Mini #119: Pirate Mafia - ARRRRRRR!

[silgado106]

Ok, I agree with your points here. And yes, about your last quote from Dirge, it's true. Shelper never said that he found unbelievable that I didn't protect right at night.

[Save The Dragons]

Sorry, long post.

[start of STD response]

2. The last roleclaim

If anyone holds any weight on this, I will smack them. I have a little something called school on the west coast, and I get out really late anyway, and so by the time I'm out it's dinner time on the east coast. Besides, I could have just as easily picked...well...I really don't know, but I'd probably do it a lot simpler than "I investigate dead people."

You can say that you could have picked something simpler all you want, but that still doesn't justify anything. You have mentioned it yourself, WIFOM, I am not even going to take this point seriously.

The point I was really trying to make was that I wasn't waiting for everyone else to claim just so that I could post a pre-planned obscure role that I was hoping no one else had, cuz investigating dead people looking for treasure is very popular.

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

I don't think you understood what I said. First of all, I know what he meant by "evil wenches". That was Shelper after he came back and Big K wasn't replacing him anymore. How am I grasping straws only at what Shelper said, but not at what Big K said... and if I have something with the Big K thing, then why do you say this afterwards?

He's hypothesizing. I find it very suspicious you pick up on those words and ignore the context of the phrase. My spanish 200 teacher would kill you (because she said "context of the sentance" a lot). Then again, I have no doubt you could translate the sentance in spanish forward and backwards, so she probably wouldn't. I digress. Digress is pretty wierd if you say it like that. It's like, "LOOK AT ME! I'M DIGRESSING!"

Sorry. I'll stop now.

So I first have something, but then I am suspicious because I picked up on "those words"....

Whoops! You missed a line:

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

That is, I would be saying that, however:

Excuse me for stating the obvivous, but we had one night kill. DoomCow was "married to a nice girl". I wonder what type of baddies we have? Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate? Nice, good ole girls? etc.. Also, if we have another group, was "married to a nice girl" a mafia trait or a sk trait?

He's hypothesizing. I find it very suspicious you pick up on those words and ignore the context of the phrase. My spanish 200 teacher would kill you (because she said "context of the sentance" a lot). Then again, I have no doubt you could translate the sentance in spanish forward and backwards, so she probably wouldn't. I digress. Digress is pretty wierd if you say it like that. It's like, "LOOK AT ME! I'M DIGRESSING!"

Sorry. I'll stop now.

So basically, I'm saying evil wenches could mean anything, and if B_K said the civil thing on its own, it would have been suspicious, but because he added a bunch of other stuff, it's not. And I think it's very ironic that you again omitting things in my argument against you where I try to call you out for omitting things.

1. Shelper. He's been very defensive; etc. I don't think I need to get into this.

Well yeah I would like you to get into this, because I not only see him being defensive. I see you, dirge and even myself being defensive. Is that all you really have against him? Seems rather weak to be your top choice.

Well, that was just an example...I could look back at my posts and tell you all my reasons again, but I won't right now...I gotta answer your stuff first.

2. Should I go with the doc who refuses to die or mr. aggressive?

I'm liking Dirge, because he's playing hard, and he's hiding behind me, picking who I'm picking, etc...

[sarcasm]Yes, every night when I am about to get killed, I beg and plea and refuse to let those scumbags kill me. It works, you should try it.[/sarcasm]

It's a figure of speech.

[quote="Silgado]Anyway, yes Dirge is playing hard, he has been playing hard since the very beginning of this game, remember the Dirge/Thoth thing? Remember the Dirge/Me thing? But wait a sec, the first Dirge (the one in Dirge/Thoth) was actually a cop. Ummm. I think that rules out your "playing hard". And is he really hiding behind you? Or just relying on you? And vice versa? Because I do remember, in some of the points I wrote, that you were the one that actually followed him. Ummm. I think that rules out your second point against Dirge. So now really, what is the real reason you think Dirge is scum?[/quote]

Then after I role claim, Dirge unvotes first, then STD, then Dirge votes FD, and then STD follows again and votes for FD.

Good point. I was tired. I have no answer for this...

By playing hard, though, I meant the way he was currently acting. It's open to interpretation. He was playing hard before, but he's playing hard in a different way now, I think. A little less confrontational, but still just as agressive.

Because if Dirge is scum, it doesn't make sense for him to go so heavily after shelper...so probably only one of them are scum.

