Mini 2251: Triplicate! GAME OVER!

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I feel like there has to be TMI in here somewhere

I felt it mostly in how RR approached voting today, but Amy expressing borderline the same thing really doesn't help narrow that down

[Radical Rat]

I'm not voting House.

We literally have a mechanical guilty here, and I cannot comprehend how ignoring that is even on the table. I understand doubting me and voting me as a result, because I am lie about this as Town, but just.... Voting someone else entirely while there's a hard guilty that exists?

You can keep saying this until hell freezes over, it’s still doesn’t change the fact that it’s straight up bs.

I know RR is lying scum, so it would be gamethrowing for me to vote anywhere else.

I find this to be mildly amusing/ironic

[Amy Dunne]

why does scum!house choose a 1v1 with Titus exactly

If I'm townreading you, it's picked anyway essentially unless RR and Amy is the team. He didn't pick this 1 v 1 at all. I FoSed him well before because he refused to staye a read on me.

He's also not voting Amy or RR to avoid confirming his partner but I feel it's Amy.

Mastina already made an extensive case why this makes absolutely no sense.

[Amy Dunne]

I know RR is lying scum, so it would be gamethrowing for me to vote anywhere else.

I'm not voting House.

We literally have a mechanical guilty here, and I cannot comprehend how ignoring that is even on the table. I understand doubting me and voting me as a result, because I am lie about this as Town, but just.... Voting someone else entirely while there's a hard guilty that exists?

This is the sole reason why House is not on a pike.

Because I know he’s fucking lying about me, so why would I want to vote anywhere else? I wouldn’t vote you, Alyssa or Mastina over the only person I 100% know has to be scum.

His buddy could be anyone of out of you, Alyssa, House and - she gets a scummie if she’s been playing all of us, Mastina - and if we vote wrong, scum!RR and whomever is his buddy still wins.

However, I’m very suspicious that you want to flip it to House, which makes me think it actually could be RR/you.

[Amy Dunne]

I'm not voting House.

We literally have a mechanical guilty here, and I cannot comprehend how ignoring that is even on the table. I understand doubting me and voting me as a result, because I am lie about this as Town, but just.... Voting someone else entirely while there's a hard guilty that exists?

You can keep saying this until hell freezes over, it’s still doesn’t change the fact that it’s straight up bs.

I know RR is lying scum, so it would be gamethrowing for me to vote anywhere else.

I find this to be mildly amusing/ironic

Yeah, it’s totally amusing to me that you’d go this far to try to push a miselim on me. Absolutely hilarious.

[Radical Rat]

The funny part is that immediately after asserting my 1v1 on you is bullshit, you then effectively say the same thing.

[Amy Dunne]

The funny part is that immediately after asserting my 1v1 on you is bullshit, you then effectively say the same thing.

Because I know you’re scum and I think limming anyone but you puts us in possible danger of losing.

[mastina]

Then we will lose and that won’t be on my head.

If you vote House, I would join and hope the town in Amy/RR joins. I feel much better on voting House.

Apparently my message wasn't clear.

Are you familiar with the concept of hammer-testing?

Where, in a lylo scenario, you risk the game by placing a vote at a time you know another player is around, wait for them to post, then immediately unvote? If they hammer, the game ends in a scum win, but if they don't hammer, you conftown them without risking the game.

That's what I meant.

No, I would not vote Amy here.

In Amy-RR right now I'm always voting RR unless there's a damn good argument to be had for Amy being scum when I really don't think she actually is.

But I'd almost be willing to hammer-test by voting Amy (who has 2 votes) to conftown Alyssa. Almost--because I can't risk it due to House.

Where was this?
I didn't think she said anything regarding her role until the night had ended, and I didn't see it from skimming her ISO

Well night ended at 2877, which means all of these were before the night ended: [quote="In post 2808, Titus"I also don't see scum shooting you n1. This means we have a braindead and/or bulletproof protective.[/quote]

If I live, we flip Amy tomorrow.

