Newbie 1676 | Hungarian Nóták | Endgame

[Plotinus]

Official Vote Count 1.02 A faluban nincs több kislány

A faluban nincs több kislány csak kettő, csak kettő.
Az egyiket elszerette a jegyző, a jegyző.
A másik meg a kapuba' neveti, neveti,
Hogy őt meg a segédjegyző szereti, szereti.

Kiültek a vénasszonyok a padra, a padra.
Ugyis tudom rólam folyik a pletyka, a pletyka.
Nem kérem én a jó Istent csak arra, csak arra.
Valamennyit ragassza le a padra, a padra.

In the village there aren’t any more maidens, only two, only two.
The notary, the notary fell in love with one of them
The other laughs and laughs in the gate
because the assistant notary loves her, loves her

The old women sat out onto the bench, onto the bench.
I know anyway that the gossip, the gossip is flowing about me
I don’t ask good God anything except, anything except
To glue all of them down to the bench, to the bench.

lynching

With 9 alive, it takes 5 to lynch or no lynch.

Kim

(L-3): Belisarius, hiplop

Belisarius

(L-3): Bluebird,

hiplop

, MrCurlyNoodles

MrCurlyNoodles

(L-4): Witch_Hunter

Witch_Hunter

(L-4): Smudger

hiplop

(L-4):

Smudger

, Kim

Bluebird

(L-5): Belisarius

Freshmaniscoolman

(L-5): Witch_Hunter

Smudger

(L-4): Kim

Not voting

(2): Dizzy, Freshmaniscoolman,

MrCurlyNoodles

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(expired on 2016-01-20 14:00:00)

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[Belisarius]

I'm not voting Kim for white knighting, per se. I'm voting him for saying that he thought something might come from hiplop's vote on me, while trying to interfere with it by pooh-poohing it.

I'm also not happy about Kim pointing out "factually incorrect grounds", but that's mainly because I wanted to see how long it would take hiplop to realise it on his own.

[Belisarius]

Actually, on that very subject, do you really think hiplop's vote on me could come from scum? Do you really think scum, who has to be extra careful to avoid being caught in a lie, could have a) been absent-minded enough to cast a vote on an easily disprovable basis, and b) fail to notice it for so long?

Before you play the WIFOM card, that kind of shit is really hard to fake as scum, can backfire very easily, and the only potential gain for scum-hiplop would be for someone to draw the same reasoning I just did. It is not reasonable to assume that scum is prescient enough to have predicted this sort of reaction, except possibly with a player they know really, really well. Given that I've been away from Mafia since the summer, I doubt even my former scumbuddies and hydra partners could forecast my thought processes so accurately.

[Kim]

I'm not voting Kim for white knighting, per se. I'm voting him for saying that he thought something might come from hiplop's vote on me, while trying to interfere with it by pooh-poohing it.

I'm also not happy about Kim pointing out "factually incorrect grounds", but that's mainly because I wanted to see how long it would take hiplop to realise it on his own.

That was dumb of me and I apologize.

Spoiler: Explanation/excuse

My first mafia experience was reading old games (circa 2010) on a forum for a Q&A newspaper column. Those games were played by very smart, very logical people, because that's the kind of person who posted on that forum. (I mostly lurk there.) The impression that I got from reading the games was that since scum would have to lie, bad logic = scum. (This was before I found MafiaScum.)

Actually, on that very subject, do you really think hiplop's vote on me could come from scum? Do you really think scum, who has to be extra careful to avoid being caught in a lie, could have a) been absent-minded enough to cast a vote on an easily disprovable basis, and b) fail to notice it for so long?

I've seen scum vote early in the Day based on misreading other people's posts. He was corrected by the person that was voted for, so I don't know how long it would have taken him to find their error himself. (Also, that wasn't all of hiplop's case against you -- he also mentioned your answer to his RQS.) That's 1/7 of the scum I've personally played with, so I can't say that his vote against you makes him townier. (It's probably null, but I think the sloppiness is anti-town.)

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure. I'm still not sure how loose/tight I should be with my vote early in day stages -- I've gotten criticism for not voting in a couple of my earlier games. Chances are that hiplop isn't scum, but I could really say the same for literally everyone at this point.