So there's shelper, Dirge, Sligado, and the Vig that we've pledged as truthful. I'm not saying I'm disbelieving his role claim, but I think it's possible Thoth was a vig and Massive is Maf.

But I'm going to put Massive aside for now, because I do believe him, and all the situations I can think of in my mushed up brain don't add up to him mafia.

But I'd say Dirge, and I have more in my very last point:

Exactly, it wouldn't really make sense if the scum would go against scum this late in the game, it would make them lose one partner, making it way harder for them to win, when all they have to do is make an innocent sound like scum, get him lynched, and win the game.
It is true that Massive could be Mafia if Thoth was actually a vig. But would he really be preparing himself for his roleclaim, ever since Thoth died?? He kept repeating over and over that Thoth was a SK, he even said I was suspicious because I refused to believe that Thoth was a Vig. It sounds to me like he (Massive) has been a Vig throughout the whole game. And if he isn't, then he was EXTREMELY smart by preparing for such a role claim, not even knowing how things would turn out later on in the game.
So then, going by your own suspicions here, if Dirge and Shelper aren't scum together, Massive is not scum, and I know I am not, that can only mean that the scum couple is... yourself and Dirge.

Wow...that's actually pretty sad. You're trying to make it look like I implicated myself. Way to go:

What you can derive from my logic (if you aren't scum):

Dirge and STD could be scum.
STD and shelper could be scum.

What I can derive from my logic (if I'm not scum):

Dirge and Sildago could be scum.
Shelper and Sildago could be scum.

So way to say "going by your own suspicious...you and dirge must be scum." Good job. My own suspicions do not clear you. In fact, based on this and everything you've said before, you've risen to my #1 spot for scum. Congradulations.

2. At first, Silgado was winning with waiting for the result is what anyone would have done.
Then Dirge rebounds, making his point that Shelper had extra time to attack me.

Of course, you couldn't finish off your defensive post with a little hint of making Shelper suspicious.
[End of STD response]

Of course, you couldn't finish off your offensive post without a little hint of attacking me. See that 2? I supported you in 1, cuz you made sense.

I really, really, really want to vote you, Silgado...I've thought you were suspicious for a long time now, but you faded down and we believed your doctor claim. I am willing to take the risk, but I won't yet.

[Save The Dragons]

And if you are curious about that tiny text, that was just stuff that was already quoted by Silgado and I didn't want to make this post longer than it had to be. I tried to do that with some of the text below the bold, but for some reason it didn't work. Check for yourself if you like.

[Dirge]

Please, do not say you alluded to your "inkling" because you never did such a thing in your original post.

I did to.

Also Dirge, you never pointed out your top two, did you skim through my post yet again?

You accuse me of skimming and not paying attention? I pointed out my top two already. I believe it was before you demanded it.

[silgado106]

Sorry, I know I promised no more long post. But what can I do when people fling stuff at me?

Whoops! You missed a line:

Hmmmm...interesting. Evil wenches I think means bitchy girls in pirate times but I dunno for sure. It could mean any evil person...I dunno for sure the definition of wench. Anyway...I think that part is grasping straws, but...the B_K thing...I think you got something.

That is, I would be saying that, however:

Yes I did miss that line. So you are telling me, that as you were going along with me, you were agreeing with me with the Big K thing, then you see Big K's post, the one where he is "hypothesizing" (which even if he was hypothesizing, which he was, he put the "moral people"

before

he put the girls? that's really a really weird way of hypothesizing, since the death scene said he married a girl. And also you say he put a bunch of other stuff, when in fact all he put was the "moral people" and the girls. Which post are YOU reading?) and instead of erasing your earlier stuff about agreeing with me, you just post his post and say that I have nothing. That seems like a really weird way of writing your post, which I guess is just that, your weird way of writing posts, rather than something suspicious. So we should dismiss this point.

So basically, I'm saying evil wenches could mean anything

Evil wenches doesn't just mean anything, that meant the girl that DoomCow married. But I really don't know why you are even mentioning Evil Wenches, when it wasn't even Big K that said it!

By playing hard, though, I meant the way he was currently acting. It's open to interpretation. He was playing hard before, but he's playing hard in a different way now, I think. A little less confrontational, but still just as agressive.

A little less confrontational? Did you read his posts?

Wow...that's actually pretty sad. You're trying to make it look like I implicated myself. Way to go:

What you can derive from my logic (if you aren't scum):

Dirge and STD could be scum.
STD and shelper could be scum.

