there on and off for about that whole page) for 'being scum'. That's about the most explicit he got there.

What part of lynching an sk do you not like? Please enlighten me with your wisdom as I would really ike to know why it was not good we lynched A&B!

I agree with the above extracts from your post. I could definitely give a Trotsky or RW lynch a shot. As in, a shot in the head.

I am so glad you agreee with the above, but no where in SexEd's post did she indicate she wanted me lynched... Spin conversations much?

'Oh noes, shaft.ed's subtle defenses of me aren't taking root in the minds of the town!'? Fair possibility. Hmph.

Yeah, and the fact that she practically declared J-scope Town in that post did not enter your cute lil mind Plum? I bet it entered a few other Townies minds.

Not hating this plan, BUT I dont want to quick lynch people I think are town... I also would like to here what my partner says when he gets back, but, at this point this is the best scum read I have....

FOS: Trotsky
FOS: ZMD

No! Remember, even you noted that we're sorta on a post budget here! Always having your vote somewhere is especially necessary. FOSes with out votes are suspicious.

GAH, lol... No that was a manipulative load of crap wasn't it Plum? That post of mine covered, the previous thirty or so "long posts" and took a lot of fucking time! So please don''t try to imply because I decided to FOS instead of Voting for someone that it is scummy, lol... meh fine you want a vote!

VOTE: FrogDodge

Unless we can figure out if A&B was lying... I see no other reason he is not dead. I kinda would like to stick with Occams Razor.

@FrogDodge - Seriousley Dude, why were you so confident A&B lied or you had protection... you wrote in response (paraphrased) to his claim, "Dont count us out until we are dead". You seemed positive you would not be SK'd!

@Ortohoops and JScope still waiting for your screencaps so we can compare them to the Alpha game.

@OJ - Where did you get 30 hours from anyway?

[J-Scope]

@RW: What are you looking for in this QT?

If anyone hasn't read the end of alpha yet, I faked a few QuickTopic entries to make me look town. Here is the altered QT:



And below is the original QuickTopic with all the pieces I used in photoshop:



You can see that Post 5 was used to remake Post 1; Post 7 was used to remake Post 3; Post 8 was used to remake Post 4.

Post 6 was a messup because I needed the darker background color for Post 3.

The black censors don't matchup because I wasn't trying to hide beta talk; I was trying to get the right post lengths and also because I had earlier used the excuse on RW and Ortohoops that I didn't want to post QT's because there was interchangeable beta talk. That was a lie, but what do you expect from scum?

Anyway, now that the magic has been revealed I don't think we can rely on screencaps because they can be faked.

------------------

I don't think FrogDodge is an SK. It seems probable that he was protected or the scummy A&B was roleblocked. A&B didn't have a reason to lie but I don't think occam's razor points to FrogDodge as scum.

I think RW is the best lynch right now. I gave my reasons in Post 210.

Vote: Raging Wishbone

[Raging Wishbone]

@J-scope - I dont get it? You had an entire conversation by yourself or you just posted an entire fake daytalk to ruin any chance we had of catching anyone else? Dude my scum hunting techniques may not be the best, but at least I am trying... you seem to just want to lynch townies.

UNVOTE

VOTE - JSCOPE

[Frog Dodging]

I mean to try and pack as much information in as few words as possible. This post may be quite dense.

ZMD: No wall of text battles. Do not cut up my arguments. Treat it as a whole. In general, you failed to refute any of our points: you haven't given any real excuse for why you are posting opinions on some things but not others. You have given us almost no insight into your thought process. You strawman us a couple of times, particularly when you respond to us saying you should talk about other things than just the one person you are suspicious of and you take this to mean you should blindly follow. Why are you suspicious of x and y? Do you care if people respond to your questions? You are skirting by the waysides.

KMD is doing all the posting. It is not unusual for zazier to lurk. We expect a burst of activity from zazier at some point.

J-scope is giving me bad vibes. Not certain why he is focusing so much on his quicktopic thing - no one has argued with him, yet he keeps pushing it.

