Mini 147: Warhammer 40,000 - Game Over!

[SinisterOverlord]

+++Official Votecount, V2.7+++

kleimar: 3 (warpdragon, Aelyn, Maximumum)
Aelyn: 1 (inHimshallibe)
Not Voting: 4 (mathcam, kleimar, The_Machine86, EnPaceRequiescat)

5 to lynch.

+++Transmission Ends+++

[kleimar]

Mathcam:

1) The second night 1 kill was not Pooky, at least not by the description of it. What claw does the inquisitor have? Pooky could however be the first night one kill. The second night one kill is likely Abbadon or Ghazghkull.

2) I am not certain. Orkz can ally with chaos, at least in the 2nd edition they could. However there is no reason why he would fight for chaos. This is of course assuming that chaos is the mafia. We could also simply have a mix of some of the bad races as mafia. So I think it is possible but by no means the most logical chose.

[Aelyn]

Alas, it's looking more and more likely with every re-read that the first night kill was the Throne.

Firstly, some inquisitors are notoriously trigger-happy, which I believe includes this particular Inquisitor - unfortunately, I'm a tad behind the Inquisition's storyline, and only vaguely know this character. The wave of white-hot energy fits melta-guns very well, and is very unlikely to be Ghazghkull's kustom blasta* or Abaddon's pattern Storm bolter.

The plasma weapons having no effect kinda makes sense, and the figure is more humanoid than a Dreadnought - which is what I initially thought the throne was, before seeing the picture. I doubt the first nightkill was Ghazghkull, now.

However, why would Pooky make a N1 kill but not an N2 kill? In all the games I've seen to date, all night choices come in, then they all happen at once. Perhaps the kill of the Inquisitor simply got higher priority than the Inquisitor's kill...

@Kleimar: In 2nd edition, Orks could ally with Chaos. However, in third edition and the most recent (third-and-a-halfth) edition, Ork were less anti-imperium and more... pro-Orks. They live to fight, and they'll happily fight anyone. Ghazghkull's the only Ork who really cares about organised attacking of other races, and even he's indiscriminate; odda are, if he's around, he's SK. Chaos is far more organised a group than the Orks are, and make a perfect mafia. The 'bad' races tend not to gang up that much - unless it's something weird like Abaddon, Ghazghkull, and Asdrubel Vect** as Mafia, and then a Necron god as the SK. But I doubt that. I still think there are two Mafia guys, especially given as we haven't hit one yet.

* I know I said rather contradictory things to this earlier, saying it was likely to be a Tyranid or an Ork. However, I managed to misread the very first nightkill as a shot impacting with the ammo crates, causing a white-hot explosion that rocked the ship.

**Asdrubel Vect (I hope I spelt that right!) is the leader of a major clan of Dark Eldar, which are essentially slavers. He's basically the definition of the word "callous", especially since his race thrives off the life-force of other species.

[mathcam]

There are several reasons why Pooky would make a N1 kill but not a N2 kill, not least of which is "because he felt like it." It's also quite possible that he tried, and got role-blocked or had his target doc-protected.

I apologize for my ignorance, but based on my lack of Warhammer knowledge, I'm not sure what the answer to either of my above questions were.

Cam

[Aelyn]

I apologise for my lack of clarity, Mathcam.

1) Flavourwise, it makes sense for Pooky to kill night 1, but there's no flavour reason for him to kill night 1 but not night 2. If he chose to kill night 1, it wasn't because he had to.

2) There's maybe a 5% chance that, if Ghazghkull is in the game, he's in the Mafia. 10% tops, to my mind.

[Maximumum]

I'm sorry for not contributing to the discussion but my knowledge of the Warhammer game is very limited so I can't speculated based on that.
I still think kleimar's claim is fishy only due to the fact of how often the claim has grown. A cop that can only look for an SK that can kill one night then roleblock the cop another night. The purpose of a cop is to give the people some info to work with, if the claim is correct the role doesn't give us much to work with. If I'm misinterpreting what he has claimed please correct me and I'll reconsider my vote.

[EnPaceRequiescat]

* I know I said rather contradictory things to this earlier, saying it was likely to be a Tyranid or an Ork. However, I managed to misread the very first nightkill as a shot impacting with the ammo crates, causing a white-hot explosion that rocked the ship.

isn't that what happened? I'm confused

I got a performance thingy in sacramento tomorrow so i g2g and probably won't get back to the thread until sunday.

