Welp, you can have the first bit now, then.
Skruffs, 2211 wrote:If we are ever going to lynch the lovers before end game, we may as well do it now. At least that way we will have information.
Ether, 2212 wrote:Skruffs: do you seriously believe Fonz might be town and Bookitty scum? Do you
seriously
believe we'd be better off sacrificing a lynch--and that's what we'd be doing--on this off-chance?
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:you attack me for not knowing for sure that Fonz was scum, and suggest that lynching the lovers and killing one scum for sure as compared to possibly mislynching was 'sacrificing a lynch'.
It
is
sacrificing a lynch. If you lynch the lovers that day, we've got one lynch left before we lose. If we don't, we've got two before we lose. You explain this quite clearly in 2211, in fact. Essentially, we already know one is scum and one is town; the only persuasive reason to lynch them is if we're unsure which is which. I felt it was fairly obvious that Fonz was scum, on the reread; nonetheless she didn't attack you for "not knowing for sure" Fonz was scum. It is simply that
it was obviously not worth sacrificing a lynch to find out for sure
because it is already quite straightforward, which is what she actually said. To seriously advocate lynching the lovers, a precondition must be that the information gained from lynching the lovers is of greater value than the benefit of having two attempts at lynching correctly. I have great difficulty seriously believing that was ever the case. Ether is correct.
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:However, looking back, I can see that you were dead set on a Sikario lynch and 'considering the options' could have meant you 'sacrificing' the second most important mislynch you needed in the game.
Okay. Great. SHOW IT. You insist on repeating this without actually showing how you reach this conclusion. If you're actually town, then you want me to figure out that Ether is scum, and
it would be great to actually say why she is
.
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:More insults. "Stop thinking and listen to me", is the gist of post 2217, whcih is ironic because in a later post on the same page, your tone changes.
Ether, 2217 wrote:Post 2215, Skruffs wrote:I'm not questioning which of them is scum, I am wondering which strategy yields the bestresults.
Post 2216, Ryan wrote:What more will we learn from a Sikario8 lynch than say a Fonz lynch?
We get an extra lynch out of it.
Idiots.
Skruffs, 2218 wrote:Ether, that's a little heavy handed.
Ether, 2219 wrote:I'm sorry; I was already in a bad mood.
But seriously, do you think confirming Fonz's and Bookitty's alignments is more critical than getting an extra lynch?
I believe that's commonly known as apologising. The only other post on that page is 2223:
Ether, 2223 wrote:See...your wording implies that you don't think we're going to be able to lynch scum at all. You're like those newbies who try to no-lynch under the rationale that we're statistically unlikely to lynch scum anyway. A mislynch is
still
better than lynching the lovers because:
{snipped}
I am becoming increasingly impatient and skeptical toward your failure to see this.
I'm baffled by Nabakov's and Skruffs's questions about lynching Sikario; it feels like you're resigned to a Siklynch, but you both fail to provide your own opinions or do your own damn homework. (I note that Nabakov has not answered my question. It was serious.) Can't we start treating this like a normal day and voting already?
I don't detect a change in tone, here. Even if I did, you will still need to show how it's scummy; I agree she was somewhat heavy-handed in 2217, but I can perfectly understand her getting frustrated if she's town and in a bad mood, that's just being human. I don't see anything scummy about that.
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:you try to turn what I was saying into makign it abuot confirming Fonz and BooKitty's roles
Skruffs, 2211 wrote:If we are ever going to lynch the lovers before end game, we may as well do it now. At least that way we will have information.
Do you not think the quoted section indicates that you wish to lynch the lovers for the purposes of confirming information about their roles? Seriously?
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:You pull a emotion card for losing Bookitty
Ether, 2223 wrote:- As an extension to this, Bookitty is like one of the few people in the game who's still pulling her weight and her death would be kinda depressing in and of itself.
Losing Bookitty is a big deal. If you believe Fonz is scum (which I did, and is not a difficult conclusion to come to) then Bookitty is confirmed innocent. Personally, I would jump at the chance to keep the lovers alive, at that point; Bookitty is not only a good player, but yes, I believe it's justified she was one of the few pulling their weight. (You can argue the toss here with the proviso that I will abandon all attempts at being diplomatic in answering you.)
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:{You}
make the death of fonz as nothing more than a confirmation of his role (rather than a reduction of hte number of scum in the game, which should be the priority, something that Bookitty even agreed with at that time)
Skruffs, 2211 wrote:If we are ever going to lynch the lovers before end game, we may as well do it now. At least that way we will have information.
Ether, 2223 wrote:- It's kind of obvious who the loverscum is; it's not like we're
really
learning something new.