RW's accusation is nonsense. If you read the posts, you can see we did believe we were going to die.

SWSWC started the A&B wagon. After that, listed trotsky as a secondary suspect after PTA - this is noted (suspicious). Not feeling the PTA wagon as much any more. ZMD needs lynching. Don't think they expected to die - posts may reveal more, as they had not yet begun preparing to die.

I need to speak to my other half about yosiwen.

[Ojando]

@OJ - Where did you get 30 hours from anyway?

6. A lynch will occur when more than 50% of the players have their votes placed upon the same player, or have their votes placed upon Nolynch. After the 50%+1 threshold is reached, the lynch will occur regardless of any subsequent posting.

Kills will be posted in thread between 6 and 30 hours after I receive them by PM.

I will attempt to randomize the delay as much as possible to prevent date/time type confirmation of kill source.

This seems fairly self explanatory.

and frog dodging is not going to die. it has been 3 days since a+b claimed to have submitted the kill, and the limit is 30 hours. so ragingwishbone, you can stop pretending to care now.

This was pointed out to you already in post 140, why were you still confused about it?
The clarification from the mod was not relevant in whether A&B could have killed sex w/ shafteds wife club.

My post was a simulpost with yos/nuw... I dont need to "convincingly explain anything to anyone", we "Cross-posted".. Read much? I am not going to explain again how OFF it is for him to call her inexperienced after Heavens Gate! Regardless, I think they are the closest thing to town we have, why do I need to explain more? Wanna another wall O'Text, no prob (j/k, lol)...

Way to dodge.
Where did Yosarian imply that Nuwen is inexperienced IN THIS GAME? The simulpost has absolutely nothing to do with this, you talked about this in post 186, that was before the whole simulposting thing. A severely twisted accusation needs explaining even though you changed your mind.

Something a bit older:

d) "Once again; just to reiterate, the above post and the willingness and need for self-adulation of Yoso on behalf of his partner reek of scum trying to find a way to jusitfy their "existence in the world"" - I beg your pardon? This is probably the worst of the lot - it just doesn't make sense. That's not the way scum mentalities work. Scum do not need adulation. They are not looking to justify their existence in the world. I don't even know how you came to that conclusion

I completely disagree with this, except on semantics. Sure, scum might not want ‘adulation’, but they certainly want some credit for apparently townie actions that they do, otherwise they’ve wasted their time. Self-congratulations seems to basically be a scum saying ‘look at how townie I am’. Scum do have to justify their existence, they need to justify themselves as town, if they don’t do anything townie, or appear not to, they will get lynched, I don’t really understand how you could think otherwise.

For the record, there was one line in there which may have read as personal gloating which wasn't meant to be. It may have been read as 'Good, I caught the SK'; I mean 'Good, the SK has been caught'. If this makes any difference to anyone. In other news, I approve of Nybs' idea, I guess; I don't approve of her support for a Yosariwen lynch.

There’s a distinct difference between gloating and what I interpreted it as, which was drawing attention to an apparent town-move. Gloating is something anyone would do, trying to ensure that everyone knows that you’re awesome at scum(sk)hunting is something that scum would do or a townie under pressure, which you weren’t, as far as I recall.

No! Remember, even you noted that we're sorta on a post budget here! Always having your vote somewhere is especially necessary. FOSes with out votes are suspicious.

This seems like a stretch, he was clearly going to post again before we got close to another lynch. If it was going to continue and he basically ould have refused to vote, ok, but this was hardly a telling point against RW.

Oh noes, shaft.ed's subtle defenses of me aren't taking root in the minds of the town!'? Fair possibility. Hmph.

What? RW was questioning why you ‘agreed’ with shaft.ed about RW being scum, when shaft.ed said the opposite.

I need to talk to my better half, at the moment Zaphod, Zmd and RW are the most scummy to me.

