NY 114: Mafia vs. Werewolves (Game Over)

[LimMePls]

Is it just me, or are Mason groups the first thing to get outted in these forum games? I've read three or four games now, and I think in all but one the mason group outted themselves day 1.

I 1000% believe Seraphim.

[askbob]

vezopiraka (4): askbob, Vi, The Goat, nhammen
Do you think he's scum?
If you do Why?

I said this back on page 3 or something. He basically pushed for SSBF to role claim. I mean seriously, that's ridiculously antitown. At least in my eyes. Give me a sec and I'll find the quote

[askbob]

We should be lynching SSBF D1 anyways, I don't see why it's important.

If you quick hammer me, you run a higher risk of killing a townie. Let's run Day 1 ful or at least almost full course before deciding on the list.

If your town why would you say this? You're like already dead. You can claim if you want

I think I found scum

,

urging a roleclaim before even getting close to a lynch

.

How?

He wasn't urging it he was saying he could if he wanted to

Until you give better reason for voting.

vote askbob

[/b]

wait wtf? He wasn't saying he could if he wanted to? I he was rolefishing. I don't know how you can't get that from what he said.

[askbob]

Contrary to what Leafsnail and Pomegranate have to say, I think a claim would most easily clear up this train wreck and provide a way to go further..

Wtf? How is role claiming ever beneficial for the town? Seriously. I understand when you have it down to there's 5 players left and one is scum.

But on the first day before anyone's even close to being lynched? This is either incredibly stupid or scummy.

I don't know your experience with mafia so I can't say which. How many games have you played?

[askbob]

Oh my fucking God.

Well, this is utterly and completely retarded so let me clear this up.

I am a Mason. Both Vezo and Daniel are Masons with me. I know that they are not Mafia. I am currently ensuring that they are also confirmed non-werewolves as well. I have no clue where Vezo is getting his information. I have no idea where Daniel is getting his information.

For fucks sake, you're an idiot. why the fuck would you claim and out both masons? I mean holy shit that has to be the dumbest thing I've ever seen. Why would you honestly claim?

[Pomegranate]

Askbob, tone it down.

[Pomegranate]

Well

Unvote

then. I wonder what's with Vezo, but I believe Seraphim.

the jump on daniel seems like the kind of awkward vote scum would make.

It was a "WTH are you talking about, explain yourself already!" vote. It was more a pressure vote than me really finding him scum. When I voted, I said that daniel was confusing me, IIRC.

[nhammen]

@askbob They had already softclaimed. Or did you somehow miss that? And there is absolutely no reason to cuss that much in your posts.

BTW, this explains much. First off, vezopiraka probably assumes that since Masons are only confirmed non-Mafia, there is a Werewolf among you. This is outguessing the mod, so not a good idea at this point in the game.

The only unanswered question is what information he has on LynchMePls.

unvote

until vezopiraka can explain the LynchMePls information.

[askbob]

Where did they softclaim at?

Also I don't get what everyone's problem is with cursing. For pete sakes its just words.

[Vi]

I feel sorry for you, stuck with 2 VIs as masonbuddies.

And I'll buy that claim because I don't see why you would've claimed otherwise.

This post. At least you're Masons and not Neighbors.

Is it just me, or are Mason groups the first thing to get outted in these forum games? I've read three or four games now, and I think in all but one the mason group outted themselves day 1.

Usually that winds up being the case, yes. Granted, it's partly because connected roles means more of a chance that a given lynchee will be a member of the group, but the last Large Normal I was in featured zwet-Mason. Hilarity did not ensue.

I don't know your experience with mafia so I can't say

[whether you are stupid or scummy]

. How many games have you played?

*politely points to the boxes beneath my name*

nhammen 257 is pretty much correct.

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@
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Useful posting: I'm going to go in this direction.

Unvote: LynchMePlz

Lynch: SGRaaize

(L-12)
Not buying his content up to this point.

[Chronopie]

I agree with

Jimbob

askbob on Seraphim's outing the entire mason group. Worst. Play. Ever. (exaggeration. maybe.)

--

The anti -mafia -werewolf roles were to be randomly distributed between town and opposing faction. So a mason could also be a cop.

--

Daniel did defend Vez (for terribad play) against askbob fairly early on. I can see that they'd be linked. Actually, Daniel was defending Vez alot.

Then there's this:

@daniel: Your last post looked really bad. Why did you made a bigger size and bold? And you know how I got that information.

As in, Vez is admitting that He and Daniel are in someway linked, have Night talk, and that Vez declared this info to his mason buddies.


Seraphim was the only one of the masons to not drop

Massive

hints.

--

Although these posts are out of character:

I have somewhat of an inside source and

I can tell you that lynchmepls is in the mafia but he's not werewolf.

And no I don't know this cause I'm scum.

unvote:vi
Vote:Lynchmepls

No I'm not some kind of cop.