What I can derive from my logic (if I'm not scum):

Dirge and Sildago could be scum.
Shelper and Sildago could be scum.

So way to say "going by your own suspicious...you and dirge must be scum." Good job. My own suspicions do not clear you. In fact, based on this and everything you've said before, you've risen to my #1 spot for scum. Congradulations.

Trying to make it look? No, you did that yourself my friend. What I can derive from your logic, and since I am not scum, it's right, it's either you and Dirge, you and Shelper, or Dirge and Shelper (I think I've mentioned this already)
What

you

can derive from your logic IF you are not scum is also right, me and Dirge, me and Shelper, and also Dirge and Shelper (weird, you missed this one... twice) But, I really have to say I am almost cleared. If you think about it (if you are not scum like you say) is that, how can there BE no doctor if I am lying? That sounds stupid, knowing that there's a "treasure hunter" that is virtually useless, yet there's no doctor? What are the chances of town winning with a treasure hunter rather than a doctor?? And then if we take Massive's claim as true, which you have, that means that Thoth was a SK, which means his first kill was either blocked or doctored, yet we know that the only roleblocker DIDN'T block Thoth. The chances of Thoth choosing to kill FD on the first night are pretty high, and

I

protected FD, and

I

am claiming doctor, and no one else has come forward saying that they protected anyone on Night 1! C'mon, if you really are town you would have seen all of this! Instead of putting me on your number one spot, and congratulating me with a mis-spelled word...

Of course, you couldn't finish off your offensive post without a little hint of attacking me. See that 2? I supported you in 1, cuz you made sense.

I really, really, really want to vote you, Silgado...I've thought you were suspicious for a long time now, but you faded down and we believed your doctor claim. I am willing to take the risk, but I won't yet.

My whole post was attacking you and Dirge about your interactions throughout the whole game!! Did you not pay attention? I know you were trying to make me sound stupid and a hypocrite, but how the hell am I a hypocrite when I attack you in a post in which I started by attacking you?? Jesus, now you really are just making stuff up to cover your own ass, and I am getting really tired.
You thought I was suspicious? I thought the stuff you had against me was weak. Now your stuff was not weak after all? Can you make up your mind please? I really, really, really, want to vote for either you or Dirge, but I am waiting for Massive. He could still very well be either mafia or sk or something and trying to pull one over our eyes by making us fight each other. So we need to hear him speak.
[End of STD]

[Dirge now]

I did to.

You did?

I noticed something that is interesting in shelper's post. He starts out this day casting suspicion on silgado. He points out that it's unbelievable that silgado failed to protect yet again.

Also, it's been two nights now since silgado claimed doc and on both occasions the scum decided they'd rather take out someone else. One night, maybe, but two?

He is pointing out something suspicious here. It's worded in such a way though that he can argue the meaning to be observation rather than suspicion.

silgado missed the suspicion. But, to shelper's good fortune, silgado comes on and agrees... 'yeah, I know it’s like, so incomprehensible'. silgado also doesn’t list shelper among his top suspects which works to shelper’s advantage. So shelper can change his target and turn his gun on STD hoping that if he pushes hard enough he can get silgado to vote STD (one of silgado's top suspects).

Vote: shelper

If you did allude to your "inkling" in that post, it is either very well hidden, or, what I certainly think, non-existant.

You accuse me of skimming and not paying attention? I pointed out my top two already. I believe it was before you demanded it.

Yes, you did post your two suspects, I read that before of course but I forgot you did. Excuse me. Now, yes I am accusing you of skimming my posts, as you did it when I asked people to say if they had a named role or not. Yet you NEVER answered. Didn't you find it weird that both STD and Fuldu answered to a question which you hadn't seen? Couldn't you have then backed me up, instead of letting anyone be suspicious of me being the only one with a named role? Or maybe, you just made up your role name, and forgot that I had asked everyone to tell me if they had a named role name, and then you just said "I didn't remember you asking". Also can I ask you exactly how your role name was presented? Was it just the name, or did it also say "from Pirates of Penzance"?

