Mini 207 - Roleswap Mafia! Nightfall lynched, but who's won?

[mepmuff]

Well, this is going to be a tough call. I'm going to think it over a bit and reread the thread some more.

[Mastermind of Sin]

why would my vote clinch it? As scum or as protown, I have no doubt that mepmuff is innocent. I have always believed mepmuff to be innocent. Therefore the only logical choice is you. I might as well place my vote, then, and leave it up to mepmuff.

[Nightfall]

If you really were town, I would have thought that you would have been at least a little concerned about whether a confirmed innocent was infact confirmed. You didn't seem to care about that though, and placed your vote anyway. I can say for certainty now though that mepmuff is innocent, seeing as he didn't immediately place a lynching vote on either of us.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I didn't care because i am convinced you are scum. you have acted like scum, and your distancing attempts make you look like scum to me. I had no reason to doubt mepmuff because i didn't believe your pathetic attempts to confuse the issue by placing doubt among the masons.

[Nightfall]

I didn't care because i am convinced you are scum. you have acted like scum, and your distancing attempts make you look like scum to me. I had no reason to doubt mepmuff because i didn't believe your pathetic attempts to confuse the issue by placing doubt among the masons.

1. I think you've acted more scummy than I have.

2. My distancing attempts?

3. Placing doubt on the masons? until just now when Mepmuff could choose to end the game if he wanted there was NO solid proof that he was a mason. even his "Mason" buddy, had his role revealed as "brother".

[Mastermind of Sin]

1. that makes no difference, it's up to mepmuff

2. see my theories from yesterday

3. when CA died, I knew it was true. they had to be masons, otherwise we had 4 scum. Your theory involved brother roles, where they each knew each other's alignment and whatnot, IIRC. I do not believe we would have roles like that in a 12-player game. A corrupted masonry is way too powerful for what we have in this game. Seeing as I believed you to be scum, your theories that made it seem possible that Mepmuff or Thok was scum looked like attempts to distract attention away from yourself. Therefore, I had no reason to not trust mepmuff.

[Nightfall]

3. when CA died, I knew it was true. they had to be masons, otherwise we had 4 scum. Your theory involved brother roles, where they each knew each other's alignment and whatnot, IIRC. I do not believe we would have roles like that in a 12-player game. A corrupted masonry is way too powerful for what we have in this game. Seeing as I believed you to be scum, your theories that made it seem possible that Mepmuff or Thok was scum looked like attempts to distract attention away from yourself. Therefore, I had no reason to not trust mepmuff.

When CA died you knew they had to be Masons? Because otherwise we would have

4(?)

scum? Before, when only gnome had died, that left two scum spots open. We then had two players claim masons. That is a bit unnerving. Then it was revealed by Mepmuff that they called each other by the name "brother", this lead me to think, okay, maybe one could be scum, while the other is a townie. Your complete trust in them made me think you could be scum with one of them. Then Ca was lynched, and then Thok died and his role came out as "brother", which made it seem more likely that Mepmuff was our scum. But since the game would have ended if it was me and two scum, only one of you must be scum. After you voted for me, and he didn't, that pretty much solved it for me.

[Mastermind of Sin]

just because they are brothers doesn't mean they have to have scum. a masonry where one of them is scum is too powerful in this game, which is why I didn't believe it. I don't even know why I'm bothering to say this. No matter how often I repeat myself, you ignore it and spout your own rhetoric. I'm just going to wait for mepmuff and hope he makes the right decision.

[Nightfall]

I know that neither of them HAVE to be scum. This is the first game that I've been in, that has had a brother role where neither brother was scum though. I'm pretty careful when I play and I try to take ever possibility into account. As for the fact that it would make the mafia side pretty strong in this game, I completely agree with that fact, and agree that the chances of that type of pairing being in this game would be rather small. That being said though, I have found that in the 8 games I have played (here) sa far, 3 of them have strongly favoured one side, so it is a posibility. Also, if we are counting odds, 3/8 games unballanced vs 0/8 games with a brother role that wasn't paired with scum (apart from this one) would make it seem to me at least that I was right to question the claim.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I also trust Aelyn as a mod to make a fairly balanced game.

