Newbie 853 (Endgame, Mafia win!!)

[LolIMadeAnAccount]

@LolI, voting for yourself brought your tally up to three. Surely this opened yourself up to a hammer by the wolves? Do you think it was prudent to do this? Why?

If your stupid enough to believe that two people will suddenly pile onto my wagon with no explantion given you should be lynched right now. If anyone did that right now, we'd know they are scum. Scum aren't stupid. At least I hope they aren't in this game. Otherwise it won't be any fun.

Fix'd for you!

[LolIMadeAnAccount]

Tyvm Siri. Your my new favorite mod.

[Concerned]

No I realize this . Was hoping for a different and therefore scummy response.

[LolIMadeAnAccount]

Mkay then. Ezek, if you don't understand how to play, maybe you should replace out and read up on the rules before you sign up for another game?

Fix'd!... Again!

[LolIMadeAnAccount]

Sorry...Keep forgetting to log off him. Have I mentioned how your my favorite mod, Sironigous?

[brothernature]

You guys sure are the lurkative bunch, aren't ya? Or am I just in a different time zone than y'all?

[brothernature]

Gawd effing dangit. Just screw it. Alts for ya.......Just leave it Siro. I'll finish the game as BN, if that's okay, Sironigous

As long as this account isn't in a newbie game, sure you can finish it as this. I'll announce it.

[Sironigous]

Due to extenuating circumstances, LolIMadeAnAccount has been replaced by brothernature. Please welcome him!

Also, Team Aether still hasn't picked up his prod. If he does not post/respond/pick it up by Wednesday, I will replace him.

[geekalicious]

Well im sorry new to this I had to friends get me into this, and to be honest i dont know anything.

Hey, that's alright. If you're confused about the game, then I recommend you go to the wiki. I'd recommend the newbie guide (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... wbie_Guide) and the guide on scum hunting (http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... ding_mafia). As you go through the game and come up on unfamiliar terminology, you can also check the wiki for that. Sometimes, I just like to go through random pages. Also, just go through and read old games. It's terribly helpful.

You guys sure are the lurkative bunch, aren't ya? Or am I just in a different time zone than y'all?

Hello brothernature, and welcome to the game. Yeah, I've noted the general lack of activity too. What's your perspective on what's happened in the game so far?

[Sironigous]

Note to all: Team Aether has requested replacement. I will be searching for a replacement for him.

[cruelty]

This game stagnated extremely quickly.

unvote
vote: geekalicious

[geekalicious]

This game stagnated extremely quickly.



unvote
vote: geekalicious

...why?

[brothernature]

Hello brothernature, and welcome to the game. Yeah, I've noted the general lack of activity too. What's your perspective on what's happened in the game so far?

You do know I'm still Loli. He was an alt, and I got tired of logging out and onto him just to post....Anywho, it's kinda hard to get a read on ANYONE if there not posting. Team Aether and Ezek havn't posted at all, Far_Cry's posted once, and he's the IC. Having the IC around is always helpful, unless everyone is just mindlessly following him/her. Also,

Unvote; Vote: geekalicious

. Yay for wagons.

[Concerned]

t;]Firstly my vote against vendel is obviously not serious, the very idea that I would have enough information after such a little bit of time to make a serious accusation is ridiculous. I was trying to pressure him for information and I think in doing so more information is now available to the town.

You say I'm grasping at straws when all I was doing was pointing out his bad logic, "grasping at straws" implies I was trying to build a serious case against him which is an incorrect assumption.

Don't really like this. I'm not sure what, exactly, I'll try to articulate my uneasiness regarding this post later, it's not clicking right now.

/UNVOTE VENDELWALKER

/VOTE CRUELTY

I'm still waiting to here from you as to why my post made you uneasy .


@Ezekiel, don't you agree that feigning ignorance could be a very crafty way of remaining free of suspicion?

@DTMaster, who do you think came out the most scummy in my little "duel" with Vendel and why?

OT: My timezone is +2 so I might be a little out of sync with our American players.

[cruelty]

This game stagnated extremely quickly.



unvote
vote: geekalicious

...why?

Trying to stimulate the game.


@Concerned: going out now, will answer you when I get home.

