Fire on the Mountain [Over]

[Ankamius]

when did you get to the case? I might not have hit it yet

[Ankamius]

ehhhhh...

now that FA's calmed down a bit, I'm seeing it more as town

[Alisae]

Frozen Angel was scum here.

And so is Jingle but its more about FA.

---

　　　　　　　　　

The meta between us two

I've known FA for quite a bit, and I'm a good friend to her.
We also played mafia a bit, most of the memorable games to me are when I was scum vs her town.
This game is kinda how these interactions would play out.
I would awkwardly buddy her
She would feel awkward
I would then push her
and then she would kill me by stabbing me 100 times with forks
and then I would die.
I'M SORRY, I CANNOT INTERACT WITH THIS PERSON NATURALLY AS SCUM.

that is literally all of our interactions, and that game demonstrates it properly.
Not to mention, it was when FA was recently unbanned from MS, she was trying to come back and prove she was a better person then what she used to be (much like myself actually now that I think about it) and this kinda reflects that.

　　　　　　　　　

Okay so if thats what happened, how does that come into play here.

my current main read is that I'm sleepy. I think I'm going to start from there and see how things develop - in bed.

then I have no idea what the fuck you expect from me read wise.
But yush get some sleep dear

FA is probably town btw but its kinda too early to lock it in.

hell its too early to be calling her town but that's how mafia works

This was a really werid read at the time, and a lot of people were kinda concerned about it.
But it is tactical.
It's that awkward buddyish townread that would look like, come from scum!me to town!her, and then an immediate "I really don't want to commit to this and I realized that maybe, I fucked up here."
My expectation from town her is to go aggressive there

Instead, I got this

About Ali I have a bunch of mixed feelings that I'm sorting out rn. But they definitly gave their town read on me "Too early" for my liking. They even said it was too early afterward but I have a hard time digesting it. Waiting for more context from ali tbh.

Town!FA does not sit like this.
She also doesn't do this.
She KNOWS I'm lynchable atm.
This post allows her to sway towards lynching me if my lynch because a thing, or to townread me and try to get me to work with her.

So, I want to force her to take a stance there.

About Ali I have a bunch of mixed feelings that I'm sorting out rn. But they definitly gave their town read on me "Too early" for my liking. They even said it was too early afterward but I have a hard time digesting it. Waiting for more context from ali tbh.

before I read anything gun to head what am I?

pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

Alisae is likely to be scum this game.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
maybe
eeeeeh
agree
strongly agree

where u at

eeeeeh if eeeeeh is a little bit stronger than maybe.

I really did not like your work so far about EE read or the read on me but that doesn't suggest you're scum - just need more content from you.

Okay so she scumreads me, cool.
Why am I the one forcing this out and why is she not acting on it?
Overall, all of this kinda points out to this

If you are aware of my play, but chosing not to commit to a stronger read on me because I'll be a bigger juicy push for later. The way you're talking about me made me cautious so I wanted to see if I could make you commit to some kind of more defined stance, even if it was the weakest levels of town or weakest levels of scum. Given how I went about stating my earlier "read" I kinda felt like it would look more like a red flag to you then what you presented.

and she responds with that with

I avoided giving a read on you cause I consider you as someone who is capable of going deep and giving an early read on you is a dangerous act.

In general, I give reads when I have them and I won't vomit reads. That is me in every game.

Again you should remember that about me - how I ask stuff and appear to be not following them. I transparently say what I got but I don't give cheap reads if thats what you're asking of me

The 1st line is bullshit. If you have the ammo to kill that person, you fucking go for the kill.
The rest is true, especially the last bit.
She's aware I'm lynchable, just doesn't want to go for that yet, and probably go for it later.

And while she outs the wolfread on Shoshin, she outs it on me, because we both know that based on our interactions, if we're not the same alignment, we're probably going to fight.

Basically, what it comes down to is meta manipulation.
The read on me looks fake and if she was town, she wouldn't have any reason to hold back and interact with me a bit more aggressively.

　　　　　　　　　

The bits Prince has to add to her play.

first off, FA isn't some unpredictable rage monster. In a world where FA is town there's no reason for her to be pissed off as she was.
She gets ultra pissed off as scum when she feels like her teammates are making shitty associatives with her. Shoshin was attacking all the townreads on her in a really SvS way.
Go read Antihero's game from a few years back where she replaced out in similar fashion and was super pissed off at Gamma Emerald.

