Mini 986: Beatles Mafia (Game Over)

[petroleumjelly]

Day Two Vote Count: #2

3 - muh316 (danakillsu, Karma, Zang)
2 - Karma (Anon, The Skeward)
1 - danakillsu (muh316)
1 - Scott Brosius (VasudeVa)
1 - Zang (Shadow Dancer)

With

9

alive, it takes

5

to lynch, and

3

to lynch at deadline. Deadline is July 19, at 9:00 pm PDT.

Not Voting - 1 - Scott Brosius

[Zang]

@Zang: Then I did not understand you correctly. Please explain again - in your own words - for what exact reasons you resigned from the monkey waggon.

I don't think I was on the monkey wagon. But I didn't think starbuck should have been lynched for something monkey did and that she deserved a chance to catch up.

[Anon]

and Zang (I really really find it hard that a player of his level - no offense - could be able to read Starbuck play as town play

.
I never said she was town because of her play.

So why was she town?

What exactly is the case on muh316?
Skeward and Zang, why arent you voting?

General unhelpfulness, being the hammer for a lame reason. This is the main slipup

Can you quote or explain how has he been unhelfpul? Also how can a hammer at deadline be a lame reason?

Um...what?

Scumlist in your following post.

I know it's not scummy but I believe it was just too early to get a lynch and a roleclaim just after 24 hours after the day.

WAT. Why are you voting for not scummy actions?

@Zang: Then I did not understand you correctly. Please explain again - in your own words - for what exact reasons you resigned from the monkey waggon.

I don't think I was on the monkey wagon. But I didn't think starbuck should have been lynched for something monkey did and that she deserved a chance to catch up.

Ok, this is getting ridiculous. You thought Monkey was scum, yes or no?

[danakillsu]

@muh316
I didn't want you lynched yet, I wanted a claim. I didn't think town should get this much pressure on someone only to turn it off without a claim. I half-agree with those saying the muh case isn't a great one. But I want to see if it has validity by judging your claim. If you delay much longer, I'll begin to think that what we eventually get is your own fakeclaim.

[Shadow Dancer]

@muh: But you said that there is not case to "make an impact on". You better get your reasoning straight.

@zang: So you weren't on the star waggon for meta reasons:
i) Not judging Star on sth. monkey did (why not?)
ii) Giving Star a chance to catch up (fair enough, I generally agree on this one)

But later you stated explicitely that you did not think Star was scum!

Proof (straight from zang's ISO):

Tommorow we lynch inhim.

Because I'm pretty sure she's town.

Because i have no reason to suspect her as scum and it seems scum driven.

Note: This was before Star officially flipped town.

I'll leave that matter unresolved for now, I think I need to think about what it means a bit myself... But if it wasn't already clear any way:

FoS Zang

[danakillsu]

Also

FoS: Zang

.
This was what I was referring to when I spoke of the thoughts bouncing around in my head. I will enlighten those who haven't figured it out after the muh issue has been resolved.

[TheSkeward]

danakillsu, what do you mean by 'after the muh issue has been resolved'?

[VasudeVa]

Still waiting on Scott~

---

I don't get the case on Karma. Can you explain it in more that one sentence? Although my read on Karma has drastically changed since his admission to being an alt. Here I thought he was a newbie brawling with dana.

[TheSkeward]

VV: Just read my post. Look at the way he's playing - he's opportunistic, he acts way too certain on too little evidence, etc.

[muh316]

I'm just saying that a vote just gets the game going, which you are clearly seeing.

[Shadow Dancer]

@muh: Classic - "

Something

happened - see I

am

right!!!" - not.

[Scott Brosius]

1. I don't think the muh case is "retarded". How has he been a VI? He stated he wanted to give Star a fair chance and hammered him 2 days later. If he actually wanted to give him a chance, lobbying for an extension makes more sense than hammering.
2. I didn't want a lynch in <24 hours on D2? This is a huge stretch if you think this is scummy.
3. I mentioned there could be a SK/vig once. I have not seen anyone distracted by it.
4. NK speculation is usually distracting more than anything. After my own opinion, I value the opinion of dead confirmed townies next. Star and inhim provided nothing, so I trust eKim's opinion second most in this game. His suspicion of muh just adds to my suspicions.

