Mini 1266 - My iTunes Mafia - GAME OVER

[DeasVail]

Could we just get IS replaced if he's not going to post anything?

[don_johnson]

DJ, what happens to your reads if I flip town?

i reread with your flip in mind. not sure i can say anything concrete atm, but it certainly would change a few things. painted could still be independently scummy but that read certainly weakens. J probably looks scummier. other than that it would be tough without actually doing any research. if you

are

town, thanks for the IS vote and this recent deluge of posting.

p-edit: deas, i've seen this kind of shit before. mod is under no ruling to replace a player like this. if IS doesn't replace and he doesn't contribute, then we lynch him. if he pops in with some scummy bullshit or more and more "i'll get to it" posts, we lynch him. we have to be united in that stance or he has no incentive to show up. its a policy lynch, but trust me, its a good policy. this is ridiculous.

[Painted Face of Death]

Sken, as long as you're voting by request, would you mind voting for DJ? DJ is at the top of your scum list, so I find it odd that you're voting for someone who DJ tells you to vote for, rather than voting for DJ.

[DeasVail]

Why not just kill IS at night if you want him gone?

[Painted Face of Death]

I see what you did there.

[Skenvoy]

This went fast. Already out of the RVS, that's not a bad thing at all. No reason to keep a joke vote active :

UNVOTE: don_johnson

I don't agree at all that DV's reasoning was well thought out. I mean, theoretically it could have been true that she really really wanted to be out of this game, then saw that she got a scum role, got excited, and decided to stay in, sure. It seems unlikely to me. I don't see any reason why this would be true. While it's theoretically possible, there's no evidence that it's the case. Proposing the possibility was no big deal.

I quite agree with this. It's a little bit too easy to just say that she changed her mind because she got a scum role. It may be possible, but frankly I doubt it.

DV's rvs vote seemed serious. No doubt about this. While I find it interesting to end the rvs stage as soon as possible, the reasons of DV's vote were odd. Trying to go for an easy lynch, or just wanting to trigger a discussion and get this game started ? Or maybe it is some smart distancing? It seems like you both have a history, and I don't like meta-gaming interfering.

Okay, his first post apart from confirmation and RVS. I don't like the fact that he unvotes from RVS without voting again - unlike Guttersnipe, the fact that he participated in RVS shows that he doesn't mind voting, so why doesn't he vote, say, Deas in this post, if he thinks his posts were odd? Personally, I find DV's first vote semi-serious, he wasn't looking to get me lynched because of it, but it had more reasoning than your average RVS vote. This post is pure fencesitting - he's saying he pretty much agrees with Painted, yet he won't vote Deasveil, or even offer a proper opinion of his own.

I did not understand why painted couldn't consider the theory, its weak and completely depends on what role she prefers playing and even then it might not even be relevant it might just be she could play for whatever reason, but the reasoning behind its pretty good I mean she could have replaced out if she wanted, so shes seen her role and decided to stay in, ok, thats cool, but there is a slight chance the role helped to make her decision. it completely looked like scum jumping to buddys aid, there was no reason to come out guns blazing against that reasoning.

While this is possible, you forget to point out in your theory that she could have received another active role, on town's side, and wanting to stay in because of it? It seems you are only focusing on her possible scum role.

Skenvoy doesn't like being power roles by the way. At least that's what she's told me. I also know that she has wanted to be in a game as scum, since she has been town a lot recently. I don't why you can't accept that I had a fair reason to slightly suspect someone during RVS.

That's a little bit more solid and fits the theory. I don't know Skenvoy, but I have a bad feeling about this. Now you could be trying to mislead us too. That's why I hate meta-gaming issues.

You guys are arguing over whether Sken and Painted are buddies and focusing on Painted, meanwhile Sken is not getting the attention she deserves.

I disagree. The votes are not telling it but the main subject here is Sken.

PFOD, STOP FREAKING DEFENDING ME. I CAN DO IT MYSELF.At the moment, I have a town read on Deasveil, cause he's playing completely differently to the way he's played a scum. Slandaar's sticking out a lot, and I think scum would play more cautiously at this stage of the game.

