Newbie 955 - Game over

[Exemption]

kingcod (1) Cirno
(No vote) redtail896, Exemption, Adaham, Me=Weird, LobsterCatapult, kingcod
7 alive; 4 votes lynch.

Hmm I think it has something to do with trying to look town.
I jut noticed it in the wiki and thought it must be one. Think it is only small though

[Cirno]

Just really quick: can somebody please explain to me why complaining about the doctor loss is a scumtell? Even if it's a single line throwaway comment?

Newbies often rely on the wiki, which contains articles such as 'how to find the doctor!' and lists of common scumtells. Unfortunately, the wiki doesn't often explain

why

something is scummy so newbies end up using 'the wiki said so' as an explanation. I've seen this particular tell used before by experienced players against experienced players, and it was actually accurate in finding scum. But in a newbie game, I don't think anyone should rely on such a tell.

[kingcod]

can somebody please explain to me why complaining about the doctor loss is a scumtell

Its not IMO

The kingcod case has been almost done to death at this point

Admit it , there is no new scum material about me is there? Thats because I am town and have been working to weed out scum.

Well Hoopla being town means that we can trust in her statement that she thinks LobsterCatapult and Rayfrost (now Cirno) are town. She also said the Valkyrie was town, however that was based on the way other people were acting towards her. Seen as one of the people who was making her look scum is now confirmed town we can't really trust this.

You mean, therefore, that none of Hoopla's statements amount to more than anyone elses at that point in the game ...? I think you were trying to build something useful at the start fo the paragraph but your own logic defeated the first statement? Not a criticism - been there plenty of times myself!

++++ In another part of the forest +++++
The Adaham and Cirno scumteam scenario is looking better. Adaham's enormous dissection of Cirno and Cirno's feisty response could be one giant puppet show for the benefit of town to show how distanced they are from each other. Despite all their mutual disrespect and trash talk neither of them deign to suggest each other is scum. The scum list they have between them is Lobster, Me and Exemption. Each of us has demonstrated some newbie weaknesses.

I would like to see some more tentative votes placed as we are getting lost in a wall of text. How would a vote on Adaham go down?

[Me=Weird]

Complaining about losing the doc can be a small scum-tell, as the scum would want to appear regretful. But, in newbie games at least, I don't pay much regard to it. Now, there are a few possibilities about exemption right now.
1. He actually is the(assuming there is one) cop, and did get roleblocked.
2. He's a VT and for some reason claimed cop to avoid getting lynched, and is a liar. Some people have a lynch-all-liars policy.
3. He's scum in a goon-goon team, took a risk and claimed cop hoping(correctly) that there is a doc.
4. He's scum in a roleblocker team, and took a risk of getting counter claimed(for this reason, I believe he would be the goon if it's this situation) to draw out the cop(once again, assuming there is one).

I believe it's one of the latter two. Incidentally, if it's a goon-goon situation, he knows he is safe from counter-claims and can continue to say he's roleblocked, because if there's a cop and doc, there is a roleblocker.

It is possible cirno was making excuses for not being logical when he said he would be playing with gut only this game.

[Cirno]

Despite all their mutual disrespect and trash talk neither of them deign to suggest each other is scum.

I am now willing lynch Adaham along with Exemption and Kingcod.

Lobsters comment wasn´t scummy...compared to what you [Cirno] are pulling off right now!

Anyway, ISO is back, so I can make my case. I'll get it done sometime tomorrow.

[redtail896]

Admit it , there is no new scum material about me is there? Thats because I am town and have been working to weed out scum.

Adaham has been in and out of the scumzone, and could have collaborated with Cirno/RayFrost to split their votes between Exemption and Equinox, leaving town to fumble about stringing up Hoopla. I need to see more play from Cirno to pick up the style, but my guess is that immediately relaunching a wagon against me could be a tactic to encourage others not to start a fresh scum hunt. Alternatively it could be just being lazy as Cirno has admitted!

I don't see that Adaham has been "in and out of the scumzone," a claim that you don't really back up. Also, the plan that you've suggested here is a tad farfetched in my mind (although I'd like to hear other people's comments on it). Although I concede, the wishy-washyness and following of the crowd that I saw yesterday seems to have gone. I would appreciate a full case on Adaham or Cirno though.

Also, the second-to-last sentence of that paragraph comes dangerously close in my mind to saying, "If you vote for me, you must not want to investigate anyone else and are therefore scum." Cirno's vote for you has clearly not impeded her ability to scumhunt for example.

