NY 215: HMS Erebus - Game Over!

[Completly Trustworthy]

What AI information were you hoping to get out of 222 dave?

[davesaz]

I'm looking for a thought process ( <-- see avatar). Is Saudade processing the thread, or merely reacting to it?

I think it's very unlikely that scum would want to alienate themselves. Being unpopular certainly doesn't make someone scum. That's a horrible reason to have a scumread.
I think that there are many scumhunting styles and just because someone's style doesn't match your own, or your opinion of what style is good, doesn't mean they're scum. What matters is the motivation, not the style.

[Saudade]

I don't think you understood what I meant by alienating.
read or reread his ISO and come back to me

[Saudade]

When you only question your fellow players but do not take an active stance yourself, yes it is in fact a SCUMTELL
as it allows scum to just cruise through days "appearing" to have intent to solve the game, when, in fact, they dont.

[Io]

I don't like your latest post dave. Given that one of Saudade's stated reasons for voting me was because I alienated myself from other players, it seems obvious he thinks I'm scummy because of that. Also, the other question is one that depends on someone's opinion and that varies with no correct answer, I don't understand how that adds to the game or could change your opinion of a player.

I don't see how asking for clarity is a problem, but you did bring up something i don't think you intended too but I think it pretty important of a point.
He's asking a lot of questions that really have no meaning or impact. As in he's asking questions for the sake of asking questions and not really getting anything from them. That's one of the reasons I found your post 36 a bit scummy.
I just went back through his ISO and noticed close to 75% of his posts are just asking questions.
Some are fine like his 3rd post, but a lot of the questions are just asking people to play more (posts 55-57 for example), and he also asks others for their opinions without really providing much himself (207, 222, and 111).

[davesaz]

No need to reread, unless you're thinking of something that's not the obvious. Feel free to quote something if you suspect we're thinking about different posts.
What would be the scum motivation for the things you see?

Pedit: Never mind, you answered. Here's a hint -- I consider

lack

of questions a scumtell because it reflects either a) foreknowledge of the answers, or b) a desire to make a push without having to worry about how inconvenient the answers might be.

[davesaz]

I'll pick one to refute.
207 is making a very clear point. Lapsa is scum. Why don't you see that? An answer would be appreciated.

[Io]

Really? I personally feel like asking questions is a scum tell.
The way I look at is that as a townie you shouldn't be the one going around asking everyone if they want to push a player.
You should be the one taking initiave and pushing the player yourself. There is no point in asking "What do you think about Lapsa's apparent need to sheep?" when you can just make a case yourself and point out all the posts he made trying to sheep.
Asking other people to push reads and make cases for you is stupid as a townie because all you're doing it giving up any potential town cred you would have gained from pushing a scum and allowing another person who you do not personally know the alignment of to take the town cred away from you. As a townie you're job isn't just to find scum but to also convince the rest of the town you are one of them. Obviously you're not doing it in a deceptive way like scum do, but you shouldn't be playing so passively that allows scum to take up town cred that you yourself could have.
Basically I find the play style selfdisruptive and counterproductive from a townie.

[Hugo Stiglitz]

sup fam. haven't read anything yet but just checking in. catching up now~

[Completly Trustworthy]

As I said earlier, I decided that Lapsa was probably scum and Popo town. I believe this because most scum will not make 98 since it limits their options by making any push on someone other than me in the future suspicious. It would be very odd for someone who really wants me policy lynched to vote another person and they would probably get lynched for not providing content in the late game. However, Lapsa has mostly been wishy-washy in their voting and
have changed their opinions with little reasoning involved. For instance, they seemed to suspect tictac or at the very least didn't like something he said in 53, then suddenly wanted me policy lynched in 73, only to later sheep someone else in 109. They've also made some shitposts like 162 and 181. Overall, they have only shaded people and voted for weak reasons.
VOTE: Lapsa
In addition, I am currently townreading Gamma Emerald because the progression from 77 to 189 seemed natural. Umlaut didn't seem more vulnerable to a lynch than Tictac, so I believe that GE is a town player really trying to sort others.

[davesaz]

Really? I personally feel like asking questions is a scum tell.
The way I look at is that as a townie you shouldn't be the one going around asking everyone if they want to push a player.
You should be the one taking initiave and pushing the player yourself. There is no point in asking "What do you think about Lapsa's apparent need to sheep?" when you can just make a case yourself and point out all the posts he made trying to sheep.

If I push other people to follow and they merely sheep me, we're betting the alignment of a player on my read being correct. And I get nothing to base my read on the sheep.
If I ask them to contribute their thoughts on the matter, I get information to read them, and the group read is more likely to be correct than an individual read.

Asking other people to push reads and make cases for you

I don't personally think of "what do you think" posts this way but I can see how others might.
It's about freaking time someone gives an actual opinion like this, instead of the eternal "that was bad, vote" response.
PSA: If I ask a question like that, I already believe it and am searching for agreement on the issue, without trying to browbeat people into it. I'm not RC by a long shot.

[davesaz]

BTW Io -- it would really help if you'd weigh in on the Lapsa read instead of questioning the method I'm taking to pursue it.

[Saudade]

What's your read on CT davesaz

[Saudade]

tell me what you really really think

[Saudade]

Wish Gamma would post some more he's the easiest person to townread ever

[Purrcocet]

thats gonna be a yikes from me dawg

[Nosferatu]

considering the amount of effort he's putting in he's likely scum yes

he looks scum but every time i try to lynch on of these people who do this they flip town. thats a vig shot not a lynch.

[Nosferatu]

Pedit: Never mind, you answered. Here's a hint -- I consider lack of questions a scumtell because it reflects either a) foreknowledge of the answers, or b) a desire to make a push without having to worry about how inconvenient the answers might be.

idk how to tell you how irrelevant this is

[Completly Trustworthy]

I don't understand why Saudade thinks I haven't given stances. I've given many reads and opinions throughout this thread, in fact I think I've taken more stances than many other players. Also, can people respond to 234? Do they agree or disagree with the points raised there?

[Nosferatu]

idk i think youre wrong but i also think you're town for making that vote.

[davesaz]

What's your read on CT davesaz

Give me your Lapsa read first.

Spoiler: answer

I see a scumtell from CT. It's different (I think) from what other people have on him. If I say what it is RN it will be possible for scum!CT to adjust.

[davesaz]

Wish Gamma would post some more he's the easiest person to townread ever

I find Gamma one of the hardest to townread. Mostly because I can't distinguish stupid bad pushes from scummy bad.

[davesaz]

idk i think youre wrong but i also think you're town for making that vote.

Does that mean you actually townread Lapsa? If so, why?

[Saudade]

Wish Gamma would post some more he's the easiest person to townread ever

I find Gamma one of the hardest to townread. Mostly because I can't distinguish stupid bad pushes from scummy bad.

Well then you are in luck because I'm here

[davesaz]

Pedit: Never mind, you answered. Here's a hint -- I consider lack of questions a scumtell because it reflects either a) foreknowledge of the answers, or b) a desire to make a push without having to worry about how inconvenient the answers might be.

idk how to tell you how irrelevant this is

Is that a comment on my opinion, or on me giving my opinion? There is a distinction and it does matter.

Spoiler: stuff

If you cared enough to open the spoiler, good for you.

If you think the position that questions are scumtells is irrelevant, that's NAI because it's just a disagreement.
If you think me giving my opinion is irrelevant, then I'm inclined to scum read that. Town (should) always want to know how other town think -- recognizing each other is at least as important as finding scum.