Mafia 48: Himalayan Mafia - Game over!

[Mr. Flay]

I'm not buying the Lee thing (or the MoS one, either). I've been scum with him before (not sure we've ever been town together), and he's careful. Lloyd's whole argument is predicated on a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily generalizable (motivations from player to player vary, basing vote on one person on another person's actions, etc).

Meanwhile, Fritzler and DG look scummier by the second. What's with the "gotta be on a bandwagon" crap? I'm not even sure I've ever played with you outside of chat, so maybe you're both insane, but Fritzler still looks like a better lynch to me.

[Yosarian2]

[quote="LoudmouthLee"]

Sir. Without sounding arrogant, I have a title next to my name. Wouldn't it make sense, in hindsight, for a rookie scum to START ATTACKING the guy who's listed as the paragon of Mafia Hunters? C'mon now. He was scared of me and began to attack me.

...

If he was scared, why would he suddenly pick a fight with "the paragon of Mafia Hunters", when you weren't even voting for him?

Now, i do agree that the speed of this bandwagon is worrying, which is part of the reason I'm holding my vote for now, but I don't think that proves the wagon is scum driven; I've seen bored townies do the same thing.

That being said, the way DGB was pushing for a speed lynch is suspicious, especally if LML does turn out to be town.

[Lloyd]

LoudmouthLee,

- With 5 consecutive posts, you seem to defend yourself poorly.

I hate to give someone who seems like (obviously) it's their first game, a bandwagon when normally (a) they're innocent and (b) have no clue on how to play a pro-town role.

- Your logic above is flawed, because tidus is scum, and not innocent.

Why would I bandwagon a newbie whop's BOUND to slip up anyway?

- It seems that you are admitting to purposely *not* voting for a scum (tidus) during earlier parts of Day 1.

- Also, your are misrepresenting facts about bandwagons.

When you hesitated 3 times in voting for tidus, he did not have bandwagons.

Post 102 - tidus had 0 votes
Post 105 - tidus still had 0 votes
Post 172 - tidus had 1 vote, from HezLucky

And I'm sure you're going to say that this is the reason that Hez ended up dead, no?

- You are defending yourself prematurely, similar to post 82.

Wouldn't it make sense, in hindsight, for a rookie scum to START ATTACKING the guy who's listed as the paragon of Mafia Hunters?

- You are arguing from tidus' perspective, which makes you look even scummier.

He was scared of me and began to attack me.

- Once again, you are arguing for tidus; this time, with an emotional argument.

Hez, I love you, please don't be mad at me.

I love you Pooky, but you're wrong here.

- The above shows your pattern in using emotional arguments to sway opinions.

I am good at tracking down logical arguments

- Was your use of the word "logical" a Freudian slip?

- Wouldn't a pro-town player be tracking down illogical arguments from scums, instead of logical arguments from townies?

Justify the fact that on this page along I have 6(7?) votes?

- When presented with reasonable arguments, people seem to bandwagon quickly in this game. It may be related to the setup of this game.

- 6 votes (#1 to #6) for MoS quickly in 9 posts - 105 (LmL), 106 (TCP), 107 (JS), 110 (Twomz), 112 (DG), 114 (NG)

- 6 votes (#2 to #7) for LmL quickly in 7 posts - 352 (Lloyd), 353 (DG), 354 (TSAGod), 355 (Fritzler), 358 (NG), 359 (Fuldu)

- Yesterday, you did *not* argue against quick bandwagons, when MoG received 6 votes quickly.

- Today, you argue against quick bandwagons because you are on the receiving end.

- You are being inconsistent in applying your arguments.

[Lloyd]

Correction above: In the 3rd to last sentence, it should have said "MoS" instead of "MoG"

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Fritzler's always like that.

It's time to introduce Goofball to God.

vote DGB

[Lloyd]

Lee and Goofball are scumbagos

not sure who their third man is.

I don't know whether to congragulate Lloyd for covering all of the points I was about to or suspect him for being possibly their third man trying to make himself look good by preempting me and selling Lee out since Pooky's eye was on him.

Pooky,

I'm confused by your thought process above. You agree with my analyses, but accuse me in the same post.

You didn't provide analyses for your accusations of DG, LmL, and I. Could you clarify your reasoning? Thanks.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

Agreement with analysis does not lead to automatic assurance of analyst's innocence.

Scum can give good analysis too. In fact it's quite often that scum do give the best analysis.

I'm looking for something. I'll tell you when I've found it.

[Lloyd]

You wrote "covering all of the points I was about to", meaning you would have given a similar analysis.

Thus, you went further than just agree with my analysis.

The commonality that I can think of between you and I, is that we both replaced into this game on Day 2.

After I replaced, I read Day 1 in its entirety, and perhaps you did too. In our first posts in this game...We both came to the same conclusion about Lee, which I found interesting.

[LoudmouthLee]

Again, you're yelling at me because I started the bandwagon, not added to it.

(As per the MoS argument)

And, as for the logical argument quip, I track logic. By keeping track of logical arguments, you will see that the illogical arguments will be more apparent.