[warpdragon]

EnPace- he thought the white hot blast came from the ammo crates exploding, not the original shot itself.

[mathcam]

2) There's maybe a 5% chance that, if Ghazghkull is in the game, he's in the Mafia. 10% tops, to my mind.

What assumptions are being made here about the make-up of the scum group? Couldn't it be, say, a big bad guy from each of three different factions, united as one to defeat "the good guys"?

Cam

[Aelyn]

2) There's maybe a 5% chance that, if Ghazghkull is in the game, he's in the Mafia. 10% tops, to my mind.

What assumptions are being made here about the make-up of the scum group? Couldn't it be, say, a big bad guy from each of three different factions, united as one to defeat "the good guys"?

Cam

Actually, thet's the reasoning behind the 5% figure; while it's theoretically possible that baddies from different races could team up to beat the Imperium, it's highly unlikely, as fundamentally most bad guy groups are highly selfish and consider pretty much everyone else to be utterly worthless in comparison (actually, to be fair, so do we. But at least we're right about it.)

However, Abaddon's easily the most powerful Chaos figure, and has implicit approval of all four gods as the main chaos dude. It wouldn't surprise me for his control to extend over one or two other big Chaos figures, and persuade them join his cause.

[mathcam]

I know I'm just picking you on here, but if you wouldn't be surprised, then why only 10% tops?

I'm only making this a key issue because this was the most likely explanation for the scenario that kleimar wasn't scum, so I'll need to do some serious thinking if you really think it unlikely.

Cam

[EnPaceRequiescat]

Is gazhgkull one of these big chaos figures that abaddon can coax to join his side?

I'm of the same sentiment as mathcam. If this hodge-podge of various anti-imperium bad guys isn't viable, then I'm thinking:

1: kleimar is one of the mafia (although I don't think a mafia would risk becoming a target of an sk, if there is one. Especially when not much information is availabe by day 2)

2: Kleimar is the sk

Any other ideas?

[Aelyn]

I know I'm just picking you on here, but if you wouldn't be surprised, then why only 10% tops?

I'm only making this a key issue because this was the most likely explanation for the scenario that kleimar wasn't scum, so I'll need to do some serious thinking if you really think it unlikely.

Cam

I'm really sorry, I've just realied the mistake.

See, a lot of games of this nature use the term "chaos" to simply mean "bad guys". However, in Warhammer 40K, it's a little different - there are three or four "bad guy" races, such as the Dark Eldar, Orks, and Tyranids, and the most important of these is known as Chaos.

Ghazghkull Thraka is an Ork; he's not one of the great Chaos characters. The big Chaos characters are Horus (The great betrayor, thankfully destroyed ten thousand years ago, but his legacy lives on), Abaddon the Despoiler, Kharne the Betrayor, Ahriman, Cypher, the Nightlord (I think, I'm a tad behind with Chaos), and a couple others. My point is that it's far more likely that Abaddon would team up with another large Chaos character, like perhaps Cypher or Ahriman, than with an Ork and a Dark Eldar.

Sorry for the confusion. I'd forgotten that most games say "chaos" and mean "evil", wheras 40K goes into rather more detail.

[mathcam]

Okay, I'm sold. Just too many things don't quite fit. It's possible that kleimar's telling the truth, but in my mind, it just makes so much more sense if he's scum.

Vote: kleimar

Cam

[inHimshallibe]

I'm going to put the lynching vote on tonight... you have until then to put up a last chance argument, kleimar.

[kleimar]

I fear that I am out of arguments inHim. I seem not to be able to convince you. I have no facts that I can reveal. I have no argument that I have not mentioned. I hope the town can still make something of it.

[inHimshallibe]

Well, here's a lynch, then.

vote : kleimar

I had my previous reservations; with the cloudiness of kleimar's claim and the recent discussion on Ghazghkull, I think the walls have all but crumbled around him.

[SinisterOverlord]

+++Official Votecount, V2.8+++

kleimar: 5 (warpdragon, Aelyn, Maximumum, mathcam, inHimshallibe)
Not Voting: 3 (kleimar, The_Machine86, EnPaceRequiescat)

"We must be alert!" kleimar said, urgently, leaning forward. "I, for one, have found out that Ghazghkull Thraka is among us!"