I agree with the suspects my other half has listed here. Therefor the updated list looks like this I believe:

Whom I'm willing to lynch now (update it as you post):
1. Zaphod Beeblebrox (1) Ojando
3. Zmd (1) Ojando
4. Trotsky(3): nyballosulgniirkps, ZMD, Zaphod Beeblebrox
5. Ojando (1): ZMD
7. Yosariwen (1): nybaloosulgniirkps
8. Ortohoops (1): ZMD
10. PoketheAlpaca (0):
11. nyballosulgniirkps (0):
12. Raging Wishbone (2): Zaphod Beeblebrox, Ojando
13. J-Scope (0):
14. Frog Dodging (0):

PtA looks unlikely to be mafia after sex club flipping scum.
My first choice for lynch is Zaphod for reasons voiced by us in 225 and here.

unvote; vote: Zaphod Beetlebrox

[J-Scope]

@J-scope - I dont get it? You had an entire conversation by yourself or you just posted an entire fake daytalk to ruin any chance we had of catching anyone else?

What do you mean conversation by yourself? Everything after post 4 was made to help me win alpha. Posts 1-3 of the original QT were honestly trying to play with K-Scope. There never was beta talk with content and it wasn't supposed to line up to anything.

How did I ruin any chance we had of catching anyone else? What would we have caught them doing?

my scum hunting techniques may not be the best, but at least I am trying... you seem to just want to lynch townies.

I am not voting for you strictly you have the opinion that Yosariwen is scum. I am voting for you because you misrepresented why Yosariwen voted for you, and because you have brought emotion into your case from alpha which does not look like a scum hunting technique.

Are you saying that I want to lynch townies because I am voting for you? How do I know you are town again?

J-scope is giving me bad vibes. Not certain why he is focusing so much on his quicktopic thing - no one has argued with him, yet he keeps pushing it.

RW prodded me to reveal the QT in 3 separate posts. Do you think I am focusing more than was needed to by RW's requests? I did not intend to push anything; I think the discussion RW has carried over from alpha about QT's is unimportant.

Here is where he told me to post the QT:

Gee, J-scope, now that Alpha is over you can add in the details to your fake daytalk from that game, please do so....

Very cool Bro, please post a screencap, so we can match it to Alpha screencap?

@Ortohoops and JScope still waiting for your screencaps so we can compare them to the Alpha game.

----------
If RW isn't a viable lynch for today I would consider going back to PtA although they'd have to be an SK and I don't know how likely a second SK is anymore.

I don't really know how Zazier plays but I can see that she is very active in other games. I think more explanation is necessary on their activity level in this game.

I'd still like to see if Trotsky comes around and posts more. I feel it would be more of a lurker lynch on them right now.

[Yosariwen]

Awesome. Ok, on the one hand, me and Nuwen's gut feeling that the Poptajo wagon was scum supported is apparently correct, now that we now shafted is scum. I'm glad I refused to give into pressure and join that wagon. I really can't see any reason his scum buddies would want to bus him day 1, either, so while it's possible, I'm pretty sure Tajo is not mafia at the moment. Also, this is a bit WIFOM, but Shaft.ed's final post where he attacked me for attacking RW, and then defended RW in very vauge terms, make me happier about my RW vote.

The bad news is, between the sudden death of a mafia member and the clarification from the Mod that there are no vigs in this game, we've apparently got a second SK in this game.

Now, to respond to some stuff that's happened since our last post:

On Yosariwen: I hate it. Justification in less than 100 words for last page please. What was the point you were trying to make. Why so many words?

FOS

up to lynch it at any moment.

Excuse me?

I really don't think my posts have been wordier then normal; I've condensed what would normally be multiple posts into one post sometimes, but I haven't been wordier then normal.

And, in any case, this game IS going to have long posts. It's basically written right into the rules. If you can't deal with that, then I'm sorry, but you probably joined the wrong game.

I am curious about the other arguments you were trying to use in 154, because the REST of the arguments you were using to attack him seemed pretty illogical to me, and I would like you to explain them. Especally wher you attack him because he attacked Zaphod for not voting; "not voting" is generally a decent scumtell, and especally in a game like this where you should really be using your vote at all times.

