Mini 916 ~ Brrr Mafia. GAME OVER

[Zachrulez]

I didn't like the part of ISO 12 where she threw out the daykills to prove she wasn't a day vig. (While seeming to believe in the existance of some kind of vig.

1. It would narrow down vig suspects if you're a townie and not a vig.

2. Something about it just looks wrong to me. I am having a hard time seeing a townie eager to prove they don't have daykilling powers, especially given an understanding of point 1 above.

[The1fifi]

I don't know. I don't feel jasper is scum after his recent posts, but still i am afraid the truth os right in front of me and i am not seing it.

About jbernier and wacky. Well, jbernier seems a much more likely candidate to wagon.

I see you guys don't share my opinion about zach, but i keep my coinvictions. Plus after i acused him of tuneling he quickly turned his focus on other players instead of answering me directly. Zach, i never played with you before. You said you are usually acused of having "a off play". i understand that, cause thats what happens to me. Still, as far as i can see you are the most scummy player.


If town doesn't agree with what i said about zach i'd join a jbernier wagon, at least to make him post more.

[Seven]

I guess you're right about fifi not necessarily being clear if Jasper's claim is true. However, the chances of jasper being scum or anti-town third party seem pretty high to me, and I think we have a better chance of lynching one of those things than if we start by lynching fifi. And in this scenario where Jas flips scum, Fifi is almost definitely scum.

However, if we lynch fifi first whether she flips scum or town we have no real answer on Jasper until we lynch him. I mean to say between the two, we'll get more information off lynching Jasper.

This is pretty much what I meant. Don't know if it helps or not.

[Zachrulez]

Vote : Zachrulez

Your signal:noise is a little light.. .I am getting a IIOA vibe, too. Something is off about you this game... I am not sure what yet, but I think I want more analysis from you.

Who are your top 2 or 3 suspects and why?

Fifi is extremely scummy despite the roleclaim, and I don't like him at all. It's not protecting someone to point out that the action they are being suspected for is not scummy.

I also find jbernier suspicious for the hammer yesterday. I still feel it was a bit rushed.

I also feel like something is off about Wacky. I don't like the gambit she pulled. It risked outing a real tracker/watcher. Not to mention that without actually being a tracker/watcher, she would not be able to verify the response anyway.

All the setup and role speculation is really throwing me off and feels more like a distraction than anything else.

But I would like to know what motivated Fifi to target Jasper.

Also, I'm throwing out the idea of presuming Fifi town based solely on the claim. Believing it or not, a scum gunsmith is still possible, and everything about Fifi's play is scummy... so yeah, that's where I'm at.

Stop pretending that I am doing things I am not actually doing... like tunneling you.

[The1fifi]

Stop pretending that I am doing things I am not actually doing... like tunneling you.

nice play, but that post was before i voted you.
Now i have no doubt you are scum.

[camn]

@Zach,

For clarity.. (though I think i have been clear)

Fifi's play is not impressing me. I do not think he deserves a pass to ENDGAME.. .but I do think his claim gets him a pass until TOMORROW.

I am interested in any of his upcoming investigation results, obv... and I am also interested in whether he ends up dead tonight. He would be a pretty clear target.

I honestly don't think Jasper is that great of an alternative lynch.

The worst thing he's done IMO was not full claim once he was identified with a gun, but it's a mistake I could also see a townie making.

There really isn't anything about his play aside from that, which jumps out at me as overly scummy.

If we must lynch someone else, I would prefer wagoning Jbernier or Wacky.

I tend to agree on all points.

UNVOTE

I was hoping to get some answers out of him.. but from where I am sitting right now, Fifi vs. Jasper is town vs. town, SO lets do some analysis.

Active in this debate:
seven, fifi, zach, camn, Jason, Jasper... and MAYBE Nicky and Wacky early on.

Sitting back and trying to lurk a mislynch out of us?
jbernier93 .. and maybe Nicky and Wacky once they saw where things were headed??

@ jbernier93 

Where are you at on the Fifi vs. Jasper controversy?

[Zachrulez]

Stop pretending that I am doing things I am not actually doing... like tunneling you.

nice play, but that post was before i voted you.
Now i have no doubt you are scum.

Look again.

