[Mini 1835] - Everything Is A Lie Mafia 4 (Abandoned)

[Leather and Lace]

Patches is not the only time I ran into 3P that tried to pass themselves off as pro-town.

In another game when I first joined, eyestott was 3P acting the same way The Counsel. Offering information and pandering to town.

[Leather and Lace]

Also, I don't think The Counsel can be lynched, if their forced self-vote is any indication.

It would take another vote on them and a VC to confirm. If that's the case, the dayvig may be our only option for killing them.

[Ircher]

@Farside
I'm scum because ______?

[Ircher]

Also, I don't think The Counsel can be lynched, if their forced self-vote is any indication.

It would take another vote on them and a VC to confirm. If that's the case, the dayvig may be our only option for killing them.

Would you stop suggesting that already? Again, we're not wasting shots on your stupid assumption due to past poor interactions with unknown slots.

[House]

Also, I don't think The Counsel can be lynched, if their forced self-vote is any indication.

It would take another vote on them and a VC to confirm. If that's the case, the dayvig may be our only option for killing them.

Would you stop suggesting that already? Again, we're not wasting shots on your stupid assumption due to past poor interactions with unknown slots.

Patches is not the only time I ran into 3P that tried to pass themselves off as pro-town.

In another game when I first joined, eyestott was 3P acting the same way The Counsel. Offering information and pandering to town.

[Leather and Lace]

Also, I don't think The Counsel can be lynched, if their forced self-vote is any indication.

It would take another vote on them and a VC to confirm. If that's the case, the dayvig may be our only option for killing them.

Would you stop suggesting that already? Again, we're not wasting shots on your stupid assumption due to past poor interactions with unknown slots.

Patches is not the only time I ran into 3P that tried to pass themselves off as pro-town.

In another game when I first joined, eyestott was 3P acting the same way The Counsel. Offering information and pandering to town.

Dammit, went to House to dig it up and saw that terrible post.

[farside22]

Ircher added to scum list for the following post.

I think it's better if I wait until at least tomorrow to go into it any further than that.

This 100%.

Also,
VOTE: Flame for being difficult.

Democracy is a part of this Counsel. Its not my choice to be so conservative. Make up your minds.

I told everything with absolute honesty. for confirming I have no control over the second vote

UNVOTE:
UNVOTE:

Will you pls vote Leather for wanting us to waste a dayvig shot?

Crappy reason for voting, saying to vote leather for wanting to waste a dayvig.
Being difficult is NAI.
Why ask for someone to vote a player your not voting.
Just looks like your stirring trouble.

[Leather and Lace]

http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=54&t=60196

My mistake, he was mafia.

Acted much like The Counsel though.

[Ircher]

Ok, let's look at what Leather has done all game:

Spoiler: Leather ISO Notes

1. 27 --> Confirmation --> Null

2. 37 --> RVS vote The Counsel for possessing 2 votes -->

Why is that important? Why is your vote based off the fact the Counsel possess multiple votes versus the fact that the Counsel is an unknown alternate account? You picked the smaller, less meaningful detail versus the bigger, more meaningful detail to have an issue with. Nonetheless, it's an RVS vote, but I don't get why that captured your attention more than the other fact.

--> Null

3. 41 --> Response to Counsel's vote on them -->

You seem to have hated Bloodborne, but why are you letting it affect the way you are playing this game? Also, what was the purpose/intent behind responding?

--> Null, but a bit paranoid.

4. 43 --> Votes IC -->

Now, we're looking at Outguess-the-Mod; again, what prohibits the IC from being a real IC? The only thing that bastard games guarantee is that there MIGHT be false information in the setup that cannot be reasonable anticipated (or possibly gamebreaking interactions such as alignment changes & direct mod influence). It does not guarantee anything. "Innocent until proven guilty"; there is no need to lynch/eliminate a mod-confirmed IC until there is sufficient evidence that keeping them alive would hurt the town or that the IC is really scum.

--> Null

5. 48 --> Questions the way BNLP voted SirCakez --> Null-Town

6. 51 --> More argument concerning such --> Null-Town

7. 96 --> Comments on Wguerts changing the spelling -->

Out of curiosity, how was it previously spelled and why did it need to be changed?

--> Null

8. 97 --> Asks Xyzzy about role --> Null

9. 122 --> Doesn't believe the IC -->

How does the fact that Xyzzy (presumably) did not tell the mod when to confirm his role have any bearing on Xyzzy's alignment? Your argument makes zero sense here and thats an extremely dumb reason to scumread an INNOCENT CHILD based on how their role works and the fact that this game is bastard.

--> Scum

10. 124 --> Doesn't trust Counsel -->

....Why are you allowing other games (ie: Bloodborne) affect the way you consider elements of this game considering 1) Varsoon and Wguerts are not the same people and 2) Ypur assumptions are 100% based on Mod WIFOM with very little meta evidence to even support a generalization of your argument?

--> Null, still super paranoid about the Counsel's slot

11. 126 --> Suggests dayvigging Xyzzy or the Counsel -->

Not surprised, but both targets imo are bad ideas. Xyzzy will get sorted in due time. The Counsel is not currentky a threat and should be given a chance to prove themselves.

