Mini 938: Weeds Mafia (GAME OVER)

[Sando]

I thought I outlined it pretty succinctly, but I guess not...

There are 2 options here, he's newbie-town or newbie-scum. For 2 reasons, I don't think he's newbie-town, therefor I think he's scum.

1 - Newb-town in this situation tend to react with indignation, not acceptance. They get angry, they get upset, they don't simply accept the fact.

2 - Newb-town in this situation tend to react quite badly to those attacking them. Lot's of OMGUS, assuming that the only reason someone could be attacking them, who is obviously town in their own eyes, is because they're scum. Thatguy on the other hand has basically said 'yep, you guys did too good a case against me, nothing I can say' to 3 players.

Acceptance of their fate isn't how newb-town reacts in this situation.

[Ythan]

Acceptance of their fate isn't how newb-town reacts in this situation.

It's preposterous to make this call with such certainty in an attempt to push a lynch when it's clearly not any kind of absolute. There are 2 options here, you're mistaken-town or fumbled-scum.

[Sando]

Acceptance of their fate isn't how newb-town reacts in this situation.

It's preposterous to make this call with such certainty in an attempt to push a lynch when it's clearly not any kind of absolute. There are 2 options here, you're mistaken-town or fumbled-scum.

Wow, Ythan completely ignores my reasoning so that he can selectively quote me to try and make some ridiculous statement. Considering he specifically asked for my reasoning, to then ignore it so that he can simplify and misrep my case is crazy scummy.

[Ythan]

Your reasoning does not validate the statement, and your forceful claims her regarding my misrepresentation are even more ridiculous than what you could have left as possibly a mistake on your part. To pursue such a baseless accusation with such force, is that what you want to do?

[xRECKONERx]

Andy

: "Chris died for your sins."

D1 Vote Count #5

Ythan (1): McGriddle
thatguy00 (3): Sando, horrordude0215, ooba
Leech (1): Konowa
Fate (1): Leech
ooba (1): Fate

Not voting (5): danakillsu, MagnaofIllusion, havingfitz, Ythan, thatguy00

Reminder: deadline is April 6th at 1:00PM eastern time.

[ooba]

Ooba, considering I attacked Thatguy for exactly what you accuse Leech of, how am I being opportunistic? Are you basing opportunistic purely off number of votes on the person at the time, as this doesn't address motivation. A well reasoned hammer is less opportunistic than a L-X vote with poor reasoning.

I read Opportunistic votes as a function of the reason stated for voting the player and the number of votes on a person at the time of voting. In your case, I thought the first of the statement "Looks like waiting until the prevailing winds are that Ythan is annoying people, and we'll jump on him for a somewhat erratic playstyle." was a stretch. There were just two posts from Leech and yourself and Ythan had only one vote on him at the time. It just does not seem genuine enough.

Your constant buddying up to Magna is also very suspicious.

Magna is one of the few people actively scumhunting with intent, looks townie to me at this stage.

You're tunneling Magna, who is pretty consistently scumhunting.

---

In fact I can make a case for a thatguy\Sando scum pairing. Here are the reasons as to why I think so:

-

Distancing

In my first post, I had termed Sando's jump as opportunistic (Prob-Scum on town). But given thatguy's recent behavior and him not posting after the attacks on his outburst, I feel that the lack of genuine-ness was because it was a distancing vote. (i.e "Let me vote for my scum partner now, and remove it later when something else crops up)

-

Setting up alternate lynches

In nearly every post, you can see wording to the effect that "thatguy is scummy but lets not rule out these players. I would be for lynching them too"

Thatguys opportunistic wagon hopping, got lost in all of that.

Still think that Leech's retreat to WIFOM is contrived.

Thatguy and Leech's jump onto Ythan are both pretty scummy. Not sure who's is worse, but sticking with Thatguy for the moment. Although Leech making a 3 person wagon on the most active person to promote activity is kind of insane.

Oh look, Thatguy jumps onto another opportunistic wagon, and refuses to provide reasoning.

Really not liking Leech's WIFOM reasoning for being town. It seems like the whole thing was designed to let him WIFOM defend himself.

Ythans attacking of Magna looks pretty similar to what he's accusing Grid of doing. Seems out of character for Ythan, but I've only got a very small sample size here.

Ooba, clear active-lurking now. The vote on me at least had original reasoning. The vote on Thatguy is simply following the flow, providing no reasoning until pushed, and is his 3rd post for the entire day.