Can you quote or explain how has he been unhelfpul? Also how can a hammer at deadline be a lame reason?

The only scum-hunting has been his one list of scum which was basically the general scum sentiments of the town. The second part to this is answered above.

[muh316]

lobbying for an extension makes more sense than hammering.

The mod stated himself that he wouldn't extend the deadline. There was no way we could have gotten an extension.

[muh316]

sorry for double post but
@scott
I never said that I thought it was scummy, I just said that a vote makes a larger impact on the game and discussion. It's not like my vote would get dana lynched.

[Zang]

i) Not judging Star on sth. monkey did (why not?)

Because I didn't think she should have been lynched Completely off of what monkey did.

However, I'm not saying that what monkey did shouldn't have been considered with lynching starbuck if she was also scummy.

But later you stated explicitely that you did not think Star was scum!

look at the reasons why I said I thought she was town, they are related to the reasons for me being off the wagon.

[danakillsu]

@The Skeward
Well, one of four things can happen.
1. Everyone just leaves the muh wagon and jumps on Zang or someone else.
2. muh finally claims and we jump on Zang because we are satisfied with muh's claim.
3. muh finally claims and we lynch him for having a claim that doesn't fit.
4. muh refuses to claim, and we lynch him.
After one of these four things happens, I will say why I find Zang very suspicious. I also find muh very suspicious for not simply claiming and letting the town decide whether his claim is believable.

[muh316]

I'm not claiming because it's too early and most votes are off of me right now.

[Shadow Dancer]

look at the reasons why I said I thought she was town, they are related to the reasons for me being off the wagon.

eh... What? She did not catch up so she had to be town?

[Shadow Dancer]

Where's Ekim, btw?

[VasudeVa]

1. Can you honestly read his posts and say his playstyle doesn't indicate VI?
Indications of VI play:
a. Simplistic mindset.
b. Inherent scumminess in posts
c. Lack of content
d. Bad punctuation/spelling.

Yes, he is probably a detriment to Town, but again VIscum are very easy to catch, and how he's reacting does not seem like VIscum to me.

Not to mention there is a total lack of a scum mindset in his posts. There is absolutely no buddying, no malice, no attempt at manipulation in his play. So, I read him as VItown. A VI, but still Town. He is not the lynch for the day.

Lobbying for an extension might be the way to go, but the Mod was vehement against the extension, and so he deadline hammered. Nothing scummy about that.

You consistently pushing for this weak case is scummy. You fail to even attempt to understand his intentions and pushing a case against a lynchbait is a very reliable scumtell.

2. He is not in any danger of a hammer, I assure you. Quick hammers are for Rome. Hammerers will be punished severely. Keeping your top suspect at L-1 is one of the best ways to get him to find his alignment, and your lack of interest in getting info on your 'top suspect' is scummy.

3. Fair enough. I still don't like it though, I do it as scum. I am aware that this is weak anecdotal evidence, but it's worth a mention.

4. Right. That doesn't absolve you from your own attempt at NK speculation when you called me out on it.

---

Stop voting Muh. He's probTown. Vote for Scum Brosius please~

[VasudeVa]

SD is probTown btw.

[Scott Brosius]

SD is probTown btw.

Explain...

SD- eKim is dead. Sadly this could probably be a town slip.

[VasudeVa]

I don't see scum forgetting who died last night and posting it in thread. It's too careless.

[Shadow Dancer]

*Facepalm* Of course he's dead... I just realized he had not posted for a while. However: SB, why do you consider "town slips" bad? It is always good if you have solid evedence for some one else being town.

@VV: I still think your points 2...4 are rather stretched and can be seen one way or the other, i.e. null tells, even in combination.

What do you think about Zang and Karma, btw. (and any other player than muh and/or Scott).

I agree on your opinion about muh. However, I honestly don't think that openly and repeatedly calling him VI will do any good.

about setup speculation: I do not think it ever really helps, at least not as early as D2 with 0 scum dead...

Also

unvote. vote Karma

. I wanna hear something from him. Now. I think he deserves some focus of his own.

[VasudeVa]

The meat of my case is #1. Do you disagree with my case on Scum Brosius?(pushing for lynchbait.). Why?