The play today is DG. I will be more than happy to address your points in more detail, but since It's passover (plus, i'm getting my wisdom teeth removed tomorrow morning (5 hours), I will not be able to adequately post soon.

Lloyd, my biggest flaw is that I get way too emotional in games. Guilty as charged there.

[Lloyd]

Again, you're yelling at me because I started the bandwagon, not added to it.

(As per the MoS argument)

- First, I didn't yell at you at all. In comparison...You seemed to yell at me in post 369 via bolded capital letters.

- Second, I cited the MoS bandwagon to point out your inconsistent argument about quick bandwagons.

In post 39, you noted quickness of the DG bandwagon, but still joined it (you casted vote #5 at the time) based on your PBPA.

In posts 171, 172, and 177, you didn't object to how quickly the MoS bandwagon formed earlier (6 votes in 9 posts).

In post 369, you argue strongly against quick bandwagons, mainly because you were being voted (6 votes in 7 posts).

- Your apply a double standard argument against quick bandwagons, depending on who is being voted. That is inconsistency.

[LoudmouthLee]

Again, you're yelling at me because I started the bandwagon, not added to it.

(As per the MoS argument)

- First, I didn't yell at you at all. In comparison...You seemed to yell at me in post 369 via bolded capital letters.

- Second, I cited the MoS bandwagon to point out your inconsistent argument about quick bandwagons.

In post 39, you noted quickness of the DG bandwagon, but still joined it (you casted vote #5 at the time) based on your PBPA.

In posts 171, 172, and 177, you didn't object to how quickly the MoS bandwagon formed earlier (6 votes in 9 posts).

In post 369, you argue strongly against quick bandwagons, mainly because you were being voted (6 votes in 7 posts).

- Your apply a double standard argument against quick bandwagons, depending on who is being voted. That is inconsistency.

WOW. I'm inconsistent. I am FOR bandwagons on people that I think are scummy, and NOT FOR bandwagons about people that I don't find scummy.

Holy cow, lloyd. you deserve an award for that one. Mathcam would be proud, Captain Obvious.

PLUS...

I made notion, to FULDU, IN THREAD, about being careful about quick bandwagons.

Funny how your analysis missed that, too.

[DrippingGoofball]

Looks like Lloyd has ensnared PookyTheBibleThumper in his net with his superior intellect!

Agreement with analysis does not lead to automatic assurance of analyst's innocence.

Pooky... my dear Pooky...

If you agree with Lloyd, and think Lloyd is scum, then you should vote for Lee.
If you agree with Lloyd, and think Lloyd is Town, then you should vote for Lee.

Yet you vote for me.

Why? Because I am advocating a speedlynch of your scumbuddy? Say, how many of you are left? Just 3, eh? Day 2, and you're down one man already. If we lynch LML, and he's scum, which looks bloody likely, you're next, and you know it. You'd then be just one scum. This game will become SK vs. Town.

The both of you will fight Lloyd tooth and nail, and try to have me lynched. But I am Town, and THE BOTH of you will be lynched next.

You made the wrong play, scum. The Town is going to win this one. Pooky betrayed himself and LML in just a few words, a few posts.

It's never a good idea to mess with the Goofball. It's always fun, but never a good idea.

Lee, your post above fails to address Lloyd's points. You are as slippery as a politician. And you know what we do with politicians? We keep voting for them.

[PookyTheMagicalBear]

For the record I'd be happy with a lynch of either Goofball or Neongrey today, slightly leaning towards Neon atm.

She seems to have been posting against Tidus all through yesterday while being very noncommital and only walking on his wagon after admission of guilt.

Her track record for posting has been fairly fluffy and entirely too "I don't want to make any1 suspicious/annoyed at me" and feels under the radarish.

I'm less than impressed with the way she jumped on Lee's wagon.

unvote

vote Neongrey

[Fritzler]

I'm not buying the Lee thing (or the MoS one, either). I've been scum with him before (not sure we've ever been town together), and he's careful. Lloyd's whole argument is predicated on a lot of assumptions that aren't necessarily generalizable (motivations from player to player vary, basing vote on one person on another person's actions, etc).

Meanwhile, Fritzler and DG look scummier by the second. What's with the "gotta be on a bandwagon" crap? I'm not even sure I've ever played with you outside of chat, so maybe you're both insane, but Fritzler still looks like a better lynch to me.

Yea, you played in my first game, Good omens. I played horribley there. I have to be on the lynch because people have been voting me for not being on the tidus lynch.

[Norinel]

(bumping vote count to next page)

[Norinel]

Vote Count:

LoudMouthLee- 5 (Lloyd, DrippingGoofball, TSAGod, neongrey, Fuldu)
Fritzler- 3 (Mr. Flay, broomhead, creampuffeater)
TheCesspit- 2 (Dead Rikimaru, RandomActs)
DrippingGoofball- 2 (LoudMouthLee, Fritzler)
TSAGod- 1 (Yosarian2)
Twomz- 1 (TheCesspit)
neongrey- 1 (PookyTheMagicalBear)

Not voting (4): JamesSparrow, logicticus, Mastermind of Sin, Twomz

10 to lynch.