[Nightfall]

I also trust Aelyn as a mod to make a fairly balanced game.

Geez you like to spin things... Now your trying to make it seem like I have no faith in our mod...

P.S. I like how you are allowed to throw in little comments like this, but when I do, it's met with posts like...

Situation:

I didn't care because i am convinced you are scum. you have acted like scum

1. I think you've acted more scummy than I have.

1. that makes no difference, it's up to mepmuff

[mepmuff]

I'd been hoping to have had the time to write up a post explaining in detail the thoughts I have on the both of you. But, alas. So I will just write down the biggest points and cast my vote.

One big thing that keeps creeping through my mind is the setup. Would one townie be itemless and one scum have an item? It would be dangerous to have all scum in an easily identifiable subset. But then again, we didn't go for the lynch-the-itemless strategy.

Another big thing is the sacrifice of Gnome. Nightfall voted first-to-last shortly before the deadline. MoS didn't vote at all. A no lynch would be preferable to the scum of course (having set up CA as not-on-same-team as Gnome). However we were already at three votes, which being a third of those alive would be enough for a deadline lynch anyway.

MoS gave CA the GBA on the day after Gnome was lynched. Would scum expect CA to be cleared by the town, which would be ideal if they wanted to do this to make it look like CA and MoS couldn't be working together.

Why was Bob killed? Did the scum know/guess that I sent the doc item to him? MoS couldn't have used the hat to find that out, because he sent the hat to me that night and he was not allowed to target the same person we're sending the hat to. So, it wasn't because they knew, although if MoS is the scum he knew he didn't receive it and that would make it most likely that I sent it to Bob.

In the end I made my decision on instinct, which was based on posting style. MoS wasn't very active in first days, while Nightfall's posts left me with the impression that he was trying keep a low profile by not posting too much suspicions and theories. Again a close call, but seeing how this issue puts Nightfall under suspicion, while on MoS it's purely missing info, I'm going to.....

vote: Nightfall

Right or wrong, it was a fun game and very interesting. Thanks everyone, especialy our mod of course.

[Commodore Amazing]

vote: Nightfall

[mepmuff]

I got it wrong, didn't I?

[Aelyn]

Nightfall is dead.

Game over!

So, feel free to discuss things, how the game went, and so on.


...


oh alright. Nightfall was scum, k?

Here's a complete list of items and roles. I gather the swapping is reasonably well-known at this point, but if anyone wants I'll say.



Policeman's Radio
You wake up to find that you have been given a policeman's radio. Obviously, you must radio the police force and ask them to investigate someone. It’s just a pity it takes all night for the investigation to work...

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the policeman's hat for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the hat at random. You may also PM me the name of a different person who you would like to investigate tonight; if you do, the person you send the radio to will receive the results of the investigation tomorrow morning.

First Aid Kit
You wake up to find that you have been given a first aid kit. It seems reasonably obvious to you that you could keep an eye on someone tonight and patch them up if they get hurt somehow.

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the first aid kit for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the kit at random. You may also PM me the name of a different person you would like to protect tonight; if you do and that person gets killed, you will keep them alive.

Mobile Phone
You wake up to find... A mobile phone with plenty of credit?! Awesome! You can chat with whoever you like for as long as you like tonight!

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the mobile phone for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the phone at random. You may also PM me the name of a different person you would like to chat to tonight; if you do, they'll be so busy talking to you that they won't be able to do anything else tonight.

Scary-looking Gun
You wake up to find a rather chilling sight - a gun! To begin with, you shy away from the weapon, but you start to think after a while that perhaps the gun is a blessing in disguise...

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the scary-looking gun for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the gun at random. You may also PM me the name of a different person you would like to go out and *gulp* shoot tonight; if you do, that person will die.

Loudspeaker
You wake up to find a loudspeaker. Strange. Could be useful, though - perhaps the raised volume will help you let people know what you're thinking, although it's hard to pretend you didn't say something when it was five times louder than anything else.

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the loudspeaker for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the loudspeaker at random.
Today, any vote you make cannot be taken back - that is to say, you cannot unvote today. However, you can have any number of votes at any time - you could be voting six different people, or have eight votes on one person. One person isn't enough to lynch someone, though; your votes can only count halfway to lynching someone. If it's three to lynch, for example, your votes only count once towards each person.

