Mini Normal 1917: :X Mafia (Game over!)

[Grendel]

Defeatist to me is a player that is screaming "woe is me" "Woe is us" "Woe is We" as loud as they can and not doing anything of actual content or meaning.

Yes, at this point I think my lynch is good for the game state, but I've not been uselessly crying about it...

Pre-edit

I'll admit that makes sense

[implosion]

Vote Count 3.9

Grendel (4): Hiraki, kraska77, NotTheRealPaul, CCC
Hiraki (4): MuttonChopMagic, Cheetory6, Backhand, gigabyteTroubadour
Vedith (1): Vedith
Backhand (1): Grendel

Not Voting (0): Nobody


With 10 alive, it takes 6 votes to lynch.
Deadline is at 7:00 PM PST on Wenesday, July 12, in (expired on 2017-07-12 19:00:00).

[kraska77]

I could case Hiraki,
my biggest hesitation is that if Grendel is scum I will feel dumb for ignoring kraska's like 100% confidence on him being scum.

I'm having second thoughts tbh....

[CCC]

Pre-edit

Why vote Backhand over Hiraki when Hiraki is the counterwagon?

Because of the two Hirkai is getting lynched in the future. Back back will probably slip past everybodies radar and into the end game.

There for I don't need to voice my suspicions against Hiraki like I do Back Hand

My current top scumwagon is you/Backhand (with second-top wagon being Hiraki/Paul). And of the two of you, I do feel Backhand is actually the more suspicious one - in that if Vedith is Town, then Backhand is a good choice for scum on the Day One NotMafia wagon.

I doubt I'm the only one to see scum!Backhand as a strong possibility. So I don't see him slipping past the radar. (Giga might slip past the radar, but not Backhand).

VOTE: Backhand

Its probably BackhandxHiraki (Like I've been saying the whole game)

Before the mass claim, I would have agreed that this was a strong possibility; but how do you fit this around Hiraki and NTRP's claims?

(Mind you, BackhandxGigabyte is not impossible).

Scum-Back-Up

Read my posts ccc

A scum backup to a Town role just feels backwards. Unless, perhaps, there's also a Town backup to a Scum role...

...actually, that does suggest some possibilities.

Hmmmm. Not

completely

implausible, I guess.

[CCC]

Right, the Motion Detector and the Backup Motion Detector could both be either alignment. For that matter, so could the Backup Rolestopper, so Vedith shouldn't be off the hook either (even if the claim was confirmed, which its not)

We

do

have that Night One No-Kill. Could be scum deliberately setting something up; could be evidence of some sort of protective Town role.

[CCC]

*@Backhand*

Results:

N1 forgot to watch

N2: Watched MCM and saw motion

I dont see who made motion on what so pretty much I can only check BT claims and make sure they are in fact VT :/

Do you really see NTRP's buddies forgetting to tell him to use his powers?

No, but I can see him lying to us about his targets. These claims give no new information; a Mafia Goon could have come up with them to bolster a pre-planned fake claim and be sure that no-one could provide counterevidence.

This is making me seriously consider moving my vote to NTRP instead of Grendel. Though I'm going to finish catching up before moving it.

[CCC]

Maybe. I think there's no way that all four of Mystery Rolestopper/Backup Rolestopper/Motion Detector/Backup Motion Detector are town.

That would mean we have (Very Strong!) 2x Loyal Friendly Neighbor (if that's even what it actually is, y'know?) (Weak) Motion Detector, (Strong) Rolestopper, and two Backups? No way, plus we can be 95 percent sure scum don't even have a roleblocker, else they would have blocked one of NTRP/MCM last night.

If Town does have all that, then it might be balanced by one or more Scum power roles. If roleblocker and rolestopper target the same person, then rolestopper stops roleblocker... but on the other hand, I don't see how scum roleblocker wouldn't be on MCM.

Paul's result claims that rolestopper wasn't on MCM... hmmm. If Paul is Town, then those results are genuine and rolestopper wasn't on MCM. Then scum is unlikely to have roleblocker. But if Paul is scum, then he would be lying. Rolestopper could have been on MCM and blocked scum Roleblocker.

Odds of scum Roleblocker are a good deal higher, therefore, if Paul is lying about his result. And, between the amount of Town power claimed and the number of remaining Scum, it seems perfectly sensible for Scum to have

something

- and a Roleblocker seems a strong possibility. (Another possibility is the inclusion of a Traitor - a Mafia-aligned player whose identity is unknown to the rest of the Mafia and doesn't get to join in the Mafia chat).

[CCC]

I’ve been bleeding town Since D2 but Giga doesn’t want to admit and stick to that conclusion because it won’t help their win-con.

Allow me to point to the five-vote wagon on you as evidence in support of the statement that you have not been bleeding Town since D2.

[CCC]

I could case Hiraki,
my biggest hesitation is that if Grendel is scum I will feel dumb for ignoring kraska's like 100% confidence on him being scum.

Especially considering that the last person Kraska was 100% confident on was Nero. Honestly, right now, Kraska's confidence is the single biggest strike against Grendel that exists.

[CCC]

*@All*

I'd like to pick at the plausibility of a scum aligned role stopper. I think that NotPual successfully visiting Mutton N2 is a decent indication that the stopper is scum aligned. As a scum role stopper would target their own to achieve a tempory ascetic modification, preventing a buddy from getting guiltied. I do not see a likely world where town role stopper does not protect Mutton, an ousted investigative.

