You repeating over and over again that you're a Townie won't convince anyone.Santos wrote:Cops don't get guilty results on townies, dude. You're lying so much you're horizontal with the Earth.
Your three posts of voting and unvoting were not even two minutes apart. How would this have gotten anyone to bandwagon if they were watching the thread? There was literally no time anyone could have voted anyway before you unvoted.Santos wrote:@Scotty, I posted those votes to see if anyone was watching the thread after sekinj opened it up. But since no one was around, I removed the votes to wait for discussion. Basically, it was an attempt to get a scum to bandwagon if they were watching the thread.
You can't just say you're a Townie over and over again and expect people to eventually just trust youSantos wrote:Just vote old man if you're so sure. You know who you are, just leave it up for others to decide.I've presented the facts and they are undeniable: cops in newbie F11 setups do not investigate townies to be guilty. Period.
Why?ckool5000 Post 408 wrote:I very easily see a semioldguy/Santos pairing, but I'm also having trouble believing that Sotty7 is innocent.
Point one is something I am considering right now. Considering this is lylo, claiming cop is a valid play in this situation. It could lead to the last mislynch the scum need for the win. This is why I am not so quick to just believe Sens, even though he has found me innocent.Santos Post 410 wrote:1) He is scum claiming cop. A REAL cop does not get guilty results in Newbie F11 setups because I am townie.
2) He is scum either covering his partner Scotty (which would be simply stupid) or he is KNOWINGLY saying that Scotty is townie because he is scum and knows she's townie via setup 3.
3) His vote on his partner semioldguy in Day 2 was to divert the town's attention away from him the rest of the day which played it safe for him to claim cop on Day 3.
Sens has a point. Still I just get a sense of newb town from Santos right now. The way he is continually questioning the sanity of Sens, makes me think he is a townie with little to no experience with the newbie games.SensFan Post 411 wrote:Why so much doubt, Santos?
If you were Town, there wouldn't be a SINGLE question in your mind that I am Scum. But all the points I bolded show that you're trying to figure out whether I'm Scum, or that you're deciding 'not to believe' me.
As I said before, if Santos was Town, there would be no doubt in his mind. The reason you are seeing so much hesitation and doubt from him is because he is Scum, and thinks that it might look too scummy for him just to vote me for having claimed a Guilty on him.
Even after I pointed out that SantosTown would have voted me simply for claiming a Guilty on him, he still didn't do it; Scum usually hesistate to do anything someone says they would be doing as Town.
In short, he got caught by me, and has no idea how to try and get out of it, and the unnaturalism of his reaction shows that plainly. Town don't need to try and figure out what is natural, Town would know immediately that anyone claiming a Guilty on them has to be Scum.
By the way Santos. You say that the Town has no reason to trust me 100%, and that's completely true. But Scum also doesn't know if there is or isn't a Cop in the set-up, there's a 50-50 chance. Now, its LyLo already, and no Scum have been lynched. So what possible reason would SensScum have to fakeclaim Cop with a Guilty and an Innocent, both on alive players?
If I was Scum:
*If Scotty was the Cop, I'm outed as Scum
*If someone other than you/Scotty was the Cop, both you and them would know I was Scum
That would be an absolutely stupid risk to take; if I were Scum I'd be playing it safe today and looking for a mislynch, especially since its not like I was a top suspect of anyone.
You realize this argument makes no sense right?Santos Post 416 wrote:Just vote old man if you're so sure. You know who you are, just leave it up for others to decide. I've presented the facts and they are undeniable: cops in newbie F11 setups do not investigate townies to be guilty. Period.
Where?ckool5000 wrote:I found Johoohno to be very scummy, and now Santos keeps contradicting himself and keeps calling himself townie.
How does it not make sense? I've looked at all the possibilities of the situation. You're the one not making sense.By the way Sotty7, his argument does make sense, except it's a terrible and obvious argument.
Where is Sens correct about IF I was town? Where am I doubting who is scum? Where am I questioning myself? ckool5000, you'd make the world's worst lawyer if you walked into a courtroom and stated observations like the above without any proof. You've got to be kidding me man.Also, Sens is correct about if you were town, then you shouldn't have a doubt about who's scum, but you keep questioning yourself.