Both Jingle and Shoshin have also been calling each other town, completely unexplained from Shoshin's perspective, Jingle we just saw
Also Shoshin is good enough to not be this dead wrong on Jingle when he hasn't even played well as scum
I can buy people who generally are not super good players like EE making this mistake, but not Shoshin. she's scum

Alright, who are you thinking about other than Jingle/Shosh? I agree the interaction there is awkward, but my read on shoshin is a lot of "wow you're a bad person doing a lot of anti-town things"

And for some reason I keep thinking that she's got it stuck in her head that doing anti-town things is townie, and for that reason I excuse it. Can you counter?

Shoshin is a really good player as town. she's just not town here.

The first paragraph makes sense. I feel like should 100% have a different approach to that if she was town then this.
Like, I feel like even with the whole shoshin self-voting issue being a thing, FA wouldn't blow up about that as town.

　　　　　　　　　

THIS FUCKING TOWNREAD.

btw lets talk about what jingle did.
I read 0 of jingle's posts up to this point but these

pedit: You're cute ali. As I said mixed feelings. The gun on your head is not helping.

Alisae is likely to be scum this game.

Strongly disagree
Disagree
maybe
eeeeeh
agree
strongly agree

where u at

RVS town on Ali.

To ISO
Lycanfire
Xtoxm

To IGNORE
Gamma Emerald
NerfedBuJ

To TOWN
Alisae
Reiuji Utsuho
Vedith
Karmeleon

To SCUM
PvtUrist
Extrapolated Eagle

To ANNOY UNTIL THEY START MAKING ALIGNMENT NOISES
Shoshin
DoubtingThomas
Clemency
DrDolittle
grapes
mcqueen


Groups very vague, honestly don't have much to go on outside of my townreads.

PVT scumread: fluffposting, no content. Feels like he's trying hard to avoid stepping on toes. Notable posts: 47 402 462 467

EE Scumread: Cares a lot about self image. Does a lot, says a lot, wants to be in the spotlight, but I still can't remember anything that actually feels like he's accomplished something. Universal townready feel, but there's absolutely nothing in his ISO that looks unfakeable, nor do I see an attempt to push forward into anything real. Basically, he has his fingers in all the pies, but I don't think he's actually baking.

Vedith: Posts like these:

I don't think I want Shoshin lynched day1

So I pick a vote out if vanity and just let Shoshin get lynched for bad reasoning?

Additionally, I can grok his trajectory. There's a clear intention to his posts, and that intention is to figure out motivations. He's been proactive, a lot of what he says matches what I think, and he's got a townish air of "I'm going to try to gamesolve" while not seeming to give a shit that his stances aren't getting him towncred.

Alisae: Given Ali's experience with me this:

even more reason to lynch the slot tbh

ouch. That hurts, ali.

always scum dude <3

is >rand town.

Additionally, antagonistic and aggressive stance indicates an openness and willingness that strengthens that read.

T-Thats not gonna make me townread you
B-Baka

Cool beans. Being townread is boring. I work way better when I don't get nk'd in the first couple of dayphases.

FA's replace out was a little oversensitive imo, although I understand that some people don't have particularly thick skins. I wouldn't blame Shoshin for DT at all.


I'm not dropping my PVT read yet. PR seems like I don't need to prod him tho.

VOTE: Gemerald

Don't worry, Alisae. It's fine. You can vote me.

Arbitrary Townreads for at least another day:
Reiuji Utsuho
Karmeleon
mcqueen

Actual Townreads:
Prince of Renais
Alisae
Extrapolated Eagle

Scumreads:
DrDolittle
Dannflor

Fuckit, who cares:
Shoshin
NerfedBuJ
Lycanfire
Clemency
Vedith
Xtoxm
Gamma Emerald

Top of each group stronger, roughly.

I have ~100% correct read rate on Alisae.
now tbf I've never actually played a game with Alisae
I've just modded or spectated them
But e's town
pretty sure of it
and I'm only lynching people I'll vote

cause it's slightly meme-y

THIS TOWNREAD IS SO FAKE
What is even weirder is that nobody even thought to question it.

