Open 159 - Lovers Mafia - Game over before 823

[Haylen]

camn. Chill.

[camn]

Ok.

[Incognito]

Actually, camn, I thought Ether's attack on me in that game was town-ish and not that crappy at all. I refuted her arguments calmly by showing her that she was wrong for thinking that I held up the game by not confirming right away. Didn't

you

find Ether town-ish in the beginning of that game? I could've sworn you only found her scummy when she began lurking, so I don't get why me supposedly acting the same way she was there makes you want to FoS me.

Also, why an FoS and not a vote?

-~-~-~-~

I can understand the role PM thing btw.
It's possible that you had other PMs in your inbox and simply missed the one from this game which led you to not confirm here right away.
I'm mainly looking for clues from your reaction to all of this now though as I think that's more alignment-revealing.
Have you switched to a "lucid and lyrical" writing style nowadays like good ol' Phoebus?

[camn]

You noticed!

[camn]

And yes.. I DID think Ether was townish.. but I was proven wrong, no?

And truly.. I had a vote.. but I replaced it with a FOS.
I don't think my case is very strong.. and MORE importantly.. I don't think it is

defensible

at all.. thus you need to get scummier before you earn my vote!

[Haylen]

No, please don't use Phoebus style. I can't read his posts, they give me a headache and now I'm going to think you are anyway because of psychology stuff. ARGH.

[Kmd4390]

Meh.
May I ask what evidence you have?

There's no "evidence". I'm only a vanilla townie. Are you?

Gotcha. What if I quoted one and said it was mine though? Would that be modkillable? If not, why? If so, why?

In an open game, only a terrible Mod would modkill for that.

I don't agree with OMGUS voting, it's a waste of time and a waste of a vote. Tally said it's not a scumtell though, in NG771 (which has finished).

Depends how it is done.

Kmd, what happened to this? You apparently had similar reasons as Incog for voting camn, yet now that you had the chance, you voted SpyreX, and immediately tied him to Haylen--without presenting anything resembling reasoning.

Well Camn became obvtown, as did you and Incog.

Kmd:

I think I know camn fairly well. I've played with her in quite a few games too, so I think I'm more than familiar with her sense of humor. However, I really don't think she was joking around there -- her follow-up post after you questioned me about her confirmation made me think she was outside of joking around.

If you really know her that well, you know that she tends to joke around while also being serious in the same post. She has fun in games, even when some points she is making are completely serious. So I think she was being serious about most everything else while making a couple of jokes. Camn, am I right?

I'm curious about this vote not just because of the thing Korts pointed out in post 45, but also because I received a fairly decent pro-town vibe from SpyreX's opening posts, particularly his post 15 where he seemed to be genuinely working out a way to "break" the game for town, so I'm curious as to why you seem to be receiving an opposite vibe from him. In fact, you seemed to imply that you were following his frame of thought in your post 20. Why do you think he's scum and, more specifically, why do you think he's scum with Haylen?

In this setup, 2 days is all town gets. Slicey's scum role PM also says outnumber OR equal town. Chances were slim that we were going to get a 3rd Day. Spy, as scum, may have realized that, but asked anyway to look better. Also, with you, Korts, and Camn all being town, what other choices do I have? It's Spy and Haylen. It's gotta be.

[SpyreX]

Not fishing, just mentioning. I doubt it is modkillable because she didn't quote her own PM. I'm not really sure as I've never came across this before.

Spyrex, I don't care what you say, I'm meta-ing you.

What good does it do to mention what you think is a mod-killable offense if the end result wouldn't be a mod kill?

And... what the hell? I dont think I've PLAYED with you before so I have no idea why you would single me out for that latter statement.

Incog, (I have not read Camn's post at the time I write this), I agree with you on everything except the OMGUS. She seemed to be pretty obviously joking. Anyone who knows Camn could tell that was a joke. But you do have a point about taking 2 hours and then trying to cover it. Honestly though, I'd think if Camn were lying, she'd do a better job of it.. Let's see what she has to say.

