Starcraft Mafia -- Game Over!

[Shoshin]

I agree with Xtoxm that it’s highly unlikely that there are no investigatives in this setup.

Why are you assuming Key's the only investigative?

[AlmostNancy]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

[AlmostNancy]

Is that Nancy?

Yes.

[AlmostNancy]

I agree with Xtoxm that it’s highly unlikely that there are no investigatives in this setup.

Why are you assuming Key's the only investigative?

we have zero flipped/claimed investigatives outside of keyser. why would you even risk lynching there without establishing someone (dead or alive) challenging him for only investigative in the game?

[Shoshin]

Okay, Nancy. I'm glad you're around. Can you give me a summary of where you stand on the game? Who are you willing to lynch? Who are you unwilling to lynch?

[Shoshin]

Do I really have to claim investigative just to get Key lynched? C'mon, Nancy. Investigatives shouldn't need to claim just to get him lynched.

[AlmostNancy]

But if we ended up in a spot we thought was lylo and went for a massclaim, and it turns out no one dead or alive claims invest, would you agree keys is then very likely town?
If yes, why risk lynching the invest today?
Perf claims protective. We have a dead protective. Perf can never be cleared by setup spec. Keys potentially could, as well as providing a headache for scum if he is town.
Lynching an invest claim with no counters on D2 is a really high risk play we don't need to take.

p-ed: I'm frustrated at Keys lack of doing much as well, i'm not sure he's ever placed a vote since RVS? But that doesn't mean i'm willing to risk lynching him at this stage of the game.

@Shoshin, @anyone.

Tell me, how this isn’t town?

[Xtoxm]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Maybe but we'll never know because he had the chance taken away 6 hours before deadline. Perf also didn't know.

Mewtaph has voted Perf so it's safe to assume whatever info it is, does not give us a reason to exclude Perf from lynch. Mew insists saying more would be anti-town, so I don't want to think much more than that.

[Nauci]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Does NM have a history of not claiming?

I feel like I've seen him claim when at -1.

[Nauci]

I feel like I've seen him claim when at -1.

And was asked to claim

[skitter30]

@Shoshin: Because I'm scumreading Performer, and leaning town on Mew and Key. And I already explained why I was townreading Mew D1. His scumhunting looked genuine to me, and his reads and explanations were actually possible to follow. I have been having some trouble understanding the reasoning of a number of other players, in the instances where it was actually provided.

i mean a player making sense != a player being town

being able to form logical thoughts and being able to express them is not an inherently townie trait

==

If I knew someone was lying I would be trying to hang them with all my strength and passion.

Why does town-Mew leave it til now?

if my understanding of the situation is correct, it makes sense for town!him not to out it or to try to get them lynched
(again, i don't believe the claim he's insinuating and think it's more likely that he's making this up)

I'm pretty sure that he's saying that someone isn't revealing their entire role for reasons that aren't scum-lying and that he's protecting a tpr from full claiming by being weird about it

this basically

==

For instance, here's my information:
I know that Zerg exist as a faction and that their kill, by default, is not bullets.

@mod:

if a player had a killing role, but their kill flavor was *not* bullets, and a gunsmith investigated said player, what result would the gunsmith receive?

==

@Keys the issue I have with the way you're presenting Mewtaph is I kinda feel like you're reading malice into his actions rather than approaching from a place of curiosity/intrigue and trying to discern his intentions if that makes sense

I agree on principle with most of what you're saying but if your claim is true and you have nothing to hide why preempt the attack on Mewt?

Read my posts again.

I’ve already presented the town-Mew-keeps-his-mouth shut universe.

but he's under pressure to claim?

==

so town has zero investigatives?

i mean this is kinda a hasty conclusion based on like ... nothing givne that another ~9 players havne't claimed yet

it's kinda fallacious to say taht the one investigative claim we have is town and that if he isn't town has 0 investigatives

==

A large part of me feels like Nauci is just open wolfing here, the agenda she has been pushing today is so pro-scum. I can't tell if it's coming from a malicious place or reckless town trying to game solve.

i really don't feel ike she's openwolfing like at all?

this is such a strange pov about the gamestate that doesn't match what i'm thinking at all that i have trouble seeing it come from a town pov

pushing lots of different wagons to out info, further pushing mew after he said revealing his info would be anti town, and now pushing on key despite no other invest claims. i struggle to see town motivation for any of this.

i mean yes mechanically there might be reasons not to push these people but like play-wise they're all scummy

==

i kinda wnat to lynch all of {mew/key/kokichi}
kinda xtoxm too
my townread on mitillos is basically gone
my gut says performer may be town (or at least not groupscum) but i think he needs to be resolved somehow but i don't feel like he's the best lynch today because there's people i scumread more

[Nauci]

@Keyser can you link me games where you were an active TPR?