Where did I attack her for not voting?

I have no idea, PTA; you should ask Ortohoops that, not me.

As I mentioned in that part you quoted, I was trying to get Ortohoops to explain their post 154, where they said, amoung other things, this:

Your case on Zaphod, quite frankly, sucks. It seems to be based on the idea that not voting scum = scum.

I was trying to get them to explain what they meant there, because I don't really get it. Looking at their post again, I may have misunderstood what they were trying to say, but I'd still rather they explain it themselves.

Also, since you're still asking about the random vote thing; I still really don't think I have the meta you're descibing, but if it helps, the first post of the game was actualy made by Nuwen, not by me (Yosarian). By the time I made my first post of the game, post 42 on page 2, I had a non-random reason to vote; if I hadn't, I probably would have random voted, just to get my vote on someone, which I think is important in this game setup.

I am not going to change my opinion of how off it feels for Yos to defend Nuwen, however I will give you this point they WERE scum in Alpha and I absolutely do not feel they are scum here anymore. Dude she kicked our asses in Heavens Gates, so for him to say she is inexperienced is off in my humble opinion.

I still don't think I've done this at all IN THIS GAME. If you're still talking about the Alpha game, I'm not sure how that's relevent here.

Yos, what makes me look cautious?

It seems like you were unwilling to scumhunt agressivly, until you were attacked for not scumhunting agressivly, and then you started; it looks like you mostly scumhunted in order to avoid being attacked, instead of because you wanted to find scum.

Being much more concerned with how you look and with not making waves then with what's good for the town can be a scumtell, and I kind of get that vibe from your posts.

Yosariwen, I need you to detail what about Sex Club's posting during the A&B lynch looked so notably pro-town, please. Also - you thought the wagon was either scum-supported or not opposed by the scum. Can you pinpoint what gave you this feeling?

I was wrong about Shaft.ed, obviously.

But, they had a whole series of posts where they was agresssivly attacking A&B for not participating, ect, that really looked like scumhunting to me, and gave me a good vibe; I usually consider agressive scumhunting to be a town tell. Of course it's not a flawless one.

As for the wagon; there was sort of a sense to it that it was...too easy. I've seen a lot of mafia games; usually, when town lynches a scum day 1, it's usually either a huge struggle, or else a scum makes a catastrophically huge mistake and his buddies bus him for it. Neither of those were the case here; the wagon felt like one of those easy, smooth, day 1 mislynches that I see all the time (and sadly often end up on). No one expressed any doubt about it at all, there was really no one that acted in a way that made me thing "hmm...there's a possible tajo scumbuddy".

I couldn't tell WHO on the wagon was scum, exactally, but wagons that are scum supported tend to feel different, tend to play out different, then wagons that are scum opposed.

If RW isn't a viable lynch for today I would consider going back to PtA although they'd have to be an SK and I don't know how likely a second SK is anymore.

At this point, I'm pretty sure PTA is not mafia, and while SK is possible, lynching someone who's probably not mafia just because they might be a SK seems like a bad gamble.

By the way, I'm confused by the second half of your sentance. We know a mafia person got daykilled, we know that it couldn't have been the SK who got lynched (because too much time went past), and we know that if there's a SK there can't be a vig, so there has to be another SK in the game, right?

[Raging Wishbone]

My post was a simulpost with yos/nuw... I dont need to "convincingly explain anything to anyone", we "Cross-posted".. Read much? I am not going to explain again how OFF it is for him to call her inexperienced after Heavens Gate! Regardless, I think they are the closest thing to town we have, why do I need to explain more? Wanna another wall O'Text, no prob (j/k, lol)...

Way to dodge.
Where did Yosarian imply that Nuwen is inexperienced IN THIS GAME? The simulpost has absolutely nothing to do with this, you talked about this in post 186, that was before the whole simulposting thing. A severely twisted accusation needs explaining even though you changed your mind.

I still don't think I've done this at all IN THIS GAME. If you're still talking about the Alpha game, I'm not sure how that's relevent here.