Mailman's hat
How dreary. It seems that you've been given the task of moving around the items this morning. Actually, annoying though it sounds, there are advantages - perhaps you can sneak a peek inside the packages and find out who's giving who what. You don't have much time, though - you can only afford to do it once.

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the mailman's hat for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the hat at random. You may also PM me the name of a different person whose packages you would like to check this morning. If you do, you'll find out what items that person had last night and who they sent them off to.

Game Boy Advance
Wheee! Happy happy happy! You've been given a fun computer game today, and you can play on it all day long! Of course, it is rather distracting, and you won't have too much time to participate in the conversations going on outside... But you don't care too much. Let them puzzle out what's going on.

Tonight, you must PM me the name of the person to which you would like to give the Game Boy Advance for tomorrow; if you don't, someone will be given the GBA at random.
Today, you may only post a total of ten times in the thread. You may NOT post an indication of the number of posts remaining, and you may NOT implicitly or explicitly state you have a voting restriction. However, if someone comments that you might have a post restriction or asks if you do, you are allowed to say yes. Of course, there's nothing stopping you from saying you have the GBA.
I don't mean to be rude, but please obey the spirit rather than the letter of this rule and role. I don't want to hand out mod punishments; I'll try to be leniant, and will warn you for borderline posts, but if you're uncertain about something check first. I will give you a ruling as soon as I can.

ROLES:

Townie
You're just a basic townie, living alone. You don't like the Bad Men, and want them to go away. One problem, though - you aren't quite sure what they look like, so you don't know what to do. You decide your only choice is to talk with the rest of the townspeople and decide who to get rid of each day. However, it's not all bad - you've been given an item from the mayoress!

Each night, you may use as many abilities as are granted to you by whatever items you have; however, you cannot target the same person with more than one ability at night, no matter how many items you have.

Siblings
You live in a nice apartment in the centre of the city with your sibling, *****. You're really nice, both of you, and share everything with each other. You don't like the Bad Men who want to horde everything for themselves, and decide to figure out what to do among yourselves. Eventually, you figure it out - try to get rid of the bad men, and in the meantime, share everything with everyone!

You and your brother/sister may talk at night. In addition, each night you may use as many abilities as are granted to you by whatever items you have; however, you cannot target the same person with more than one ability at night, no matter how many items you have. What's more, you don't want to be greedy at all, and it would be rather greedy for you and your brother to horde eveything - it would make you no better than the bad men. So you cannot give any items to your sibling overnight.

Bad Men
You and your two friends, ***** and *****, live together in the creepy disused house just outside of town. You're greedy people at heart, and want all the items for yourself... But you must be careful. You know that the townspeople have ways of dealing with you if you try anything, and you know they hate greed. You can't afford to hold onto anything for any significant amount of time. No matter, once the goody-goodies are dead you'll be just fine to have all the wonderful items all your own.

Each night, two of you can do whatever you want with your items, and the third one can either do whatever he wants with his items or go out and... kill someone. You should all PM me overnight to tell me whether you are making the group kill or using your items. There's one small catch, though. You cannot target the same person with more than one ability at night, no matter how many items you have.

Intial setup:

PbuG – Policeman’s Radio
ogre – First Aid Kit
Thesp – Mobile Phone
_Obelix_ - Gun
Save The Dragons - Loudspeaker
Mastermind of Sin – Mailman’s Hat
Sineish – Game Boy Advance
Splosion - Sibling
mepmuff - Sibling
Mr_Gnome_It_All – Bad Man
kadath32 – Bad Man
Nightfall – Bad Man

[Thok]

Phew. I figured Nightfall was scum-once neither mason lynched him yesterday he had no reason not to trust us today as being protown.

Apologies to Sineish for lynching him on the third to last day.

I think the game would have been a bit more interesting if one scum had started with an item.

I'm not sure which item was worse for me to deal with-the GBA or the Loudspeaker. I can see why splosion stopped posting.

Good job by the Bad men to keep it rough-if not for the last second mason reveal, you guys probably would have won.