The change of style could be done on purpose. Or did you play a lot of games together? Meta-gaming again ... :/

On the other, there are plenty of people, like me, who could be slightly lurking either because of real life issues

or something else entirely

. Thus, to attempt to be somewhat productive in this discussion, I will try to give an objective view on their behavior:

Like what for example? Being scum?

VOTE: Metabot

I'd like to hear more from you. And since you are not V/LA I think you might have time to answer.

This post is awful. He's constantly dismissing both DV's and my reads on each other, because they're 'meta', without offering an opinion of his own. All his points are basically "I don't agree with this," "I hate meta," etc, etc, without taking a clear stance at all. Finally, instead of having to get down from his fence, he votes for a lurker for...uh, being a lurker and some weird wording issue. Fennin, why do you constantly refuse to take a stance on Deasveil, myself, and anyone else who's actually posted enough to give you a read?

Your reasoning against Metabot is ick ick ick to me. You are voting him for a word contortion you created by putting words into his mouth in an almost joking matter. You go the entire post saying stuff about how Sken is the person of interest, addresse a few odd posts but don't do much of anything with them. You also say that you would like to hear more from Metabot.....where are the questions to help that? It seems counter-productive to say you want more from him but just leave it at that. What exactly do you wanna hear from him? I don't like that little stick it to him you did based on "Since you are not on V/LA you should answer me."

I'm putting on vote down on Metabot to attract attention. I found the bolded part of my previous Metabot's quote suspicious, nothing more. Well at least Metabot understood that :

Fair enough. Voteprods will get my attention.

UNVOTE: Metabot

I've got null on Fennin at the moment, but Fennin, why was Skenvoy the main subject?

Why do you believe Sken is the main subject beyond meta reasons since you seem to not like using meta

Answering both questions at the same time : Right after the RVS there was a debate about Skenvoy outing for this game but then staying, followed by a theory that she could be scum because she had said that she'd like to be scum in a future game due to always being town and that this may have motivated her to stay. She commented on that and I just answered this quote :

You guys are arguing over whether Sken and Painted are buddies and focusing on Painted,

meanwhile Sken is not getting the attention she deserves.

hm. don't like this. why would focus on outing a town role? its called "scumhunting". not "townhunting". but whatevz.

You got it wrong. Read the first pages again, about the theory that Sken could be scum. I simply stated that it wasn't a solid theory because she could also have been motivated to stay in the game due to another role than scum. Nothing more to add to this.

Still not taking any stances. Oh, wow, my pressure to post vote worked, so I'll take it off, but I still won't use my vote for anything useful. Yeah, I'll answer questions, but I won't ask any of my own, nor will I offer opinions on things that matter independently. The two things that jump out to me in this post: a) the unvote without voting again, and b) the "Nothing more to add to this", when in fact there's PLENTY more to add to this.

Fennin might be scum, hmmm.

And you are posting this without any reasoning behind it?

meh. i was looking for clarification. fennin's post was a) completely irrelevant, and b) not very clear imo. irrelevant because the argument is not and never has been about deas' original vote or his reasoning. we(except you) all agreed the reasoning was weak, but logical and not scummy. why fennin addressed this at all is beyond me. but its not something worth arguing over. i was looking for clarification. its done.

If it was completely irrelevant, why asking for clarifications? and the way you asked for clarifications seems scummy. Trying to make me appear town hunting when that's never been the case.

VOTE: don_johnson

Yeah, sure, Fennin, don't clarify that vote anymore. And vote for the person attacking you? That's fine. It's okay, your posts are completely town motivated. I see that now. /sarcasm

[DeasVail]

I see what you did there.

I wouldn't have bothered posting it if that was all there was to it.

[Skenvoy]

To clarify, I'd be voting Fennin right now if not for IS.

HoS: Fennin

[don_johnson]

now you're talkin'. you may be town after all.

Sken, as long as you're voting by request, would you mind voting for DJ? DJ is at the top of your scum list, so I find it odd that you're voting for someone who DJ tells you to vote for, rather than voting for DJ.

you failed to respond to my last post. i have blown all of your "logic" out of the water every time you have put hands to keyboard. noone with any sense is going to be voting for me today, and just about everyone can see that but you(and fennin. and maybe IS?) wierd how the players in those parentheses are among the lynch pool, and the other guy in the lynch pool is rereading the thread and now pointing the finger at those same guys. shocking. truly.