You agree with Incog and vote me for being scum with Haylen?

Which actually brings me to a different issue:

In this setup, 2 days is all town gets. Slicey's scum role PM also says outnumber OR equal town. Chances were slim that we were going to get a 3rd Day. Spy, as scum, may have realized that, but asked anyway to look better. Also, with you, Korts, and Camn all being town, what other choices do I have? It's Spy and Haylen. It's gotta be.

So you are saying I realized that but asked to look better? Which mirrors your response to the information given.

So, a whole mess of questions for you:

1.) Considering your pre-game push / agreement with Incog, why is Camn town?
2.) Why is Incog town?
3.) Why is Korts town?
4.) Since I am scum for mirroring your own sentiments, why the vote for me over Haylen?

[Kmd4390]

Spy, I agreed with Incog until reading what Camn had to say.

I don't think it makes you scum to have asked about a Day 3. I'm just pointing out why it doesn't make you town.

1.) She is reacting how she always does as town.
2.) His efforts in pressuring Camn, whether to start discussion or because he actually believes she is scum, look genuine and helpful.
3.) He's reminding me of the game where he went after me out of the gate to get the town going somewhere. He was town there.
4.) Wait, when did I say you were scum for mirroring something I did? I voted you over Haylen because.. I don't know, actually. I'd be fine voting either of you.

[Haylen]

Right, so I just spent ages writing a nice long post for you guys. Then I clicked the x on my mafia tab in firefox and the damn post has been lost. I'm not happy. I blame Spyrex. I shall explain why later.

Not happy.

[Kmd4390]

That sucks. I've lost posts before..

I blame Spyrex.

You thought you were closing out the QT?

[Haylen]

You thought you were closing out the QT?

That took me a while to understand what you meant there. How would you know whether a QT was being used unless you're scum?

If there is a QT, then I don't have access to it. because I'm not scum. The page I accidentally closed was Spyrex's wiki page, so I could quote what he had written about meta, which answers

And... what the hell? I dont think I've PLAYED with you before so I have no idea why you would single me out for that latter statement.

<-----that. That's why I blame him.

There's no "evidence". I'm only a vanilla townie. Are you?

Can you please explain to us how one can believe another to be scum without evidence? Sure, you say you're a vanilla townie. Hypo-town Kmd would know there are two mafia out there, and 3 more town. But he would still have to work out which two of the 5 are scum. And it's too risky to randomly flail around and point fingers saying 'you're scum, you're scum.' In fact, that's a sign of a person being scum. It also appear as though you are in the early stages of tunnelling me, which is scummy behaviour according to Tarhalindur.

Well Camn became obvtown, as did you and Incog.

May I ask when? At this stage in the game, no one is obviously town. I am beginning to think you are scum who has decided the easiest people to create a mislynch with were myself, and possibly Spyrex, although I am unsure about his alignment. It is possible that you were bussing him by voting him...

Spyrex:

What good does it do to mention what you think is a mod-killable offense if the end result wouldn't be a mod kill?

It helps clarify things, so I don't make a mistake in a future game. I'm trying to improve here and I think as an experienced player, you should respect my attempts at improving my play.

And... what the hell? I dont think I've PLAYED with you before so I have no idea why you would single me out for that latter statement.

I answered this already, but I'll answer it again. First place I look when meta-ing people: Wikipage, it either a) gives information on the playstyle of the player, or b) gives a list of games they've played. I was refering to your General Mafia Thoughts, point 1, where you express your contempt for meta. That is the tab I thought I was closing, but closed my ms tab instead.

-------

So:
Because he appears to know there is a QT, which is a slip in my eyes; because he gives no evidence for suggesting I'm scum but says I am anyway; and because of the earlier tunneling behaviour. I am going to:

Unvote
Vote: Kmd4360

[Kmd4390]

You thought you were closing out the QT?

That took me a while to understand what you meant there. How would you know whether a QT was being used unless you're scum?