I'm just illustrating the point that I have not run out of things to talk about here. But everybody knows my opinion on this matter, and I'll update it as events warrant. I'm more interested in other people's opinions towards you, so I can convince or be convinced by them. For example: Cirno, why is kingcod scum in your mind?

[Adaham]

1. "I need to see more play from Cirno to pick up the style, but my guess is that immediately relaunching a wagon against me could be a tactic to encourage others not to start a fresh scum hunt. Alternatively it could be just being lazy as Cirno has admitted!"
That´s exactly what my thought was. Read my WoT

2. I´ve given more than once and more than plenty explanataion for why I did regard the comment of Lobster about losing our dog scummy. That was not because I was reading the Wiki, and it was neither because I was using any other programme that helps me creating my own statistics. And as I said earlier, I do not dismiss statistical knowledge in general, I just mentioned that it is a two-edged sword. I do use my own statistical experience for my own reasons, but I dislike if somebody comes in saying that my experience is wrong because I (or the player I´m targetting) am too noob to apply the logic here, or because I´m not using some programme that helps me dissecting posts.

In the end, the opinions whether this one line of Lobster was a scumtell are roughly 50/50 divided, which is maybe understandable, but I can´t approve of the way Cirno is starting his own witchhunt based on dismissing this argument (he neglects all those people that strangely enough agree that this was a scumtell).

The reason I am not jumping at Cirno right now is the fact that out of such a dogfight (and I´m sure it´s no coincidence Cirno picked me like this and pushed my buttons) it would always look like OMGUS and I want my accusations to be credible. I´d only like to say that more than most others that pride themselves to knowing how this is played, I´ve explained every little fart of mine from 5 different perspectives, while some get along just saying "kingcod is scum, he just is".

To be honest, I´m still not convinced Cirno is scum. He´s twisting logic to serve his purpose, but I´m thinking right now he´s doing that to create pressure on me and see what happens.

To those that accuse Cirno and me of putting up a show, let it be told that I have only said that I´m curious to see his contributions (due to Rayfrost...and others have said the same), when he started "questioning" me. I´ve replied to that as elaborately as I deemed it necessary. Mind you, none of that business excludes either one of us from scumdom, but this just looks again like other preferred lynch targets (kingcod, exemption) are hoping somebody else catches on.

[Me=Weird]

All these long posts are depressing me.
Won't be able to post today, but monday should reveal content.

[Exemption]

Lol same long post are a tad annoying.
Still content is nice =]

[quote='kingcod]You mean, therefore, that none of Hoopla's statements amount to more than anyone elses at that point in the game ...? I think you were trying to build something useful at the start fo the paragraph but your own logic defeated the first statement? Not a criticism - been there plenty of times myself! [/quote]

hmm I don't really understand that comment. I just said that I could of put one more person on the list but developments in the game have changed mine, and probably the person making them's view. So they are not included. I didn't intend to say anything to make less of those two being town. Sorry if it came across that way.

at this post (it doesn't have numbers anymore ) why do you think it's one of those two?

[Cirno]

Sorry for not getting my case done yesterday. I've done most of it (up to Kingcod's Hoopla case), and will finish it tonight.

Also, I like how the guys complaining about long posts are the same people not posting anything at all. I'll be padding my case to spite you guys.

[redtail896]

Alright. Discussion seems to be lagging, so I'm going to try to kickstart it. Besides, I've been tossing this around in my head for a bit now.

VOTE: kingcod

The Cirno-Adaham scumteam is a bit farfetched I think, and I still haven't seen a real case from you about it. You seem to theorize that everything that's happening today is a grand conspiracy on the part of the mafia, but I don't buy it. You also encourage everyone else to vote while not committing to a vote yourself.

As for the other scum spot, I admit that the discussion today has brought LobsterCatapult more the forefront of my thoughts. On the one hand, I don't see the throwaway doctor comment as scummy. On the other hand, I also see the same straddling both sides of issues in Lobster (rereading day 1). It's subtler though. I'd also like to see more from Me=Weird: who are your top picks?

[Cirno]

So I scrapped what I was doing yesterday and threw this together. This is much more concise anyway.

