Micro 764: Marked For Death #2 - Game Over

[Schism]

N_M is also an easy mislynch mafia can ride on for a safe lynch in D1. I am also not scared of voting him. I have better reads on JayElsa and Paradox who I think are mafia for actual in game reasons vs. Policy/Trolling.

Problem is, you townread them. So the question would be who is your second mafia pick? I'd rather vote that today. I can also promise you I can vote N_M if I'm wrong tomorrow but Im pretty sure on Paradox.

That's fair actually.

I'm confused on Paradox. I was as of my last reads list seeing him as a scumpartner with NM due to redirecting the wagon and suspecting him but not voting him. At this point, given that he's in survival mode trying to make sure the NM lynch goes through, I'm not so sure. He's certainly my go-to now if NM is town.

I see your suspicion of Jay. I'd like your narrative on what he's doing with regards to the NM wagon. That's the main unreconcilable part of the case on him to me. Do you believe:

A. He's partners with Not_Mafia hoping that you'll lead the town into a TGP lynch?
B. NM is town, and Jay is basking in the towncred for not hammering?

Also, do you believe TGP and Jay are scum together?

B is probably the likely option since JayElsa fears being Marked. From their point of view, there is no reason for their vote to be on someone they dont really think are scum and not on N_M.

Im starting to think they could be bussing off each other early with this shit. It would make sense late game if one of them flipped Mafia and N_M town.

Currently the only players I can reconcile as scumpartners with Not_Mafia are Schism and Jay.

The only problem with this is that North and other lurkers could be mafia and could lack any relationship with NMScum. I would probably townread Jay with a NMscum lynch though.

[JaydragonKing]

Well, I made a comment of being psychic as a joke because how the hell am I supposed to do that? Not like I know magic or anything. That would be weird. It's just a happy coincidence that I stalled the hammer because this game is getting interesting now with you around, Schism. -- Elsa

What makes you think I get town cred for not hammering, Mathdino? Obviously leaving it open has gotten people like you and Schism more invested to looking over the clues now while they are fresh on your mind. I'm not doing this because I'm mafia OR I'm town. I'm just making this game as fun for me as possible. -- Jay

[Mathdino]

Just for the record, I'm not really concerned with how you defend yourself to my suspicions, because any scum worth their salt (you, going by your last game) will shift/modify their game to be less scummy in response.

Unless I say something factually wrong, focus your energy on something else.

[Mathdino]

UNVOTE: Not_Mafia
VOTE: GoldenParadox

@Schism:

I'm not sure if we're understanding each other. If Jay truthfully fears being marked, then they're definitely town. Their stated reasons for not hammering are:

1. I want the day to go on longer to hear more people
a. for fun
b. to see what people think
2. I want to be scummier on purpose so I don't get marked tonight, because the game is more fun when I'm alive.

[Schism]

Well, I made a comment of being psychic as a joke because how the hell am I supposed to do that? Not like I know magic or anything. That would be weird. It's just a happy coincidence that I stalled the hammer because this game is getting interesting now with you around, Schism. -- Elsa

What makes you think I get town cred for not hammering, Mathdino? Obviously leaving it open has gotten people like you and Schism more invested to looking over the clues now while they are fresh on your mind. I'm not doing this because I'm mafia OR I'm town. I'm just making this game as fun for me as possible. -- Jay

Spoiler: Irrelevant

I blush. But Anna is better and Tangled is the better movie. Welp

Seriously though, thanks, glad to be of service to making this game more lively.

I asked you why you are on Paradox. You voted him because he made fun of your gimmick which you can related to RVS or Grudgevoting, which is unnecessary. Your vote is still on him instead of an actual scumread with no factual explanation, and that is why I am voting you, in addition to your Survivablity. I can not vote Paradox right now because of this, even though I want to, I really do.

P-Edit

please look at the above before I move to Paradox as well, I would like your thoughts.