[don_johnson]

hey slan: what do you say to taking ole skenvoy here out of the lynch pool? we've got to start narrowing down here anyway, and she's putting up one helluva fight which is what i'd expect from a townie. painted, on the other hand, seems to have stopped trying.

[DeasVail]

From my experience, the townies tend to stop trying and scum keep fighting

[DeasVail]

DJ, what is so nonsensical about voting for you?

[don_johnson]

if you think its not "nonsensical", then feel free to vote me. i'm not going to rewrite the thread. i've been battling with pfod for way too long. if he can't see the error in his vote then he is either scum or VI. what else has pfod done?

[DeasVail]

Hmm, I didn't really suspect him before, but I'm really feeling that DJ is scum.

Unvote: (Whoever I'm voting for now)
Vote: don_johnson

[DeltaWave]

or, if you could present the overwhelming case against Painted that would be good too Delta...

The sheer number of alarm bells Painted has raised, from the very start of the game up until now, is staggering. It's been discussed at length in this thread; in fact, the first few pages seem devoted solely to this topic. I don't know if a rehash of individual points will do anyone any good. But I am proceeding cautiously because in my experience, people may seem incredibly scummy even though they are not so. I remember in my first game on here (Newbie 1149, which you were in Slandaar) I tunneled excessively. I have a meta on other sites for playing like I'm on crack, so I've added another layer of contemplation to my analysis. I call it the Zen of Mafia.

@Don_Johnson - Do you think Painted is scum?
@Painted - What's your opinion (at this moment) of Sken?
@Sken - What's your opinion (at this moment) of Painted?

[don_johnson]

i think he may be, yes. his sheer post content and ferocity of his arguments points more to VI imo, but his unwillingness to admit when he's not understanding something and his misuse of terminology(chainsaw defense and misrep) points to scum. i can't be sure, but i would have no second thoughts about lynching from the pool of players i have mentioned a couple times now:

sken, pfod, IS, and fennin.

though, like i said, sken is working hard to change my opinion. the other 3 seem to content to sit and watch. that said, what do you think of IS and how long are you willing to let them act this way?

[DeltaWave]

@DJ - We have about seven days left until the deadline, so I was going to give IS another day to get caught up. If IS just not going to post, we should get a replacement.

[don_johnson]

there is a difference between inactivity, lurking, and scummy. at this point IS is scummy. if his next post is "still reading," or "post soon", then we need to lynch him. if his post is "hey guys, don't have time, replace out." then we replace him. if he posts something townie, then we give him another day. thats how it works. maybe its because i have more experience on the site than most of you, but its disturbing how many of you are oblivious to the consequences of condoning this behavior. force replacing is not something that can be done. there is a post requirement of however many hours in between posts. if a player meets those requirements, they cannot be replaced. but whatevz.

[DeltaWave]

there is a difference between inactivity, lurking, and scummy. at this point IS is scummy. if his next post is "still reading," or "post soon", then we need to lynch him. if his post is "hey guys, don't have time, replace out." then we replace him. if he posts something townie, then we give him another day. thats how it works. maybe its because i have more experience on the site than most of you, but its disturbing how many of you are oblivious to the consequences of condoning this behavior. force replacing is not something that can be done. there is a post requirement of however many hours in between posts. if a player meets those requirements, they cannot be replaced. but whatevz.

We're on the same page with this, I think. My personal deadline for IS to post is one day; but whether that post is scummy or town determines my next action.

[Noramp]

I'm thinking IS could be a very good lynch candidate right now
UNVOTE:
VOTE: IS

[Internet Stranger]

I have this sneaky feeling that Don is being very opportunistic with a temporary delay. He is brandishing White Knight credentials and being all aggressive in an effort to simply look good. Hey Don, are you applying for the role of town savior, the defender of justice and leader of us plebeians? You do understand that those are generally scum traits?

I may not have gone through every post thoroughly yet, especially the earlier pages, but what I do see in the last few pages is Don trying to act like the ringmaster of this little circus. Cracking the whip and trying to steer lynches. Rallying against lurkers and anyone that disagrees with you. You know who else does that? Scum. Scum do that. Its not the first time I seen scum doing the whole hiding in plain sight ordeal. Its the very definition of a White Knight Don and its not going to work.