Also I'm not sure but at least of daniel or seraphim should be a werewolf

.

To me your making this up but if anyone is it must be seraphim because I'm not.

(the red was originally size 24, rather than coloured, but I dislike overlarge text.)

How would vez know that LMP is Mafia but not werewolf (they're different anyway), but not be a cop. Also, the unnecessary "I don't know this cause I'm scum" is an unnecessary, terribad justification.

[Lowell]

I'd say saraphim's claim is real.

I'd go on to say these are crocodile tears, and that masons claiming D1 isn't a big deal.

[Vi]

I agree with

Jimbob

askbob on Seraphim's outing the entire mason group. Worst. Play. Ever. (exaggeration. maybe.)

...why?

The anti -mafia -werewolf roles were to be randomly distributed between town and opposing faction. So a mason could also be a cop.

...watt

---

I'd go on to say these are crocodile tears

, and that masons claiming D1 isn't a big deal.

Who are you referring to here?

[Lowell]

I'd go on to say these are crocodile tears

, and that masons claiming D1 isn't a big deal.

Who are you referring to here?

Everyone who has brought this up. I don't want to make a thing out of this, but it's a giant game, and having 3 confirmed town isn't the end of the world. People need to move on.

[Pomegranate]

V/LA until Thursday night/Friday.

[Chronopie]

@Vi: The unpressured Mason, Saying, 'Hey guys, we are the mason group, but I have no idea why my buddies are hurling around baseless accusations. See me get NK'd tonight, while my VI buddies generate noise, to be picked off at leisure."

obv. paraphrase.

--

As for the second part, I'm mixing up games now, another game I've signed up for has Dual scum (ww + mafia) groups too.

[MichelSableheart]

Third vote count of day 1:

askbob (1):

daniel94581

Chronopie (0):
daniel94581 (2):

Sevis, Leafsnail

Dr. Robotnik (1):

pman5595

Dry-fit (0):
foilist13 (0):
Leafsnail (1):

SerialClergyman

Lowell (0):
LynchMePls (2):

Dry-fit, vezopiraka

Midnight's Sorrow (0):
nhammen (0):
Parama (3):

Seraphim, Lowell, Super Smash Bros. Fan

pman5595 (0):
Pomegranate (0):
Seraphim (0):
SerialClergyman (0):
Sevis (0):
SGRaaize (1):

Vi

Super Smash Bros. Fan (4):

Chronopie, Parama, Unsight, Dr. Robotnik

The Goat (0):
Timeater (0):
Unsight (0):
vezopiraka (2):

askbob, The Goat

Vi (1):

Midnight's Sorrow

Not Voting (6):

foilist13, SGRaaize, Timeater, LynchMePls, Pomegranate, nhammen

With 24 players alive, it takes 13 votes to lynch someone.

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The time for nighttalk has ended. Players with the ability to nighttalk should refrain from doing so till the beginning of night 1.

[The Goat]

Well THIS game got really interesting...really fast.

@Seraphim...why did you out everyone under near zero pressure? And please, for the love of God, do not expand on anything else.

unvote

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@Mod: You said the deadline was Juli 4, 2010. It sounds like a mispelling. Is this how they say either June or July in The Neatherland? If so, clarify which one you're meaning.

@SSBF - What's your opinion on leafsnail?

I'll give him a slight pro-town read. His response to Parama on getting him to explain why I was scummy at the time was good and he is starting to contribute more. However, I'm not concrete solid that he's getting a pro-town read from me yet, as I want to see more out of him (As a matter of fact, as with most other people in this game).

Now a question for you: What is your opinion on Parama/Leafsnail? Both or choosing just one of them will do.

Why would you place a random vote when you had a better than random reason for an actual vote?

So why are you voting randomly, if the pregame should definitely be enough to get some real reads. You have a scum read on Parama, why didn't you vote on it?

At the time, I wasn't really certain that Parama was scum. As a result, I wasn't prepared to place a serious vote. However, his scum bar increased and I finally decided to move my vote toward him.

Now this is where I get to Parama's post against my case on him:

It's called a reaction test, and you failed. Yes, I lied. It should have been obvious because it was heavily implied I meant you. When you eased up after this I knew I had caught scum. You didn't even ask who I said I was mentioning.

Just want to say that lying continuously can get you lynched for Lynch All Liars. This isn't a bad enough lie that it qualify for the Lynch All Liars position (Something like lying about your role would be an example), but I suggest refraining from purposely lying. In that case, why did you heavily imply you meant me? How is easing up after a pre-game argument suggest you've caught scum? And why was it necessary to bring up that I didn't ask who were you refering to?

So you're denying that anything in pre-game is worth mentioning.
What would be the point of having a pregame then?

Absolutely not. What I basically said in that post was "It's way premature to campaign for a lynch pre-game, wait until we get enough information later on a Day before actually pushing a lynch."