[Nauci]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

[Shoshin]

But if we ended up in a spot we thought was lylo and went for a massclaim, and it turns out no one dead or alive claims invest, would you agree keys is then very likely town?
If yes, why risk lynching the invest today?
Perf claims protective. We have a dead protective. Perf can never be cleared by setup spec. Keys potentially could, as well as providing a headache for scum if he is town.
Lynching an invest claim with no counters on D2 is a really high risk play we don't need to take.

p-ed: I'm frustrated at Keys lack of doing much as well, i'm not sure he's ever placed a vote since RVS? But that doesn't mean i'm willing to risk lynching him at this stage of the game.

@Shoshin, @anyone.

Tell me, how this isn’t town?

Xtom isn't scumhunting? He's just trying to outguess the mod ("this game has to have investigatives"). Why is this town?

[Nauci]

The idea of wanting to protect our potentially only investigative isn't inherently scummy, imo

I disagree with him but I can understand the perspective?

[Nauci]

Unless he's prodding at it to try and get an investigative to CC, which I thought seemed far-fetched

[AlmostNancy]

Okay, Nancy. I'm glad you're around. Can you give me a summary of where you stand on the game? Who are you willing to lynch? Who are you unwilling to lynch?

I’m not willing to lynch Xtoxm, Varsoon, the worst.

(I wrongly scumread Xtoxm initially and tw and Varsoon tried to stop his mislynch.)

I’m willing to lynch Performer, Mew today.

I haven’t decided which yet.

I agreed with Xtoxm. I don’t want to lynch Key today and didn’t Mitilos claim informed townie, along with me and Varsoon?

She claimed the no ninja thing, iirc?

So, it’s between those two rn.

[skitter30]

The idea of wanting to protect our potentially only investigative isn't inherently scummy, imo

I disagree with him but I can understand the perspective?

idk it's kinda bothering me because it feels very like mechanically minded? and not really play-minded

like it feels kinda like going down a checklist of 'correct' play or the 'correct' way to approach investigatives but it kinda ignores their play? idk

like i understand the perspective yeah but i really don't agree with it like at all in this instance

[Shoshin]

I agree 100% with Skitter.

[Xtoxm]

i mean i could link you a couple examples of me protecting people for purely mechanical reasons if you cared but i dont feel like that would actually change anything with your stance on me
im not someone that makes a subpar play just because i happen to be scumreading someone. mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

[AlmostNancy]

Honestly performer has mostly read null for me. I did find it odd that he vote parked me for so long yesterday without actually pushing me at all. In hindsight perhaps that was a scum indication.

But really it's that hammer. And you guys keep shitting on me for this. I think my position and his yesterday were uniquely similar. We spent the day being the 2 primary wagons until deadline came around. And then with NM at L-1, we had very different approaches. We were both off the wagon. I was around and posting. I could have done the same thing, we were both equally vulnerable for being a possible counter wagon if NM turned up and claimed. 6 hours was honestly a really LONG time away from deadline in our situation. I had zero thoughts of hammering. I wanted to see what NM had to say. But Perf came in and naked hammered. It was survivalistic. It was so different to how I was looking at the game in that moment, that i'm convinced it came from a scum place.

It’s definitely possible but I really don’t think NM had any intention of claiming anything but Performer should certainly have asked first.

Should we try to fill in the blanks here and assume that Mewtaph’s claim liar is Performer?

It’s tough because he’s not giving us any clue who the liar is. I just find Performer’s claim, hard to believe as making sense, setup-wise.

Maybe but we'll never know because he had the chance taken away 6 hours before deadline. Perf also didn't know.

Mewtaph has voted Perf so it's safe to assume whatever info it is, does not give us a reason to exclude Perf from lynch. Mew insists saying more would be anti-town, so I don't want to think much more than that.

Well, the problem with that wrt to Mew, is I don’t have a read on him yet, so I don’t know how to properly evaluate that rn.

I think things will a lot clearer on that, closer to EOD, so I’m not rushing my vote.

[skitter30]

actually it would be helpful for me if you could link those examples and would influence how i read you; if htis is an approach you usually take as town i woudln't necessarily find it scummy for you to do it here

[Shoshin]

mechanics are FAR more reliable in this game than reads.

I strongly disagree. You can't reliably outguess the mod or know what sorts of misdirection powers scum have. Behaviors, on the other hand, never lie.

[Nauci]

Tbqh I'd prefer a Keyser lynch over the other 2 today because I feel his scumminess in my bones and the only thing stopping me is what happened in Watchmen Wanted when I was also scumreading him (though that was more strongly conflicted while this is a weaker but more pure scum read)

Has everyone dropped expectations of kokichi to post and are just waiting on whatever ~*~mechanic~*~ to reveal itself?

[AlmostNancy]

The biggest beef I have is that I don't feel like town!keyser would be intentionally obtuse about the way mew is claiming someone is lying

Idk if I've ever seen Keyser so intentionally misrep something, or be a big Lynch All Liars proponent

It feels so scummy that I'd be willing to lynch a claimed investigative

It worked out when I was adamant about dunking ducky that one time

Why not wait for Key to prove or disprove his claim?