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Post Post #3475 (ISO) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 2:00 pm

Post by Sudo_Nym »

In post 3473, PJ. wrote:
In post 3467, Sudo_Nym wrote:So, as a guy who prefers control decks, I've been having most success with this:
Image

It's kind of annoying.



What's this do?


It's an aggro-midrange deck. You play powerful minions (Ancient Watcher, Eerie Statue, Fel Reaver) that are cheap because they have downsides, then use a Silence effect to eliminate the downside. It's not uncommon for me to innervate out an Eerie Statue t2, then coin Keeper swing for 7 on t3. Very few decks have answers to creatures that big that early in the game, and sometimes they think that they're safe from Eerie Statue because they played a Muster or whatever, so they don't bother answering. But if they don't answer, they lose. Even if they do answer, they usually still get at least one hit in, which is enough to really pressure an opponent. Often, I only get one hit with the big creatures before the opponent takes them down, but that usually means that they're low enough that I can finish with Druid of the Claw in charge mode, or a half-combo: I'd have to check the stats, but I'm pretty sure that my most common finish is using Wailing Soul/Keeper of the Grove to silence a Statue or Watcher, pound the opponent until he answers, and then Savage Roar on whatever I have left for the reach. I almost never need to rely on getting the full Force of Nature+Savage Roar combo. And with a good draw, you can take down a Secretdin before the Challenger comes out.
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Post Post #3476 (ISO) » Fri Feb 12, 2016 5:07 pm

Post by PJ. »

What can you use instead of Fel Reaver. Cause I hate Fel Reaver.
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Post Post #3477 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 4:45 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

I suppose you could try finding another cheap 8/8. Why do you hate Fel Reaver?
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Post Post #3478 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 5:06 am

Post by MTD »

Ragnaros can be decent in that deck imo
still the same old MTD
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Post Post #3479 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:03 pm

Post by PJ. »

Because I feel the draw back is way too large. The drawback basically reads "lose the game unless fel reavers wins it" and I just feel it doesn't win the game enough.
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Post Post #3480 (ISO) » Sat Feb 13, 2016 10:37 pm

Post by pickemgenius »

In post 3479, PJ. wrote:Because I feel the draw back is way too large. The drawback basically reads "lose the game unless fel reavers wins it" and I just feel it doesn't win the game enough.


This is why I hate Fel Reaver.

I think I've lost to Fel Reaver.... once? Out of like.... dozens and dozens of times.
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Post Post #3481 (ISO) » Sun Feb 14, 2016 5:40 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

In an all out aggro deck like this one, especially one that carries Silence effects, it's not really a downside. The thing about Mill in hearthstone is that it doesn't actually hurt you unless you get to fatigue; Fel Reaver burning the card is the same as not drawing it. And generally, if you're reaching fatigue with this deck, you've lost, regardless of whether Fel Reaver has actually burned anything.
One time, back in 'nam, Sudo was set upon by an entire squadron of charlies. He challenged them all to a game of Pictionary, which he won resoundingly. The charlies were forced to not only surrender the skirmish, but also their world-famous chili recipe, which Sudo sold to Texas for a hefty profit. Sudo is a master of diplomacy.
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Post Post #3482 (ISO) » Sun Feb 14, 2016 6:04 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

Though if you really hate Fel Reaver, you can try playing Ancient Shade once Piloted Shredder rotates out. The problem is that the deck relies on having undercosted beaters, and there aren't enough to play if you don't like Fel Reaver.
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Post Post #3483 (ISO) » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:19 am

Post by 3dicerolling »

I'm not sure how to get pictures from phone here easily, so I'm just going to summarize.

Arena paladin with 2 quartermasters, 2 muster battles, sword of justice, avenge, raid leader, dire wolf.

