Mini Normal 2067: Musicals [Endgame]

[Alchemist21]

be more specific. what is the writing on the wall?

Go read my posts.

I did and I still don't understand what you're getting at.

Go look at how the claims played out then and you tell me how RCE isn’t just making shit up.

[Ausuka]

all that information was available d4 and yet you voted vedith for flimsy reasoning. why?

[Alchemist21]

Because scum are the ones who want to keep the “FL is scum” option alive, but fuck me, this game’s been on acid since that kill.

[Flavor Leaf]

I mean, Vedith claimed a hard guilty on me. I even thought he might’ve been town yesterday. Alchemist and I have been on every single wagon. RCE has been on none.

[Alchemist21]

I mean, Vedith claimed a hard guilty on me. I even thought he might’ve been town yesterday. Alchemist and I have been on every single wagon. RCE has been on none.

I have a few games with Vedith myself and have never seen him do that.

[Flavor Leaf]

there’s a princess in a tower

[4]

Baezu

:

Alchemist

21 107

Vorkuta

112,

HitAlt

122,

Ausuka

168
[1]

HitAlt

:

Slaxx

194
[1]

SLaxx

:

RCEnigma

96
[1]

Something_Smart : Something_Smart

7
[1]

Fuscosco

:

Vedith

92
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14
[1]

Vedith

:

Fuscosco

94

[2] Not Voting :

Flavor Leaf,

Baezu

156

everybody’s playing the game but nobody’s rules are the same

[4]

Baezu

:

Alchemist

21 107

Vorkuta

112,

HitAlt

122,

Ausuka

168
[2]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14,

Fuscosco

347
[1]

Ausuka

:

Baezu

222
[1]

Fusosco : Slaxx

340
[1]

Slaxx

:

RCEnigma

96
[1]

Something_Smart : Something_Smart

7

[2] Not Voting :

Flavor Leaf

250,

Vedith

272

Look at me, I’m the king of new york

[5]

Baezu

:

Alchemist21

107

Vorkuta

112,

HitAlt

122,

Ausuka

168,

Slaxx

424
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14
[1]

Ausuka : Baezu

222
[1]

Slaxx

:

RCEnigma

96
[1]

Something_Smart : Something_Smart

7

[3] Not Voting : Flavor Leaf 250, Umlaut 272, Fuscosco 377

For Alchemist to be scum, that means they all 3 were the only ones on Baezu for a bit, and they stayed there for a while right next to each other, and I don’t believe hat happened on Baezu...

I’m very aware that maybe Alch is actually just obv scum, but I think it’s worth discussing and going over.

RCEnigma and Alchemist have both been my main scum reads since Day 1.

My team that i thought was most likely going in after Fuscosco was RCE, Vorkuta, Hit.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think it’s RCEnigma.

[RCEnigma]

For the record, had Ausuka died, I would have lynched RCEnigma.

Tbh I was going to be on you at first but I would have been outplaying myself I think.

[Ausuka]

Ok FL if you want to fight this you're probably town so let's talk about this. Why do you think it's RCE rn?

The points I'm mostly thinking about are that

1) RCE has just felt like town this entire game (vedi thinking this too improves the strength of this read)

2) the way rce played d3 was a lot townier than Alchemist. rce engaged with d3 on a way better level like he cared about what was happening. he doubted your claim but also gave you the benefit of the doubt and didn't want to lynch you. he considered positions more and felt more genuine. in comparison alch just kept making empty useless posts like 1971 and 2043 and 2073. He never actually entertained the idea of FL being scum. He'll argue this is because he was obvtown for killing scum but since so many people sr'd FL you'd think he'd at least entertain the possibility he was scum. he didn't even read the games I linked when scum killed scum before I pointed out that one of those situations was parallel to our situation and, even after that, he didn't seem to reconsider his position whatsoever.

Subject: Mini Normal 1996: Mafia Hideout

Well, Tchill’s gotta die or else I have no chance at living. The town stated I have to shoot Tchill.

This has close parallels to the situation even if it's not exactly the same. Since his partner Mumble was mostly townread, the best thing would've likely been to take another kill and FL and Tchill would both be lynched. However he killed Tchill to back up a vig fakeclaim and town lynched both scum from that point forward. This casts doubt on the claim that he'd always prioritize his scummates I think.

He made a bad kill on Town as scum, therefore he would kill his partner as scum? That makes no sense.

This I think is an argument in bad faith.

3) his Vedith vote is horrible. Vedith's push on me and the unvote were extremely obvtown and he jumped on it, saying that it makes sense if he saves alch vs rce to lylo because that's the only way he wins? what on earth? that makes no sense. if it's a 1v1 he just lynches both alch and rce and wins. on the other hand; if he pushes rce today and presents it as a 1v1 he doesn't get to save it for lylo. getting the vedi ml first makes more sense.

4) his 100% certainty that RCE is "outed scum" d3 and then decided out of nowhere to vote Vedith is really scummy.