[Sotty7]

6th Vote count of day two

The1fifi 3: (Jasper, Zachrulez, jasonT1981)

Jasper 2: (Wacky, Seven)
Zachrulez 1: (The1fifi)

Not Voting 4:

jbernier93, Nikanor, McZombie, Camn

-With 10 alive it takes 6 to lynch
-Deadline is 3/8 @ 8am CST

[Seven]

Anyone not voting Jasper or fifi... FOS!

[Wacky]

Warning: Wall of text ahead.

On The1Fifi vs Jasper

1. Jasper:

To believe Jasper to be town, you need to believe:
1. Jasper felt like using his

only

kill after just one night of discussion,
2. The doctor got lucky and only one scum party

or

two failed kills or both killed regfan.

Not to mention that in a game with cop, vig, and 3 scum (fairly standard game) then scum with guns outnumber town with guns. If you picked a random person with a gun, the chance they are scum is higher than they are as a town.

The1fifi

To believe The1Fifi to be scum AND Jasper to be town, you need to believe that the1Fifi is a scum gunsmith (a completely novel role).

The1fifi and Jasper both being scum is completely possible, and IMO quite likely considering how ridiculously scummy The1fifi has been acting throughout, but in that case it doesn't matter which one you lynch first. Why not lynch Jasper first?

If you lynch Jasper and get it wrong, you lynch someone with no ability who had the poor judgement to nk a townie night 1. If you lynch The1fifi and get it wrong, you lynched a cop.

FOS: Zachrulez and Jason

for even suggesting The1fifi might be a better lynch than jasper today. As crazily suspicious as The1fifi may be, the payoff just isn't worth it today.

If The1fifi is not what she claimed, then it's likely that there'll be a cop to investigate her tonight and prove it anyway or something.

On the various comments made against me:

I didn't like the part of ISO 12 where she threw out the daykills to prove she wasn't a day vig. (While seeming to believe in the existance of some kind of vig.

1. It would narrow down vig suspects if you're a townie and not a vig.

2. Something about it just looks wrong to me. I am having a hard time seeing a townie eager to prove they don't have daykilling powers, especially given an understanding of point 1 above.

My rationale is that:

Assume DTM wasn't lying at the end - I'm not really sure, but he was town so if he was lying to the end then I guess he's a troll... Then there's someone out there with the ability to bold kill.

1. If it's an "important" part of the game then the implication is that such a role isn't necessary pro-town - e.g. an SK could have such an ability as their safe claim. Such a person might have pushed for a DTM lynch for that reason.

2. I pushed for the DTM lynch. So, it makes sense to prove I'm not that person.

3. It's not correct to say I believe in the existence of a day-vig, it's just that DTM roleclaimed the existence of someone with a day-killing ability, and DTM was town.

... and MAYBE Nicky and Wacky early on.

Sitting back and trying to lurk a mislynch out of us?
jbernier93 .. and maybe Nicky and Wacky once they saw where things were headed??

My timezone is halfway around the world from most of other players, so I would need to be up pretty late to be posting more than once per real life day. I'm not up late every night, and posting long ranting late night posts does more ill than good. "Early on" was like, yesterday, isn't it a bit early to accuse me of lurking?

Agree with you to some extent on Nik though.

[jbernier93]

Firstly:
A) Sorry for not posting much so far today, was sick Tuesday and busy all day Wednesday...
B) It is quite clear to me (well as clear as it could possibly be) that the1fifi is a town gunsmith who has been making some gobsmackingly turrible (that's right, turrible, not terrible) play. I also think Jasper is telling the truth, because his statements about his role have been consistent with one another; if he were scum, he would have had to decide once he saw the1fifi's statement that he would claim one-shot vig and that he already used his shot, but then say "I have a gun with no bullets inside it." I think that Jasper's actions do not correlate with how he should be acting as scum. Therefore, I think they are both town and are telling the truth.

Vote: jbernier93

Not even because of his hammer, I think that was understandable mistake (one I've made before), but because of his general lack of content on day 1. If you look at his ISO you can see he was just coasting by and gladly joined the DTM bandwagon.