The various figures murmured amongst themselves. "How?" mathcam posed the question.

"Last night... I was trying to pursue someone, but I was attacked by him. He's trying to kill all of us... but he merely engaged me in a fight the whole time... yet, I came here to look for him..."

"What?" questioned Maximumum. "Make up your mind... you're saying a lot of things, many contradictory."

"I don't like this. This doesn't add up," warpdragon murmurred sideways to Aelyn, who nodded simply.

"Alright. I've heard enough," growled inHimshallibe. Standing, he strode over to kleimar, pulling a knife. Kleimar raised a hand to try and stop him, but moving swiftly, inHimshallibe slit his throat, not one person present rising to protect kleimar. His body slumped forwards onto the table, the cap decorated with the imperial insignia sliding off his head...

kleimar, Commissar Yarrick, has been executed.

It is Night 3. Send in night choices.

+++Transmission Ends+++

[SinisterOverlord]

Warpdragon was content. He smiled, insidiously, mentally reviewing the events of the day as he walked to the arranged meeting room. Things were all going to plan thus far... the imperial numbers were dwindling, with minimal resistance so far. The only concern was the mention of the Ork...

As if summoned by his thoughts, a green-skinned behemoth leapt out of a concealed doorway, barreling into the Chaos champion. Both fell to the floor, sliding through the empty room oppsite. With a shove, warpdragon pushed himself up and drew the daemon sword, Drach'nyen. He chuckled, the hiss filling the room. Here was an opportunity to end his only real opposition, right in his lap...

The Ork had risen, and charged in once more, yelling incoherently. Warpdragon swung at the oncoming figure, but his opponent caught the blade in his power klaw. Grinning, he brought the Talon of Horus around, and grabbed the greenskin by the neck. The assailant ceased moving, realizing the danger he was in. "Foolish brute," warpdragon hissed.

Suddenly, there was a massive, blasting sound. In his arrogance, the Despoiler had failed to account for his opponent's kustom shoota arm. Before he could realize his mistake, the greenskin had unloaded dozens of rounds into warpdragon's body, completely anniahlating his torso. With contempt, he spat on the gore covering the wall, before turning to leave.

warpdragon, Abbadon the Despoiler, has been shoota'd up good.

-

Meanwhile, mathcam quietly sat in his room. Runic ornaments decorating the walls, he sat in a meditative pose, focusing his sight. He could see clearly... he could see their path, what would happen...

But something was wrong. The doorway they were walking through looked familiar... and his vision, it was darkening... he could see less, and less...

Suddenly, the implication of that hit him. His eyes snapped open, to reveal the same figure he'd been watching, grinning and looking down at him. He had just time enough to raise an arm defensively before the figure brought down a huge chainaxe, severing him in two.

mathcam, Eldrad Uthuran, has been severed.

-

It is now Day 3. With 5 alive, it is 3 to lynch.

[Maximumum]

A mafia godfather gone...nice!

So, mathcam was killed by the very player he tried to protect. If only the dead could talk.
We've lost two cops, two townies, a doc and a vig...and only one mafia. There can't be many good guys left. Two mafia and the SK? This lynch is not going to be easy.

Should we do a mass role claim? With the theme being so extensive within our roles, and most of the good players already dead, it might be the best way to get to the scum.

[mathcam]

The...killer...is....

*slumps over dead*

Cam

[The_Machine86]

I'm guessing the first kill was SK and the second Mafia? If there's two cops, perhaps we have another doc?

[Aelyn]

The second was almost certainly Mafia. I'd recognise that MO anywhere; That's Kharne the Betrayor, or I'm a short-haired purple Fraggle.

I agree with the mass roleclaim idea, but I'd like to hear more opinions on it first.

[inHimshallibe]

I think it's time we claimed.

[EnPaceRequiescat]

Nice. One scum down (go 2 killing groups! :p).

We can be sure that there is a ghazhkull, and that pooky wasn't behind the first night kill (well, now we know there's an orc, whom I suppose to be the hulking figure from night 1)

the roleclaim idea doesn't sound bad now. We now have enough information to pick up on foul-smelling claims.

TheMachine? Thoughts?

I got a history paper, so more analysis later.