[Flavor Leaf]

When I made the comments about RCE and Vedith both trying to appease and Vig hunt, RCE even admitted to doing it, but in a different way. Vedith didn’t even comment on it really. Vedith is now flipped town.

RCE’s ISO when you put in Hit and Vorkuta are both scum show their cohesion and their trajectory, and how he was containing everyone.

2 days ago, RCE kept staying out of the hard discussion, and said things like “If it’s Alchemist and FL...” which is what vedith was pushing without saying until afterwards. Vorkuta hard pushed me. Hard.

There wasn’t a bone in my body that felt Alchemist would have voted me there that day either, but I was feeling like RCE was acting like he wasn’t going to, but would have “compromised”.

That then would have setup a Flavor-Vedith or Flavor-Alchemist mislynch path which was victory for Vorkuta/RCE.

RCE also said he’d dig into me if this was my scum game; I have had scum say this to me before in the exact same scenario, so that set me off. It was a way to gain my trust, which it does, but scum do that. I’ve seen it. ZZZX did it to me years ago, and in reverse, and post game he felt so bad. It’s why I like to keep my Moral playstyle for mafia, because you can play a little rough and rowdy, but don’t Heel it up that hard.

[Ausuka]

alchemist didn't vote vedith for faking a guilty. alchemist voted vedith for this.

...

Vedith what is it with you and pushing the people who have actually bagged scum?

I’m actually thinking you’re scum now because it works out perfectly for you if the 1v1 between me and RCE lasts until 3-p Lylo because that’s the only way you scrape by.

You were the only one pushing the idea that 2 Docs could exist here too so maybe you knew that was true because you knew RCE and I are both Town.

he voted vedith because he pushed a really obvtown player who couldn't be mislynched - that's not scum indicative at all. his narrative also doesn't explain why Vedith went from voting FL to me.

also the "pushing 2 docs is TMI" argument is really reachy. like, sure, it's possible it could be TMI. or he's town and just reasoned that if 2 vigs can exist (which a lot of people accepted completely without question including Alch) so can 2 docs.

[Flavor Leaf]

For the record, had Ausuka died, I would have lynched RCEnigma.

Tbh I was going to be on you at first but I would have been outplaying myself I think.

I believe you thought about choosing that as the gambit you had to make, yes.

[Flavor Leaf]

Alchemist had zero reason to defend me the way he was.

RCE would have voted me. It’s obvious by the way he was posting that day. He was just posturing.

If I were to have been lynched, Alchemist would have won, even if he ended up going down.

What does get me is he did call Vorkuta more likely stubborn town than scum, but I thought that too.

[Flavor Leaf]

RCE is the one that pushed the 2 docs is TMI thing by Vedith

[Flavor Leaf]

To be fair, I don’t think it was correct to entertain the idea of me being scum there. RCE entertained it because I was a possible mislynch.

I wasn’t a possible mislynch to Alchemist.

[Flavor Leaf]

I think the surface level stuff is almost town indicative, and I believe RCE played a decently manipulative scum game.

[Ausuka]

fl are you trying to talk to me or drown me out so you can get your way?

[RCEnigma]

I entertained it because I didn't know if scum killing scum was allowable. I didn't want anything to do with your 1v1 in either direction. I said as much, if it wasn't Alchemist I probably wasn't voting unless forced EoD.

[Flavor Leaf]

fl are you trying to talk to me or drown me out so you can get your way?

I’m just trying to figure it out.

I understand the Alchemist push, I just don’t really think it’s him.

I’m not trying to get my way at all here, I’m just not allowing myself to vote until I know, you know?

[RCEnigma]

I pushed town!FL day 2 because I believed it but wouldn't put it past you to orchestrate Vorkuta pushing both of us to speed that only one half of his push was distancing while the other half should clear you. Ftr I don't think that's the case, but you're now making that argument for me.

[Flavor Leaf]

I get why Alchemist is the “obvious” scum candidate, and I’d feel really bad if I’m just flossing over it.

I just think RCEnigma is scum, and I don’t know how to change that at the moment.

[Flavor Leaf]

I don’t think they all were on that Baezu wagon alone.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’ll post some of my updated work.

I learned to slam on the break

[5]

Something_Smart

:

Alchemist21

6,

Something_Smart

7,

Vorkuta

12,

Vedith

13,

RCEnigma

18
[2]

Fuscosco

:

Fuscosco

9,

HitAlt

19
[1]

Vedith

:

Baezu

10
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14

[3] Not Voting :

Flavor Leaf, Slaxx,

Ausuka

Step into my candy store

[4]

Something_Smart

:

Alchemist21

6,

Something_Smart

7,

Vedith

13,

RCEnigma

18
[2]

RCEnigma

:

ausuka

26,

Slaxx

51
[1]

Fuscosco : Fuscosco

9
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14
[1]

Volxen

:

Vorkuta

57
[1]

Ausuka

:

HitAlt

59

[2] Not Voting :

Flavor Leaf

,

Baezu

62

I’m just Michael in the bathroom at a party

[3]

Baezu

:

Alchemist

21 107

Vorkuta

112,

HitAlt

122
[2]

Slaxx

:

RCEnigma

96,

Ausuka

108
[1]

Something_Smart : Something_Smart

7
[1]

RCEnigma

:

Slaxx

51
[1]

Fuscosco

:

Vedith

92
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14
[1]

Vedith

:

Fuscosco

94
[1]

Flavor Leaf

:

Baezu

146

[1] Not Voting :

Flavor Lea

f

[/quote]

I keep coming back to Michael in the Bathroom at a party.