Why Kingcod Is Scum

-He bandwagons Sandman with little explanation other than 'Not Liking Sandman's recent posts'
-He feigns scumhunting with two questions that are either utterly useless, or of more use to mafia.
When Adaham suggests as much, Kingcod uses the scummy defense of 'No one has to answer!' and, in regards to his second question, 'There are plenty of other reasons why someone might remark on the capabilities of their fellow townies. '. He does not list even one.
-In the same post he tries to drum up support for a sandman wagon while commenting on how town-like the more
active players are.
-Lists hoopla as a suspect despite never previously showing any suspicion of her. Note that his suspects are Sandman (the doctor and target of the experienced players), Hoopla (the IC), and Valkyrie (the lurker).
-Unvotes sandman after Redtail replaces in and suggests that the wagon is weak. He also begins to focus on Hoopla, who also happened to be Redtail's suspect at the time.
-Builds a scummy case against Hoopla. The reasons for voting Hoopla including behaving like an IC, voting someone she is suspicious of, and trying to "limit scum hunting through proper discourse in a newbie game with the fallacious opinion that less is more.". What Hoopla actually did was suggest ending the day before discussion died as in her experience (and she has a lot), a longer day one is more of a hindrance than a help.
-He suggests a No Lynch.
-He constantly writes these kind of lines:
"I won't comment on the first bit, but the second point is giving me the jitters. Or is it just me?"
"Scum might join a bandwagon, but scum might also want to spread the votes as wide as possible to create confusion. Any ideas?"
"Its looking to be either a scummy act or a newbie miscalculation"
-He drives this.

I've changed my mind about Exemption, but only because reading Kingcod's posts causes me to believe that they are not scumbuddies.

Avatar related. It's Kingcod.

[LobsterCatapult]

Alright. Discussion seems to be lagging, so I'm going to try to kickstart it. Besides, I've been tossing this around in my head for a bit now.

VOTE: kingcod

The Cirno-Adaham scumteam is a bit farfetched I think, and I still haven't seen a real case from you about it. You seem to theorize that everything that's happening today is a grand conspiracy on the part of the mafia, but I don't buy it. You also encourage everyone else to vote while not committing to a vote yourself.

i agree with your opinions on what kingcod is doing, i think he is trying to deflect more so than come up with an actual case that ray/cirno and adaham are scumbuddies. i didnt get any interaction between him and ray d1, even though ray was pretty inactive. i think he is more so trying to point fingers to throw discussion off him.

i still havent made up my decision on cirno. the whole adaham/cirno bickering i think has helped town just get discussion going and getting different cases and points into light, i dont see it as 2 scums bussing each other or putting on a show.

[Me=Weird]

Cirno was pinging my scumdar a bit, so I investigated(not cop, did an ISO) him.
In his first post, he says he will be playing by gut this game. Which could be an excuse for future crap-logic. I believe I mentioned this before, but it deserves a spot in a case on him.
Right, there are three scum. If you're going to list more than to suspects, state the priority.
You've delivered nothing. Not good. Continues not to deliver anything. Not gooder.
Shows some quotes that don't make sense.
Promises a case. Makes some non-sensical comment on how "he would be padding his case to spite us", which I took to mean he would make it a long post.
Delivers a case.
Incidentally, he said he would have a case up "in a day or two" about week before he actually makes his case. I find slightly scummy, but not my best lead.

[kingcod]

@Cirno - You join the game with a lynch candidate and spend the next 8 days working towards why your very first post contains the correct victim.
Elegant though the case is presented its really a selective hotchpotch of circumstance, non sequitor and ommission.

He bandwagons Sandman with little explanation other than 'Not Liking Sandman's recent posts'

I was the second person to vote.. and this makes me a bandwagoneer (bandwagonista?)?

-He feigns scumhunting with two questions that are either utterly useless, or of more use to mafia.

Plenty of questions been asked by plenty of players. Few will result in useful information. I doubt scum got anything from them

When Adaham suggests as much, Kingcod uses the scummy defense of 'No one has to answer!'

Really? Scummy?

and, in regards to his second question, 'There are plenty of other reasons why someone might remark on the capabilities of their fellow townies. '. He does not list even one.

Oh come on - use your imagination (ah wait.. I think you have) If every post here was an elegantly constructed essay we would be still playing next year!

-In the same post he tries to drum up support for a sandman wagon while commenting on how town-like the more
active players are.

Wrong. Show me where I do this.

-Lists hoopla as a suspect despite never previously showing any suspicion of her. Note that his suspects are Sandman (the doctor and target of the experienced players), Hoopla (the IC), and Valkyrie (the lurker).