Let's not forget how easy it would be for scum to claim cop even if there was another legitimate cop in the setup. Have you considered those possibilities and how SensFan would be experienced enough to argue against a cop counter-claim? Why are you not seeing all the possibilities and only limiting yourself to one-sided scenarios? You're clearly not a very good mafia player if you can't observe all sides of arguments.Let's not forget how dumb it would be for scum to fake-claim a cop right now.
Again, are you joking me with this? Was I not adamant about lynching semioldguy all day yesterday!!?? ckool5000, you've got to be the worse mafia player I've ever seen. You clearly don't understand my objectives from the past and because of that you are going to lynch a townie based off one crap post that will forever be heralded as pathetic: post 419.Plus, it seems like Santos was trying to drag semioldguy in the line of fire in post 402.
You can't just say you're aTownieCOPover and over again and expect people to eventually just trust you
Sotty, the reason I am even at all bringing up the 'sanity' issue is the plain fact that there is no 'sanity' issue in Newbie F11 games. So because of my role and SensFan's claim, I know he is lying based off F11.Sotty wrote:Sens has a point. Still I just get a sense of newb town from Santos right now. The way he is continually questioning the sanity of Sens, makes me think he is a townie with little to no experience with the newbie games.
They certainly know it would be risky. But if this fake claim was in the hands of an experienced player such as SensFan, then its certainly a very good gamble because he definitely would have the ammunition to get the REAL cop lynched because he was the first to claim and his play is very cop-like by distancing himself in the previous days. SensFan is pulling a brilliant scum move right now and I'll be damned impressed if he tricks everyone into believing him.Sotty wrote:Also with two scum left, fake claiming cop is a valid play especially with a “guilty” on one player. It could be an attempt for a quick lynch. That said, I will say that scum fake claiming right at the start of the day when hardly any other players had posted would be a big risk. The scum wouldn't know if the town had a cop or not so it would be a gamble.
Why?You realize this argument makes no sense right?
Apologies, there is a lot of text to read and when the o in your name looks like a 'c' my brain is just registering 'scotty' instead of 'sotty' because I'm obviously brainwashed into a more familiar word as opposed to a more foreign one.Also, my name isn't scotty.
No his argument makes no sense in that he is constantly either questioning Sens sanity, which in a newbie game is insane. Or he is trying to argue the Sens claim is fake by simply repeating over and over that he is a townie.ckool5000 post 419 wrote:I found Johoohno to be very scummy, and now Santos keeps contradicting himself and keeps calling himself townie. By the way Sotty7, his argument does make sense, except it's a terrible and obvious argument. Also, Sens is correct about if you were town, then you shouldn't have a doubt about who's scum, but you keep questioning yourself. Let's not forget how dumb it would be for scum to fake-claim a cop right now. Plus, it seems like Santos was trying to drag semioldguy in the line of fire in post 402.
After this little post I am now leaning much more towards believing Sens. Santos, here you barely try to answer or refute ckool's posts and instead opt to attack him by calling him a bad player as if that answers everything.Santos post 420 wrote:Let's not forget how easy it would be for scum to claim cop even if there was another legitimate cop in the setup. Have you considered those possibilities and how SensFan would be experienced enough to argue against a cop counter-claim? Why are you not seeing all the possibilities and only limiting yourself to one-sided scenarios? You're clearly not a very good mafia player if you can't observe all sides of arguments.Let's not forget how dumb it would be for scum to fake-claim a cop right now.
Again, are you joking me with this? Was I not adamant about lynching semioldguy all day yesterday!!?? ckool5000, you've got to be the worse mafia player I've ever seen. You clearly don't understand my objectives from the past and because of that you are going to lynch a townie based off one crap post that will forever be heralded as pathetic: post 419.Plus, it seems like Santos was trying to drag semioldguy in the line of fire in post 402.
Lastly, you're either:
1) A terrible player on the town side
2) A mindful scum player that knows to vote now and hope one of the real townies will agree with your atrocious post.