And as it stands, pre-games IMO when allowed will always be important, especially in large games.

LOL. I didn't imply any definite times, and you act like I did.
Too quickly = less than 3 days
Too long = more than a week

Contradiction =/= exist

Okay, so I see your point about less then three days being too quick, but a week is not enough for Mafiascum to decide upon a further lynch. By then, a three-week Mafia day would have only run 1/3 of it's course. Lynching someone closer to the deadline would be much more beneficial.

Scum are the ones concerned about looking scummy. They act cautious. Townies have reason to act aggressive - it pressures the scum into slipping up. There's no reason to be cautious as town.
And you just admitted to being cautious. GG.

Townies are also concerned about looking scummy in people eyes because they know if they get lynched, it will only help scum and hurt town. Also, it is not clear cut to define a scum from a townie based on how aggressive they act. Scums can act very aggressive when townies can act relatively catious. Being catious should not be a scum tell as long as it doesn't hinder you from playing the game well.

As a matter of fact, acting way too aggressively can be dangerous. Look at the Horrordude0215 vs. Ythan argument near the end of Day 1 in Mafia 110: Hell in Michagan. Horrordude was getting close to lynch. He and Ythan got into a big argument. Horrordude eventually resorted to petty insults against him. Not only did it got on a few people nerve and the mod mad, Horrordude was quickly lynched because of it. He was a Vanilla Townsperson.

You didn't give any reason to suspect me - implying you had no reason to want to vote besides me voting you.

I didn't give reasons publicly on why I was suspecting you. I did say I was slightly suspicious of you at the time, but I did not have a concrete reason for voting you then. Look at my response to Dry-fit's and Pomegranate's response to me for more information.

I'm tunneling to draw out scum - it works in two different way.
1. Pressure a target to see their reactions
2. See what sort of crowd the wagon attracts

Both these can be used to get reads on the player being tunneled as well as the bandwagon voters. Very nice and it's working quite well. Though with 2 scumteams it won't be quite as efficient.

I see your point here, but the problem with tunneling is that it's considered a major scum tell by some people, especially of this magnitude, where it gets to the point where you outright ignore other people in favor of one person.

Wait, so he's your top lynch candidate, but not quite scummy enough for your vote? Huh?

Vote who you find scummiest. Which is Parama, it seems, at this point.

I'll repeat myself. At the time, I was suspicious of Parama, but not enough to place a vote on. I waited to see how he played later on and after seeing his posts, I was not impressed, therefore, I casted a vote on Parama.

By the way something I realized right after making this post but couldn't get a chance to post:
He builds half his case on me based on pre-game stuff, and then he says that pre-game content isn't very useful.
Hello, contradiction much? Also chalk up hypocrisy because you're accusing me of contradicting myself while you contradict yourself within your case on me. Yay!

I really don't see how that is contradicting. I already attempted to refute both points you made against me.

[MichelSableheart]

@Mod: You said the deadline was Juli 4, 2010. It sounds like a mispelling. Is this how they say either June or July in The Neatherland? If so, clarify which one you're meaning.

My mistake. The deadline is July 4th.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

@MichelSableheart: Okay, thanks for letting me know.

[Dr. Robotnik]

Unvote:SSBF.

Why would the masons out every one of them? Thats asking for trouble. I see the pros and cons to it, and I wouldn't have so early.

[Seraphim]

I explained because my masonmates were being retarded. It seemed required to claim. Also, I just found out from the mod that it's possible that my masonmates might be werewolves. Great. So much for confirmed town.

*sigh*

Lemme mull this one over.

[SerialClergyman]

I wish the masons had let the wagon grow a little before they claimed, it wasn't really in lynch territory. Still, never mind, them claiming isn't a bad thing, having 3 essentially confirmed townies makes for difficult NKs.

Vi and I disagree on reasons to vote leafsnail but we're both doing it anyway, I actually think that's a good sign. He is voting a mason, as well, if anyone's taking note.

Of those voting the claimed masons,

Sevis, Leafsnail are on Daniel, askbob and the goat are on vezo (and that's AFTER askbob had his little spat about masons claiming). Wouldn't be surprised in the least to see scum in there.

I'm also a little disturbed by Pom willing to place her vote on a very sketchy softclaim from vezo, and actively refuse further claiming. I don't know why she would do that as town. Obviously if someone has role-based info that another player is town D1 and they softclaim it, they will almost certainly be NKed that night. So you might as well hard claim and then we can decide on the merits of the info. To jump right in on the softest hint of a claim and excuse yourself from any hunting earns Pom the coveted 2nd most scummy.

[SerialClergyman]

Ah, interesting. In that case I wouldn't be surprised if there were non-wolf masons as well.

The question is whether we'll find scum in the groups.

I think given they're less likely to be scum (can only be half of possible scum) it's probably better to leave them for the time being.