[Save The Dragons]

Yes I did miss that line. So you are telling me, that as you were going along with me, you were agreeing with me with the Big K thing, then you see Big K's post, the one where he is "hypothesizing" (which even if he was hypothesizing, which he was, he put the "moral people"

before

he put the girls? that's really a really weird way of hypothesizing, since the death scene said he married a girl. And also you say he put a bunch of other stuff, when in fact all he put was the "moral people" and the girls. Which post are YOU reading?) and instead of erasing your earlier stuff about agreeing with me, you just post his post and say that I have nothing. That seems like a really weird way of writing your post, which I guess is just that, your weird way of writing posts, rather than something suspicious. So we should dismiss this point.

Moral people could very well equal nice girls. In fact, he gives nice girls as an example. And where, might you ask, would he get that wierd, crazy assumption that there are moral people trying to destroy the pirating way of life?

12 brave souls be gathered aboard the Captain's ship, ready to stand fer life, liberty, and the pursuit of booty! But amongst these 12 man-jacks and sea-dogs and cutthroats be some who have a secret, dreadful mission -- To destroy the pirating way of life!

I dunno...the opposate of cutthroats and man-jacks sure sounds like moral people to me...

And forgive me for posting chronologically. In fact, I was trying to point out how it looks like you set a trap by excluding some of the post, and had one not gone back to look for it, they would have fell for it.

Evil wenches doesn't just mean anything, that meant the girl that DoomCow married. But I really don't know why you are even mentioning Evil Wenches, when it wasn't even Big K that said it!

I wasn't talking about B_K. I was paraphrasing my entire post, which started out by mentioning the wenches.

A little less confrontational? Did you read his posts?

I was thinking heavily on the Thoth vs. Dirge thing...I may be wrong...I'd have to look back over his posts.

Trying to make it look? No, you did that yourself my friend. What I can derive from your logic, and since I am not scum, it's right, it's either you and Dirge, you and Shelper, or Dirge and Shelper (I think I've mentioned this already)
What

you

can derive from your logic IF you are not scum is also right, me and Dirge, me and Shelper, and also Dirge and Shelper (weird, you missed this one... twice) But, I really have to say I am almost cleared. If you think about it (if you are not scum like you say) is that, how can there BE no doctor if I am lying? That sounds stupid, knowing that there's a "treasure hunter" that is virtually useless, yet there's no doctor? What are the chances of town winning with a treasure hunter rather than a doctor?? And then if we take Massive's claim as true, which you have, that means that Thoth was a SK, which means his first kill was either blocked or doctored, yet we know that the only roleblocker DIDN'T block Thoth. The chances of Thoth choosing to kill FD on the first night are pretty high, and

I

protected FD, and

I

am claiming doctor, and no one else has come forward saying that they protected anyone on Night 1! C'mon, if you really are town you would have seen all of this! Instead of putting me on your number one spot, and congratulating me with a mis-spelled word...

Mmmmm...you said I made it look like I was mafia, and say nothing to prove it. That specific incident I was refering to was your effort to pass yourself off as 100% proven innocent.

My logic included the fact that Shelper and Dirge were not scum. And it's interesting you bring that up now, when you didn't before. You just said it was Dirge and I. So I say to you what you said to me. Wierd, you missed this one.

Now about your other thing...you got me...the only thing I could think of was a missing night choice or he's alternating nights or he shot doomcow but marriage took precidence...jee...I have no way of answering...I'm starting to consider you may be telling the truth about this...

My whole post was attacking you and Dirge about your interactions throughout the whole game!! Did you not pay attention?

Mmmmmkay...my post

never meant

you weren't attacking me before...I'm mocking you and pointing out you just ended attacking me. It means nothing. The mocking was the point, and the information after it.

I know you were trying to make me sound stupid and a hypocrite, but how the hell am I a hypocrite when I attack you in a post in which I started by attacking you?? Jesus, now you really are just making stuff up to cover your own ass, and I am getting really tired.

Whuh? You can't be a hypocrite because your post has a certain meaning? Whuh? I'm making stuff up?

You thought I was suspicious? I thought the stuff you had against me was weak. Now your stuff was not weak after all? Can you make up your mind please?

*Takes out notepad*

RE: Silgado

Things can't change, even after excrusiating long posts with tons of information being passed back and forth.

*Puts notpad away*

Ok. Now this is the hard part.

Because of what you said, and the more I think about the mafia not killing you, the more I'm believing your doctor claim, even after all you said to make me feel more suspicious of you. This argument is petty and we're going to be running in circles if we don't stop. I couldn't in good faith not answer some of your claims against me, because that's the way I am. So if you feel like you want to continue, go ahead, and maybe we can gradually fizzle out or something. Because you seem right...but your posts just don't look innocent to me.