[geekalicious]

Your vote bothers me, cruelty, because you don't have any real reasoning, and we're definitely past the random voting phase. However, brothernature's/ lolimadeanaccount's bothers me more since it places me at L-2 for the sake of bandwagoning. brothernature, is there any reason for you voting against me?

[brothernature]

Reactions. I wanted to see if you'd freak out and overreact. Obviously, you didn't, and handled the situation as a townie most likely would.

[DTMaster]

@Town
Sorry D:! Lack of posting etc. etc. etc....

@Ezekial
Tip 1: Read the wiki.
Tip 2: Read completed games.

Now to get you more involved, who do you think is scummy and why?

@Lol/Brother
1. You just realize you asked the newbie to replace out of the newbie thread? That defeats the purpose of this being a newbie game and a teaching game. That's just plain rude to the player.

2. But you didn't unvote geek after his reaction. I would expect you to vote hop a little if you were using votes to test out reactions.

FoS:Brother

. I smell fake scum hunting here.

@Vendel
44: Elaborate here. What is so contradictory about those posts?

@Concerned
Few points about your little back and forth:

The townie should be playing to scum hunt, not to play as scummy townie looking for defense even if he is on the leading wagon. If a towns person decides to follow this path that you outlined he just self implicated himself as ultra scummy, making it an easy lynch against him.

I am well aware of this and this was precisely my point, vendel used the reasoning that townies would act in this manner when casting his vote. Clearly a flawed premise.

This just reeks of scumminess and putting words into Vendel's mouth. A quick Iso read on Vendel reveals:

ISO 1: RVS
ISO 2: Trying to reason my RVS vote as scum-DTM going for an easy bandwagon, which in itself is faulty reasoning.
ISO 3: Defends himself saying he was RVSing to generate discussion.
ISO 4: Discuss conversation starting.

Note

Vendel did not discuss how townies would vote, he talked about his own voting so far and how scum-DTM would try to blend in with the
RVS

ISO 5: Is an attack on you.
ISO 6: Is another attack on you.

This reads as fake case.

To me you come off as scummier with obvious misrepresentation of Vendel.

Unvote

Vote: Concerned

[brothernature]

1. You just realize you asked the newbie to replace out of the newbie thread? That defeats the purpose of this being a newbie game and a teaching game. That's just plain rude to the player.

2. But you didn't unvote geek after his reaction. I would expect you to vote hop a little if you were using votes to test out reactions. FoS:Brother. I smell fake scum hunting here.

1. Lol sorry. Totally spaced there. Forgot this was a newbie game.

2. He's the only one I could put at L-2. Only other person who had two votes was me, and one of those is my own. Not really anyone else I can prob for reactions at the moment. So vote hopping is out of the question. As for not unvoting, I really don't like unvoting unless I'm about to place my vote on someone else.

[cruelty]

t;]Firstly my vote against vendel is obviously not serious, the very idea that I would have enough information after such a little bit of time to make a serious accusation is ridiculous. I was trying to pressure him for information and I think in doing so more information is now available to the town.

You say I'm grasping at straws when all I was doing was pointing out his bad logic, "grasping at straws" implies I was trying to build a serious case against him which is an incorrect assumption.

Don't really like this. I'm not sure what, exactly, I'll try to articulate my uneasiness regarding this post later, it's not clicking right now.

/UNVOTE VENDELWALKER

/VOTE CRUELTY

I'm still waiting to here from you as to why my post made you uneasy .

Ok.

I think it just seemed like a big over-reaction, I think the way you phrased your response was very defensive, but (very) aggressively defensive.

That said, on a re-read I can see that maybe I was attributing to you things that weren't actually present, so I don't know how relevant this point really is.

Your vote bothers me, cruelty, because you don't have any real reasoning, and we're definitely past the random voting phase.

Yeah yeah, not really interested. The game stagnated, I threw out a random vote and we've had a few posts since, seems I achieved what I wanted to achieve. Thus,

unvote

.



@brothernature, my vote was to try to spark the game back to life (and thus far it's worked)... yours just seems opportunistic. I don't understand why a) you'd make the vote (I thought it was relatively clear that mine was just random; there's no need for two random votes) and b) why you wouldn't remove it. Leaving someone at L2 is just stupid, it's like you're endorsing a random bandwagon. Can't see town doing that.

vote: brothernature

- Don't like the second (unnecessary) random vote.
- Don't like the reasoning behind it.
- Don't like that it's still there.