Ythan's rundown posts, pretty clear indication of style over substance, they provide very little of substance on actual scumminess, and in some cases are clear misrepresentations. Ythan is looking more and more like scum attempting very hard to look town.

Leech is still up there. The vote on Ythan and subsequent backpeddling look incredibly scummy. The speed with which he fell back on WIFOM for being town makes it look quite contrived, and the excuse that it'd generate discussion is anti-town unless Leech is himself scum.

Would lynch any of these 4, vote stays on Thatguy.

Note the accusation of clear-active lurking when its been about a day from my last post. Regarding the lack of posts during the early part of the day, I already posted my V\LA status and did not make any other posts in that period.

-

Possible coaching?

The request for a claim... I personally think that he's pretty much definitely not a PR. Upset newbie townie I could see, but newbie PR in this role tends to be even more indignant, with 'you'll be sorry' types of posts, we've all seen them.

Possibly mentoring thatguy not to claim a PR?

I realize the only point against my case is the fact that Sando has voted thatguy00 on page 5 and has kept that vote for the majority of the day. But I guess he'll switch his vote as the deadline looms closer.

I'd be up for lynching either thatguy00 or Sando today.

[Fate]

Ooba doesn't get all pissy about my vote?
Sounds like a towntell to me.

Unvote

Vote: Thatguy00

Sando, you have kept your vote on him all day. Thoughts about anyone else? If you're keeping it on him, who is he likely scum with? Ythan?

[Ythan]

If ooba doesn't feel that your vote is going anywhere then it shouldn't be difficult for him to remain cool over it regardless of his alignment.

[Konowa]

Back from V/LA.
Catching up in all my games now.

[Konowa]

Sando, you have kept your vote on him all day. Thoughts about anyone else? If you're keeping it on him, who is he likely scum with? Ythan?

I would like horror to answer this question too.
@horror: You random voted thatguy and have kept your vote on him all day. The only post where it remotely looks like you confirm, and I use that word lightly, your vote of thatguy is where you say "I would like to hear more from thatguy and why he can only OMGUS" (iso post 12). I would like to hear your thoughts on thatguy's outburst. I would also like to hear, without an appeal to page number, who you think scum is.

@Magna: Who is scum? Your lack of stance on just about everyone bothers me.

More in a bit.

---

@Mod: dana is not going to be back till after the deadline. Is it possible to replace him?

[xRECKONERx]

I can begin looking, but I don't want to extend deadline again and I've already replaced like four people.

[Konowa]

One more thing for the time being; I will finish up tomorrow.

@Leech: If you still believe that statement, regarding Fate, why have you not followed up on your vote of Fate?

[horrordude0215]

I would like horror to answer this question too.
@horror: You random voted thatguy and have kept your vote on him all day. The only post where it remotely looks like you confirm, and I use that word lightly, your vote of thatguy is where you say "I would like to hear more from thatguy and why he can only OMGUS" (iso post 12). I would like to hear your thoughts on thatguy's outburst. I would also like to hear, without an appeal to page number, who you think scum is.

I see his post as more of frustrated townie more than cornered scum. For that,

Unvote

.

I'm in the middle of ISO reads, and will hopefully have a good vote by wednesday or thursday, as I have a game with a deadline tomorrow that needs my attention a little more than this one.

[Sando]

Fate: I've outlined the 4 people I'd lynch: Thatguy, Ooba, Ythan, Leech. Of those, none are distinct from Thatguy in terms of them being mutually exclusive as scum.

Ythan has been chainsawing me pretty hard, but he seems to be doing that to everyone. It's mainly the sheer stupidity of most of his accusations that makes me think scum, noone could actually rationally think what he's spewing onto the page.

Ooba has been obviously active lurking, his first real post contains a vote on me for being 'opportunistic' in my vote on Thatguy, based purely off the order of voting. His second real post (4th in total at this point) jumps onto the Thatguy wagon because his play is apparently similar to someone in a previous game. No real reasoning on how it is similar, it just is apparently. Added to the fact that he opportunistically jumps onto the biggest BW, something he accuses me of doing. He accuses me of being ready to back away from my vote because I've stated that I'd lynch other people, yet himself names another person he's willing to lynch.

Leech I've outline a few times, it's based off the motivation and reaction from his voting of Ythan to generate conversation. Leech isn't particularly linked to Thatguy really, I think he's more independently scummy.


Ooba's 'case' on me for Thatguy/Sando seems entirely predicated on me removing my vote later.