[Witch_Hunter]

Um,

Freshman

and

Dizzy

, could you please start posting? The game's getting interesting at last, but without everyone on board it's not as good as it could be.

[Witch_Hunter]

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something. So I'm wary of posts like:

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure.

Allow me to explain. Either hiplop saw Belisarius' first vote or he didn't.
If he did, and he's scum, he's accusing Belisarius on terribly shaky grounds. Even I had noticed it was odd, and it's my freaking first game!
If he did, and he's town, he's still making a weak accusation, but with some purpose. Possibly to see if scum would get on that shitty bandwagon, then call them out later.

If he didn't, he's been skim reading. I can see a veteran town player being slightly careless on day 1, especially in a newbie game. I have a hard time seeing scum-hiplop doing the same, since it's a much greater risk for him.

So, either hiplop's town, and at most guilty of not noticing one post, or he's terrible scum.

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?
Scum-hiplop reason: uh oh, my case on Belisarius just went offrails. What if he suspects me? I know, I'll sheep his vote and cunningly move attention away from me. <evil laugh>

Again, either hiplop's town or stupid. And I'd rather bet our IC is not stupid.

[Kim]

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something.

I get your overall gist, but what do you mean by 60%? I'm assuming it's not that there's a 60% chance he's town and 40% chance he's scum.

If he didn't [see Belisarius' first vote], he's been skim reading. I can see a veteran town player being slightly careless on day 1, especially in a newbie game. I have a hard time seeing scum-hiplop doing the same, since it's a much greater risk for him.

The skim-reading scum I mentioned before was an SE with several thousand posts. It shouldn't happen, but it sure seems to. (I haven't read hiplop's posts to know his playstyle.)

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?

Something like this is probably what happened, but people need to be called out on changing their vote without comment. I think that not doing so makes the game too easy for scum.

[Plotinus]

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[hiplop]

ok .. I have to claim..... MY GF is Canadian...... I love her......


there are too many Canadians playing MS FFS....

We're taking over.

I'm aware Belsarius voted now, I just thought he'd do more except complain about RQS. FWIW (for what its worth), initially I did miss the vote, oops. I got all excited typing my IC-post, I forgot there was game before that. Once I noticed I tried to do what I could to get something going to spur activity. When he started to do more, I moved my vote~

Belisarius and hiplop, do you think Kim was trying to buddy?

Basically, yeah. I also liked Belisarius' reaction to me, and therefore had a small degree of trust.

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something. So I'm wary of posts like:

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure.

So, either hiplop's town, and at most guilty of not noticing one post, or he's terrible scum.

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?
Scum-hiplop reason: uh oh, my case on Belisarius just went offrails. What if he suspects me? I know, I'll sheep his vote and cunningly move attention away from me. <evil laugh>

Again, either hiplop's town or stupid. And I'd rather bet our IC is not stupid.

WitchHunter seems town, tbh. Kim's point is the best one raised thus far, and witch was able to think from my POV quite well; in a way that would in no way benefit scum. For the most part this post makes me think he is town (and quite flattering *bats eyelashes*), but that first line I have bolded is a liiiiiiiiiiiiiiittle strange. Town question eachother all the time, I don't think Kim's push on me seems particularly scummy.

Before you play the WIFOM card, that kind of shit is really hard to fake as scum, can backfire very easily, and the only potential gain for scum-hiplop would be for someone to draw the same reasoning I just did. It is not reasonable to assume that scum is prescient enough to have predicted this sort of reaction, except possibly with a player they know really, really well. Given that I've been away from Mafia since the summer, I doubt even my former scumbuddies and hydra partners could forecast my thought processes so accurately.

another defense would be that actions like that are especially regarded as scummy by new players. The biggest thing new players do wrong is they forget that doing something wrong doesn't necessarily mean scum motivation. Me being a goofball and not seeing a vote is

bad

but it more comes from the fact that I am a goofball than I'm trying to assassinate y'all.

(Sidenote, I've been wrestling with how to increase activity in the game, and figured doing a bombastic push would maybe help that. It sorta worked, woo!~) Now lets get these new-newbies in here so we actually have 9 players

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure. I'm still not sure how loose/tight I should be with my vote early in day stages -- I've gotten criticism for not voting in a couple of my earlier games. Chances are that hiplop isn't scum, but I could really say the same for literally everyone at this point.