I wouldn't call it a mistake, unless by "mistake" you mean "hammering a townie."
Also, this is the second case of Seven posting without paying attention to what's going on in the game... and I really don't like post 433 by him, since it seems to indicates those are our only lynch options, which is very, very false. And I've had scummy vibes from him from the beginning, so

vote: seven

.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, I don't like 433 at all.

Unvote: Vote: Seven

[jasonT1981]

If The1fifi is not what she claimed, then it's likely that there'll be a cop to investigate her tonight and prove it anyway or something.

See this here scares me

ALOT

it means outing a cop to confirm fifi... seems a bad trade off...

even if Fifi is telling the truth, it exposes the cop. I don't like that one bit.

[Zachrulez]

Yeah, because it's totally worth outing a power role just for that.

[camn]

Anyone not voting Jasper or fifi... FOS!

Except I have already proven that fifi is a bad lynch.. and so far Jasper seems as consistent as he can be.

When he denies being a DAYvig. (in 332) he even puts emphasis on DAY...

so.. maybe this should read:

FOS: anyone VOTING fifi or Jasper

Thus, explain please, Seven.
Why FOS all those people?

[Jasper]

Anyone not voting Jasper or fifi... FOS!

Bad form! A lot of these people are seeing both of us as town. I don't like this one bit, Seven.

Unvote, Vote: Seven

[Zachrulez]

Regarding 434, I have to believe Wacky knows better than to throw out that Jasper is scummy for using his kill, being almost anyone who is ever given a gun and a option to shoot someone USUALLY WILL.

[The1fifi]

Yeah, I don't like 433 at all.

Unvote: Vote: Seven

Well, one of the reasons why ou were acusing me of being scum was because i imediately hoped on your wagon with "little reason" and "following cam's lead".

You are doing the exact same thing.

I also don't like Seven's last posts, but zach remains my main suspect.


Abour jbernier.. Well, he is right about me and shares my opinion about jasper. Don't know if you already knew that we were both town cause you are scum, or if you are just good at analyzing.

[Jasper]

Actually Fifi, I disagree. Seven just said anyone not voting you or I needs to be FOS'd. People say you or I are the lynch today. This is along those lines.

[Zachrulez]

Who's lead am I following exactly Fifi?

I didn't like the post when it was made last night. I thought things through, and decided that lynching you is probably not the greatest idea despite how I feel about you.

[The1fifi]

@Zach : You voted seven immediately after jbernier. But i see Seven as a good lynch too.

unvote

Vote Seven

[Nikanor]

Howdy folks, I'm off to the mall to be a mall rat. I'll be able to catch up and make a post later tonight.

[camn]

Some things that interest me...

I'm really uncomfortable with a DTM lynch right now. If he flips town we literally have nothing to go on.,,,,<snip>.

I retract what I said here.....Specifically the part where I say we'll have nothing to go on no matter what he flips.

Yeah I'm pretty much satisfied with a DTM lynch at this point. I'm not convinced that he's mafia, but unlike Echo I do think we have significant leads no matter what he flips.

I see the DTM lynch as beneficial whether he's mafia or not. If he's mafia that's one down. If he's town I'll know who to look into.

As you can see, Seven really built the groundwork for a guilt-free hammer of DTM, promising that if he flipped town, we would have a lot to "go on'.
Thus, it would be reasonable for Seven to persue these 'leads' today, no?
But instead... we get this:

Vote: jbernier93

Not even because of his hammer, I think that was understandable mistake (one I've made before), but because of his general lack of content on day 1...

I think our biggest threat is Jasper. We are pretty sure he has a gun, we don't know if he can use it again. We should lynch him today just to be safe. Once we find out what his role is, we'll know if we can trust fifi or not. So

Vote: Jasper

and

Anyone not voting Jasper or fifi... FOS!

So What happened to this suspect list Seven had?
The vote on bernier is for HAMMERING, and for lack of day 1 activity.. neither of which relied on DTM's flip.
The Jasper vote and Fifi-hate.. both from today.

What happened, Seven? answers, please.

[The1fifi]

One thing i also noticed :

Seven posts general idea are like this:

"Lets lynch him, if he is town will see what we cand o from there.." ; "Lets lynch him, just to be safe"

This is scum at his best.

[McZombie]

so much to read x.x...but im here. I will post late tomorrow after work.