Announcement:
-Perpetuum has been prodded
Fair enough. But it does make sense to come out and explain now. So: who did you intend to pressure with your vote? What made you think your vote would pressure them? How did you expect them to react? What have their reactions told you?Lamont_Cranston wrote:I am hunting scum my votes (in round 1) providepressuretowards that end. It doesn't make sense to come out and say sowhileI'm doing it.
I've never heard of this "general rule". How does "silence = village" work, exactly? Can you show a reference that shows it is indeed a "general" rule.Lamont_Cranston wrote:The general rule is that silence = village on the BW.
How will a second bandwagon help anyone but yourself?Lamont_Cranston wrote:And towards that end, the village will be better served with 2 BW choices rather than one. No matter what you believe concerning me I CANNOT be BOTH Mafi so voting for a second choice will be very helpful.
It helps the village which also helps me because I am a villager whether I am lynched or not. The village is helped because if you have two good candidates for Mafi it will give excellent evidence based on the behavior of each player. The chances go up that you ACTUALLY have a Mafi in your sights -- so you focus on TWO people to lynch instead of one and this way its much harder for the Mafi to hide and you get the maximum evidential benefit even if you DO sadly lynch a villager.muzzz wrote:Fair enough. But it does make sense to come out and explain now. So: who did you intend to pressure with your vote? What made you think your vote would pressure them? How did you expect them to react? What have their reactions told you?Lamont_Cranston wrote:I am hunting scum my votes (in round 1) providepressuretowards that end. It doesn't make sense to come out and say sowhileI'm doing it.Of course my initial pressure was on ckool himself; secondarily on everyone else. Votes always provide responses and thus evidence for finding mafi. Reactions take innumerable forms and of course the best hope is some sort of Mafi tell or Village tell. I have found ckool not be exhibiting Mafi behavior. If he has fooled me he has earned it and I will not agree to lynch him until there is some susbstantial change in the current evidence. At first I thought that Johoolno and he were our two Mafi's for his overt and out of place opposition, but I have later come to think that Johoolno is Village as well.
I've never heard of this "general rule". How does "silence = village" work, exactly? Can you show a reference that shows it is indeed a "general" rule.Lamont_Cranston wrote:The general rule is that silence = village on the BW.Sure, it is a standard rule in Werewolf where I normally play. There are various strategy guides available and rule states that if it is all quiet on a lynch it is probably a villager that is being lynched.
How will a second bandwagon help anyone but yourself?Lamont_Cranston wrote:And towards that end, the village will be better served with 2 BW choices rather than one. No matter what you believe concerning me I CANNOT be BOTH Mafi so voting for a second choice will be very helpful.
True and even better you get to see how EVERYONE ELSE behaves which is your major benefitcpe wrote:I'm talking from relative inexperience here...
But two bandwagons means you're seeing two people under pressure and so getting lots of desperate responses from two people, not one. Basically more information should come.
Why does that even matter?Lamont_Cranston Post 222 wrote:No I was just noting for the record that I didn't push for his lynch; I voted for him briefly and moved on. I just wanted to make it clear that I haven't suspected him of anything for some time but that it was strange that all of a sudden he was joining this BW.Rustythepirate wrote:So people are only allowed to suspect those that suspect them?Lamont_Cranston wrote:You may have noticed that I ceased voting for you some time ago, haven't mentioned your name since & publicly stated the dynamics hand changed.
But here you are adding your name to a village BW...
Pressure isn't an infinite resource. You only have so much of it, and it tends to spread wherever it can. Both in physics and mafia. Two bandwagons means you'll see two people under less pressure than the target of a single bandwagon. It might lead to more information, I guess. But I seriously doubt it'll lead to morecpe wrote:But two bandwagons means you're seeing two people under pressure and so getting lots of desperate responses from two people, not one. Basically more information should come.