[JaydragonKing]

At this point it appears my vote is what is making you scum read me the most. Don't really understand that, but I guess I'll explain. I WAS going to change my vote to NotMaf, but then he was on L-1 already. I WAS going to go for chesskid but he obviously wanted to be replaced, and with you I'm getting a good read. So when I put my vote on Paradox, he's still up there as a third scum target. There's no reason to move my vote in my eyes.

((If your gonna quote me saying NSG was a scumread of mine, that's been moved to null ATM. Need more stuff on that, which all of us will get on day 2.))

-- Mainly Jay, but Elsa approved

[Mathdino]

I shouldn't answer for Jay, but

"Not to answer for him" --> immediately answers for him

Jay clearly didn't want to hammer NM yet. My assumption is that they're just keeping their vote on TGP because... I'm not totally sure now that I reread.

Elsa: Your too worried about the little things.

Following my heart and hanging this man will benefit us regardless of his alignment

. It will work out for the both of us!

This is pretty bad and is the survival stuff I was talking about.

Keep in mind that NM also has his vote on someone he's townreading but we're giving him a pass on Playstyle. I'm still not sold that Jay's isn't just too-scummy-to-be-scum new-to-MS behaviour. We don't have a towngame on Jay and we probably won't at the very least until ongoing games complete.

I don't have any thoughts on a scummy player being on a wagon I like for bad reasons. That sort of thing doesn't really make me uncomfortable. For all I know it could just be town unintentionally making the right move.

Edit:

Jay

, I'd like a reads list from you as soon as you can get one. Even if a lot of players are null, just do the thing where you talk about everyone a bit.

[Mathdino]

Jay's response is consistent with what I already assumed. MAKING the vote was bad, I agree, but KEEPING the vote I don't think is alignment indicative. If I were similarly deadset on not hammering yet, I'd be doing the same thing.

[Schism]

Why have 3 votes when you can have 4?

VOTE: Mathdino

Keep in mind that NM also has his vote on someone he's townreading but we're giving him a pass on Playstyle.

Part of me wonders if he even remembers hes still on an RVS Vote . But maybe this is a good thing since if he was voting JayElsa or Paradox right now, it would probably affect the reads of the voted.

Jay clearly didn't want to hammer NM yet. My assumption is that they're just keeping their vote on TGP because... I'm not totally sure now that I reread.

thats why im voting.

((If your gonna quote me saying NSG was a scumread of mine, that's been moved to null ATM. Need more stuff on that, which all of us will get on day 2.))

Do you have an actual scumread of anyone that isnt a troll (NM and Chesskid)?

[JaydragonKing]

Elsa and Jay's catalog of players, in alphabetical order!

Gamma Emerald - nickname(s): Gamma

Chill guy who will probably crack a cold one with the boys. Probably town. -- Elsa

Seems like he'll let others lead the flow and make important decisions, and decide who to follow then. Leaning Town. -- Jay

Mathdino - nickname(s): Dino

Thought he was trying too hard for a Lynch earlier, but now I see he's just a stick in the mud. -- Elsa

Honestly, his viewpoints keep changing little by little, so I'm leaning Town, but he could be faking. -- Jay

Northsidegal - nickname(s): NSG, North

She's cute and silent. And seems to not have a strong opinion on everything. And cute. -- Elsa

I really don't have much now besides her "double vote" play, as Dino called it, at the first two pages. Null currently. -- Jay

Not_Mafia - nickname(s): NotMaf, NM, N_M

Funny guy, that one. Love his new icon with the Christmas hat. Still not a good townie, though. -- Elsa

Obviously suspicious too everyone, and while I think he's a logical choice for a Lynch, I got someone else in mind. -- Jay

Schism (formally the spot of chesskid3) - nickname(s): None.

He's loud and proud. Already doing more then that chesskid fellow. Probably a townie, though not saying he's not evil. -- Elsa

Still forming a proper opinion, but he's a good verbal sparring partner. Other then myself, I hope he's not marked. -- Jay

Shawn Spencer - nickname(s): Shawn

He was funny but he went radio silent. Is he getting replaced too? That would suck. -- Elsa

I have nothing on him except that he agreed with me and Elsa. Would read him as town if he was actually here. -- Jay

TheGoldenParadox - nickname(s): Golden, Paradox, Para, TGP

Honestly he still gives me a weird feeling that I've had since the beginning when he got mad at me saying "fuck" -- Elsa

If I had to choose between the case against NotMaf and the case against Paradox, I'd easily choose Paradox. -- Jay

[Mathdino]

Your scumreads are Not_Mafia and TGP? Do you believe they're a team together?