--> Null

12. 150 --> Denies Xyzzy's argument that Leather is just soeculating -->

The problem is.... You are speculating..... And its not even healthy speculating; it's blind tunnel-vision based on speculated setup spec and Mod WIFOM.

--> Null

And pretty much, the rest of the ISO is a tunnel on Xyzzy and The Counsel.

Now, my question to Leather is -- What will this tunnel accomplish, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE WRONG?

[Ircher]

@Farside

Difficult represents either mafia or stubborness. Considering how little we've done so far (primarily cuz of Leather.....), it isn't a bad pressure vote.

Pressure voting Leather wouldn't be a bad idea either considering they are acting 85% Anti-Town right now.

[Leather and Lace]

Now, my question to Leather is -- What will this tunnel accomplish, ESPECIALLY IF YOU ARE WRONG?

That's ready to answer.

1) It will make everyone accountable for their own views, REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

2) It will remove two double-voters REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

3) It will pacify me, REGARDLESS OF THE ALIGNMENTS OF THE OWNER AND SECOND PRIVATE VOTER.

There's, three excellent reasons to kill The Counsel.

Now, I have a question for you!

[Leather and Lace]

Pressure voting Leather wouldn't be a bad idea either considering they are acting 85% Anti-Town right now.

Why should we feel pressured when any wagon we receive in response to this post is formed on the pretense of pressure?

This feels very much like scum busywork.

[Ircher]

Pressure voting Leather wouldn't be a bad idea either considering they are acting 85% Anti-Town right now.

Why should we feel pressured when any wagon we receive in response to this post is formed on the pretense of pressure?

This feels very much like scum busywork.

And you are saying what you've been doing hasn't been busywork? Your tunneling has kept this game in setup spec mode which is hardly an improvement over RVS. There's no meat to scumread or townread players on rn tbh.

1) Moot point. The Counsel has already stated that they will follow any voting restrictions, wont hammer, and any info they give has to be democratically determined. That holds them accountable as we can autolynch them if they go back on their word.

2) And what does that accomplish? Being a doublevoter as anti-town is super beneficial, yes, but there is good reason to believe that not both votes are in the hand of an anti-town player. A town doublevoter is still positive town utility even if very minor.

3) Horrible reason; the noose can keep you quiet.

[Leather and Lace]

1) Moot point. The Counsel has already stated that they will follow any voting restrictions, wont hammer, and any info they give has to be democratically determined. That holds them accountable as we can autolynch them if they go back on their word.

Not moot. They only control ONE hidden vote, which gives scum a double-teaming as long as they're alive.

Also, The Counsel's very existence counts against living majority for town.

[Leather and Lace]

2) And what does that accomplish? Being a doublevoter as anti-town is super beneficial, yes, but there is good reason to believe that not both votes are in the hand of an anti-town player. A town doublevoter is still positive town utility even if very minor.

You're arguing both sides!

If we place a voting restriction, they presumably can't double vote. If we don't, we have a 3P double-voter.

Period.

[Leather and Lace]

3) Horrible reason; the noose can keep you quiet.

Not if it's controlled by the dead!

[Leather and Lace]

1) Moot point. The Counsel has already stated that they will follow any voting restrictions, wont hammer, and any info they give has to be democratically determined. That holds them accountable as we can autolynch them if they go back on their word.

Not moot. They only control ONE hidden vote, which gives scum a double-voter as long as they're alive.

Also, The Counsel's very existence counts against living majority for town.

EBWOP

[Flames682]

Difficult represents either

mafia

or stubborness.

Uh, no? Both town and scum can be difficult. Like farside said, it's NAI.

Considering how little we've done so far

(primarily cuz of Leather.....)

, it isn't a bad pressure vote.

Your ISO illustrates that you haven't done too much either.

[Leather and Lace]

Considering how little we've done so far (primarily cuz of Leather.....)

Funny, the way I see it, I'm the only one that's done squat this far.

I don't you campaigning for the death of a non-townie. I don't see you petitioning for votes to get a private double-voter outed.

What HAVE you done aside from being an obstructionist?

[Leather and Lace]

SirCakes

Shos
Davsto

Leather and Lace

BulletNLynchproof

Rylai & Lina

Yume

farside22

Flames682

Vedith
KuroiXHF

Ircher

xyzzy

Everyone

: Give me a Yea on knowing the private voter or an amazing reason why we shouldn't.

Majority achieved. The Counsel, provide that name please.

[Leather and Lace]

My guess is BNL, btw.

[xyzzy]

L&L is focusing way too hard on speculating about details to the game that we can't possibly fully understand at this point, and at this point I feel like it's a deliberate effort to make everyone else not focus on scum hunting (which of relatively easy with the one week deadlines).

VOTE: Leather and Lace

side note: I can't help but read "BNL" as "Barenaked Ladies"

[Leather and Lace]

side note: I can't help but read "BNL" as "Barenaked Ladies"

Ladies look lovely in Leather and Lace.

Spoiler:

Yes, I know you mean the band.... If I had a million dollars for every time I that song... I'd be rich!

[Ircher]

VOTE: Leather

[Leather and Lace]

Interesting that it's only once you get support in voting us that you suddenly remember that you wanted to pressure us.

I think it's incredibly strange that you would ask the Counsel, confirmed non-town, to pressure vote us, when you weren't even doing so yourself. That seems very fake to me.