I assumed it based on common practice. Also, if you look at the scum PM, it says scum may daytalk "here: XXXXX". I assume the X's are a QT link.

If there is a QT, then I don't have access to it. because I'm not scum. The page I accidentally closed was Spyrex's wiki page, so I could quote what he had written about meta, which answers

k.

Can you please explain to us how one can believe another to be scum without evidence? Sure, you say you're a vanilla townie. Hypo-town Kmd would know there are two mafia out there, and 3 more town. But he would still have to work out which two of the 5 are scum. And it's too risky to randomly flail around and point fingers saying 'you're scum, you're scum.' In fact, that's a sign of a person being scum. It also appear as though you are in the early stages of tunnelling me, which is scummy behaviour according to Tarhalindur.

Well, I'm only a vanilla, so the most I can give is my opinions and reasons for them. I believe three players to be town for the reasons I listed earlier. That leaves you and Spy who have yet to convince me you are town. So because I have the most doubts about you and Spy, that's who I think is scum at this point.

And you say that I am tunneling on YOU. Not you and Spy, just YOU. This worries me. It looks like you are paranoid that I am about to get you lynched. That or maybe you realize that your game is over as soon as Spy is lynched. Guys, we have the scum team. Can we lynch them now?

Oh, and you didn't answer my question. Are you vanilla? I think you are a lover with Spy, which would explain the connection. Are you?

May I ask when? At this stage in the game, no one is obviously town. I am beginning to think you are scum who has decided the easiest people to create a mislynch with were myself, and possibly Spyrex, although I am unsure about his alignment. It is possible that you were bussing him by voting him...

I already said what made me think they are town. And actually, the easiest lynches for me to push would probably be, yes, you, due to lack of experience compared to the rest of the players in this game (no offense meant by that at all as you could be a very good player, just not as experienced) and Camn just because of my knowledge of her meta and the way I could easily twist it to make her look scummy. Spy is anything but an easy lynch.

And there won't be any bussing in this game. We may see

distancing

, but no bussing.

Also, I want your opinion of Spy now.

I answered this already, but I'll answer it again. First place I look when meta-ing people: Wikipage, it either a) gives information on the playstyle of the player, or b) gives a list of games they've played. I was refering to your General Mafia Thoughts, point 1, where you express your contempt for meta. That is the tab I thought I was closing, but closed my ms tab instead.

Heh, may be offtopic, but I'm curious. What have you learned from my wiki? Did you notice the game I played with this setup before?

So:
Because he appears to know there is a QT, which is a slip in my eyes; because he gives no evidence for suggesting I'm scum but says I am anyway; and because of the earlier tunneling behaviour. I am going to:

So, listing your points:
-knows there is a QT
-gives no evidence
-tunneling

my defense to each:
-Assumption I made, as I'm sure others did as well.
-Process of elimination is what I have. Is something wrong with that?
-You said earlier in the post that I was tunneling on YOU when I am voting Spy. I have two suspects 3 pages into the game. There are 2 scum in this game. Do you expect that I should have more suspects than that?

Unvote
Vote: Kmd4390

(Fix'd the username for you)

*Waits for "It's not OMGUS because there are reasons and you haven't voted yet"*

Unvote, Vote Haylen

*Waits for "Your vote is OMGUS because Haylen voted you first"*

[Haylen]

No, there are other reasons why that is OMGUS.

I assumed it based on common practice. Also, if you look at the scum PM, it says scum may daytalk "here: XXXXX". I assume the X's are a QT link.

So you don't really think I'm scum but you're voting me? That's what that says reading between the lines. If I was scum I would've already read the mafia PM, wouldn't I?

Well, I'm only a vanilla, so the most I can give is my opinions and reasons for them. I believe three players to be town for the reasons I listed earlier. That leaves you and Spy who have yet to convince me you are town.

I am convinced that you think me and Spyrex would be the easiest to lynch, which is why you're attacking me. You've attacked me more than you have him. How on earth can I convince you I'm town without having you lynch me? That's just ridiculous.

It looks like you are paranoid that I am about to get you lynched.