And as I said, I usually post my feelings chronologically, but if I change my mind in mid-post (which is quite often) than I will keep everything beforehand.

[massive]

Wow, go away for a business trip for a couple of days, and look what happens ...

Here's where I'm at. I've already stated that I think there's no way silgado is scum - the evidence in the game supports a doctor, and he's our only claimed doctor. None of the other roles that are dead make it look like a doctor. Course, Dread Pirate doesn't sound like a doctor either, but one of those off-roles would have counterclaimed silgado ... his role has been out in the open long enough.

Right now the only one I'd feel 100% ok with voting for is shelper. B-K offered two really suspicious things while subbing for him - the first being his opinion of Thoth/Dirge-I, which I pointed out at the time. Knowing now that (either way Thoth ends up) they both were non-Mafia, this really REALLY stands out. Why put that forward as a possibility? The only reason to do so is so you can play "I told you so" when the real facts come out. And noting that Thoth was killed the next night continues to indicate that B-K may have pushed that agenda. The second is the "what's our Mafia" comment that people have been arguing about in the last couple of pages. It doesn't matter whether he says it conclusively or not; the fact that he put it out there as a possibility when popular opinion was going the other way also makes for a huge "I told you so" possibility, but really just points to the fact that B-K has extra knowledge and has slipped up. I didn't notice that the first time through, so I'm glad you guys brought it up.

After that, I'm willing to kill whoever we think is number 2 tonight, be it Dirge or StD. I guess I'm going to rely on your input here, silgado. I'd probably pick Dirge based on the roleclaim over StD. Although STDs been trying to gloss over the B-K slip in the last couple of posts ...

[silgado106]

Thank you Massive. STD has been trying to disprove the B K slip, making it seem like it was nothing, while in fact I really think it was a slip up, I'm glad I'm not the only one that thinks so.

Also, STD, I did include Dirge and Shelper, in fact I included all possibilities in my little chart at the beginning remember? And I even included things that did seem like Shelper was mafia (the big k slip up) so I wasn't just trying to make you two (Dirge and yourself) look like mafia, I was going back and pointing out EVERYTHING I saw scummy about you three. It just so happened that you and Dirge had quite some things I wanted to point out. There's other points that I want to refute back in your latest long post, but I will stop because there's really no reason for me to keep arguing with you when all you do is say things back to me that really don't make that much sense.

But back to Massive. While talking back and forth with STD, I did notice that Shelper has been quite quiet this whole time. He has basically made two posts while me, std and even Dirge a bit were throwing stuff at each other. Which of course can only mean he was just trying to stay well off the radar. Dirge already has a vote on Shelper, can that mean that Dirge and Shelper are not together? Would one mafia vote for the other at this stage of the game? I'm not completely sure. I would think that mafia would try to really get an innocent lynched, unless they were trying to really secure their chances in a three person endgame? So let's say it's not Dirge and Shelper (which STD seems to agree with) it can only mean that it is either Dirge and STD or STD and Shelper. In both cases, STD is the common link. But then again that might have just been set up that way by the mafia (now this is truly WIFOM that's going through my mind, it's really not helping) STD has also said that Shelper is in his top list. So if Shelper is in everyone's list, should we rid of him?

I do agree with you (Massive) about the two slip ups from Big K. Which I think might be reinforced by the fact that when Shelper came back, he just went back to the "Evil wenches" theory (this is where evil wenches comes in, STD). Could that have been trying to rectify Big K's slip up? We need Shelper to talk to us regarding this, as we've been talking about it, yet he has given us no input (again maybe trying to stay under the radar)

Then if we do lynch him, and he turns out to be scum, which of the other two could be his partner? Dirge (although he has a vote on him) might very well be his partner (the role claim is still quite weird, and him trying to implicate Shelper about forcing me to vote for STD might have been a way to make us think we got scum thanks to him). But on the other hand, so can STD. His reluctance to agree with the Big K thing, and when STD and Shelper both voted for Someone (although that was just because Someone wasn't posting, so that might mean nothing)

I think we will wait for Shelper, then after he speaks, we can make a decision, alright Massive?

[shelper]

I am here.
Personally, i thought the whole evil wenches thing was blown a bit out of proportion. At the same time, i can't explain the actions of big_k as i am not him. I can't simply decide to go away for another week and let him replace again to answer your questions. I will try and do my best to put myself in his shoes though.