As of right now, I dont have enough voting patterns or evidence or enough examples of your interactions to convince myself that you are simply being opportunistic scum trying to make yourself look good at my expense or at the expense or unfortunate lurkers, but I will keep an eye on you. You will definitely be my first ISO and everyone else voting for me right now because of this sillyness will also get looked at. If Don isnt the scum and is just out to fluff his ego and get a bunch of attention, then one of the bandwagon monkeys will certainly be instead because as much of a crime you pretend temporary lurking might be, its actually simply an easy lynch for scum to make. Its defensible later and there wont be a challenger to verify your position.

So yes, im here and im going to take advantage of this little discourse now to find me at least one scum.

[don_johnson]

I have this sneaky feeling that Don is being very opportunistic with a temporary delay. He is brandishing White Knight credentials and being all aggressive in an effort to simply look good. Hey Don, are you applying for the role of town savior, the defender of justice and leader of us plebeians? You do understand that those are generally scum traits?

lol. so your plan was to lurk fopr ten pages and then launch accusations at the first person to call you on it? seriously IS. if you can't objectively read this thread and look for scum, then you are scum.

I may not have gone through every post thoroughly yet, especially the earlier pages, but what I do see in the last few pages is Don trying to act like the ringmaster of this little circus.

scum hate it when town tries to organize.

Cracking the whip and trying to steer lynches. Rallying against lurkers and anyone that disagrees with you. You know who else does that? Scum. Scum do that. Its not the first time I seen scum doing the whole hiding in plain sight ordeal. Its the very definition of a White Knight Don and its not going to work.

no. whats "not going to work" is you ignoring an entire thread of content. i've been scumhunting since the start. posting my thoughts. asking and answering questions.

As of right now, I dont have enough voting patterns or evidence or enough examples of your interactions to convince myself that you are simply being opportunistic scum trying to make yourself look good at my expense or at the expense or unfortunate lurkers, but I will keep an eye on you. You will definitely be my first ISO and everyone else voting for me right now because of this sillyness will also get looked at.

in other words. you are scum. its not "silly" to vote a guy who has contributed nothing for ten pages. If Don isnt the scum and is just out to fluff his ego and get a bunch of attention, then one of the bandwagon monkeys will certainly be instead because as much of a crime you pretend temporary lurking might be, its actually simply an easy lynch for scum to make. Its defensible later and there wont be a challenger to verify your position.

no. heres how it works: you post something townie, people think you are town. you post something scummy, people think you are scum. you post nothing, and people can't read you or determine your alignment. you get votes, and unless you start posting townie to convince people you are not scum, then you get lynched. this post of yours contains zero content. it shows that you have not been reading, or that if you have, you are wary about commenting.

So yes, im here and im going to take advantage of this little discourse now to find me at least one scum.

no. read the thread, comment on relevant happenings or be lynched. unfortunately, for me this last post of yours is the last straw. you come up with something quick or you will be lynched.

again: lurking for ten pages and then saying "those who are calling me out must be scum" is an unacceptable and laughable strategy.

to all: do not be fooled. IS is most likely scum at this point and unless he agrees to(and follows through with) read this game and comment objectively on everything that has happened, he should be lynched. this last post is entirely reactionary.

[Slandaar]

sken still seems like scum to me

hmmmm

[don_johnson]

quote tag fail:

in other words. you are scum. its not "silly" to vote a guy who has contributed nothing for ten pages.

If Don isnt the scum and is just out to fluff his ego and get a bunch of attention, then one of the bandwagon monkeys will certainly be instead because as much of a crime you pretend temporary lurking might be,

its actually simply an easy lynch for scum to make

. Its defensible later and there wont be a challenger to verify your position.

also, in regards to what i italicized, what makes an easy lynch for scum is a lazy townie. so if you are a townie. guess what? don't be lazy. you know whats lazy? not commenting on an entire thread and arguing with the guy who called you out with a sound and reasonable expectation.

p-edit: slan, could be, but pfod has faded to black and still seems to be pushing his terribad case on me. fennin is ignoring everything relevant, and IS needs to fix what he's done. all of those things are starting to look way scummier than skenvoys behavior. still a viable lynch, but certainly not the best atm.

[Slandaar]

@sken: can you give me a list if reads please?