Go check out my games, you will see I'm always paranoid of being lynched, whether i'm town or scum. For some reason I'm more paranoid as town. Why? Cause the only person you can truly trust in these games is yourself. Town don't know they've got the wrong guy til the flip, see what I mean? No one except yourself knows your alignment, therefore, the only person you can trust is yourself. With scum, it's the same, although you're more worried about your partner betraying you. See what I'm getting at here? I am a naturally paranoid person, it says so on my wiki.

Guys, we have the scum team. Can we lynch them now?

I'm sorry, but I'm afraid I have to disagree with you here. I'm not a scumteam with anyone.

And there won't be any bussing in this game. We may see distancing, but no bussing.

How come? Please explain why? Surely they are one and the same. Have you and your partner decided not to do that? Yeah, and how would you know if we were going to see distancing if you didn't already know the scums strategy?

Also, I want your opinion of Spy now.

Do I get a 'please'? I don't react well to demands.

What have you learned from my wiki?

Quite a lot actually, I'm not going to say what because that would be giving away too much information about how I think, another player once told me that no matter how helpful I am, I should never show my notes. I will say though, that I can tell much about a person and their playstyle by just reading their brief notes on the game and the rest of the stuff you've written on there. It just took a little bit of psychology to work out what I needed to know.

Did you notice the game I played with this setup before?

Lovers Mafia 139; Role: scum lover; result: Scum win. Read it already.

Process of elimination is what I have. Is something wrong with that?

Yes. Yes there is. When somebody calls another player scum, I want hard concrete evidence to prove it. Not process of elimination.

-You said earlier in the post that I was tunneling on YOU when I am voting Spy. I have two suspects 3 pages into the game. There are 2 scum in this game. Do you expect that I should have more suspects than that?

Yeah, why not? In other games it's fair to suspect more than two players when there is a two player scumteam, why not this one?

(Fix'd the username for you)

I can guarantee you I will be making that mistake all through the game. It's seriously not my fault, I'm not trying to be funny or anything. But I don't feel like discussing it any further here.

*Waits for "It's not OMGUS because there are reasons and you haven't voted yet"*

What makes you think my vote was OMGUS? I've already given my thoughts on OMGUS votes. They are ridiculous and a waste of a vote. Why would I go against my principals?

On another not, I am concerned about camn's slight panicking on page two, to the extent that I had to tell her to chill out. hmm...kmd/camn scumpair?

[Kmd4390]

So you don't really think I'm scum but you're voting me? That's what that says reading between the lines. If I was scum I would've already read the mafia PM, wouldn't I?

You are twisting what I said. When I say "if you look", I'm saying that it's right there as public knowledge that scum have a QT.

I am convinced that you think me and Spyrex would be the easiest to lynch, which is why you're attacking me. You've attacked me more than you have him. How on earth can I convince you I'm town without having you lynch me? That's just ridiculous.

Spy is not an easy lynch. That doesn't matter though. And TBH, I don't think you can convince me you are town. I'm sold on you being scum, so I'm more worried about convincing everyone else of this than anything.

Go check out my games, you will see I'm always paranoid of being lynched, whether i'm town or scum. For some reason I'm more paranoid as town. Why? Cause the only person you can truly trust in these games is yourself. Town don't know they've got the wrong guy til the flip, see what I mean? No one except yourself knows your alignment, therefore, the only person you can trust is yourself. With scum, it's the same, although you're more worried about your partner betraying you. See what I'm getting at here? I am a naturally paranoid person, it says so on my wiki.

If this is genuine, I need to step away from the game for a second and give you some advice. Winning is more important than survival. I'd suggest remembering that. Maybe even sig it. Don't worry too much about being lynched once in a while. It is frustrating, but it happens. I mean, yeah, defend yourself when you are attacked. But don't think "if I say this, will it sound scummy?". Instead think, "If I say this, will my opinions be out and impact the game in a positive way?". And if your buddy attacks you, don't think of it as betrayal. Realize that they want to win and are doing what is necessary [disclaimer, if your buddy were to attack you in this game, it

would

be betrayal and completely retarded].