"As far as Thoth and Dirge situation, maybe it's two pirates looking hard for scum."

Not sure what he was thinking here, maybe he wanted to suggest not to be too quick to lynch either of them for their eagerness to find scum?

Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate? Nice, good ole girls?

And if you'll look to your left

(keep all arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times please)

, you'll see big_k trying to speculate at what roles the mafia might be.
It's obvious we pirates aren't the friendliest of folks, so i can see how he might've thought good moral civilians might want us dead, i don't really understand how everybody sees this as a slipup. The nice good ole girls he must have gotten from the "married to a nice girl" as all of us have, including myself only i called them

evil wenches

to stay in the theme of things.

he put the "moral people" before he put the girls? that's really a really weird way of hypothesizing, since the death scene said he married a girl.

Try as i might, i really can't be expected to defend against how other people decide to put together a sentence.

Right now the only one I'd feel 100% ok with voting for is shelper. B-K offered two really suspicious things while subbing for him - the first being his opinion of Thoth/Dirge-I, which I pointed out at the time. Knowing now that (either way Thoth ends up) they both were non-Mafia, this really REALLY stands out. Why put that forward as a possibility? The only reason to do so is so you can play "I told you so" when the real facts come out. And noting that Thoth was killed the next night continues to indicate that B-K may have pushed that agenda. The second is the "what's our Mafia" comment that people have been arguing about in the last couple of pages. It doesn't matter whether he says it conclusively or not; the fact that he put it out there as a possibility when popular opinion was going the other way also makes for a huge "I told you so" possibility, but really just points to the fact that B-K has extra knowledge and has slipped up. I didn't notice that the first time through, so I'm glad you guys brought it up.

You keep saying he said a lot of things so that he could later on say "i told you so". I don't really see the advantage of that, doesn't saying "i told you so" imply that you indeed had knowledge beforehand that others didn't and thus make yourself more suspicious? Why would he purposefully try to appear as if he had more information?

[Save The Dragons]

Eh? You think I'm scum because of the slip up?

Civilians that emphasize morality and not the reveling life of a pirate? Nice, good ole girls?

And if you'll look to your left (keep all arms and legs inside the vehicle at all times please), you'll see big_k trying to speculate at what roles the mafia might be.
It's obvious we pirates aren't the friendliest of folks, so i can see how he might've thought good moral civilians might want us dead, i don't really understand how everybody sees this as a slipup. The nice good ole girls he must have gotten from the "married to a nice girl" as all of us have, including myself only i called them evil wenches to stay in the theme of things.

Shelper put it much better than I did...this is the point I've been trying to make.

And since nice girls

is

an example of moral people...what's your point?

I call them as I see them...I still think Shelper is mafia, I just don't think people like B_K, make these little 'slips.'

As for killing me...I am not mafia, I swears it. But looking back, the only person I can accuse of mafia is of course Dirge, but I can't really outright accuse him because it would seem like a desperate attempt on my part and just too...fishy I guess. Draw your own conclusions.

[silgado106]

Shelper, if Big K was mafia, which you should know if he was or not, and he said during the Thoth/Dirge I confrontation "maybe they are just two townies fighting each other", then that night both of them died, he could have simply said "see? you guys should have listened to me, I was trying to help" of course he didn't say such a thing because you came back. And also as I said before, no one is expecting anyone to defend what their predecessors or their temps said while they were playing.

STD, who are you referring to with your first question? And about the "moral people" the point I am trying to make is, if you have the

fact

that DoomCow was married to a nice girl, WHY would you instead put a different possibility before something that is factual? It just makes no sense, unless you know more than just that. I truly don't think you are seeing this from a townie perspective. Because I can tell you that, at least me, the main thing I had in my mind as to what the mafia was were just nice girls that were going to marry the whole lot of us, but then again, I had no way of knowing that there was a priest on board before we lynched him.

[Save The Dragons]

I was refering to you. And you must keep in mind, I wasn't viewing these events as they were happening.

This point is being driven into the ground.

You think it's a slip because of the wording.

I think it's not because pirates are not moral.

I'm not going to change my opinion.

[massive]

Obviously it's not an overt "I told you so." Silgado has nailed it mostly; what it attempts to do is establish credibility to the town. A scum won't come out and admit it, but they won't disagree when someone says "Well so-and-so was right about this, he's probably trustworthy." It's subliminal.