Yeah I feel really dirty.
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Post Post #3484 (ISO) » Sun Feb 14, 2016 10:02 pm

Post by AngryPidgeon »

AP predicts what cards will be good in standard!~


Good news everyone! You are all excited about standard format and all the new decks that will suddenly become viable. Its hard to predict which currently unplayable cards will start to see some playtime without powercreep around to shunt them. Which of those dust-collectors in the old shoebox deserve a second chance with GvG and Naxx shuffling out? I have consulted my magic 8-ball to answer just that question. You can bet that all of these predictions are guaranteed to be accurate or your money back.

A number of cards already see fringe playtime. It is safe to predict that most fringe cards will see more use with direct competitors being removed. Cards like Edwin Van Cleef which are not staples in most lists but are used in some combo or unique lists will see a rise in popularity proportional to the amount of currently playable direct competitors they have rotating out. The 4-drop slot in particular will be largely impacted with shredder leaving and there is already plenty of speculation on which cards will appear after shredder dies.

Blizzard also announced some cards will be nerfed when Standard is released. These nerfs are unclear and could further affect the playability of cards in Standard. I may factor some expected nerfs into my predictions, but its not my aim to outguess the balance team that nerfed warsong commander. Lets get right into it.

Paladin is taking one of the most notable hits. Almost all of the cards in secret-paladin are being cycled out. The deck is only losing one 'core' card in Avenge and could hypothetically refit its curve while still keeping the late game Tirion/Challenger engine. The main problem with that is replacing Muster for Battle and Shieldbot which were standalone cards for high value and tempo. I'd wager that paladin won't be playing secrets for a while. Aggro paladin may see some resurgence to fill the void left by secret. Aggro paladin is not losing very many cards as a result of the rotation. The most notable would still be Muster and Shieldbot which will affect every single paladin list.

Mech synergy is dead and gone with GvG. Mechwarper, Shredder, Cogmaster, Spider Tank, Clockwork Gnome, and all the class specific mech cards are all leaving. Gorillabot will be unplayable as will any of the other slight mech synergy cards tacked on in post-GvG sets. Notably, mech mage is entirely gutted. Mage will still retain most of its freeze list with notable exception of Mad Scientist. I doubt that losing scientist will have a huge affect on freeze's viability. If anything, it will takeout a couple of its secrets and fit the deck with more heal or burst. Tempo mage loses Mad Scientist, Flamecannon, and Unstable Portal. None of these are enough to drastically change tempo which will continue to be a good deck in Standard. Kirin Tor Mage may replace Mad Scientist as a secret acceleration engine. Mage secrets can be played around but are almost always high-value cards. A 3 for 4/3 is solid stats and may be enough to be the new Scientist for tempo mage decks still running secrets.

Warlock has a short but distinguished list of cards cycling out. Mal Ganis, Dark Bomb, and Implosion are all critical to multiple warlock archetypes. Dreadsteed is dead right out the gates without these three cards. Zoo will likely still be playable but will see some growing pains as people figure out what to replace Naxx Egg, Naxx Spiders, and Implosion with. Hand and Reno warlock will be fairly unchanged structurally except with some slightly different seasonings. Speaking of Reno Jackson, I fear that the lack of all the Naxx and GvG staples will make padding decklists harder. Reno may very well fall off as good cards are more of a premium. Aggro may rise in response to a lack of Reno, Belchers, and Healbots. Zoo is sort of aggro and will benefit from this shift.

Anduin is losing Shrinkmeister, Velen's Chosen, Voljin, Light Bomb, and Dark Cultist class cards which are critical in most priest decks. These cards will affect most priest lists, allowing more diversity in the 3-drop slot as a result. The class is taking a large hit though. Since priest is often a deterrent to aggro decks there is even more reason to suspect that aggro decks and fringe aggro cards will flood the meta. Dragon priest keeps its dragon engine and will likely be the most common priest deck in standard after finding replacements. The most interesting and unanticipated change for priest is Deathlord. Entomb created a very slow priest deck which played no real win cons, expecting to steal them from opponents and win in fatigue. Deathlord is played in this list and is critical in slowing down aggro and tempo decks. It is possible that this type of deck will fall out of favor with Standard.