I'm noting ... but not seeing a pattern. Its now also scummy in your world to suggest new lines of enquiry ?

-Unvotes sandman after Redtail replaces in and suggests that the wagon is weak. He also begins to focus on Hoopla, who also happened to be Redtail's suspect at the time.

... your point being ..? You are now just narrating the game ...

-Builds a scummy case against Hoopla. The reasons for voting Hoopla including behaving like an IC, voting someone she is suspicious of, and trying to "limit scum hunting through proper discourse in a newbie game with the fallacious opinion that less is more.". What Hoopla actually did was suggest ending the day before discussion died as in her experience (and she has a lot), a longer day one is more of a hindrance than a help.

I wasn't alone in making this kind of comment. Misjudging Hoopla was a mistake made by 4 others. As I said at the beginning of that post "This has been a difficult choice to make. As I suggested earlier this is a tough crowd to read (so well done everyone) and the main lynch contenders are not stacking up for me right now"
Allow me to contrast with "Kingcod is scum. He just is. I'm going to try to get him lynched"

-He suggests a No Lynch.

It might have saved Hoopla.

-He constantly writes these kind of lines:
"I won't comment on the first bit, but the second point is giving me the jitters. Or is it just me?"
"Scum might join a bandwagon, but scum might also want to spread the votes as wide as possible to create confusion. Any ideas?"
"Its looking to be either a scummy act or a newbie miscalculation"

You forgot to add the doom-laden background music. I don't see what is so sinister about these - unlike you I am looking for the views of others in forming an opinion.

-He drives this.

Ok. You got me there. Its fully insured though.

So, if you have made it this far in my response, have a fat cigar.
Why has Cirno played like this?
- Chose an easy target as I have been mentioned previously
- Was determined to show drive and determination in getting his man following his first prophetic post a week ago
- But waited a week to see how warmly his rickety ISO would be received. Promised it Sunday and delivered it Tuesday ... after redtail chose to vote on me thus giving him a respectable ally (Redtail is town)

Cirno's objective is to whack another townie since I consider Cirno scum for the above 3 points. More scummy than Adaham, who may or may not be part of the team.

vote Cirno

[Cirno]

Hello, Me=Weird. May I call you Weird, for short? I'm Cirno. I understand you have some misgivings about me. I will try to clear them up.

If you're going to list more than to suspects, state the priority.

Let's use a tiny bit of brain power, yes? I believe in my first post I stated 'Kingcod is scum. He just is.'. I also stated that I would try to get him lynched. I

also

stated that I would build a case on him in particular. I believe that from these we can assume that my top suspect was Kingcod, followed by Exemption. Adaham came under suspicion later, and I ignored Exemption, so there may be some confusion there. At the time, Adaham and Exemption were equally scummy. As of right now, I doubt either of them are scum.

Shows some quotes that don't make sense.

I was trying to demonstrate the Kingcod was speaking nonsense. The first quote is Kingcod claiming that though Adaham and I went back and forth, we never claimed to suspect one another. The following two quotes prove otherwise.

Makes some non-sensical comment on [padding]

I used padding in the third sense listed here, sir. It was a joke about making my post longer to spite the people complaining about long posts.

If you have any more questions, let me know. In the meantime, I have some questions for you, sir.

What do you think about Kingcod?
What do you think about the players on the Hoopla wagon?
Who are your top three suspects and why?

[Adaham]

Good we´ve got some discussion from different sides. At the moment I feel that kingcod has been in the air too long to let him go, as he´ll probably be a topic as long as he is around. With the Exemption case in the air, I´m feeling that kingcod is the most solid case, even though I think that Ray/Cirno has done it´s share of scummy behaviour. Depending on the information we get out of lynching one of those two, we can start looking for packmates. We´ll also see what happens to our "seer" as things go on.

redtail is a good player and I like how I thinks, but I´m sometimes worried that he´s playing a trick on us, as I deem it possible from his playing style. He picks up good things here and there and knows how to create a sound case, but I´m worried that he´s so good he could do that as well as a villain. If kingcod (and maybe Cirno) turn out innocent, we are being seriously tricked by the mafia, and I might have to reconsider, but obviously that´s still far away.