Ooba, questions for you:
- What would Thatguy flipping town tell you about me?
- What would me flipping town tell you about Thatguy?
- What would me lynching a scum Thatguy tell you about me?

You don't seem to have addressed any of these, purely focussed on the idea that Thatguy is scum and that I will try and stop his lynch.

And yes, I will consistently through D1 advise who I am willing to lynch, I have consistently provided reasoning for all of these. My vote stays on Thatguy because I want pressure on him and I think he is the best lynch at the moment.

[Ythan]

I've been chainsawing, have I? That's too bold an accusation to one-off without some sort of support, and I'd like to see that from you now.

[Ythan]

Sando, instead of ever making any real arguments against me, ever, you just carry on with your idiotic bullshit to the effect that I should be lynched in the absence of any intelligent case from you but instead just through constant moronic blithering. I don't think you're a stupid stupid townie, I think you're a very poor scum player.

vote Sando

And it's staying there as long as you keep up your stupid, scummy, fluffy, no-content play style.

[Leech]

@Leech: If you still believe that statement, regarding Fate, why have you not followed up on your vote of Fate?

What do you mean? I did vote for him. In fact, that is where my vote is currently sitting. I still think he is the best bet, after all that has happened. He's not really scum hunting, at all. Just look at his plays:

Ding ding ding?

We have a winner?

His immediate response to Thatguy's outburst.

Defeatist attitude. Leaning on null-tell for it.

At the time it was happening it clearly appears that he was for lynching Thatguy. Now that others have spoken against it, his attitude is that it's a null-tell. Fate words a lot of his posts in the manner that it looks like he could be kidding, or not. Its an advantageous position to be in if you're scum due to being able to brush off your ideas if they don't take off, and easily back them if they do.

@Ythan: Is your comment about Sando's "scummy, fluffy no-content" play style in reference to how he's responding to you, or everyone?

[Ythan]

To me. He's making what can pass as believable, though not really meaningful, points or questions at the players he isn't currently attempting to portray as scum. As poor as his attempts toward me are, it would just be moronic to direct it at two players.

[Leech]

That's why your posts are kind of misleading, then. If you look at how he's replying to other people, he is adding content and asking meaningful questions. Your post seems, rather, ill-timed after his recent post against Ooba.

This quote, in particular, looks like actual content to me:

Ooba has been obviously active lurking, his first real post contains a vote on me for being 'opportunistic' in my vote on Thatguy, based purely off the order of voting. His second real post (4th in total at this point) jumps onto the Thatguy wagon because his play is apparently similar to someone in a previous game. No real reasoning on how it is similar, it just is apparently. Added to the fact that he opportunistically jumps onto the biggest BW, something he accuses me of doing. He accuses me of being ready to back away from my vote because I've stated that I'd lynch other people, yet himself names another person he's willing to lynch.

I agree with many of the points he made here. So, in my eyes, you are brushing off everything he's saying, solely due to how he's posting against you. I think your interaction with Sando is making you disregard the valid points he's making when it is relating to other people. If I'm wrong, would you mind telling me why you either agree or disagree with his case on Ooba?

[Ythan]

I actually address the things he says. If that's something you tend to have a problem with you should spend more time reading his posts, where you'll get your fill. As for his bit against ooba, I didn't say I disagreed. It's not meaningful because it's not going anywhere and he's just maintaining an appearance of not tunneling.

[Fate]

Ok, a lot of people are posting meaningful posts.

Let's lynch one of the useless ones:

McGriddle? Nah. Even though he usually posts more often this to reaffirm his uselessness instead of lurking.

Thatguy00? Yes!

Danakillsu? Thanks for replacing in only to go VLA and for us to have 0 read on your slot come D2...

*scrolls up to player list*

Havingfitz? Who the hell is this? POST PLEASE.

[Leech]

Havingfitz? Who the hell is this? POST PLEASE.

I second that.

[Ythan]

Do you have any specific questions for Fitz or do you just want to seem active?

[thatguy00]

Hey dudes, I've been reading over, I need to do a little more isoing and I'll be getting something up tomorrow, I have not quit the game or anything, expect something from me tomorrow.

[Fate]

Another game ended where McGriddle was right.

I swear there's a type of players (Vaya is in here too if you've played with him) that are "Psychic scumbags" they can't help but get themselves lynched but their reads are always spot on.

McGriddle, get in here and tell us your scum reads FFS.