Aye, that is a interesting problem that even I struggle with. I hold my vote early game to be pretty weak, poking and prodding at things in an attempt to see varying reactions. The trick is finding balance and it does take quite a long time to figure out! (I've been playing 7 years, and still am not ideal in that regard!)

Something like this is probably what happened, but people need to be called out on changing their vote without comment. I think that not doing so makes the game too easy for scum.

Here is where I will UNVOTE: . I'm satisfied with this response. You're absolutely right.

@ hiplop, Thanks, I'll also have to check the INTP thread out

I just went looking for it and noticed it was pretty hard to find, if anyone is still interested I found it quite interesting! Here it is

Really sort of an awkward spot as we're essentially missing 1/3 of the game right now (smudge, two replacements).

None, outside of a little bit in real life I'm a complete mafia noobie so any help or advice is welcome and probably needed. I'm also new to forum type sites for the most part so any advice on how to navigate/use this site would also be great. Thanks!

I recommend you look at those guides I posted on the first page! (Little bit boring, super helpful!) I know some people find it helpful to use the "view your posts" option in the top left portion of the page (I don't), as it helps them keep track of all their games in one nice little spot. I personally think Mafsepia is much cooler than Mafblack as a theme for the site, and you can change that by going User Control Panel -> Board Preferences -> My Board Style. In fact, there are lots of interesting options in there such as Site Chat (a chatroom) etc. This is an awesome site and you guys/gals should totally explore the neat features it has. For the snazzy quotes like the ones here, if you highlight a portion of a post and then press "quote" it will automatically quote just that section, which is pretty neat. If you have any other questions, ask~

However, I am going to VOTE: mrcurlynoodles as I'm interested in your thoughts on the circumstances in this particular game. What are you feeling, currently?

[MrCurlyNoodles]

However, I am going to VOTE: mrcurlynoodles as I'm interested in your thoughts on the circumstances in this particular game. What are you feeling, currently?

Thanks for the advice about the quote thing this is pretty cool. And I actually did read/partially skim the guide and abbreviation page you posted and they were super helpful! The abbreviation page is probably the only way I'm still following along

Sorry for not posting that much I've been kind of busy but mostly I just haven't really known what to say. I think the whole discussion between Kim and Witch_Hunter seems like two people looking a little too much into things/reacting very strongly to each other but Kim's defensiveness is a little sketchy, though not sketchy enough for me to think he's scum. Also (thanks to the guide you posted) I realize that if he is town he should probably be just as defensive and his logic, for the most part, seemed fairly sound. Witch_Hunter's logic also seemed fairly rational, though perhaps a tad overzealous, and I found myself more on his side in terms of whether or not what you've done so far has been scummy (which your most recent post also helped with). Honestly even in real life I find it hard to judge anyone so early in the game (which I guess is the point of this RVS) but thanks to the discussion so far I feel as if you, Witch_Hunter and Kim are the most towny, though not enough for me to think any of you are confirmed town.

Out of the people who are actually talking so far the person that feels the scummiest is Belisarius and that's still only like 2% scum. At first I voted him as a joke because he said he was always scum, even when he was town (I'm not sure how to quote more things after having already quoted something without quoting the whole post), but his disregard of you voting him (despite it being on faulty grounds) and his quick, mostly unexplained vote change to Kim seemed a little out of place to me. Kim's logic about unexplained vote changes needing to be called out makes sense to me and applies to Belisarius as much as it did to you. So my vote stays with him for now.

Sorry for this wall of text I'm sure once I start posting more/get used to this format and how to quote things my posts will either be shorter or snazzier. But those are my thoughts for now.

[Plotinus]

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!

[Kim]

Welcome, new people!

While I'm up (most of the time I can sleep through my phone vibrating when it gets this thread's subscription email, but not tonight, apparently)...

UNVOTE: hiplop for the reasons mentioned by Belisarius, Witch_Doctor, and him. Nobody else seems worthy of a vote at this hour.

[Kim]

EBWOP (edit by way of post): "deserves," not "seems worthy of."

[Some Random Mafia Player]

Alright, its 3:00 am. Will read tommorow.