For starters, she's directly responding to your comment where you assert that lynching the lovers for information is a good thing. She does
not
state that reducing the number of scum in the game in unimportant. She
does
state that lynching the lovers does not yield a great deal of information for the town, which is both true (in my opinion) and in direct response to a statement you made. Saying that she makes the death of Fonz nothing more than a confirmation of his role implies that she asserts there is no other reason to kill Fonz other than to confirm his role.
She does not assert this
.
Also, perhaps this is arguable, but you appear to assert that the death of Fonz will reduce the number of scum in the game, indicating that you know or strongly believe Fonz is scum. This would contradict with advocating that we need to lynch the lovers for information purposes. I suppose this is open to interpretation, but it certainly doesn't make me feel better about you.
I cannot find where Bookitty is supposed to assert that reduction in the number of scum in the game should "be the priority". I seriously doubt that she would say that lynching the lovers should take priority over a plan that gives the town the best chances of winning; my impression was that she supported the plan of lynching a non-lover. (It would be good to have this clarified, Bookitty.)
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:and Right after accusing me of thinking we would mislynch, you say that the benefit of mislynching yesterday was:
"At least we'd get the mislynch over with at a point that, y'know, wouldn't lose us the game."
Skruffs, 2222 wrote:It depends on how sure we are of the 'extra lynch'. A mislynch today and we go to lylo, with the known scum being unlynchable until the end game. If we lynch right, we have the same options tomorrow as we have today, which is better than the alternative.
If we lynch the lovers today, we are in lylo tomorrow too, 8:3, but we also have confirmation of scum, and, if worse comes to worse, we can no lynch to reduce the risk of mislynching for a day.
Ether wrote:See...your wording implies that you don't think we're going to be able to lynch scum at all. You're like those newbies who try to no-lynch under the rationale that we're statistically unlikely to lynch scum anyway. A mislynch is
still
better than lynching the lovers because:
- At least we'd get the mislynch over with at a point that, y'know,
wouldn't
lose us the game.
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:However, you missed something altogether: If we had lynched the lovers yesterday, we would be 8/3 today instead of 9/4, we wouldn't have the scum with an advantage of having a partner that will quick hammer *with immunity* at every given chance, and we would have had, possibly, a different combination or players around today. So you can yell at me all you want for not seeing the 'benefits' of mislynching yesterday over lynching scum AND town yesterday all you want, I think it's jsut a cover for your own agenda, and I'm sticking with that.
With respect to her comment about mislynching and the above quote, the logic is very simple.
From the players alive on day 4, pick the person most likely to be scum. That is, in retrospect (and there was not much argument against this) Sikario.
Plan a) is to lynch the lovers, then lynch the most scummy person. So we would have discovered Bookitty was town, Fonz was scum and then
we would have lost by lynching Sikario
. We also do not have the benefit of Bookitty around, as I said earlier.
Plan b) is not to lynch the lovers. We lynch Sikario, who was town, but because we didn't lynch the lovers, we
don't
lose and have another chance to lynch scum today.
Basically, if we have lynched a lover yesterday, we would have almost certainly lost today by lynching Sikario. So there is basically no grounds for criticising Ether for advocating not lynching the lovers yesterday, because it was the right thing to do.
If you want me to follow vote Ether, you need to show how "it's jsut a cover for
{her}
own agenda" and what it is instead of just saying things like that. I am not a fan of the negative propaganda feel, here; state your case properly or leave it out.
Skruffs, 2675 wrote:Later on in the post you say that I am "resigned" to a Siklynch, which was just blatantly not true, and both tell me to do my homework AND to start voting. Less talk more action! (which ties in with the "Idiots" post before. 'Stop thinking, and do what I say, even though everything I say to do turns out wrong and I will wind up blaming YOU for it later!' would have been the APPROPRIATE 'truth-in-advertising' post to make at that time.)
Ether, 2223 wrote:I'm baffled by Nabakov's and Skruffs's questions about lynching Sikario; it feels like you're resigned to a Siklynch, but you both fail to provide your own opinions or do your own damn homework. (I note that Nabakov has not answered my question. It was serious.) Can't we start treating this like a normal day and voting already?
I think it's reasonable to state that you haven't provided your own opinions on Sikario's lynch at that point. I don't entirely agree that you seem resigned to a Sikario lynch, but I can see what she means, I think. I do get the feeling that you're not going to argue against it, and are happy to push it through, although it's perhaps slightly biased perception because I'm already looking for it. I really think the "stop thinking and do what I say" points are tired out by now.
There is more, but I'll hit submit so you can start talkin'.
Succinctness is pro-town.
Passion is inversely proportional to the amount of real information available. ~ Gregory Benford