　　　　　　　　　

Jingle's attempt to slow this shoshin wagon

But this started to irk me.

that's an incredibly stupid thing to say.

Not really, no. You know why, and if you want we can talk about it in a while. But you're smart enough to know it's true.

I don't think you're wrong. I just also think you would be in that headspace regardless of what else had happened this game.

I believe PR scumreads Shoshin here regardless of both of their alignments for :reasons:, FWIW.

feels like these kind of comments are only necessary if PR survives the night

which honestly probably never happens

Not really, no. It's the kind of comment designed to throttle votes onto shoshin so that we don't get a speed wagon and have more to analyze. I just gave people a valid way to not want to be on the wagon, and I want to see what comes of that.

Has pretty much nothing to do with PR.

Also, I'd totally not kill him here, because mafia is more fun when it's hard.

He knows who Prince is, I know who Prince is.
I don't think this is town behavoir.
And this proves it:

God no, Elli's boring to argue against.

For those who don't know, Elli is a Tool Assisted Scumhunter. Thats his reputation.
Is this cheating or not? fuck if I know
what I do know is that the reads Elli spits out are really accurate, and people know this.
The day would go on and as soon as he say this person was scum, the town AGREED to lynch them, and they flipped scum.
And then he would die, and then his other scumreads would be lynched.

Prince is equally just as good at the game.

I don't think trying to stop that is something that town!Jingle would do.
It's just, not.

[Ankamius]

Kinda weird so many people see xtoxm as strong town. Does that mean I have to re evaluate my reads?

I think Buj can also be scum tbh

I think DT is town because I liked his/her comment to Reiuji, his/her pushing of Eagle to clarify, and his/her pushing of Shoshin to respond.

I also think people are mistaken in evaluating the overreaction. I think it is much more likely to come from town.

Also shoshin, 3 things I should clarify from my perspective

1. NAI does not equal 'both town and scum do it'. Both scum and town do it means there is sometimes town motivation and there is sometimes scum motivation. That you can analyze. NAI are things that are entirely independent from alignment, such as being busy in real life, not reading a role PM, being bad at math etc.

2. Some actions are inherently anti-town. I don't care that some player in some niche scenario was once able to get something good out of it. The reality is an anti-town action is just bad for town 99% of the time, and in that 1% rare chance, I guarantee that there are alternative ways to achieve the same thing.

3. If someone does something scummy and ends up flipping town it is not my responsibility to townread such behavior in the future. It is their responsibility to not repeat it.

Pedit - fine by me.. I'll stick to only the first 3 reasons for townreading DT just as long as everyone else also doesn't scumread the AtE

AtE is always NAI. Always.

But for the record.. no it is not.

'AtE is used by both town and scum depending on the situation' is correct.

'AtE is NAI' is incorrect.

We can argue that in both cases AtE tries to get people to do what the emotional person wants, but town and scum want different things so you know, you can actually read into the AtE.

idk how I feel about this

like the process itself feels fake but that's still a weird way to respond as scum

[Ankamius]

Bujabber and Xtoxm, by revealed preference, I guess

"You know as much as a I do that a lynch can come out of no where. "

Yeah and that's I think exactly the reason why you shouldnt vote people you don't want to lynch, I think!

I'm picking the lesser.
I'd re vote Xtoxm here as probably Scum.

Shall we talk about?

talk about what?

Why would you lynch Xtoxm?

not liking vedith in this exchange

[Vedith]

Lol here comes the weak pushes on me.

[Ankamius]

why do you care

[Vedith]

About what?

[Ankamius]

the wagon on BuJ should be town-indicative based on the timing

like 70% sure on that

[Ankamius]

About what?

about me having something to say about you?

why do you care

[Ankamius]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

Im sure this is TvT all over.
And lazy town/Scum are encouraging it for easy mis lynches.

Does this read as awkward and forced to anyone else?

That just looked lazy to me tbh.

That just looked lazy to me tbh.

Vote him with me just in case?

eagle can you explain what you were thinking behind this please

[Vedith]

Okay fine.
I don't think I overly care any more.