[Smudger]

Who? MrCurlyNoodles? If you're suspicious of him, why are you voting Witch Hunter?

the Gif? its a joke linked to my Canadian jibe.....

to answer you second question. I get a feeling when I read the posts that happened before my vote from the slot that they are contrived, attempting to fit in. after all he is a self confessed noob,

If someone's serious voting on page 2, I want to know why.

who me or the other serious vote on page two?

Before you play the WIFOM card, that kind of shit is really hard to fake as scum, can backfire very easily,

can you give examples of how or where it has back fired?

We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions

who is "We"

That said, overall I like this post a lot better than the ones that piqued my interest and vote as explained above. Witch's later inputs are, and unashamedly sheeping Hiplop here, town in its feel. the fact he looked at both POVs, they make sens and then he qualified why he would think Hiplop town are sound on a first and second read through.

UNVOTE:

but his disregard of you voting him (despite it being on faulty grounds) and his quick, mostly unexplained vote change to Kim seemed a little out of place to me. Kim's logic about unexplained vote changes needing to be called out makes sense to me and applies to Belisarius as much as it did to you. So my vote stays with him for now.

have you questioned him on this? Belisarius is an experienced player, would you suspect him to have a reason for his actions? I often don't react to a vote that is placed on me, for varying reasons. if it is out of the blue then I consider it to see who else jumps onto the wagon, as it may well be a reaction test for other players. If it stays for a while and there is no explanation even after the voter continues posting in thread then of course I will speak up. As for a vote changing without explanation why does it make sense to you for it to be called out? I mean are there reasons someone might do this?

[Smudger]

EBWOP

they make sen

se

[Witch_Hunter]

Welcome,

Some Random Mafia Player

!

I get your overall gist, but what do you mean by 60%? I'm assuming it's not that there's a 60% chance he's town and 40% chance he's scum.

It's his score in my town-o-meter. It indicates how confident I am someone's town. Begins at neutral 50%, 0% is confirmed scum, 100% is confirmed town. 60% is a somewhat arbitrary number meaning "given it's still Day 1, he gives town vibes and I wouldn't lynch him today".

Town question eachother all the time, I don't think Kim's push on me seems particularly scummy.

It seemed odd to me: on the one hand, I agree with almost everything he says, taken in isolation. His posting style looks good: transparent, argumentative, active. On the other hand, his actions amounted to being suspicious of the player I was least suspicious about. Was him bad at reading people, was I, or was it something more? It's not much, hence my not even FoSing him, but it was worth checking.

Looks ok to me. Thank you for posting your ideas.
UNVOTE:
Now get to work and chase your leads.

who is "We"

Inclusive we = You (Kim) and I (WH).

[AzoriusSenate]

Hello everyone! Glad to be joining in. I'll start off with some of those get-to-know-you questions.
1) Have anyone of you played any off-site games? - Yes! I have an account on EpicMafia and I have played quite a few IRL games in my lifetime.
2)How about on-site games? If so; How Many? - I have recently just finished my first on-site game in which I was a VT.
3) How would you describe yourself as an individual? - Thoughtful, introverted, and mediator are what I would use to describe myself.
4) What do you think you will be remembered for this game? - Now this is an interesting question. Hopefully I'll be remembered as being on the winning side!
5) Why are you not scum? (:P) - I'm aligned with the town so there is zero chance of it. I think my further play will prove that in time.
6) Favourite pizza topping? - Just plain cheese.
7) Favourite Movie? - Back to the Future.
8) Favourite Song/band/music genre? - Orchestral and band.

I've also gotten caught up and here are my thoughts on some posts made thus far:

... What?

VOTE: Belisarius

Until you can prove what Shakspeare's shade has to do with any of this.
Also, I'm town.

This seems a little too defensive to be town. Slight SR on Bluebird.

Huh. So I guess being open with my thoughts can hurt. (More later after sleep and a little work.)

I would think that you would know that by now.

I do know that white knighting is frowned upon (and rightfully so), but it's such a natural impulse for me. I thought I was doing a good enough job of avoiding that, but I guess not. (This is assuming that that's why they voted for me; I could be wrong.)

@hiplop: You've gone from voting for Belisarius on factually incorrect grounds and encouraging others to do likewise to sheeping his vote. I'd love to hear an explanation for this, as this seems like the scummiest thing I've seen so far in this game.