If I live, the game is over for the scumteam.

.

In b4 Dunn flips town and I get another game under my belt to shove in people's faces over my Titus reads.

You mean lemon demon where you townread me out of the gate? You get lucky sometimes but you're wrong here.

I always treat you as town up until the moment I call you scum. Nothing strange there.

Nice try.

Just be prepared for the egg.

mastina's early reads suggest that as a possibility too, if we're assuming

(which I'm not 100% sure of)

, that mastina's bp was hit.

Scum shoot RR (worst case, protective is a dumbbutt or blocked) or scum block RR and shoot T3
If scum do not kill or block RR and there's a protective it's mech.

I don't think mastina's bulletproof is why no kill on n1

Of course I was a too late dingbat night 2.

No further comment here.

The last ones I am quoting, the first chronologically, are plenty enough on their own but are supported by the ones later on.

Suffice to say: Titus has been breadcrumbing killstopper since

the beginning of

Day Three

.

The scum, in spite of Titus's breadcrumbs, did not shoot her N3, they shot Lady Chloe for ??? reasons.

The scum, in spite of Titus's continued breadcrumbs, did not shoot her N3, they shot T3 in spite of him not being mechanically conftown given RR's survival.

Thus, Titus surviving this long can be only one of two things imo:
Either the scum are completely and utterly incompetent at reading the thread (while this is

possible

from Amy Dunne, her only possible scumbuddies very much

should

see it--House isn't incompetent so the only way he misses it is with tunnelvisioning on accusing Titus; RCE and Alyssa are both damn good at hunting for breadcrumbs so there's no way they miss it)...

...Or the scum didn't miss it, but deliberately chose to leave Titus alone.

Tell me, RR: who, knowing Titus is breadcrumbing killstopper, has the most incentive to keep her alive?

'Cause you're bullshitting if you don't answer yourself. Because you very much do have the most incentive to keep her alive.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

RCE and Alyssa are both damn good at hunting for breadcrumbs so there's no way they miss it)...

what

this is the first I've ever heard of me being good at hunting for crumbs

[Radical Rat]

Tell me, RR: who, knowing Titus is breadcrumbing killstopper, has the most incentive to keep her alive?

Well, for one, I don't think most of those actually indicate killstopper, though the couple regarding you not being the reason for the N1 no kill definitely are, I'll acknowledge that much.

But beyond that, T3 is just a better kill than either me or Titus in general. Can't say much for the Chloe kill, but T3 was the only kill that actually made sense for scum to make last night, regardless of my alignment. They can't kill me if I'm scum, because... Well, I'm one of them. They can't kill me if I'm Town, because that dooms Amy. Titus kill isn't the worst move, but flipping her makes it slightly easier to get meaningful information out of my result, since taken in isolation my Dunnstral analysis COULD implicate her as well as Amy, it only doesn't now because of prior results establishing Town!Amy as impossible. So T3 dying generates the least information, and he was never viable as a mislim, whereas Titus could possibly have been, and indeed she is being shaded as my potential partner.

There are also... Other reasons why your theory about me not killing for towncred don't work, but I can't really go into those unless Titus decides to fullclaim.

[Radical Rat]

To answer your question more directly, I don't know who benefits the most specifically, but I think it more just comes down to having better options to kill rather than looking for a particular reason to spare Titus.

[mastina]

Tell me, RR: who, knowing Titus is breadcrumbing killstopper, has the most incentive to keep her alive?

Well, for one, I don't think most of those actually indicate killstopper, though the couple regarding you not being the reason for the N1 no kill definitely are, I'll acknowledge that much.

But beyond that, T3 is just a better kill than either me or Titus in general. Can't say much for the Chloe kill, but T3 was the only kill that actually made sense for scum to make last night, regardless of my alignment. They can't kill me if I'm scum, because... Well, I'm one of them. They can't kill me if I'm Town, because that dooms Amy. Titus kill isn't the worst move, but flipping her makes it slightly easier to get meaningful information out of my result, since taken in isolation my Dunnstral analysis COULD implicate her as well as Amy, it only doesn't now because of prior results establishing Town!Amy as impossible. So T3 dying generates the least information, and he was never viable as a mislim, whereas Titus could possibly have been, and indeed she is being shaded as my potential partner.