[Mathdino]

I wasn't. That was a joke lol.
9 is idotic because it shows Elsa saying the f word for no reason out of the blue. Was that meant to scare us or what?

What's wrong with saying fuck?

Nothing wrong with it; just no reason to randomly post a post that shows a children's movie character swearing. Disorienting, I don't think it was funny, and it certainly distracted us. That might have been what she wanted to do to distract us and get the attention off of her.

You're on your own on this one mate

Speaking of that moment, here's some nice hi-quality untainted interaction between the 3 of our top scumspects that we probably won't get again. In which:

TGP barrels after Jay
NM defends Jay against TGP
Jay solidifies the TGP wagon
Jay jumps onto NM
TGP makes fun of Jay
Jay jumps back on the TGP wagon
TGP goes after NM

I'm not confident that there's a scumteam in the 3 of these. This is some weird interaction.

[Schism]

For those at home that want the condensed Version of JayElsa's Reads:

Town:
Gamma
Shawn

Null:
Dino (Town)
Schism (Town)
North

Scum:
Paradox????
NM????

Her scumreads are weak. Really weak. In fact, theres no mention of the word "Scum" in there.

Its important to ask if JayElsa is a Gimmick, Hyrda, or something serious, because there should not be various reads from a single poster in a game of mafia.

This is bad IMO. Worst than Para.

[JaydragonKing]

Jay: Since your so concerned, I'm a role-player and I'm one person. Just so we're on the same page.

Elsa: You have too admit, his concern was appropriate, though admittedly funny.

Literally the same thing applies to that statement that I made too Dino at the beginning.

Also to be clear: I read Paradox as scum, but I see NotMaf as a good Lynch. Related subjects, but still different.

[Schism]

Honestly he still gives me a weird feeling that I've had since the beginning when he got mad at me saying "fuck" -- Elsa

If I had to choose between the case against NotMaf and the case against Paradox, I'd easily choose Paradox. -- Jay

And

Funny guy, that one. Love his new icon with the Christmas hat. Still not a good townie, though. -- Elsa

Obviously suspicious too everyone, and while I think he's a logical choice for a Lynch, I got someone else in mind. -- Jay

Are not strong tellings of your reads. This sounds like "Meh, sure hes scum, lets go with that"

With this and Dino's "Policy NM D1" I hope North and Shawn really bring some in-game reads to the game.

[Gamma Emerald]

Schism, are you an alt cuz you sound familiar.

[Mathdino]

Her scumreads are weak. Really weak. In fact, theres no mention of the word "Scum" in there.

Don't fall into the bad at scum hunting = scum trap. Jay is under a lot of fire, if he wanted to make a reads list that didn't suck, he easily could've by throwing away a scumread at Shawn or you. This falls along the lines of not seeing peoples responses to suspicion as alignment indicative unless there's a smoking gun. He really reads to me as a player unfamiliar with the mafiascum way.

I'm just not seeing the Jay case like you do. If we do lynch them I'd rather it be later in the game.

My body is ready for a Paradox L-1 though.

[Toto]

Official Vote Count

TheGoldenParadox

(3): northsidegal, JaydragonKing, Mathdino

Not_Mafia

(3): Shawn Spencer, Gamma Emerald, TheGoldenParadox

Mathdino

(1): Not_Mafia

JaydragonKing

(1): Schism

Not Voting

(0):

None.

With 8 alive, it takes 5 to lynch.

Deadline

: (expired on 2017-12-28 06:00:00)

Mod Notes:

- Sending a prod PM to Shawn Spencer
- NSG on V/LA until friday.