How is it harder to hide for the mafia if we focus on two people? What evidence would we gain that we wouldn't gain from a single bandwagon?Lamont_Cranston wrote:It helps the village which also helps me because I am a villager whether I am lynched or not. The village is helped because if you have two good candidates for Mafi it will give excellent evidence based on the behavior of each player. The chances go up that you ACTUALLY have a Mafi in your sights -- so you focus on TWO people to lynch instead of one and this way its much harder for the Mafi to hide and you get the maximum evidential benefit even if you DO sadly lynch a villager.
I'll share something I learned in my previous game: if you're truly suspicious of Sens, you should still be trying to convince us that you're right. Not wanting to argue with Sens himself is one thing. But if you drop the case completely we can only assume your suspicions were unfounded.Lamont_Cranston wrote:I think I've had enough of talking with Sens for the moment. I do find him to be quite anti-village and am beginning to suspect that in this case it means more than just his "regular" behavior[...]
Saying you want input from others on your suspicions is generally a bad idea. At best, it makes you look uncertain, making it hard for you to push your case. But people might also wonder if you have no suspicions of your own (e.g., because you're scum) and want tag along with others.Lamont_Cranston wrote:[...] but its only my opinion and I'm waiting for input from others.
There's always at least 1-2 Newbs who think I'm completely obvscum in these games. Look up my previous games, it has nothing to do with my alignment.Lamont_Cranston wrote:I think I've had enough of talking with Sens for the moment. I do find him to be quite anti-village and am beginning to suspect that in this case it means more than just his "regular" behavior but its only my opinion and I'm waiting for input from others.
muzzz wrote:Pressure isn't an infinite resource. You only have so much of it, and it tends to spread wherever it can. Both in physics and mafia. Two bandwagons means you'll see two people under less pressure than the target of a single bandwagon. It might lead to more information, I guess. But I seriously doubt it'll lead to morecpe wrote:But two bandwagons means you're seeing two people under pressure and so getting lots of desperate responses from two people, not one. Basically more information should come.accurateinformation.I've seen it used multiple times and it is quite powerful if set up correctly and its definitely better than only focusing on one lynch as far as gathering mafi intel/
How is it harder to hide for the mafia if we focus on two people? What evidence would we gain that we wouldn't gain from a single bandwagon?Lamont_Cranston wrote:It helps the village which also helps me because I am a villager whether I am lynched or not. The village is helped because if you have two good candidates for Mafi it will give excellent evidence based on the behavior of each player. The chances go up that you ACTUALLY have a Mafi in your sights -- so you focus on TWO people to lynch instead of one and this way its much harder for the Mafi to hide and you get the maximum evidential benefit even if you DO sadly lynch a villager.
Watching which player goes where and combining that with the lynch info & night kill info PLUS the info gathered from each of the lynchees, it just gives way more info to the village for identifying mafi.
As for chances, it's not just having at least one mafia in your sight that becomes more likely. It also becomes more likely that you'll have at least one townie sight. Don't you think that a double bandwagon will make it easier for mafia to manipulate townies into lynching the wrong person?If so it will be documented and identifiable
I'll share something I learned in my previous game: if you're truly suspicious of Sens, you should still be trying to convince us that you're right. Not wanting to argue with Sens himself is one thing. But if you drop the case completely we can only assume your suspicions were unfounded.Lamont_Cranston wrote:I think I've had enough of talking with Sens for the moment. I do find him to be quite anti-village and am beginning to suspect that in this case it means more than just his "regular" behavior[...]I have and am waiting for now.
Saying you want input from others on your suspicions is generally a bad idea. At best, it makes you look uncertain, making it hard for you to push your case. But people might also wonder if you have no suspicions of your own (e.g., because you're scum) and want tag along with others.Lamont_Cranston wrote:[...] but its only my opinion and I'm waiting for input from others.I'm waiting for opinions from others sorry.
It's even worse when it comes from someone who's suggesting we start a second bandwagon while he's at L-1. You come off as someone who's opportunisticly looking for the most likely bandwagon in hopes of saving himself.Sorry but a dual BW is way better for the village because the more info the village has the easier it is to nab mafi. I'm only passing on info to try to help which is about all I can do right now besides letting everyone know that its a mistake to lynch me bc I'm village.