As kingcod has been on my mind since pretty much the beginning, I really want to know know. What do others think in the kingcod vs. Cirno issue? Or is there maybe still anybody who believes to make a case on Exemption or anybody else?

vote: kingcod

[Cirno]

Hello, Kingcod! There is nothing I like more than a battle! I'd like to warn you, sir, that you are attempting to engage in a quote war with a quote war veteran. I have ruined many a game with quote wars that rage on for 10 pages at a time, causing those not involved in the war to become less and less enthused about the game with each post. Unfortunately, my wits are often inferior to that of my opponent, so I don't often win those wars. This will not dissuade me from attempting to do battle with you, however.

I was the second person to vote.. and this makes me a bandwagoneer (bandwagonista?)?

You were the third person to vote, sir. After Hoopla the IC and RayFrost the eternal SE. And yes, following the IC and SE onto a wagon with only "Not Liking Sandman's recent posts" would be considered bandwagoning.

Plenty of questions been asked by plenty of players. Few will result in useful information. I doubt scum got anything from them

Plenty of question were asked, but none so as blatantly useless as those, sir. I'm not arguing that they weren't of any use

in the end

. I'm arguing that they

could not possibly

be of any use to town whatsoever.

Really? Scummy?

Yes, sir, I believe the defense is scummy. You asked useless question. Adaham called you out on it. You respond with 'No one has to answer'. It is a cop out.

Oh come on - use your imagination (ah wait.. I think you have) If every post here was an elegantly constructed essay we would be still playing next year!

I'm not asking you write an essay, I'm asking you to give an example rather than just saying 'there are plenty of reasons!'.

Wrong. Show me where I do this.

The post I was referring to is this one. In that post, you go on about how you agree than Hoopla and Adaham are townlike (along with a 'Its [...] a pity Adaham got it wrong voting on me! '), while accusing Sandman of tunneling.

I'm noting ... but not seeing a pattern. Its now also scummy in your world to suggest new lines of enquiry ?

The pattern is that all of your suspects are the people one would expect scum to target. Hoopla, who is the IC and likely one of the most competent players. Sandman, the newbie who the experienced players are already attacking. Valkyrie, the lurker, a wagon likely to have very little resistance. Also, you did not suggest a new line of inquiry, sir. You stated that the IC was one of your top three suspects out of the blue, and that is completely different.

... your point being ..? You are now just narrating the game ...

I am suggesting that when you saw Redtail attacking Hoopla, you thought it was a good chance to get the IC lynched.

I wasn't alone in making this kind of comment. Misjudging Hoopla was a mistake made by 4 others. As I said at the beginning of that post "This has been a difficult choice to make. As I suggested earlier this is a tough crowd to read (so well done everyone) and the main lynch contenders are not stacking up for me right now"

Ah, the "It wasn't just me!" defense. Yes, four others voted for Hoopla. And of them, only one (Redtail) had a proper reason for doing so. The difference is that only one of the voters on the Hoopla wagon made a case so scummy that I wrote 'Scum. Lynch him.' in my notes.

It might have saved Hoopla.

And the suggestion would still have been just as scummy.

You forgot to add the doom-laden background music. I don't see what is so sinister about these - unlike you I am looking for the views of others in forming an opinion.

What you are doing is spreading wifom and seeding suspicion without commitment.

But waited a week to see how warmly his rickety ISO would be received. Promised it Sunday and delivered it Tuesday ... after redtail chose to vote on me thus giving him a respectable ally (Redtail is town)

Yes, sir. I was waiting for Redtail to vote before making my case. I am certain that I could have gotten away with 'lol I changed my mind' after promising to make a case against you at least twice and calling you the single scummiest player in the game. And it was not like Redtail had already stated that he was down for a Kincod lynch or anything. You got me there, sir.

Okay, your turn. Let us keep this up until we can get Adaham to complain about the length of the posts.

[Adaham]

I´m not complaining, I´ve been the hated quote-war guy on other forums, so don´t worry about me, I´m enjoying the read.

[redtail896]

I am too. Mostly because I want to see kingcod's response. A couple of notes though.

Ah, the "It wasn't just me!" defense. Yes, four others voted for Hoopla. And of them, only one (Redtail) had a proper reason for doing so. The difference is that only one of the voters on the Hoopla wagon made a case so scummy that I wrote 'Scum. Lynch him.' in my notes.

To be 100% fair, I

was

anti-Hoopla. I genuinely thought she had a good chance of turning scum. Of course, at 20 minutes to deadline, I'd vote just about anybody. And really, that's the point kingcod. By lynching Hoopla, we got more information, which is informing our decisions today. A no lynch is a bad idea (I know I'm not alone in thinking this; it's pretty well documented and the general consensus on this forum).

