Last Will Mafia II (Over)

[Charlie]

You're wrong. I'm just sitting pretty here. KMD... not much to say at the moment.

Your strong attack is noted. Now, who are you voting?

[Fishythefish]

I was assuming Charlie's vote wasn't based on "clustering" because he moved his vote between people with numbers from 1-5.

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Battosuai (5) - Plum, Nachomamma8, kmd4390, holycon
Plum (4) - Fishythefish, esuriospiritus, Battosuai, kunkstar7
holycon (2) - Rhinox
Nachomamma8 (1) - Charlie

Not Voting (11) - Locke Lamora, Ythan, Jahudo

With 23 votes in play it takes 12 to lynch
Deadline is Thursday the 21st at 8PM PST

[Battousai]

I was assuming Charlie's vote wasn't based on "clustering" because he moved his vote between people with numbers from 1-5.

His clustering case was that there has to be scum in a cluster (1-5 is a cluster). In fact nacho is 3, which is in the middle. The fact that he switched from Plum to nacho (who he earlier listed as Plum lynch today, nacho tomorrow) and did not give a reason for nacho becoming scummier or Plum less leaves only the clustering as the reason he switched from Plum to nacho.

[kunkstar7]

@holycon: Is Plum your top suspect?
@Locke: Is holycon your top suspect?
@kunkstar: Are you staying on Plum or switching to holycon, now that she has a wagon?

I'm ready to vote Plum but am willing to hear about the other two wagons if there is any information I have not seen.

I am staying on Plum because she is a viable alternative to holycon right now, and a Rhinox vote doesn't constitute a wagon to me (See last section of this post). I see no reason in splintering the Plum wagon when they both are reasonable scum candidates.

Your excuse for voting Nacho is clearly stated and is bullshit. The only case you've presented that I have found, is that nacho is playing like he did in LWM1 and the scum cluster theory. Both are asinine.

Batt says what I'm thinking about the switch to Nacho quite well.

My thinking is, it seems unlikely chrono and plum are scum together, and all current evidence points to only 1 faction. Reasoning is, chrono seemed to have a very powerful role ability that evidence points to as being unused - so surely scum would try to swing the lynch to the less valuable scum, yes? Can't think of a scum role more powerful than an extra kill, so... I suppose there are some possibilities for which chrono's ability was used, and if it was, that would make him the preferential bussing target with 2 scums on the chopping block. There's no evidence of it being used though.

This was something interesting that I missed. Looking at Chrono's flip he was a one-shot Ninja, which to my knowledge is a Ninja to Tracker serves as the equivalent of a GF to Cop, meaning the tracker can't track the Ninja, as per this Wiki Page: Ninja. Where did you get that definition of Ninja? With my definition of Ninja, I don't believe that you could tell whether its been used or not considering the Tracker was Lynched Day Two, and I'm guessing that was the counter to the Ninja.

[LlamaFluff]

Locke Lamora, nachomamma8 and Plum

[Plum]

Yo.

[Rhinox]

This was something interesting that I missed. Looking at Chrono's flip he was a one-shot Ninja, which to my knowledge is a Ninja to Tracker serves as the equivalent of a GF to Cop, meaning the tracker can't track the Ninja, as per this Wiki Page: Ninja. Where did you get that definition of Ninja? With my definition of Ninja, I don't believe that you could tell whether its been used or not considering the Tracker was Lynched Day Two, and I'm guessing that was the counter to the Ninja.

Interesting. Alright, through what I said out the window then. I didn't have an official definition, I was just guessing. I thought nija was just flavor (didn't know it was actually a role), and usually 1-shot roles flip with what their 1 shot ability is, so I assumed 1-shot kill was the default ability when a qualifier wasn't present.

[Nachomamma8]

I'm here, just caught up in the weekend.

I'll try to respond to your re: Batt tomorrow, Jahudo.

[Locke Lamora]

Internet's back, I'm here and will be catching up right away.

[Locke Lamora]

Based on reactions to Chronopie's lynch and general game interactions with that slot, plus general scumminess levels, I would say there are scum in kunkstar, Plum, Charlie and holycon. I'm unsure on a few others that I need to reread in detail, but I'd say those are my top four picks right now.

Jahudo: yes, I think it's fair to say Holy's my top suspect. Having said that, I feel like I've been banging my head against a wall with her for half the game and it's hard to tell whether the flat-out contradictory responses she's been giving are scummy or simply an indicator that she has no handle on the game whatsoever and is terrible at expressing her suspicions.