This contains no content that can be factually checked.Lamont_Craston wrote:I've seen it used multiple times and it is quite powerful if set up correctly and its definitely better than only focusing on one lynch as far as gathering mafi intel/
This tell me absolutelyLamont_Cranston wrote:Sorry but a dual BW is way better for the village because the more info the village has the easier it is to nab mafi.
This is an attempt, at least. But no, it doesn'tLamont_Cranston wrote:Watching which player goes where and combining that with the lynch info & night kill info PLUS the info gathered from each of the lynchees, it just gives way more info to the village for identifying mafi.
Lamont_Cranston wrote:I have and am waiting for now.muzzz wrote:I'll share something I learned in my previous game: if you're truly suspicious of Sens, you should still be trying to convince us that you're right. Not wanting to argue with Sens himself is one thing. But if you drop the case completely we can only assume your suspicions were unfounded.Lamont_Cranston wrote:I think I've had enough of talking with Sens for the moment. I do find him to be quite anti-village and am beginning to suspect that in this case it means more than just his "regular" behavior[...]
I'm waiting for opinions from others sorry.muzzz wrote:Saying you want input from others on your suspicions is generally a bad idea. At best, it makes you look uncertain, making it hard for you to push your case. But people might also wonder if you have no suspicions of your own (e.g., because you're scum) and want tag along with others.Lamont_Cranston wrote:[...] but its only my opinion and I'm waiting for input from others.
The space between the two posts above is 2 minutes and 0 input/opinions from others. Yet they completely contradict each other. So tell me, which is the one that's completely insincere?Lamont_Cranston wrote:Oh but I forgot you don't care about lynching villagers its just the way to do things for you.
Confirm Vote: Sensfan
Ooh wait sorry, I was comparing:cpe wrote:muzzz: those two posts of Lamont's don't contradict each other as far as I can see.
He just insults SensFen in both of them and in both of them claims that Sens wants to lynch villagers.
WithOh but I forgot you don't care about lynching villagers its just the way to do things for you.
Confirm Vote: Sensfan
Hmm, well, there isn't a direct contradiction (between the two you were actually hihglighting), in one he talks of waiting in the other he sounds in a hurry. Maybe being at L-1 is making him act erratically?Thanks for sharing Sens call me a newb if you want but YOU'RE the one advocating the lynching of a villager NOT ME. So don't tell me how I'M the newb.
This attitude is almost a policy lynch for me anyway.SensFan wrote:Vote: L_C
I now support a lynch.Lamont_Cranston wrote:@sensfan: and so you support a lynch when I flip villager then?
I will also say that I have noticed that Sensfan has been rather abrasive with people that have inquired about his game behavior. If anyone else has noticed this and would like to vote him, I will join in that. Othwerwise at this point I am open to ideas.Lamont_Cranston wrote:I'll appeal to the truth thank you because you will have to deal with it when I flip villager.
Johoolno inquired about your behavior and you were very aggressive with him. You became extremely aggressive with CPE. Its almost like you are trying to place yourself above criticism.
If someone else sees this aggressive behavior as a scum tell then I am willing to explore this possibility. Otherwise I am re-gathering myself and am not sure where to go atm.SensFan wrote:Stop fucking appealing to emotion. It is HURTING your case, since its a completely invalid, illogical, and unfounded argument.Lamont_Cranston wrote:Well don't blame me when I flip village.SensFan wrote: No, I won't have to deal with SHIT ALL.
In fact, I will say right now, that even IF you flip Villager, I won't regret supporting your lynch.SensFan wrote:No, its not.Lamont_Cranston wrote:LOL wow that is so anti-village but I guess thats just you hey Sens?
You're playing on emotion, you're not playing logically, and its a lynch. I never EVER regret being on a wagon.Lamont_Cranston wrote:There are such things as "neutral" lynches when its like a certainty for the village to win lynching off of a list but other than that it HURTS the village to lynch a villager. The Mafi advances the village gets weaker. Its just basic gameplay. You just want to hide from the pain & the reality of it.