[Mastermind of Sin]

interesting. Lloyd's most recent post have been largely illogical, as LmL has pointed, out but his point about quick bandwagons IS logical, though he has not been able to explain it to seem so. Even if LmL thinks someone is scum, he should still be worried if a bandwagon springs up too quickly. Also, Pooky, your defense of LmL and attempt to swing attention away from them and onto Neon is noted.

vote: DrippingGoofball

He's sent up the most alarm bells for me. I feel that by lynching him, we can gain insight on the rest of thethe interesting players from today, ie Pooky, Lloyd, LmL, and Fritzler. As for the rest of you, don't think I'm not watching. You just aren't posting. I'd suggest posting before you get in the limelight.

[neongrey]

I openly admit to being a shameless bandwagoner.

Goofball seems to be raving a little much to me, but I'm not sure how much that actually means.

LmL... something doesn't sit right with me, about his reactions, but I don't know that I'm seeing anything -wrong- with them... I'll

unvote

him for now.

[DrippingGoofball]

vote: DrippingGoofball

He's sent up the most alarm bells for me. I feel that by lynching him, we can gain insight on the rest of thethe interesting players from today, ie Pooky, Lloyd, LmL, and Fritzler.

I am a "she."

You're breaking my heart. Along with Lloyd, you top my "most likely to be a Townie" list, on account of your posting and voting behavior during the tidus lynch.

Furthermore, you'll get way more insight by lynching one of Pooky or LML. Because I bet one of these two is scum. I happen to know I'm not.

Besides my calling for lynching LML after Lloyd's rock solid analysis, you have nothing on me. "Alarm bells" you say?

Provide evidence

at least, so that I can defend myself if need be. But you have no evidence. None whatsoever.

As for clamoring for a lynch of LML, don't you think that's a little brazen for scum to do? I would not have asked for his lynch had I not CAREFULLY looked at every bit of Lloyd's analysis, and fully agreed with it.

If you TAKE THE TIME to read and analyze everything carefully, you will realize that LML has answered NONE of Lloyd's points, not a single one, and I have to be suspicious of anyone that jumped of his wagon after reading a bunch of half-excuses that neither ring true, or even sound like they are even remotely related to Lloyd's post.

Frankly, I was shocked that Pooky unvote LML so prompty "with huggles" without asking LML a single follow up question. Then Pooky votes me in order to help me find religion, then votes neongrey!!! He's voting from the twilight zone.

*I am leaving tomorrow early AM for 7 days, I can only post, if at all, in the next 6-7 hours*

[Mastermind of Sin]

Do I need evidence for a vote? I'm not trying to convince everyone to follow me. My vote is based on my gut feeling as an experienced player, and I explained the reasoning I had. I feel that your lynch is more beneficial at this point. I don't need evidence to support my vote, because I'm not trying to get anyone to follow me. I just think that's where my vote needs to be at this time.

[DrippingGoofball]

I'm not trying to convince everyone to follow me. My vote is based on my gut feeling as an experienced player [...] I don't need evidence to support my vote, because I'm not trying to get anyone to follow me. I just think that's where my vote needs to be at this time.

*shrug*

No counter-arguments exist to defend oneself against non-arguments.

Something I learnt in the debating club!

[Twomz]

I learned how to make napalm in band!

I don't see your point...



(But yes, it is hard to defend yourself against attacks that don't exist.)

The thing is... LML was given reasons for being attacked... and he ignored them. I've been waiting to judge others reactions... and i feel safe in

voting: LML

for now. Shrugging off accusations bugs me. If you address the points put against you, instead of just saying how silly they are, i may reconcider.

[Dead Rikimaru]

nothing to fear,

Pooky is here!

Lee and Goofball are scumbagos

not sure who their third man is.

vote Lee

Explanation/Huggle Alliance info to follow.

It's strange the way Pooky points both Lee and DGB as scum while promissing further explanations that he never gives (only congratulate Lloyd's) and in a matter of few posts he votes and unvotes both and his vote ends in a third person (Neongray) for "fluffy posting" while conveniently pointing out that he wouldn't mind DGB lynched.

FOS:Pooky

[Mr. Flay]

I want to see Pooky's "Huggle Alliance" info as well (for a couple of reasons). Even if Lloyd did give good reasons, Pooky's usually articulate and competent.

[LoudmouthLee]

I learned how to make napalm in band!

I don't see your point...



(But yes, it is hard to defend yourself against attacks that don't exist.)

The thing is... LML was given reasons for being attacked... and he ignored them. I've been waiting to judge others reactions... and i feel safe in

voting: LML

for now. Shrugging off accusations bugs me. If you address the points put against you, instead of just saying how silly they are, i may reconcider.

Please reference what I ignored (I posted to Lloyd's point piece by piece).

I hereby annouce you a skimmer until you tell me the points I missed. Then, I'll answer them accordingly.

As for DG, Brazen to be calling for a speedlynch? Yes. It's called WIFOM. Stop trying to confuse the town. I'm still awaiting your response to your slip about Fritzler. The twon gains much info from your lynch.