Except when one oversteps the line between what is general knowledge, and what is known only to the scum.

Well, I guess we oughta discuss who I should kill tonight before we vote.

[massive]

STD, are you just arguing semantics here? Because you seem to be disagreeing even though you've said you think shelper is scum.

[silgado106]

I don't want to say too much about who you should kill tonight, because I don't want to help scum, although I am pretty sure they have already thought of all scenarios, and they know who they will kill. But I think Dirge might be a good candidate. Although STD is obviously good enough... argh. I was also thinking that I didn't like the idea that BOTH, STD and Dirge, started the day agreeing that Shelper was suspicious. If Shelper is mafia, it's obvious that his partner is giving up on saving him, or rather started the day by accusing him. But if he's not mafia, it's also obvious that the two mafia were working together on lynching an innocent. But at this point, is there anything else we can do to make sure we lynch scum? I don't really think so, we have a lot of information, all that points to all three of them. So I think we should lynch Shelper today, and you should kill Dirge tonight. Also I get to protect tonight, I'll think about this too. I wouldn't mind making it to the endgame though. Umm...

[silgado106]

Oh and also, I wouldn't mind seeing Dirge post his thoughts about what we have been discussing, and also his answers to my previous questions. You have seen them throughout my posts, haven't you?

[Save The Dragons]

Well...it's my opinion that shelper is scum. I do not believe that what B_K said is a slip; however I still think he's scummy for other reasons.

[silgado106]

Would you like to tell us what those reasons are? I think that would help us, rather than you opposing

our

reasons and hiding yours you should try helping us a bit.

[Save The Dragons]

Mmm...

I count 1 reason that I'm disagreeing with, just cuz I don't see it the way you do. He sure could've slipped up.

I'll look over my reasons...could you possibly gather up your reasons? It would be more organized and I could tell you if I believe it or not.

So post coming in a little bit.

[silgado106]

Umm... I think our reasons against Shelper are not too hard to find, you can just look for them easily.

We will be waiting for your reasons though.

[Save The Dragons]

Ok...looking back I kinda feel stupid. It's just the way he's been posting and acting...he seemed to be overly into his innocence and pretty defensive. Looking back I see that I have hardly written anything to show Shelper's guilt. I guess it could be just a feeling.

From what I understand: Silgado and Massive are not scum, and so 2 out of the three remaining players have to be scum. You say that B_K slipped up. I disagree. You say B_K could have said "I told you so," I don't see why...I guess to make him more believable, but since he didn't, I don't see why you can draw this conclusion...because by your post it seems like it's something he'd most likely do...(I'm not denying the second could have happened, I just don't see it holding a lot of weight...if I'm overlooking something, do tell).

That's what I can see...and those are pretty much reasons against B_K...how about shelper?

And I probably won't change my top story so if you were worried the first time that I was just going to say, "yeah, uh-huh, those were my reasons too" than go ahead and post them. If that wasn't what you were thinking, I thank you for not drawing that conclusion, because that wasn't my goal at all.

[shelper]

Shelper, if Big K was mafia, which you should know if he was or not, and he said during the Thoth/Dirge I confrontation "maybe they are just two townies fighting each other", then that night both of them died, he could have simply said "see? you guys should have listened to me, I was trying to help"
-------------------------------------
Obviously it's not an overt "I told you so." Silgado has nailed it mostly; what it attempts to do is establish credibility to the town. A scum won't come out and admit it, but they won't disagree when someone says "Well so-and-so was right about this, he's probably trustworthy." It's subliminal.

Allright, i see where you were going with this now, unfortunately i can't say anything about it. It wasn't me. I think i answered all of the accusations directed at me

(me me, not big k me) and if i haven't please point them out to me

, and while i realize we don't lynch players, but rather roles, if you decide to lynch me, the mafia

will

have won.
That said, i feel it's time to put my money where my mouth is.

Vote: dirge

.
I've been saying this entire time he's scum but never dared to put my vote out there. Hereby.

[Save The Dragons]

I think it's pretty much in the hands of massive and sligado...unless you want us to say more.

[silgado106]

I'm just waiting to see if Massive has anything else to add, and see if he has finished thinking about tonight.

And also STD, for the love of god I am SILGADO, SIL not SLI. I'll let the first 100 slide by, ok? but no more!

[Save The Dragons]

Now do you see why I like calling you Jose?