UNVOTE: Smudger
VOTE: hiplop

(Seriousness level: 3/5. I would not have put you at L-1 at this time.)

In my opinion putting serious measurements on your vote is something that scum would do. Let me explain. So scum don't want to be noticed right? How can they reduce the impact of their votes? Maybe by putting a serious meter on their vote (3/5, the epitome of middle ground) so as to soften the impact of a vote?

Anyway these are my initial reads and I'm going to base my vote on that.

VOTE: Bluebird

[AzoriusSenate]

Spoiler: Off Topic

If anyone would like to ISO my previous game on the site, here is the link to it: http://forum.mafiascum.net/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=64392

[Some Random Mafia Player]

... What?

VOTE: Belisarius

Until you can prove what Shakspeare's shade has to do with any of this.
Also, I'm town.

I know this may have been a joke, but the fact you dident mention that until you realized it made you scummier is somewhat scummy in itself

... What?

VOTE: Belisarius

Until you can prove what Shakspeare's shade has to do with any of this.
Also, I'm town.

Pretty nervous reaction there, I like my vote even more now.

Also, I'm Captain Basch.

My humor isn't appreciated. That's not funny at all.

You voted me first; I don't see why I shouldn't vote you also.

My "What?" was supposed to be deadpan, but I can see why you can think that. Now you've got me reading myself in a funny voice.

Basch, Bach, Shakespeare... I don't get it. Is that a nickname? I think it's a nickname.

So you only voted him because he voted you? Do you see that as scummy and worthwhile of a lynch? Or is there something else scummy about him? Also too defensive to be town, like Azoriusenate said.

4) Logical posts that lead to a mislynch.

Isn't that

precisely

what scum would say? "Look, I may look really scummy, but I'm a townie. No, really!"
It could be just your personality, but it sounds suspicious.

5. I'm always scum, even when I'm town. That much hasn't changed

For the same reasons above, I don't like this much either.
Either way, no strong reads on Belisarius or Kim but for that, so I'm not changing my vote till everyone's participating and I have a more complete set of reads. Unless someone actually claims scum or something overtly suspicious.

@

Bluebird

: Captain Basch is a character from Final Fantasy XII who gets impersonated twice during the game.
Ontopic: Your vote on Belisarius, was it just OMGUS or something else?

@

Belisarius

: Do you actually scumread Bluebird, or is your vote still random?

@

Kim

: It's way early in the game, but any of those logical posts you could share?

The 2 quotes you posted was probably just joking around. I agree with the first 2 questions though. Town read

@

Bluebird

: Captain Basch is a character from Final Fantasy XII who gets impersonated twice during the game.
Ontopic: Your vote on Belisarius, was it just OMGUS or something else?

My vote on Belisarius is OMGUS. I'll vote someone else when I'm given a legitimate reason, but for now, I haven't seen much scumminess yet.

Somewhat off topic: @

hiplop

, Thanks, I'll also have to check the INTP thread out.

I am confused, if you haven't seen much scumminess yet, why are you placing your vote? There is nobody scummy you need to pressure according to you. Yes, there is RVS, but your explanation of OMGUS does not seem a complete joke.

@ Belisarius: Do you actually scumread Bluebird, or is your vote still random?

Random. I have one townread and no scumreads so far. That still helps. PoE is potent.

I'm not voting Kim for white knighting, per se. I'm voting him for saying that he thought something might come from hiplop's vote on me, while trying to interfere with it by pooh-poohing it.

I'm also not happy about Kim pointing out "factually incorrect grounds", but that's mainly because I wanted to see how long it would take hiplop to realise it on his own.

Why are you unhappy about someone pointing out that a lynch is factually incorrect? If we did not point out the flaws for somebodies lynch then scum could just randomly build a case on someone and nobody would object

VOTE: Kim We'll see where this goes

why do you think kim is scum? If you don't think they are scum, why are you pressuring them? It just contradicts to what you said earlier.

@

Kim

: We couldn't disagree more in our conclusions. Hiplop's my strongest townread so far. Sure, that's not very strong, more like 60%, but it's still something. So I'm wary of posts like:

I think that hiplop's actions are worthy of pressure.