Knock, knock, knock, knock.

[Flavor Leaf]

I’m just Michael in the bathroom at a party

[3]

Baezu

:

Alchemist

21 107

Vorkuta

112,

HitAlt

122
[2]

Slaxx

:

RCEnigma

96,

Ausuka

108
[1]

Something_Smart : Something_Smart

7
[1]

RCEnigma

:

Slaxx

51
[1]

Fuscosco

:

Vedith

92
[1]

Vorkuta

:

Volxen

14
[1]

Vedith

:

Fuscosco

94
[1]

Flavor Leaf

:

Baezu

146

[1] Not Voting :

Flavor Leaf

[Ausuka]

Ok, thank you. I can't type as fast as you can and I can't keep up with you right now so if that's ok it'd be great if you could slow down a little. you're pumping out a lot of things very quickly.

When I made the comments about RCE and Vedith both trying to appease and Vig hunt, RCE even admitted to doing it, but in a different way. Vedith didn’t even comment on it really. Vedith is now flipped town.

RCE’s ISO when you put in Hit and Vorkuta are both scum show their cohesion and their trajectory, and how he was containing everyone.

2 days ago, RCE kept staying out of the hard discussion, and said things like “If it’s Alchemist and FL...” which is what vedith was pushing without saying until afterwards. Vorkuta hard pushed me. Hard.

There wasn’t a bone in my body that felt Alchemist would have voted me there that day either, but I was feeling like RCE was acting like he wasn’t going to, but would have “compromised”.

That then would have setup a Flavor-Vedith or Flavor-Alchemist mislynch path which was victory for Vorkuta/RCE.

RCE also said he’d dig into me if this was my scum game; I have had scum say this to me before in the exact same scenario, so that set me off. It was a way to gain my trust, which it does, but scum do that. I’ve seen it. ZZZX did it to me years ago, and in reverse, and post game he felt so bad. It’s why I like to keep my Moral playstyle for mafia, because you can play a little rough and rowdy, but don’t Heel it up that hard.

1) Vedith and RCE could have reacted differently to you for a lot of different reasons, for example their situations being very different genuinely. I don't see any reason to assume the difference is alignment indicative.

2) Okay I'm going to be honest. Their ISO is 538 posts. This is going to take a very, very long time to confirm and even then there is no guarantee I'll see what you're getting at. If you actually read through their joint ISO can you point me to key points in the game that illustrate the point you're making?

3) You think so? I don't think RCE did anything like that. He talked about keeping you alive due to sorting for night actions, and considered you being scum without talking about being 100% levels of sure like here:

You can straight face 100% say that I, as scum, chose to shoot my partner, not go to Lylo today, all for the chance I’d just live?

Um...yes. it's the flashy play. It's the play you brag about post game and tell everyone you can't believe it worked. RC does the same thing and gets frustrated that people factor things like this into his range. It comes with the reputation.

Honestly I think this play is MUCH better than Alchemist coming in and asserting you're town without really doing anything to prevent your lynch at all.

4) You're very likely right Alchemist wouldn't have voted you, he didn't really need to. I don't see how that makes him town, though. FL-Vedith is a winning path for Vork-Alch, too. Even if Alch wouldn't vote you, you were the only real lynch candidate at that point and his help wasn't needed.

5) I think either alignment could do that and don't really see how it points to RCE!scum.

Alchemist had zero reason to defend me the way he was.

RCE would have voted me. It’s obvious by the way he was posting that day. He was just posturing.

If I were to have been lynched, Alchemist would have won, even if he ended up going down.

What does get me is he did call Vorkuta more likely stubborn town than scum, but I thought that too.

Does he need a reason to defend you? Like, as an example, when I play scum, I don't immediately think, "I should call the most suspicious person scum"- I consider defending them too because it makes me look better on the flip. Once Alch commits to that I don't think he'd change his mind as scum. RCE said he could sort you at night and pleaded with me to vote Alch so I don't think he was just posturing. While you're right that Alch would've won if you were lynched, again his vote was in no way needed for that.

RCE is the one that pushed the 2 docs is TMI thing by Vedith

RCE brought it up. Alch adopted it and used it to justify his Vedith push, with an actual vote. RCE didn't vote Vedi.