No worries, not dodging; here is the quote where it is implied that there is something unusual about their post...

Really don't like the misdirection in deferring the read to "mostly being Nuwen's" here.

Ok, your first sentance is complete garbage. Me and Nuwen were talking as I was writing that post, she made the observations, and I agreed with them. Why should it matter to you if the thought origionally came from me or from Nuwen? Why are you making such a big deal out of irrelevent side issues here?

So perhaps it is a semantics error and I was combining Alpha and Beta a bit, but the fact is this comment insinuates misdirection, manipulation or some sort of implication of Yos trying to put something on Nuwen. Right or wrong; I perceived this as defensive and as Yos implying she was inexperienced (in otherwords why did yos say oh that was Nuwen, if he did not mean to once again imply she only wrote it because she was inexperienced?).. It was an off comment on his part and reminded me of Alpha! I was not the only one who noticed something wrong with the comment... At the time, I thought it was a valid point, but not anymore. I think their im chats were pretty convincing in such a short period of time and they are townish.

@J-scope... at first I was rather concerned with your post for the following reason; whether you intended to derail my request for daytalk (considering it cleared yos/nuw as scum in my mind) gambit or not you should have allowed Ortohoops a chance to post before making your reply to attempt to ruin all credability in this as a device to hunt scum. You should have allowed others to post...

J-Scope

Thanks for sharing the tidbit about falsifying logs. This is townie points for J-Scope. Although if scum, he might just not feel like being bothered to create fake logs However, what do you like about Trotsky's Zaphod case? There's nothing there.

You and SexEd can say what you want about the importance of pm's, im's, qt's ect.... However me and RR are on page 61 of our qt's in addition to our pms on ms and msn conversations. Yos and Nuw have posted extensive pm logs for Beta...

I mean J-Scope did you post that quick topic to make fun of us all? You have 8 posts, you YOURSELF claim that is was original from Alpha, anyone reading the content can tell you faked it! I mean you "faked it so bad" it is hard to believe scum would make such a huge mistake twice?

At first glance I would assume that you meant to imply that there never was any daytalk, but then you clearly write in the "original" conversation with you and K-Scope it was different and explain EXACTLY where you change you and K-Scopes conversation to fit the Alpha game, hence there was an original conversation between you and K-Scope which lasted 8 posts... but what follows has been contrived! Anybody looking at it can tell it is fake. You follow up with a second post NOW and only now claiming it was never real... It is a complete contradiction.

You SHOULD have realized something important; although daytalk can be faked it is NOT nearly important as it is in the continuing conversation and in this my friend you FAILED, in my humble opinion!

Mod: Can we please get a prod on NYBalls, Trotsky, ZMD, Pokealpca, and Orthohoops

This game is extremely hard to read, however I feel comfortable with my vote. I could be wrong and look forward to more comments. RR should be back soonish from vla and I really look forward to hearing his thoughts. I could go for a Zaphod lynch, however I still kinda feel for DGB writing she was gonna quit mafia scum for being called scum when she is town... I still would like to hear everyones thoughts on the mechanics of this game in specific response to A & B claiming they tried to kill FrogDodge? Does that NOT peak anyone's interest? We only have 1 - SK to lynch and 2 more mafia, if we are al clear on the set-up now.

[Ortohoops]

It's very rare that I make a post containing a huge amount of detailed, carefully thought out, and extensivly explained analysis, to the extent that I just did, and someone's first reactions is "Woah, that post makes Yosarian look scummy!" So, yeah, I find your reaction there quite strange and unexpected. That's not "wifom", nor does it really have anything to do with my alignment.

This is still wifom for exactly the same reasons as previously stated- I do not know your alignment- it is your subjective assertion that your analysis was "carefully thought out and extensively explained".

It's odd, though, that you don't understand what I mean when I say that the wagon feels too easy when you yourself said almost the exact same thing earlier in the game.

A

different

person to me (ortolan) said that, I've already explained this.

Yos: my point against PTA in 154 was just that their Zaphod case as expressed there, was weak.