Allow me to explain. Either hiplop saw Belisarius' first vote or he didn't.
If he did, and he's scum, he's accusing Belisarius on terribly shaky grounds. Even I had noticed it was odd, and it's my freaking first game!
If he did, and he's town, he's still making a weak accusation, but with some purpose. Possibly to see if scum would get on that shitty bandwagon, then call them out later.

If he didn't, he's been skim reading. I can see a veteran town player being slightly careless on day 1, especially in a newbie game. I have a hard time seeing scum-hiplop doing the same, since it's a much greater risk for him.

So, either hiplop's town, and at most guilty of not noticing one post, or he's terrible scum.

Later, the same process is at play. Belisarius changes his vote to you and hiplop does the same at once.
Town-hiplop reason: finally noticed Belisarius was actually taking part in RVS. Therefore, no more reason to suspect him for the moment. And he's also applying pressure on someone. Why not help him and get a read on this Kim guy?
Scum-hiplop reason: uh oh, my case on Belisarius just went offrails. What if he suspects me? I know, I'll sheep his vote and cunningly move attention away from me. <evil laugh>

Again, either hiplop's town or stupid. And I'd rather bet our IC is not stupid.

im not toally convinced the scum reason is impossible, and I see it as likely since he never actually explained reasoning for it, and then unlynched when called out for it. The paragraph about skim reading is WIFOM.

Welcome, new people!

While I'm up (most of the time I can sleep through my phone vibrating when it gets this thread's subscription email, but not tonight, apparently)...

UNVOTE: hiplop for the reasons mentioned by Belisarius, Witch_Doctor, and him. Nobody else seems worthy of a vote at this hour.

Sure, they might be right, but I would take note that this is Kim's first post since hiplop unvoted them. Maybe they unvoted because they only did it to try and somewhat pressure hilop into getting off them? There is reason to do this, as Hiplop is the easiest person to sheep due to it being assumed he knows exactly what hes doing.

Welcome to the game, MrCurlyNoodles!

Belisarius and hiplop, do you think Kim was trying to buddy?

Huh. So I guess being open with my thoughts can hurt. (More later after sleep and a little work.)

I would think that you would know that by now.

hmmmmmm

Who? MrCurlyNoodles? If you're suspicious of him, why are you voting Witch Hunter?

If someone's serious voting on page 2, I want to know why.

I have a problem with this post. For starters, how is being open with your thoughts a bad thing? Do you not want us to share our opinions on whos scum and let you do the work all by yourself? It also doesn't matter what page it is, if somebody finds you scummy, they find you scummy.

I dont like the Belisarius and bluebird interaction. I feel like bluebird intentionally acted that way so belisarius could jump on it. Especially since they have not interacted at all since then

Also think Azoriusenate is town, solid opening post, agree with everything said.

scumreads:
Bluebird (overly defensive in rvs mostly, but
Belisarius (if bluebird flips scum)
Kim (havent seen towny things, bu have seen scummy things from this slot. Not the most scummy, but is second behind bluebird)

neutral:
Mrcurlynoodles: (his post seems town, but he needs to be more active before I can for sure call him town)
hiplop: (doesent seem townie or scummy.)
Smudger: (inactive and mosty useless posts. But 64 looks towny

Townreads
witch: (I see nothing scummy and lots of town)
AzoriuSenate (He just came in, but that post looks town. I could see it coming from scum though)

For now, VOTE: Kim, while I think bluebird is scummier, I feel this is a more important lynch to discuss. Not saying you shouldn't discuss the bluebird lynch though.

[Belisarius]

can you give examples of how or where it has back fired?

No. I spoke of simple logic. Especially in a newbie game, where bad reasoning is more readily associated with dishonesty than simple human fallibility, using bad logic on purpose is a fool's game. While I'm less won't than Witch_Hunter to discount the possibility of a fool for on IC on a Shadeed's Law basis, Occam's Razor still points to an unintentional gaffe, and it still stands as unlikely in the extreme that even a Jesus-caliber scum player could have predicted that I or anyone would draw the conclusion that hiplop's vote on me was a township.

[Belisarius]

Belisarius (if bluebird flips scum)

Using associatives without a flip is a good way to create scum wins.

While a defensive response can be useful for ending RVS, RVS is now over, so it makes for a piss-poor case. If you're actually going to vote based on an associative, why should you care who flips first? From your stated PoV, my flip condemns or exonerates Bluebird just as neatly as his flip does for me.