Ok, back to this game.

How come? Please explain why? Surely they are one and the same. Have you and your partner decided not to do that? Yeah, and how would you know if we were going to see distancing if you didn't already know the scums strategy?

Let me share my definition of each term first:
bussing: Attacking your buddy with intent to lynch
distancing: Calling your buddy scummy. No intent to lynch.

If one scum dies in this game, they lose. Bussing would be pushing for their own loss. So while distancing is a possibility, bussing isn't.

Yes. Yes there is. When somebody calls another player scum, I want hard concrete evidence to prove it. Not process of elimination.

So you want me to lie about reasoning? Until my last post, I had no further reasoning on you.

Yeah, why not? In other games it's fair to suspect more than two players when there is a two player scumteam, why not this one?

I'm not gonna say you and Spy are scum, but so is someone else. That's impossible. If I'm wrong, we'll come to that later. Btw, this could apply to other games too, not just this one. I could reference most of the games I've played, so I'll check what my last one was. Disney mini modded by Llama. Ok, I named 3 scum (assuming 3 on a team) along with another player who was scum if I was wrong. But still, I pushed 3 suspects and just breifly mentioned a 4th as a possibility.

What makes you think my vote was OMGUS?

All I'd really done that was useful up to that point was call you and Spy scum and vote Spy. You said I was tunneling on you and my case on you wasn't strong enough. Your other point is weak as hell (I assumed a QT for scum), so I think you got worried that I suspected you, even when I was voting Spy over you, and you voted me.

I've already given my thoughts on OMGUS votes. They are ridiculous and a waste of a vote. Why would I go against my principals?

Maybe it was unintentional? I don't know.

On another not, I am concerned about camn's slight panicking on page two, to the extent that I had to tell her to chill out. hmm...kmd/camn scumpair?

Heh, I didn't really see any signs of panic.

[Kmd4390]

Btw Haylen, that was Post 64.

[Slicey]

The 'Day 1 begins' vote count!
camn (1): Incognito
Kmd4390 (1): Haylen
Haylen (1): Kmd4390

Not Voting (3): camn, SpyreX, Korts

[Korts]

Ether was scum when she tried that confirmation-timing attack on town-Incog in Mini 771.
It was a scum crap-case then, Incog KNEW that it was crap then, and thus it must be crap now.
In fact, his play here is TOTALLY reminding me of Ether in 771.. even before he brought it up....

I thought for a moment that your logic here is a joke, but it doesn't seem so on a reread. "Ether-scum presented so and so case, therefore anyone presenting so and so case is scum" is a laughable excuse for logic. Just because scum used a particular kind of logic doesn't mean that particular kind of logic is scummy.

Incog's case is valid insofar as you posted on-site around the time the thread was opened, and you confirmed in-thread only 3 hours later. Whether or not this is a scumtell is a different argument, but you can't conclusively prove that you opened your PM only at the time of your confirmation, so the existence of Incog's case is justified.

Asking you why you delayed was totally a joke!
At that time I wasn't even aware that I had delayed... cuz to ME, I opened the PM and went straight to confirm... so I figured you couldn't have been THAT much faster than me! I never looked at the times at all!
It like when someone says something.. and I immediately say the same thing about their mom.

Kmd, Incog: is this desperate reaction in character with camn?

Spy, as scum, may have realized that, but asked anyway to look better.

Since when are you a psychic? I think SpyreX's train of thought was legit--he saw an exploitable ruleset, so he pointed out how it could favor town.

To be quite honest I don't think Kmd's evidence to support his reads of Incog/camn/me are convincing, since I definitely have a different read of my own play as compared to my play in True Love. I'm getting the feeling he's using his gut as an excuse not to make real efforts at scumhunting. Not to mention me bein uncomfortable with him going for town reads instead of scum reads--process of elimination is a bad way to hunt when the people you're eliminating from your list of suspects are not confirmed town by any mechanic.

vote: Kmd4390

ALSO CAN YOU PLEASE STOP THE QUOTE WARS. BEFORE IT GETS OUT OF HAND. SUMMARIZE PLEASE. YOU ARE NOT MAKING ANY GRAND ARGUMENT BY QUOTING EVERY SENTENCE SEPERATELY.