Shaman will not miss too many cards, Crackle and Zap-o-Matic being the primary exceptions. Face Shaman is the only serious shaman deck in this meta and it will be playable. The mech side of the deck will be replaced by different aggressive neutral cards. The removal of anti-aggro cards will outweigh the losses that face shaman incurs. Warrior is in a comparable position, losing Death's Bite and Shieldmaiden. Patron Warrior will die out without Deaths Bite but Control will remain strong. Shieldmaiden and Belcher are the notable losses for Control, but won't cripple it.

The two most enigmatic classes are Rogue and Druid. Rogue's primary loss is Sharpsword Oil. That is a notable loss, but only one card. Most Rogue lists will look similar to what they do now. Miracle variants will gain popularity without Loatheb around to hard counter them. Druid is losing no cards whatsoever. Speculation is high that a lot of Druid classic cards will be nerfed, particularly Force of Nature and Savage Roar. These 2 cards define all druid decks and limit design space. Its hard to say what will happen to rogue and druid with what we know.

Moving on, lets look to what cards will fill the void in light of the likely meta shifts and newly missing cards. I expect the return of Senjin Shieldmasta, like everyone else. More interestingly, Refreshment Vendor will rise to fill the vacancies left by Belcher, Healbot, and Shredder. The rise of aggro will also encourage Vendor, so expect to see it in many control and midrange lists alongside Senjin. Honorable mention goes out to Violet Teacher which will likely help fill the Shredder and anti-aggro gaps. Tempo mage and perhaps some new druid token decks will run it.

Inspire mechanics may finally have the breathing room they need to be viable. Currently, inspire decks are too dependent on early tempo to be reliable. Inspire can also work as combo but is generally too slow for aggro and loses value wars to control. I suspect that certain inspire cards will find playtime in entirely new decks. Coldara Drake, Mukla's Champion, and Boneguard Lieutenant are diamonds in the rough. Drake is a less sure bet since it will likely fit into a combo deck and is specific to mage. Boneguard and Muklas are both good cards overshadowed by more reliable drops of the same cost. Midrange decks will consider Mukla's as a game finisher and aggro decks will pick up boneguard to replace Creeper, Shieldbot, Scientist, and Egg.

The 3-drop slot is losing Shade of Naxx and Spider Tank in addition to some class cards. I suspect Shattered Sun Cleric may return to Zoo although the disappearance of Nerubian Egg lowers its value. Harvest Golem will be reborn from the ashes in the effort to counter aggro decks. At the very least, paladins will run it to replace Muster/Coghammer. Cry no more Uther.

I mentioned Haunted Creeper and Scientist rotating out. I can see Bloodsail Raider making a surprise appearance in some aggressive or tempo decks. It combos with Brann and provides solid stats for its cost. Without the go-to sticky deathrattle picks around this slot will see some of the highest amount of new material and Bloodsail may be a big part of that in Aggro Pally and Face Shaman. Aggro is a common theme here for good reasons. I am willing to bet that Mad Bomber and Acidic Swamp Ooze may see some playtime in response to an aggro-heavy format.

Loatheb, Belcher, and Healbot disappearing will make 5-cost cards more flexible. The 5-slot already has a lot of sturdy alternate picks in Azure Drake and BlackWing Corruptor. These are fairly specialized cards which means some unexpected cards may still show up here. The need for anti-aggro and the lack of Belcher may get Abomination into some decks. Its actually a classic card, not Naxx! Abom fills a very specific role though and would not fit in any old list as a 5-drop. There are plenty of potential contenders for such a role but my personal favorite bet is Spiteful Smith. Solid stats and a decent ability that benefits any weapon wielding class. Spiteful's day may very well come.

That is a lot of text! I'll provide a TL;DR to fully sort that and condense what I think will see a resurgence in Standard.