[Commodore Amazing]

And I really am just a townie that messed up. Sorry guys, I let you down. But my bet is Commodore Amazing and Nightfall now.

Good game, all. Sorry to Mr_Gnome_It_All for coming out of nowhere and trying to get you lynched. We didn't plan that at all.

The masons totally threw me off guard, and I figured we were finished. It divided the set-up into townies with items, masons, and scum. I had enough trouble talking everyone out of lynching a person who didn't start with an item on day one; at this point, I thought we were toast. I didn't want to post anything because I was afraid I was going to give away Nightfall as my ally (I'm surprised it didn't come up that day one, I led the charge against Thesp to save Nightfall from getting lynched). Nice try on the end-game there, Nightfall.

Overall, I liked the set-up, but I think starting a scum with an item, or just making it so scum can't pass to each other on the first day or something like that makes it a little more unbreakable.

@mepmuff - you said something about CBob being cleared, so I figured you would have passed him the doc item.

As is customary for me as scum, I will post all my night-talk as soon as I can get it all sorted. Just in case you're curious how that whole decision making process went.

[Commodore Amazing]

Night One (after first mass-claim, Thesp getting lynched instead of Nightfall)

Twilight. Whew! I can't believe we talked our way out of that one! We're going to have to decide if we should kill an itemless townie like Splosion or mepmuff next round to cover ourselves.

What do you think, is there a serial killer out there? My guess is no.

I do indeed have the roleblocker item (the cell phone). Any ideas on who I should roleblock? I'm thinking Mastermind of Sin or no one, since I could claim that I blocked Nightfall last night. Who I should give the roleblocker item to? I'm thinking about giving mine to PBug, since he's confirmed, and it's what a townie would do. What items do you have?

Who should we kill? My guess is either PBug or _Obelix_ since they're both sort of confirmed (_Obelix_ is confirmed since it's not likely that a scum would start with the vig item). If we get _Obelix_, it means that Aelyn needs one less replacement. The doc will almost certainly protect PBug. If PBug still has the cop item, and I block him, I'm basically telling him I'm scum.

What do you think the items do? I think the mailman's hat might steal items when they're being passed around, but I've got no idea what the Gameboy Advance does.

Oh, and I think both Nightfall and I are going to be getting some votes tomorrow. I'm planning on gunning for Nightfall pretty hard. If we have a doctor item, I think we should either protect me or Nightfall.

@Gnome - I think you should give the doctor item to whoever we decide to kill, so it bounces back to you. Either that or give it to someone that's not me or Nightfall. We're both pretty scummy, and you might have to carry this game. Plus, that means we don't have to kill Changling bob.

Since we have the doctor item, I think we should kill PBug. He's confirmed town by the mod.

@mepmuff - I forgot that Gnome gave you the doc item, so I was genuinely surprised that you reacted the way you did against me on day two.

NIGHT TWO (after Mr_Gnome_It_All is lynched)

That sucked. I thought Mr_Gnome_It_All would accuse me of being scum, so one of us would be more cleared when the other was lynched. Did you get any items? I have nothing.

I say we kill Thok. Unless we know if Mr_Gnome_It_All could NOT self-protect last night. Then we definitely kill _Obelix_. I'll ask the mod if he'll tell us if we could self-protect with the doc item.

I think mepmuff and I are going to have it out tomorrow. It will either end up with one of us getting lynched or him trusting me for the rest of the game.

I was right about the first part, not right about the second part.

NIGHT THREE (after Sineish is lynched)

Good work yesterday. We managed to lay low while getting suspicion on Thok, MoS, and Sineish. I have a good excuse for laying low yesterday and for lynching Sineish.

We're doing good; all we need is one more lynch (assuming the doctor doesn't get in our way). Who do you think mepmuff gave the doc item to? I'm guessing Changling Bob, since he said early on in this day that he thought CBob was confirmed. I think we ought to kill CBob. The way mepmuff was talking, it sounds like the doc item can't self-protect.

I have the Game Boy Advance. It is a post restricting item. You can only post ten times while you have it. You cannot explain what the GBA's restriction is when you have it. Whoever I give it to I'm going to have to say I think is scum. MoS gave it to me yesterday. I think I ought to give it back to him.