Then this makes you look bad. The argument is silly, you aren't doing anything to show us that Sens is scum apart from continually calling yourself town and throwing some bizarre indirect dirt on his cop claim. I have acknowalged that SensSantos Post 422 wrote:Post 420 continued:
Sotty, the reason I am even at all bringing up the 'sanity' issue is the plain fact that there is no 'sanity' issue in Newbie F11 games. So because of my role and SensFan's claim, I know he is lying based off F11.Sotty wrote:Sens has a point. Still I just get a sense of newb town from Santos right now. The way he is continually questioning the sanity of Sens, makes me think he is a townie with little to no experience with the newbie games.
So far all you have presented as counter evidence to Sens is:Santos Post 422 wrote:They certainly know it would be risky. But if this fake claim was in the hands of an experienced player such as SensFan, then its certainly a very good gamble because he definitely would have the ammunition to get the REAL cop lynched because he was the first to claim and his play is very cop-like by distancing himself in the previous days. SensFan is pulling a brilliant scum move right now and I'll be damned impressed if he tricks everyone into believing him.Sotty wrote:Also with two scum left, fake claiming cop is a valid play especially with a “guilty” on one player. It could be an attempt for a quick lynch. That said, I will say that scum fake claiming right at the start of the day when hardly any other players had posted would be a big risk. The scum wouldn't know if the town had a cop or not so it would be a gamble.
I hate traps like these.ckool5000 Post 423 wrote:Hey Santos... Guess what? It was an attempt at getting the scum to reveal themselves by thinking that they were hammering and revealing that they were scum... I wasn't planning on actually voting for you just yet, and I haven't really organized my thoughts very well at this time... So... Yeah.
You should be doing this too!Santos Post 427 wrote:How can we know that he is the cop?[/end argument]
You just have to examine the previous play of both players (Sens and myself) and make a decision for yourself. If you make a mistake, then hopefully you'll learn from it in future games.
Do you think Sens is telling the truth?semioldguy Post 428 wrote:We should be trying to look as much as we can at the current play of both of you as well. You both should be trying to make and respond to cases on each other because you may catch something or make a point that the rest of us missed.
Right.Santos wrote:You can't just say you're aTownieCOPover and over again and expect people to eventually just trust you
Did you read his post? It was absurd.Sotty wrote: Santos, here you barely try to answer or refute ckool's posts and instead opt to attack him by calling him a bad player as if that answers everything.
Okay. Please. Help. Me. In. Understanding. This. I have been trying to offers ways the entire Day 3 as to why and why not SensFan would do what he did today. I have also offered evidence from Day 2 as how clever SensFan distanced himself in Day 2 by voting for semioldguy. Here is the kicker:Sotty wrote:I have acknowalged that Sens could be scum, why don't you try and build off that? Make case on him that has nothing to do with how cops don't find townies guilty.
You're joking me right? Right? Are you laughing as you typed that? Were you in fact smiling at how clever you thought it was to say that when all day I've been adamantly trying to prove my innocence to a strong cop claim against a formidable player? Wow, nice one Sens.SensFan wrote:is that if you were Town you would know 100% that I am Scum
Then please explain why you were gaga over muzzz being so pro town in the beginning of the game? Why do you think the scum chose to kill Rusty last night as opposed to anyone else in the game? Is it not obvious that SensFan, the more likely person to be targeted at night because of his experience, is scum because if he were town he would be the more likely target on Night 1 and Night 2 or evensemioldguy wrote:At the moment, yes, but mostly because Santos hasn't given much reason for me to disbelieve the claim or make me believe that he is town.
Aye, that would be a very good chance to take now, wouldn't it scum? Those odds are better than in Vegas. Any day.Sens wrote: You say that the Town has no reason to trust me 100%, and that's completely true. But Scum also doesn't know if there is or isn't a Cop in the set-up, there's a 50-50 chance.
I clearly read his post. So far I have found your posts equally absurd.Santos Post 432 wrote:Did you read his post? It was absurd.Sotty wrote: Santos, here you barely try to answer or refute ckool's posts and instead opt to attack him by calling him a bad player as if that answers everything.