I will not read post 63 and 64. Please, each of you, give a summary of the relevant points in each.

[Incognito]

I skimmed the last few posts. One quick question to Haylen before reading a bit more closely: without looking at Kmd's answers, what is your definition for the word 'bussing'? If you

have

looked at Kmd's answers, what

was

your working definition of the word 'bussing' before reading his answers?

[Haylen]

Bussing is where scum distance from each other and do stuff so they distance each other like making cases against each other and FoSing each other, maybe even voting each other. Kmd said Spyrex is scum, therefore, he's bussing him.

[Incognito]

Okay, so reading through, I'm not too crazy about Kmd's "clearing" three people as town and assuming the scum MUST be Haylen and SpyreX. I don't necessarily find it scummy, but it does strike me as extremely premature considering the fact that we're only on Page 3 now, and he was developing these reads based on things he read on a Page 2 only. I guess the only way I find his "clearing" people to be scummy is if camn is his buddy, period -- she was the one in the limelight, she was the one under the most pressure, she was the one who may have needed a hypo-Kmd-buddy's help. By joining these three people together as "cleared town", this could serve as an attempt by a Kmd hypo-scum to "join forces" with townies and redirect attention away from her.

Not saying that I believe this to be the case, but that's my interpretation of it so far.

-~-~-~-~-~-~

Haylen's case against Kmd is somewhat silly:

1)

his mentioning of a scum QT isn't a slip. I pretty much assumed the same thing he did given the fact that the scum role PMs seem to imply so and most games have scum use QTs anyway.

2)

he didn't give any 'Haylen's actions-related' evidence to say you're scum, true, but he clearly mentioned that he arrived at this conclusion through POE (process of elimination). See my conclusions above for that.

3)

What tunneling behavior are you referring to here? Up until this page, I haven't really seen Kmd tunnel on anyone in this game.

Kmd, Incog: is this desperate reaction in character with camn?

My meta on camn suggests that she's a very emotional player regardless of her alignment. I could see her being frustrated by what seemed like a case that she felt she couldn't really defend herself properly to, but I don't think the "desperate reaction" that you pulled up in that quote is much of a tell against her either way. I'd really like to see her thoughts on the other players though.

Also, if I'm understanding your Kmd case correctly, you're suggesting that you don't think town-hunting as opposed to scum-hunting is a legitimate pro-town tactic? Or do you think his town reads don't look genuine?

[Incognito]

Haylen: I see. I think what you're describing there is actually

distancing

. Bussing usually refers to when a scum completely drives his or her partner(s) to a

lynch

. In this mechanic, bussing is suicidal and would therefore be a very stupid scum tactic lol.

Kmd said Spyrex is scum, therefore, he's bussing him.

So do you think they're scum together? Why do you say this with such certainty ("he's bussing him" as opposed to "

I think

he's bussing him")?

[Korts]

Also, if I'm understanding your Kmd case correctly, you're suggesting that you don't think town-hunting as opposed to scum-hunting is a legitimate pro-town tactic? Or do you think his town reads don't look genuine?

Town-hunting is legit, just not really effective in my opinion. Process of elimination shouldn't be applied when uncertainty is involved.

I don't think his town read of me, in particular, is genuine. He's comparing my early game play here to another game where in my opinion I opened completely differently. His read of you is not hard to fake, either, since all he said was that you were "genuine and helpful", and his read of camn is entirely based on camntown-meta, even though you in contrast say that this is camn meta with no stress on alignment.

Also, the fact that he commits to town reads on three of six players this early would give him much leeway to maneuver with his further reads--since it is obviously not completely serious, nor final. In fact, to go back to town hunting vs. scum hunting, early game town hunting might be more beneficial for scum, since they don't have to commit to suspicion, only lack thereof--and this will be less evidence against them.