[Ankamius]

ugh

eagle might actually be scum

[Ankamius]

Votecount 1.9

Shoshin(4)

~ Lycanfire(10), NerfedBuJ(13), DoubtingThomas(88), Jingle(85)

NerfedBuJ(4)

~ Vedith(75), DrDolittle(26)， grapes(16), Shoshin(83)

these wagons are hilariously bad

[Ankamius]

Like, I have a really good read on catching really good players who are not being engaged in the thread as well as they should be if they were town.

For those of you know the likes of Bopolis, Wiggles, Knights, Achromatic, Dyachei, etc, I have like 100% scum read on legendary town players who are not really "actively" trying to catch scums when they were wolfing. Not like activity-wise active, more like, are they engaging with people in the thread and trying to solve everyone's slots?

iirc, Alisae has won like best town or scum player in the scummies last year, right? and she also has like 23k posts here?

The posts she's making here and the empty reads she's giving out while refusing to interact with me and trying to justify her fixation of tunneling me feels like a good player trying to play poorly on purpose.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA HE THINKS I'M GOOD AT THE GAME
HAHAHHAHAHA
THATS SO FUCKING FUNNY OMG

I like alisae but this response is not good

that post was great actually

also alisae is town

[Alisae]

See
Ank gets it
that post was great

[Ankamius]

jingle what was your thought process when you initially replaced into the game?

[Extrapolated Eagle]

p5

eagle is leaning town
alisae is leaning town
gamma is leaning scum
vedith is leaning cheeky town

talk about ali and vedith

VOTE: extrapolated eagle

serious tone and pointless joking content does no go well together

not really liking this slot either

that was like the one vote i did like from him

Eagle why the hell did you need to drag that PL thing out for another 5 pages

she said she was good at playing mafia

i wouldn't have dragged it out if she didn't seem to legitimately believe it

ugh

eagle might actually be scum

lol

i knew this would happen

you're paranoid dont worry about it i'm town i don't have a scum game

i don't roll scum anyways so it's cool

[Dannflor]

Lol here comes the weak pushes on me.

Hey Vedith o/

Why Jingle over Shoshin's earlier scum reads of Lycan/Clem slots?

[Vedith]

I'll lynch in any.

[Ankamius]

It will be too difficult for anyone to convince me Reiuji is mafia. Their active, agenda-less approach to attempt to solve my slot by considering both scum and town and finally to put me at one of their top townreads by using Alisae's (biggest pusher of my slot) own reasons to scum read me in order to town read me in a reasonable manner makes me think nothing but town town town

what

[Ankamius]

p5

eagle is leaning town
alisae is leaning town
gamma is leaning scum
vedith is leaning cheeky town

talk about ali and vedith

VOTE: extrapolated eagle

serious tone and pointless joking content does no go well together

not really liking this slot either

that was like the one vote i did like from him

Eagle why the hell did you need to drag that PL thing out for another 5 pages

she said she was good at playing mafia

i wouldn't have dragged it out if she didn't seem to legitimately believe it

ugh

eagle might actually be scum

lol

i knew this would happen

you're paranoid dont worry about it i'm town i don't have a scum game

i don't roll scum anyways so it's cool

re p5ali: I liked #57
re p5ved: I liked him pretty blatantly saying that he was only jokey as scum and then making a lot of jokey posts, blatant cheekiness like that so early pings lightly town

answer my question please

[Ankamius]

prince is already town

[Ankamius]

first half reads

Town:
Alisae
Prince of Renais
Xtoxm

Probably Town:
NerfedBuJ
Reiuji Utsuho

Unsure/Null:
DrDolittle
Extrapolated Eagle
Jingle
Karmeleon
McQueen
Vedith

Scumreads:
Dannflor
Liger_Zero
MaxwellPuckett

I'll be back to this maybe later

[Extrapolated Eagle]

UNVOTE: DoubtingThomas

Im sure this is TvT all over.
And lazy town/Scum are encouraging it for easy mis lynches.

Does this read as awkward and forced to anyone else?

That just looked lazy to me tbh.

That just looked lazy to me tbh.

Vote him with me just in case?

eagle can you explain what you were thinking behind this please

boredom

people were happy w/ game state

i don't like when people are happy w/ game state

i was trying to figure out who wouldn't be happy if I said "no, this game state is bad"

nobody wanted to lynch vedith