Therefore I'd be wary of any rolestopper claims from uncleared players in the future. I would like you all to agree and come back to this point when and if a role stopper claims. Consider it a solid for me.

Pre-edit

Why is 1917 so important?

I don't see a likely world where Town fails to kill Mutton N2 without a Town protective role of some sort. (But it's always possible that we have both Town Doctor and Scum Rolestopper on the roster - Rolestopper could not protect a target from Doctoring without also protecting that target from the kill, and the Scum Rolestopper is a potential counter to the Town Loyal Friendly Neighbour...)

[CCC]

Why is 1917 so important?

october revolution

wrt the rolestopper that's actually a good point but then why would scum no-kill n1 as if they were building up towncred for their role but then not actually use it in a town way in future days while they know their claim will be under scrutiny?

Because they wouldn't expect to be caught? What were the chances that a motion detector would go after a claimed and confirmed PR?

[Cheetory6]

While I was signing up to play with CCC, there were quite a few players that I was looking forward to reading/watching this game.

I don't want to make you feel bad or guilty or anything, but you were actually one of the players I was looking forward to playing with the most.

Here's hoping you'll make a comeback later this game.

I don't know what I did to earn your interest in me but sorry for semi-letting you down.

This is making me seriously consider moving my vote to NTRP instead of Grendel.

Just gonna reiterate this to everyone else

How the fuck is this thought process town.

I could case Hiraki,
my biggest hesitation is that if Grendel is scum I will feel dumb for ignoring kraska's like 100% confidence on him being scum.

Especially considering that the last person Kraska was 100% confident on was Nero. Honestly, right now, Kraska's confidence is the single biggest strike against Grendel that exists.

I'm having second thoughts tbh....

Does this completely torpedo your reasons for voting Grendel then?
What's your read on Hiraki?

Pairing of the day can be CCC/Hiraki.
HBD Grendel I guess I'm trying again for today.

Hiraki case incoming.

Grendel Thoughts:

I don't believe Grendel tries to make me feel bad for not having my head in the game as scum here. That disappointment is just really genuine sounding and it doesn't really make sense for scum to be frustrated with someone for not playing their best? Like, I could see it, but it seems more likely to be town. Would take a special kind of player to voice that as scum here.
There's also the effort he's putting in while grappling with the idea that he's the best vote in the game.
IDK.
This isn't the most articulate towncase in the world but just, if we are going to lynch someone like Grendel we should have better reasons for it.
I don't even remember the reasons for why people are voting for him, that's how weak they are.

[CCC]

I could case Hiraki,
my biggest hesitation is that if Grendel is scum I will feel dumb for ignoring kraska's like 100% confidence on him being scum.

I'm having second thoughts tbh....

Okay, if

you

are having second thoughts then I'm going right off the Grendel vote.

UNVOTE: Grendel

This moves my top choice for Mafia to NotTheRealPaul/Hiraki. Of the two, NotPaul has actually been a good deal more suspicious today. His reads are... easily faked, and (as has been pointed out) his results imply that the Rolestopper has been playing in a distinctly un-Townish manner - it seems the simplest explanation for that is that NTRP's reads are faked (and the Rolestopper was on MCM last night after all).

Thus, VOTE: NotTheRealPaul

[Cheetory6]

VOTE: CCC

[Hiraki]

you're going to case me after implying a CCC scumread cheetory? really??

[Cheetory6]

I'm ISOdiving you.

CCC just isn't town.
There's nothing about the way he's pushing Paul there that's an actual genuine feeling thought.

Frankly think you're both just scum right now.

[Cheetory6]

Like, that reasoning of "kraska is scumreading Grendel is the reason to vote Grendel" and then subsequent unvote and swap off when kraska says she's unsure is so slimy.

[Hiraki]

which also means that i've been bussing CCC since day 1

[CCC]

Does this completely torpedo your reasons for voting Grendel then?

It does. and if I hadn't been taking the time to stop and think about who to vote for instead, then you would have already seen my unvote. (Grendel wasn't at L-1, so I felt I could take the time to think it through properly)

What's your read on Hiraki?

With the Grendel case torpedoed, he's on the likely scumteam. I think NTRP's results make him look scummier, but if I can't get traction on an NTRP wagon I'll move over to Hiraki. Alternatively, if Hiraki hits L-1, I'll be happy to intent-to-hammer and then hammer him.

Or if that case you provide is convincing enough to make him look scummier than NTRP.

[Cheetory6]

Why not?
Do you think that I think you're incapable of treating your scummates differently?

[CCC]

VOTE: CCC

...well,

this

came out of nowhere.

Now I want to see your cases on me

and

Hiraki. (And I get the impression you want to see my case on NTRP, right? There's a lot in it that looks obvious to me, but I've learnt that doesn't make it obvious to other people)

[Hiraki]

i think you would at least consider the possibility of my long term game as scum versus my short term game as scum

[Cheetory6]

How hard do you think you've been pushing CCC?
Like.
He's gotten two votes on a wagon on him all game. If you think that comes across as effective hardcore dangerous bussing to me, then I don't know what to tell you?
If he's not your buddy then vote him with me since you've apparently been scumreading him all game and the only other wagon that's going to happen here is you.

[Cheetory6]

There's also that I've been calling you scum for ages with various other people and this is the first time you've beetlejuiced in to respond.

[Hiraki]

yeah because something new happened - don't see you talking about the same thing with MCM