[Haylen]

OMG it was post 64! The 64th posts are special, very special indeed.

*nods*

@Korts@ Um...That was my summary.

@ Kmd -

1)I was not twisting your words, I was giving my interpretation.

2) don't get what you said about distancing/bussing. Please simplify.

3) don't want you to lie about reasoning, Mafia is about town telling the truth and scum lying, it's also about psychology. I already think you're lying. There is no way you can say somebody is scum at this stage in the game especially based on elimination.

4) I still want to hear your reasoning on why me and Spyrex are scum, it appears as though you are going by insinct of who is town rather than who is scum. As for saying you list another player as a possiblity, who is that person in this game? I'm concerned about your willingness you lynch a townie, you said that in a very casual way.

5) I don't have a buddy to worry about betraying me in this game. Perhaps you do?

6) I don't think my other point is 'as weak as hell' I think it's a valid point. As for being worried, I have nothing to be worried about.

7) It wasn't an OMGUS vote. I gave me reasons for voting you, and they are legitimate ones.

Korts

I'm getting the feeling he's using his gut as an excuse not to make real efforts at scumhunting. Not to mention me bein uncomfortable with him going for town reads instead of scum reads--process of elimination is a bad way to hunt when the people you're eliminating from your list of suspects are not confirmed town by any mechanic.

The above is what I have been trying to say but worded in a better way.

Incognito

1) Of course you don't find Kmd's saying me and Spyrex MUST be scum, scummy. He isn't accusing you, is he. Therefore, if you are not scum, then he can't be scummy because he isn't saying a town player is scum. If you're scum with him, however, you wouldn't admit to finding it scummy because you don't want your lover lynched.

2) My case isn't silly, I believe everything I wrote in there to be true.

3) I didn't say tunnelling, I said early tunnelling. Now, of course, he has said he's going to convince everyone I'm scum, it can't be seen as tunnelling can it.

4) It was hypothetical, I thought I made that clear.

And actually, the easiest lynches for me to push would probably be, yes, you

My brain interprets this as a slip. Guess who's lynch you've decided to push for?

And yeah, I may be inexperienced but I'm going to give it my all here. I refuse to rest until the scum in this game are dead, and you can't stop me doing that. Cause everytime you make some twist of my words to convince everyone I'm scum, I'm going to come back and push it down. I am going to prove that I'm just as good as any of you.

BTW why would town need to CONVINCE anybody someone is scum? Obviously, they could try and build a case themselves. Scum convince town someone is scum, town don't convince town. And that to me, is a scumslip.

[SpyreX]

Choo Choo'

\4.) Wait, when did I say you were scum for mirroring something I did? I voted you over Haylen because.. I don't know, actually. I'd be fine voting either of you.

In this setup, 2 days is all town gets. Slicey's scum role PM also says outnumber OR equal town.

Chances were slim that we were going to get a 3rd Day. Spy, as scum, may have realized that, but asked anyway to look better.

Also, with you, Korts, and Camn all being town, what other choices do I have? It's Spy and Haylen. It's gotta be.

Assume A and B are town. C and D are scum.
Now, look at the Mod's rules.
2 town can still lynch 2 scum.

So, actually, sans your "simple process of elimination" that is the ONLY reason you gave for me being scum: that I purposefully did that to look town with the new caveat that "Chances were slim that we were going to get a 3rd day anyway."

Which is extremely bizarre considering you followed and posted the exact same thought process. That is some painful cognitive dissonance.

As an aside:

Right, so I just spent ages writing a nice long post for you guys. Then I clicked the x on my mafia tab in firefox and the damn post has been lost. I'm not happy. I blame Spyrex. I shall explain why later.

Not happy.

If you ctrl-shift-T it should re-open the last window. My firefox for whatever reason will normally keep the text I have written too.

I'm gonna deal with Haylen's madness later. Lets just say thine case beith paper thin.