[hiplop]

However, I am going to VOTE: mrcurlynoodles as I'm interested in your thoughts on the circumstances in this particular game. What are you feeling, currently?

Thanks for the advice about the quote thing this is pretty cool. And I actually did read/partially skim the guide and abbreviation page you posted and they were super helpful! The abbreviation page is probably the only way I'm still following along

Sorry for not posting that much I've been kind of busy but mostly I just haven't really known what to say. I think the whole discussion between Kim and Witch_Hunter seems like two people looking a little too much into things/reacting very strongly to each other but Kim's defensiveness is a little sketchy, though not sketchy enough for me to think he's scum. Also (thanks to the guide you posted) I realize that if he is town he should probably be just as defensive and his logic, for the most part, seemed fairly sound. Witch_Hunter's logic also seemed fairly rational, though perhaps a tad overzealous, and I found myself more on his side in terms of whether or not what you've done so far has been scummy (which your most recent post also helped with). Honestly even in real life I find it hard to judge anyone so early in the game (which I guess is the point of this RVS) but thanks to the discussion so far I feel as if you, Witch_Hunter and Kim are the most towny, though not enough for me to think any of you are confirmed town.

Out of the people who are actually talking so far the person that feels the scummiest is Belisarius and that's still only like 2% scum. At first I voted him as a joke because he said he was always scum, even when he was town (I'm not sure how to quote more things after having already quoted something without quoting the whole post), but his disregard of you voting him (despite it being on faulty grounds) and his quick, mostly unexplained vote change to Kim seemed a little out of place to me. Kim's logic about unexplained vote changes needing to be called out makes sense to me and applies to Belisarius as much as it did to you. So my vote stays with him for now.

Sorry for this wall of text I'm sure once I start posting more/get used to this format and how to quote things my posts will either be shorter or snazzier. But those are my thoughts for now.

This is a good, well thought out post. I still have some minor reservations on this slot overall, in particular the awkward read on Belisarius. I'm unsure if this is you trying to tip-toe on a potential partner or just extremely honest town player? Keeping my eye on you, but for now I will UNVOTE: because I don't think you're the top contender for scum.

No. I spoke of simple logic. Especially in a newbie game, where bad reasoning is more readily associated with dishonesty than simple human fallibility, using bad logic on purpose is a fool's game. While I'm less won't than Witch_Hunter to discount the possibility of a fool for on IC on a Shadeed's Law basis, Occam's Razor still points to an unintentional gaffe, and it still stands as unlikely in the extreme that even a Jesus-caliber scum player could have predicted that I or anyone would draw the conclusion that hiplop's vote on me was a township.

Hey now I'm a good guy! I promise no more goofy gaffes

why do you think kim is scum? If you don't think they are scum, why are you pressuring them? It just contradicts to what you said earlier.

I don't think this is true. Right now, the town is a uninformed majority desperately trying to scratch away the mist and understand the world around them. IMO the best way to do that is to vote various places to garner a reaction. I liked Kim's reaction, and thus moved on to what was at the time a better candidate. This is also no longer the case. Noodles provided a good analysis of his situation and current reads on the game.

For now, VOTE: Kim, while I think bluebird is scummier, I feel this is a more important lynch to discuss. Not saying you shouldn't discuss the bluebird lynch though.

I like you. I buy your reasoning for bluebird, I really do. This vote is NOT good. In fact, VOTE: some random mafia player. This to me reads as a bus (read: throwing his partner under the bus). A new wagon of sorts forms on bluebird, you agree, go on with the momentum...and vote someone completely different? That does NOT read natural to me in the slightest. This seems like you're scared to join the blooming bluebird wagon too early in case it has ramifications on the rest of your game. This sort of mindset is commonly indicative of scum.

[hiplop]

Reads right now for those viewers at home
Town
Witch
Kim
Noodles
AzoriiiousSenate

Null
Smudge
Belisarius
(Cmon SE's, get more active )

Scum
Bluebird
Some Random Mafia Player - Seriously, this is not a town mindset

[hiplop]

Clarification on me: I do my reads categorically but also ranked in each category. Witch being top town read, Smudge being townier than belisarius etc etc