[Mathdino]

Bored, on vacation, and today's the last day that this will be my only game. I've been thinking about reading in terms of motives, between town (usually confused) and scum (usually deliberate). So a couple things from rereading ISOs:

JaydragonKing:

I'm at the point of being straight unwilling to lynch Jay today. A few things just don't make sense to me from a scum perspective. The major thing is the flip-flop on NSG -- NSG was being townread at the point of initial scumread and was acting pretty townish. There's no point in doing this and then later revising to say "yeah never mind NSG isn't a scumread anymore", especially when we're giving Jay shit for not having scumreads. I believe Jay's play makes much more sense as completely directionless town.

GoldenParadox:

See this actually makes somewhat more sense as scum play. Here are a few major problems I have:
- 30: Takes the Jay bait that I specifically set on D1. Going through the motions scumhunting.
- Continues to barrel after Jay until NM and I make it clear that's a bad wagon
- 81: And backpedals off it self-consciously.
- 112: Sheeps my chesskid read from 98 in another going-through-the-motions-scumhunting post.
- 119: Lifts literally my entire reads list with nothing original
- (too lazy to find posts): Tries to fan more flames for a chesskid wagon and backs it off while making a magnanimous "oh let's give the new guy a chance"
- Doubles down on the NM wagon as an alternative to his own.

I'm ignoring the stuff after people start attacking him because I don't really care about defences, but notable is him lining up a lynch on Schism.

He repeatedly goes after low hanging fruit in a way that makes total sense if Jay, NM, and Schism are all town. This is all in addition to sheeping the general views of the most commonly townread player (hey). Then starts complaining that he hasn't hurt town. I think this should be today's lynch.

Schism:

Beginning to feel off about his posts, which is unfortunate since he's definitely an experienced/charismatic player. I'm going to assume for this part that TGP flips town because I don't think Schism vs TGP is bussing. I believe Schism saw that NM would probably be the lynch and decided to try to cash in on towncred for not being on that wagon. He could then mark me, reasonably push the TGP/Jay duo on D2 and D3, and win.

I would argue in terms of scumminess by tone, the scummiest players in the game are in order Not_Mafia, GoldenParadox, and Jay. By pushing the 3rd scummiest, Schism can remain off the big mislynches (NM/TGP) and always have another mislynch target lined up. Scum motivation makes a lot of sense here. If TGP is town, it's entirely logical for him to be pushing Schism.

Gamma:

Similarly, if NM or TGP is town, Gamma looks pretty bad for making TGP a major focus of D1, getting the towncred for not pouncing on the NM wagon, and then hopping on it anyway when NM fucked up. I could very very easily see a Schism/Gamma scumteam.

Modified reads list:

NSG:

Please get back here and help me out lol you're my only unconditional townread

Jay:

Back to townreading this. My gut now has reasons behind it.
Gamma: Drops a spot. Possible lynch if TGP/NM is town.
Shawn: Not much to go off of. Possible scumpartner of TGP.
Not_Mafia: Yeah I changed my mind, crucify me. We should still lynch for unreadability if we run out of other targets. Probably not a TGP/Jay scumpartner.

Schism:

Looking pretty bad if TGP/NM is town.

TGP:

Everything seems to have scum motivation behind it.

[Shawn Spencer]

I’m pretty confident that Paradox is town.. my vibes don’t lie

Not Mafia only playing when he’s pressure indicates scum

[JaydragonKing]

I'm glad your back, Shawn, but if you would like to elaborate on all your vibes, that would be nice. Mainly the other five players. (Myself included)

[Mathdino]

I'm glad your back, Shawn, but if you would like to elaborate on all your vibes, that would be nice. Mainly the other five players. (Myself included)

sup
work harder
find me a scumpartner for TGP
your reads list isn't great tbh

[JaydragonKing]

Your making me feel like your student who didn't do their assignment well enough, but I'm not hopeless enough that you just want me to fail. And trust me, I got that a lot in school.

[Gamma Emerald]

Checking out, won't be here for five days or so

[Mathdino]

Lolworthy

@Jay: as a real life teacher, you're not wrong.

@Schism/Not_Mafia: sheep me and end today