We think Zaphod is scum. They have agreedwith others/wagon jumped at times convienant to when others have been pressuring them.

Totally non-specific. The other point was that the fact they didn't vote an SK isn't inherently scummy for the same reasons PTA seemed to be suggesting, because they cannot be scum with the SK.

Frog: who posted 198 and 207 respectively (I'm guessing J-Dodge is the latter), because they demonstrate conflicting opinions of Yos. Are you going to stay that way? I know you tried to reconcile your opinion with your partner, but as a hydra where do you stand on Yos? You seem to be the only half a hydra who agrees with me about Yosariwen (except RW, whose attack on Yoswen was kind of internally contradictory).

What do you think of it in comparison to your will to go after post wasters. Do you believe that alone was a valid reason to go after A&B compared to the other reasons out there?

I have no idea what her opinion was there and can't ask her currently. What's the relevance anyway, we can't be scumbuddies busing the SK. And the little non-aggressive question in 211 to Yoswen by PTA is like pretending to still be a bit critical of your scumbuddy, exactly the same way J-Dodge played in Alpha.

I mean the only thing that scares me a bit is that you brought up that you had these intense aim chat logs, so you could have had half that post ready to go...but the rest was so perfect... I really think you are town.

Have you not yet been scarred enough by trying to clear people based on chat logs?

Trotsky is probably scum.

@Hoops, please post us your daytalks without the white blobs Sir, lol. now that Alpha is over you can discuss both games at the same time....

And you want potential role information about us why exactly? And you still think, despite what I pointed out in Alpha, and what J-Scope has acknowledged, that we can't just fake the logs if we want to anyway by editing our posts and wiping out the edit stamp??? This insistence on the chat logs is not only relatively unsportsmanlike, it has already actively hurt the town in one game.

I think Yoswen is scum with PTA and is trying both to derail his wagon and tie RW to him if he gets lynched regardless and flips scum.

Post. Rubs me the wrong way.

Brilliant commentary.

I beat the prod, please be wary with using them in future considering the nature of this game.

[Yosariwen]

Ortohoops; I have a couple of questions for you. If you've already answered these, please forgive me and just point me to where you did; I haven't been able to find answers to these in any of your posts.

1. What information do you glean from finding out Sex with Shaft.ed's alignment?

2. Specifically, does it change your opinion on the PTA wagon at all? Why or why not?

3. As far as I can tell, you still haven't explained much of your attack on PTA in post 154, even though I've asked you multiple times about it. Could you please explain again exactally what points you were trying to make in that post?

4. To the best of my undestanding, the reason you suspect me because you think I'm scum with PTA who was trying to protect him. Is that still correct? Is your reason for suspecting me completly dependent on PTA's alignment?

At this point, I'm getting a bad feeling about Ortohops. A scum, the mafia godfather, died, and yet it feels like that didn't at all change his thoughts on the game, even though it changed the opinion of most other people pushing for the PTA lynch. That seems odd to me, makes me wonder if Shaft.ed coming up scum wasn't as much of a surprise to him as it was to most of the rest of us. It also kind of feels like Ortohoops and Shaft.ed have been "working together" for most of the game; they've been pushing in the same directions, making the same cases; they both attacked A&B at about the same time, then they both attacked PTA, and they both attacked me for going after RW instead of PTA. They didn't directly interact with each other much, but it kind of feels like the two of them were working in tandom to pull the town in certain directions. It's also worth noting that there's also a possible link between Ortohoops and my other main suspect, since Ortohoops attacked me for attacking RW.

My main suspects at the moment are:
RW
Ortohoops
ZMD

(Yes; PTA is no longer on the list, and Ortohoops now is on the list.)

Oh, and to answer the one point he made:

This is still wifom for exactly the same reasons as previously stated- I do not know your alignment- it is your subjective assertion that your analysis was "carefully thought out and extensively explained".

Well, sure it's subjective. When I said that your reaction to my post felt strange to me, it should have been clear that that was entierly a subjective observation made from my point of view. Still, there's nothing wrong with that.