[Fishythefish]

I'm being lazy in this game, largely because I'm pretty sure I'm already voting for my preferred lynch. I need at the very least to get a proper feel for the Batt case, and preferably also give some reads on other players I have something to say on. The Batt part will certainly happen today or tomorrow.

[Kmd4390]

Rhinox, if you didn't know what a ninja was, what exactly made you guess it was a 1-shot extra kill specifically?

[Rhinox]

viewtopic.php?p=2581402#p2581402

[holycon]

okay this is super quick not all what i was hoping to give for batt (and sorry for the lateness)

1. My main reason for Batt is his reactions to everything in that he OVER reacts to things when they don't go his way like back when we were lynching Richard he was getting angry because a few of us weren't ready to end the game quite yet and to me that doesn't seem very town behavior
2. this kinda goes with point number 1 but Batt has been on quite a few town lynches and as a lot of you would say scum would probably want to lay low but with reactions like number 1 i see his vote pattern as a scum tell
3. His tunneling hes always each day tunneling someone kmd plum and pushing there lynches very hard and not really giving a look at any other possible targets and this one probably also ties in with point 1 and point 2


Sorry this wasn't more involved I had hoped id have more time to give quotes and what not but the time just wasn't there and I was already late with this.

[Battousai]

To strawman your case against me... I'm stubborn and was on town mislynches?

Why are you against me tunneling on 2 unconfirmed roles? If they end up scum, and they will, won't that change your opinion on me? Also, I have not been tunneling all damn day, just yesterday and today AND ONLY ON KMD. Plum was null until I started looking at KMD as scum, and their interactions together. Yes, I found more scum by tunneling (when I branch off and call 2 people scum, is it still called tunneling?)

Sorry, but your case is almost (but not quite) as bad as Charlie's. Try again (actually don't, and vote plum).

[Kmd4390]

viewtopic.php?p=2581402#p2581402

viewtopic.php?p=2583329#p2583329

[Kmd4390]

Batt, the main thing that concerns me on you lately is the way you speak with certainty. I mean, saying "X is scum and needs to die" is one thing, and I do it plenty. But when you say things like "100% sure" and "if they flip scum, and they will" etc, it sounds like you aren't even willing to consider any other possibility. Town should be open to the chance that they are wrong. Scum already knows whether they are right or wrong, so they really can't be convinced which is hard (though not impossible) to hide. It looks like you are having a hard time hiding it. Even if you don't consider this for this game, take it as constructive criticism for your future scum games.

[Battousai]

... read some of my scum games before you put down my scum playstyle and relate it to this game (I have most of my games in the wiki except my most recent).

[Kmd4390]

I don't read games I'm not in.

[Battousai]

Good for you, don't expect others to read your games for your meta either.

[Kmd4390]

I don't.

If I want to prove a specific point, I'll show it myself if I think it is important enough. I don't expect people to go through an entire game for meta though.

If people ask for links, I'll provide them. What I won't do is say "go read this entire game and you'll know how I play". It's just not worth the time.

I may be biased because it takes me so long to read though.

[Jahudo]

I can't think of a scum advantage in Rhinox's posts for not knowing, or pretending to not know what a ninja role does. So the issue seems unimportant to me.

1. My main reason for Batt is his reactions to everything in that he OVER reacts to things when they don't go his way like back when we were lynching Richard he was getting angry because a few of us weren't ready to end the game quite yet and to me that doesn't seem very town behavior

I don't understand the example you provided. The only two wagons of any size were on town. Yes, some people were not ready to end the day, but I don't see any indication they were going to suggest a lynch of anyone we don't already know is town. Locke suggested SSBF was better, but he ended up being town too.

So why would Batt-scum care to end the day right then?

[Kmd4390]

I can't think of a scum advantage in Rhinox's posts for not knowing, or pretending to not know what a ninja role does. So the issue seems unimportant to me.

It's not about scum advantage's.

Or even pretending not to know anything.

I want his answer before I explain.

[Charlie]

I guess its good that we're discussing stuff and all, but without reaching a majority or consensus, (I mean >6 votes on someone) I'll point out right now that we'll never get a good lynch before deadline.

Looking at the latest votecount, I do not support a Battosuai lynch Today but I do support a Plum lynch. It is only natural that I:
UNVOTE: Nachomamma8
VOTE: Plum