Spoiler:
10. Dragon Consort
9. Shadowfiend
8. Fireguard Destroyer
7. Abomination
6. Eadric The Pure
5. Inspire (as a mechanic, in general, whatever)
4. Dark Iron Dwarf
3. Refreshment Vendor
2. Harvest Golem
1. Senjin Shieldmasta

honorable mentions to Nexus Champ Saraad (but hes covered under inspire), Spiteful Smith, Violet Teacher, Stormwind champion, BloodsailChampion, ShadowMadness, Acidic Swamp Ooze
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Post Post #3485 (ISO) » Sun Feb 14, 2016 11:31 pm

Post by PJ. »

well, everyone loses boom. So what fills that void? Do curves even go to 7 after that?

Also Hunter without mad scientist could be not so good.

Is there a chance WotC sues the pants of Blizzard for calling the new format standard? Is that a possibility?
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Post Post #3486 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:31 am

Post by Thestatusquo »

re:last one, not a chance in hell.
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Post Post #3487 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 3:34 am

Post by Bins »

In post 3485, PJ. wrote:well, everyone loses boom. So what fills that void? Do curves even go to 7 after that?

Also Hunter without mad scientist could be not so good.

Is there a chance WotC sues the pants of Blizzard for calling the new format standard? Is that a possibility?

Rag might.

Hopefully Hunter gets new cards in the release that makes it not suck.
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Post Post #3488 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:37 am

Post by PJ. »

In post 3486, Thestatusquo wrote:re:last one, not a chance in hell.


Just nothing to sue?
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Post Post #3489 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:51 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

In post 3487, Bins wrote:Hopefully Hunter gets new cards in the release that makes it not suck.

nobody wants this.
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Post Post #3490 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 6:52 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

also i still have a 70% winrate over about 50ish games with my Deathlord Hunter list
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Post Post #3491 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:31 am

Post by Bins »

In post 3489, xRECKONERx wrote:
In post 3487, Bins wrote:Hopefully Hunter gets new cards in the release that makes it not suck.

nobody wants this.

I DO
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Post Post #3492 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 7:32 am

Post by Bins »

I just want an at least second tier hunter deck. :(

And I don't want to have to play face hunter.
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Post Post #3493 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 8:10 am

Post by Sudo_Nym »

Is it worth playing secrets in Tempo Mage without Mad Scientist? Mirror Entity is fine, but I don't know if it's really worthwhile if I can't fetch it.
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Post Post #3494 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 9:40 am

Post by xRECKONERx »

no
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Post Post #3495 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 10:11 am

Post by MTD »

maybe
still the same old MTD
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Post Post #3496 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 11:32 am

Post by Glork »

I'm still going with "let's see what the new set brings and what gets nerfed."
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Post Post #3497 (ISO) » Mon Feb 15, 2016 2:37 pm

Post by Sudo_Nym »

I'm trying to limit my speculation because of that, but I think Mad Scientist is singular enough that we can speculate on its removal.

Although I would love to see like a rotating classic sort of thing, where old card sometimes get taken out and cards from old sets get put back in, kinda like MTG has. Be fun to play with old favorites and keep Standard in a bit of flux.
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Post Post #3498 (ISO) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:57 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 3485, PJ. wrote:well, everyone loses boom. So what fills that void? Do curves even go to 7 after that?

Honestly, I think Stormwind Champion might become a playable 7-drop. Its out of BGH range, ok stats and a good effect. The only issue is that its a "win more" card, but I think it'll see some playtime in midrange decks.
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Post Post #3499 (ISO) » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:58 am

Post by AngryPidgeon »

In post 3493, Sudo_Nym wrote:Is it worth playing secrets in Tempo Mage without Mad Scientist? Mirror Entity is fine, but I don't know if it's really worthwhile if I can't fetch it.

Kirin Tor Mage used to get played a little bit. I think it may make a comeback with scientist gone.

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