There are also... Other reasons why your theory about me not killing for towncred don't work, but I can't really go into those unless Titus decides to fullclaim.

To answer your question more directly, I don't know who benefits the most specifically, but I think it more just comes down to having better options to kill rather than looking for a particular reason to spare Titus.

Yeah this reeks of so much bullshit that it's taking all of my willpower to just not instavote it.

I could explain right now but suffice to say: this is an absolute bullshit of an attempt to write off what is basically a hard-condemnation as something other than what it is. We're talking almost Pooky-level of bullshitting here.

[Titus]

Mastina, I have the cards you don't. I've tried to tell you obliquely why this is structured the way it is but I can't tell scum. I have no problems with RR's response given what we both knew of the game mechanic.

[mastina]

Mastina, I have the cards you don't.

Do you?

'Cause I'm pretty sure you can't get an elimination without MY vote. (Well unless two town vote town. Then there can be an elimination without my vote, but at that stage the town lost, so...)

And as far as I'm concerned, your inability to get an elimination without MY vote means it's not YOU with the cards--it's ME.

I'll admit that I have access to the least amount of information since Alyssa and House among others have a neighborhood with multiple players (and they're keeping something from me for some reason), and you had the scum PT with RR (and you're keeping things from me for some reason). So I admit that I don't have access to the information in spite of the fact that scum definitely have access to the neighborhood and if RR were scum the scum would have access to the scum PT info. So keeping information from me when I am the deciding vote is frankly stupid and idiotic. I admit that I don't have access to the information you have access to.

But what I DO have is a vote necessary for the town to win and let me tell you:

RR looks 98% scum to me right now and everything they say only strengthens that scumread rather than weakening it.

And you're not going to get me to not vote them off of "trust me".

I don't have trust in you, Titus--even IF you are town (which you very well may not be!), you can be mistaken about RR being town. So frankly, no, I don't trust you. And so I am going to exercise MY power and play MY card.

VOTE: Radical Rat.

Shouldn't end the game since it's impossible for scum to vote out town with my vote (if RR is town, Amy is scum and Amy was already voting; I'm the second vote; it takes 4 to eliminate so the only way for RR to die is for another town player to vote RR), but shows my stance and my threat.

[mastina]

And as far as I'm concerned, your inability to get an elimination without MY vote means it's not YOU with the cards--it's ME.

You may point out, Titus, that you if you are town are necessary to have your vote for an elimination to go through.

But I am bulletproof so I can't die at night.

Meaning that scum can kill literally any of {House, Alyssa, Titus} tonight if we don't get an elimination.

And then in 5p lylo (instead of our 6p mylo), it only takes one wrong vote for scum to win. Meaning that if you want my vote, you need to convince me. In contrast, I don't need your vote. You, tomorrow, will either be dead (and thus, have no vote to use the weight of), proven wrong if I vote RR and there's no scum hammer (if Amy and I vote RR in 5p and then there's no hammer, your only options are to argue I am scum with Amy which is laughable at best or admit that RR is scum), or proven right if I vote RR and scum win because of your stubbornness.

So I repeat.

You're not the one holding the cards. You hold INFORMATION. You don't hold the CARDS.

I do. Because scum cannot kill me, meaning I am guaranteed to be around both today AND tomorrow.

And I mean it--right now, in 5p lylo? I would vote RR.

Frankly the situation with you and RR is reeking of bullshit, so I won't trust you, and I won't be bullied by your frankly empty threat of holding the cards, since I am confident in my stance that my vote + bulletproof status trumps anything you have access to in terms of weight in the game's outcome.

[mastina]

Put another way:
People have kept information from the game thread, "to keep the information from getting into the hands of the scum". As part of "precautions" taken.