You and I could be in trouble if they realize I tried to get suspicion off you day one when I went after Thesp while you were leading in votes. I also took my vote off Mr_Gnome_It_All at this point (I think). If they pick up on this, we could be in huge trouble. We might want to consider a contradiction between the two of us so that it looks like one of us HAS to be scum or something. Remember, we only need to get one townie lynched at this point. It doesn't look like anyone can confirm us either of us as scum.

We'll probably have to lynch someone who didn't start with an item tomorrow. I'm going to point my FOS at you and mepmuff. It's very likely that I will get lynched. I passed an item to Gnome, I took my vote off Gnome to go for Thesp, and I got both Thesp and Sineish killed. If I were you, I would not take mepmuff to the final three. He is very experienced and very good.

If we try to kill the wrong person, and the doc protects, I will advocate no lynch. Who should I pass the GBA to? You? Do you have any items?

That thing about mepmuff being good... no offense to CBob, Thok, and MoS. It just seemed like mepmuff knew I was scum the whole time.

Anyway, good game, all. Thanks to Gnome and Nightfall especially for being good scum buddies.

[Nightfall]

I thought we were dead as soon as the item role call took place. I thought for sure the town would have taken out those that started without items first, but some how we survived. And then out of nowhere we get a mason claim... Ouch, it was like sprinting for the finish line and running into a brick wall.

I have to laugh at the fact though that the game ended with Mepmuff's vote, since he was the guy I've been wanting to nightkill ever since night 1. This game probably would have turned out pretty diferently then.

To my Scum buddies> great job guys, we actually did really well. CA- I know you told me it would be risky taking Mepmuff to the final three over Thok, but I thought from the previous day thatMepmuff was more in my corner on the Nightfall vs MOS issue than Thok had been.

I'm a little surprised that my 2nd vote on CA didn't seem to make things much harder for Mepmuff.

MOS > Even if I was town, I would have been a bit nervous about a mason claim were they call each other brothers.

Aelyn > Great Modding, Great game, but I wish one of us scum could have started with something... maybe an item that wouldn't even work for us or something like that.

All> *Scowls* Is there even a reason that I didn't get a single item passed to me all game?

[Nightfall]

Lol, if only I pushed a little harder for a Mepmuff nightkill... lol

Since we have the doctor item, I think we should kill PBug. He's confirmed town by the mod.

I say roleblock no one (I claim I blocked Nightfall)
I give roleblock item to Gnome
Gnome protects either me or Nightfall
Gnome gives doctor item to someone in the town who we're not going to lynch.
Nightfall kills PBug.

What if we do that, but we have Gnome protect me, then send the doc item to Pbug.
If Aelyn goes by the rules tonight, the item will bounce back to gnome.
If he doesn't then the town looses a doc item. An item I don't think WE need, and it would be a nice blow to the town. We will have taken care of the doc,cop,and vig roles, plus we have the roleblocker role. We couldn't have done better.

Okay, I'll kill Pbug.
CA you claim to have blocked me, but don't use the role, then pass the item to Gnomeitall.
Gnome protect Me with the doc role, and then pass it to Mepmuff.

Right now, I really hope we can either lynch mepmuff today, or kill him the next night. we should send the doc role to whoever we plan to kill next night, so we can then take out the item too. Sin would be my next choice.

I'm going to pm my night choice of killing PBug right now.

Okay, lets kill _Obelix_. I'm really starting to want Sin and Mepmuff lynched though....

Commodore Amazing wrote:

That sucked. I thought Mr_Gnome_It_All would accuse me of being scum, so one of us would be more cleared when the other was lynched. Did you get any items? I have nothing.

I say we kill Thok. Unless we know if Mr_Gnome_It_All could NOT self-protect last night. Then we definitely kill _Obelix_. I'll ask the mod if he'll tell us if we could self-protect with the doc item.

I think mepmuff and I are going to have it out tomorrow. It will either end up with one of us getting lynched or him trusting me for the rest of the game.