[Sironigous]

A huge thank you to Lizzy Tsoi for replacing for Team Aether! Please welcome her!

[Lizzy Tsoi]

Cheers, all :) I'm just now recovering from a cold or flu, which has apparently slowed my thinking process to the speed of refrigerated honey. Yum. I'm trudging on, though, so let me know if I've grossly misinterpreted anything that has happened.

Apologies ahead of time for a bit of a wall of text. Consider it compensation for my predecessor's silence.

Geekalicious, you may want to consider changing your RVS question at the beginning of games. As Far_Cry brought up, this particular question feels a bit off. It could be an easy way for scum to gauge how likely people will keep alive lurkers who hurt town and whether or not a lurker kill would actually be profitable for scum.

Regarding the discussion between Vendelwalker, Concerned, and DTMaster:

Vendelwalker's initial vote for DTMaster (and his reasoning for doing so) does not strike me at all as scummy. In fact, he is making quite a town move here, given the early time of day and reason for the vote.

What strikes me as faintly suspicious is Concerned's vote for Vendelwalker ("VW" - hope that's okay). VW's logic was not faulty. While two votes may not be truly dangerous in the RVS, a person placing anyone a bit closer to the lynch is suspicious. Why not choose someone who hasn't a vote yet? Or who hasn't posted yet?

The rest of that discussion is extremely difficult to follow because claims are being supported/explained with incomplete or inappropriate reasoning. It all seems to just be fluff with nothing for people to really take away from it.

FoS: Concerned.

Quite a lot of your posts regarding Vendelwalker or in defense of said posts have used contradicting statements to try to explain away your actions or to discredit his arguments. But because your actions have not yet been distinct enough from newbie reasoning, I will not place a solid vote on you at this time.

FoS: brothernature.

I do not accept your reasoning for placing a vote on geekalicious as valid. Freaking out and overreacting is not a strong scumtell, and it is not obvious exactly how geekalicious's reaction was the way a townie's reaction would be. And it is also quite possible - if you will excuse the wild conjecture for the moment - that you are trying to early bus your scummate and clear him a bit in the eyes of others. While I do not find geekalicious suspicious at this time (and I therefore merely use the conjecture to spur my own analysis), your action in bandwagoning him is very odd and I find your reasons for the vote lacking.

[Vendelwalker]

This game stagnated extremely quickly.



unvote
vote: geekalicious

...why?

I think it is obvious, but I don't want to start side discussions. Let's just go on now.

[Vendelwalker]

Well, suspicions are flying here. It seems almost anything can be seen as scummy. But then you don't know if the person who says something really means it or not. Tricky! This looks like one of the few games where playing sober and playing drunk won't make any difference.


Actually I liked Concerned's explanation in post 49; I was thinking that his early suspicions against me looked like

clumsy

scum, but after the counter-suspicions against him for some time, I would have expected that 49 post to come out like "Hey, get off my back" or similar, if he was clumsy scum. But he sounds quite reasonable there. He could still be scum, I don't know, but I can't really say he would be based on that episode.

I was refraining from making a comment on that though, to see who would stick to accusing Concerned.

One thing I note is this:

DTMaster

, you were on my side there pretty solidly. A little too much, perhaps. And now in post 67 you put a Finger of Suspicion (why don't we write out these things to make it easier for those who haven't read every page in the wiki?) on Loli. Loli was an easy target there, for his general behavior. But his L-2 against geekalicious actually had no chance of succeeding, which he obviously must have known. And you knew that too.

And DTMaster is also suspecting Concerned still, even though I think Concerned defended himself pretty well. Is this because there is a chance I and others would join in a lynch? If Concerned then turned out to be a townie, I would be the obvious next lynch.


Now Lizzy Tsoi joins in suspecting Concerned - building up to a lynch. But again, I don't see a reason to do so at this point. Could it be a DTMaster-Lizzy scum pairing? Too early to tell, but....

I vote

DTMaster

. Funnily I don't have to change my vote, since it is still on DTmaster from the random-voting stage.

[Vendelwalker]

Edit: curse my quick fingers. Loli's vote against geekalicious wasn't L-2. The sentence should read:

"But his bandwagon against geekalicious actually had no chance of leading to a lynch, which he obviously must have known."

Now back to our regular broadcasting.