Aside from how the scum likely already have access to said information, that's a ridiculously stupid idiotic moronic justification for keeping information private rather than public, because it fails to account for a very critical crucial factor:

The town needs my vote in order to win. It's literally impossible for the town to win without my help.

And as I am the least-informed player here, withholding the information from me isn't giving the town an advantage by hiding the information from scum--
Withholding the information from me is

preventing the town's chance at winning the game from

having the information needed to make an educated decision

.
I cannot die here. The scum can't kill me due to my status as bulletproof. And while town can vote out town without my help (the town can

lose

the game without my assistance), town cannot vote out scum without my help (the town cannot

win

without my assistance).

Withholding information from the player who makes the critical vote isn't helping the town--it's hurting the town. The "precautions" aren't precautions; they're basically gamethrowing by not factoring in the most important factor of all; that I cannot die, have a vote, and am needed for an elimination. As long as all three of those remain true, I'm the most important slot in the game. So holding information from me is decreasing the town's odds at winning, not increasing them.

[mastina]

Speaking of withheld information: we really

should

massclaim here.

RR has fullclaimed; I have claimed. But unless I'm mistaken, that's only 2/6 slots claimed.

In mylo.

Why haven't we had at least 3 other claims here? Titus holding back from claiming, she's partially explained at least, but the other three of you (House, Amy, Alyssa) have no such excuse for it.

[mastina]

(Okay so House at least said "I'm not claiming", in a refusal to claim. But Amy and Alyssa should have claimed here at least and I have a guess for House's role anyway.)

[Titus]

I have a guess for House's role anyway.

Please elaborate since's he's unwilling to claim.

[Alyssa The Lamb]

I am VT

[Radical Rat]

mastina, what if Titus HAD died? Who would you suspect in that case?

[Titus]

Meaning that scum can kill literally any of {House, Alyssa, Titus} tonight if we don't get an elimination.

This is possibly incorrect. It's the only reason I'm considering voting RR.

I'm going to claim now as I think you're making a mistake based on the assumption that you're wrong. I am a bulletproof bodyguard as well. That's the failsafe.

A50 protected RCE night 1, so I'm inclined to view Alyssa as town. That creates the problem of three people that might have been shot night 1.

It does create a strength issue with RR's claim but I still believe him. I don't think scum shoots T3 there when I am in the game.

We are eliminating today, even if I disagree for the reasons above.

[Radical Rat]

Meaning that scum can kill literally any of {House, Alyssa, Titus} tonight if we don't get an elimination.

This is possibly incorrect. It's the only reason I'm considering voting RR.

I'm going to claim now as I think you're making a mistake based on the assumption that you're wrong. I am a bulletproof bodyguard as well. That's the failsafe.

A50 protected RCE night 1, so I'm inclined to view Alyssa as town. That creates the problem of three people that might have been shot night 1.

It does create a strength issue with RR's claim but I still believe him. I don't think scum shoots T3 there when I am in the game.

We are eliminating today, even if I disagree for the reasons above.

@mastina

The other reasons I was alluding to?
Titus expressed intent to protect me last night. If I'm scum, I no kill there and play it as if scum had attacked me. We miss out on the kill, yes, but I get mostly confirmed and can make up whatever results I need and interpret them in plausibly deniable ways.

[Radical Rat]

In any case, with Titus actually claiming publicly, and my guaranteed knowledge of her as Town...

I am okay being eliminated if that's what needs to happen.
Scum can't kill Titus or mastina because bulletproof.
Scum can't kill Any because Amy is scum and my flip proves that
Alyssa/House could go either way still, but if Titus protects the Town there... We win.

I do still think we should eliminate the mechanical guilty here instead of relying on a coin toss, but eliminating me isn't actually an auto loss, so if that's what it takes to get people to believe me, so be it.

[Titus]

@RR, I should have thought it through but that's not 100%.

Amy gets eliminated based on your interpretation.
Then you get flipped.

It turns into me versus Amy versus House, which has evolved into me v House.