Or is there maybe still anybody who believes to make a case on Exemption or anybody else?

Exemption is a tricky business in my mind. On the one hand, he was near the top of my list before the roleclaim. And it's an easy roleclaim to fake; risky, but is only hope of surviving. It's just too easy for it to go either way. I don't like the immediate jump on LC's doctor comment for a few reasons (1. I don't think it's a scumtell; 2. He didn't say anything beyond another throwaway comment). I'd like more content from him today. Also:

I agree with Equinox I'm getting the feeling that Kingcod is town.

I know you're not the only one who thinks this, but I'm curious about your reasoning.

redtail is a good player and I like how I thinks, but I´m sometimes worried that he´s playing a trick on us, as I deem it possible from his playing style. He picks up good things here and there and knows how to create a sound case, but I´m worried that he´s so good he could do that as well as a villain.

[kingcod]

I have ruined many a game with quote wars that rage on for 10 pages at a time, causing those not involved in the war to become less and less enthused about the game with each post.

... and I think one of the reasons you might be doing this is to get me lynched more easily and dissuade wider scum hunting when this is really what town needs to do.

On the rest of your responses to my response most of it is WIFOM so not worth the argument with you (sorry to disappoint) - as an example

The pattern is that all of your suspects are the people one would expect scum to target

meh.

This is interesting though (don't you think Redtail) on the Hoopla vote?:

Ah, the "It wasn't just me!" defense. Yes, four others voted for Hoopla. And of them, only one (Redtail) had a proper reason for doing so.

Does this make you think that Cirno is wise and perceptive or just sucking up to Redtail? What constitutes a 'proper reason'? We ALL 4 voters gave reasons - they were ALL wrong!

Lobster and Exemption - what do you make of whats going on?

[redtail896]

On the rest of your responses to my response most of it is WIFOM so not worth the argument with you (sorry to disappoint)

You're essentially giving up? I assure you that I can be reasoned with.

Does this make you think that Cirno is wise and perceptive or just sucking up to Redtail? What constitutes a 'proper reason'? We ALL 4 voters gave reasons - they were ALL wrong!

I believe the proper reason she is referring to is the fact that we were 25 minutes before deadline, I was apparently the only person online who hadn't voted for Hoopla, and I had to leave. So I hammered. I don't regret it either, given the situation (I regret that we didn't get you lynched earlier in the day).

Although, I'm interested in your comments on the general Hoopla case, Cirno.

[Cirno]

Can you be more specific as to what you are asking? Are you asking what I think of the wagon?

The wagon consisted of the following people: kingcod, Exemption, Equinox, Me=Weird, redtail896

Kingcod is by far the worst. His case and other behavior convinced me that he was scum.

Exemption's vote was also bad. He first voted Hoopla while in the same post claiming that he had a null read towards her. He changed his vote and later re-voted Hoopla saying that his vote "would be here if it wasn't for the necessity of a lynch.". Keep in mind that he didn't have any kind of reason for voting Hoopla in the first place. This, combined with my suspicions of Adumbro and some of Exemption's rather odd behavior made him my top suspect after Kingcod.

Equinox has already flipped.

Me=Weird voted Hoopla by essentially quoting Equinox and saying "I agree.". I believed Valkyrie to be newbie town, so I haven't been paying much attention to Me=Weird. However, looking back, Me=Weird had previously been the one to put Kingcod at L-1 and has contributed very little else for the entire game. I am inclined to look into him next.

Redtail has previously stated proper reasons for suspecting Hoopla even without the deadline and of all those on the wagon I find him to be the towniest. sailorpallas also reads like newbie town to me.

This post is copied from Notepad++, so the formatting may be broken.

[Cirno]

your responses to my response most of it is WIFOM

I think one of the reasons you might be doing this is to get me lynched more easily and dissuade wider scum hunting when this is really what town needs to do.

sucking up to Redtail

This is interesting though (don't you think Redtail)

Redtail is town

...We have a lot in common.

[kingcod]

You're essentially giving up?

No, I'm just not giving Cirno a permanent spotlight on a fruitless recycling of very old material when I have addressed it all previously. If there is something you are particularly keen to see re-addressed I would be glad to oblige, or if there is something new to ask I am glad to give some fresh insight.