Congrats that was an impressive day.
I think we should be okay for a while still, they might have been a bit doubtful of you earlier but that looks to have passed. I too think we should take Bob out. This coming day we could really put pressure on anyone, I would think that Thok or MOS would be the easier targets though. Then if we hit the doc tonight, Mepmuff will be wide open for us to kill next night. As for items, I did not have an item this past day, and I have yet to recieve anything about an item for the comming day. I find it kind of odd that no one has sent me anything yet, and even odder that no one has called me out about it (This doesn't mean that you should though).

So to sum things up, I say we Night kill bob. If Bob is the doc, then we lynch thok or mos. If bob is not the doc, then we lynch Mepmuff. As for your item, I think you should pass it to Thok.

[Aelyn]

Aelyn > Great Modding, Great game, but I wish one of us scum could have started with something... maybe an item that wouldn't even work for us or something like that.

Actually, I freely admit my modding was not very good at all to say the least!

That said, I plan on running a large roleswap game at some point in the future. Reading this game has given me a fair few ideas for future games, but I'm not gonna let any details out, obviously Let's just say it won't be such a cut-and-dried, breakable setup.

[Mastermind of Sin]

I thought we were dead as soon as the item role call took place. I thought for sure the town would have taken out those that started without items first, but some how we survived. And then out of nowhere we get a mason claim... Ouch, it was like sprinting for the finish line and running into a brick wall.

I have to laugh at the fact though that the game ended with Mepmuff's vote, since he was the guy I've been wanting to nightkill ever since night 1. This game probably would have turned out pretty diferently then.

To my Scum buddies> great job guys, we actually did really well. CA- I know you told me it would be risky taking Mepmuff to the final three over Thok, but I thought from the previous day thatMepmuff was more in my corner on the Nightfall vs MOS issue than Thok had been.

I'm a little surprised that my 2nd vote on CA didn't seem to make things much harder for Mepmuff.

MOS > Even if I was town, I would have been a bit nervous about a mason claim were they call each other brothers.

Aelyn > Great Modding, Great game, but I wish one of us scum could have started with something... maybe an item that wouldn't even work for us or something like that.

All> *Scowls* Is there even a reason that I didn't get a single item passed to me all game?

killing mepmuff would've sucked, because we would've lost th mailman's hat.

Nightfall, your second vote on CA didn't mean anything, since we had both said we would vote for CA. All it meant was that you got online to switch before I did, which was the case anyways.

Lol, and here I thought mepmuff was in MY corner going to night! I watched Thok that last night because I figured mepmuff would die, but I didn't want to pass you the mailman's hat, so I had to give it to mepmuff after watching Thok.

Well, I never passed to you because I never really trusted you . Not that I felt you were really scum until the last 2 days, but I didn't trust you to be good, either.

Anyways, congrats to mepmuff for making the right choice. I was doing my best to show that nightfall was scum, and nightfall did a good job defending against it. As for some of the things I said that showed more personality than factual stuff (i.e. I didn't

care

), that was just my playstyle normally, and I was hoping mepmuff would see that. Really, I think our scumminess the last few days was approximately the same, from the masons' point of view. I was hoping your earlier actions would betray you, and I got lucky. Congrats again to mepmuff, and congrats on a well-played game, scum.

[Nightfall]

Really, I think our scumminess the last few days was approximately the same, from the masons' point of view. I was hoping your earlier actions would betray you, and I got lucky. Congrats again to mepmuff, and congrats on a well-played game, scum.

That's why I was also questioning the mason issue as much as I could. Early in the game, I thought we could be lynched any second because I was pretty sure people knew itemless ment scum (with 1 0r 2 exceptions).
So I was trying to do some scum playing, and it really showed. Then when it looked like we could actually pull it off, I was able to act alot more like my natural self. On the last 2 days or so, you and I were about the same in scumness, but I needed better then that to make up for my earlier scumness... unfortunately Mepmuff made the wrong choice.... (yes I said it ). .. grr...masons... *shakes head*

[Nightfall]

P.S. When I said that I thought Mepmuff was more in my corner, I didn't mean that he would be more likely to pick me over MOS. I had ment that I thought Mepmuff would have been more likely to pick me as a townie then Thok would have been.

[Mastermind of Sin]

ah, lol

I felt that while the mason issue was a good ploy, you way overemphasized it. That's why I felt safe trusting the masons, because your actions named you scum in my eyes.