No. Until this post just nowSantos Post 432 wrote:Okay. Please. Help. Me. In. Understanding. This. I have been trying to offers ways the entire Day 3 as to why and why not SensFan would do what he did today. I have also offered evidence from Day 2 as how clever SensFan distanced himself in Day 2 by voting for semioldguy.Sotty wrote:I have acknowalged that Sens could be scum, why don't you try and build off that? Make case on him that has nothing to do with how cops don't find townies guilty.
Are you a 100% Semi is scum?Santos Post 432 wrote:This is because semioldguy is his partner and Sens played a nice trick on Day 2 to distance himself from semi. We could consider that semi is in fact a townie and now we have the scum choices left between SensFan's accusation that I am scum.
This however is an excellent point. Sens?Santos Post 432 wrote:Also, SensFan, I don't want an actual reason about Day 2 from you, its a little too late for you to offer that because obviously you'll want to say something now that I've point that out once again, but I would like ckool5000 and semi to give some thoughts on why Sens just derailed his own scum hunt to investigate me last night as opposed to confirming his Day 2 option on Semi.
What's your point here? No one else is voting you, despite your horrid attempts at building a case on Sens.Santos Post 432 wrote:The question is: Are people so content with a cop claim in a multi-faceted setup or are they going to examine the evidence from the day before?
You should put yourself in our position. Lets say Sens came out and saidSantos wrote:The resounding criticism I am getting today is me trying not to be lynched because it would be a worse mistake than yesterday! I'm sorry if I am incredibly redundant, but all I have on my side of the court is my role PM and the blatant lie that SensFan is trying to steal the game with.
You are missing the point.Santos Post 432 wrote:You're joking me right? Right? Are you laughing as you typed that? Were you in fact smiling at how clever you thought it was to say that when all day I've been adamantly trying to prove my innocence to a strong cop claim against a formidable player? Wow, nice one Sens.SensFan wrote:is that if you were Town you would know 100% that I am Scum
WIFOMSantos Post 432 wrote:Then please explain why you were gaga over muzzz being so pro town in the beginning of the game? Why do you think the scum chose to kill Rusty last night as opposed to anyone else in the game? Is it not obvious that SensFan, the more likely person to be targeted at night because of his experience, is scum because if he were town he would be the more likely target on Night 1 and Night 2 or evensemioldguy wrote:At the moment, yes, but mostly because Santos hasn't given much reason for me to disbelieve the claim or make me believe that he is town.oneof those nights?
You and Sens are in the spotlight today because it is guaranteed that at least one of you HAS to be scum. It could even be both of you, although I highly doubt that.Santos Post 432 wrote:Here's what I think everyone is doing this day because of me:
1) We're too focused on me because of the 99.9% assurance that you all want to believe a cop claim and accusation.
2) Ignoring Day 1 and Day 2 as well as the Night choices.
3) My redundant and probably annoying display of a defense is clouding all judegment on other players becasue my defense is such a mess that is predicated around the simple truth: In F11, townies aren't investigated guilty by cops, especially cops who claim to be the cop.
…..Santos Post 432 wrote:Lastly, humor me this because this is a scenario we have not discussed at all today:
If you were a cop and received no result because you were more than likely roleblocked, then would you come out on Day 2 during Lynch or Lose to say that you think someone is scum?
If you answer no to that, then we definitely don't need to talk about that further. But if you said yes to the above, then we definitely have something to talk about don't we?
I already explained the rationale for investigating Santos, which he conviniently didn't so much asSotty7 wrote:This however is an excellent point. Sens?Santos Post 432 wrote:Also, SensFan, I don't want an actual reason about Day 2 from you, its a little too late for you to offer that because obviously you'll want to say something now that I've point that out once again, but I would like ckool5000 and semi to give some thoughts on why Sens just derailed his own scum hunt to investigate me last night as opposed to confirming his Day 2 option on Semi.
To expand on that, I have my faults as a player, as do everyone; wishy-washiness isSensFan wrote:Santos (Night 2) - He was suspected by several, and Johoohno hadn't been easy to read (and could no longer account for his actions). I didn't want to be in LyLo without knowing his alignment.