Cheese Thief | Game 1 Over

[camelCasedSnivy]

de did you lie?

[DragonEater70]

About?

[DragonEater70]

btw @Skygazer I love your ever changing signature since you became Replacement Listmod.

[camelCasedSnivy]

About?

the 1am time

[Skygazer]

btw @Skygazer I love your ever changing signature since you became Replacement Listmod.

updated it again just for you

[Silverclaw]

I have a question, because I want to make sure I'm understanding the rules right. Does the Cheese Thief need to place the cheese in front of them? When I read the rules I saw "somewhere safe" and assumed they could put it anywhere

[DragonEater70]

btw @Skygazer I love your ever changing signature since you became Replacement Listmod.

updated it again just for you

Wow. Appreciated!

[Mizzytastic]

I have a question, because I want to make sure I'm understanding the rules right. Does the Cheese Thief need to place the cheese in front of them? When I read the rules I saw "somewhere safe" and assumed they could put it anywhere

In person the Cheese Thief would do something like put the Cheese in their pocket.

[DragonEater70]

the 1am time

Read my claim again.

[camelCasedSnivy]

sorry i dont see where you claim it in your case

[camelCasedSnivy]

i am staring as hard as i can just tell me

[camelCasedSnivy]

the 1am time

Read my claim again.

just tell me what time you woke up at its not that hard

[DragonEater70]

i am staring as hard as i can just tell me

the 1am time

Read my claim again.

just tell me what time you woke up at its not that hard

Just read this post it's not that hard:

I woke up at 3 AM

Skygazer

can go next

[NDMath]

Math 2 quick questions:
1. Why did you call me a follower before massclaim?
2. Do you realize there's a follower so I don't have to be a cheese thief, since both of the other pairs according to your POV could be thief + follower?

pedit: I will snivy, dw

and yeah, SG (sorry if you hate this) ain't confirmed

It looked like you were using a peak on me with malicious intent & cheese thief doesn't get a peak. (mechanically you want people you know the times of to claim later, so you acting like you had a peak on me and then asking me to claim first set off alarms there).
Additionally, because I woke up at 2 so I knew cheese thief woke up at 1 so your framing on the situation was frightening in that with #18 it felt like you were preemptively setting up your arguments

Regarding point 2, I thought you were claiming that you peaked me at 1am, since that's sure what it sounded like you were implying, and assumed that meant mallow/ccs were time paired leaving you as both lying & the only player without a time vouch.

This is my "Full Thoughts" post. I will include the entire case I made on Math in the spoiler below, then I can delve into what I currently think.

Spoiler: case I was alluding to in post #38

I think Math is the Cheese Thief.
It's a bit hard to precisely articulate my thought process, because this is a bit based on gut and a bit based on logic of the type that makes better sense in my head than when I say it (even though it ends up reaching the correct conclusion), but I'll try anyway.
So, I saw this post and it felt off to me:

I don't think lying about wake up time is as likely as you think it is, since if cheese thief or follower lie about their wake up time & somebody checked their die that just forces them into an unneccesary 1v1. However I do think the strategy is a good idea.

Why is this off? Well, maybe I'm reading too much into it, but it's not like we're gonna have flips this game so I kinda have to. And looking at this post, I feel this is a TMI/Anti-TMI/Not-Trying-To-Solve Slip. Let me explain what this means.
Basically, in this game, unlike in Mafia, the Sleepyheads all have a piece of information (or actually 2), that would make it pretty obvious to them why the Cheese Thief should fake claim time (as otherwise, it would be extremely easy to spot the Cheese Thief). This information is (a) what time you woke up, and (b) what was the state of the cheese. and with this information, if everyone trueclaims time, it is possible to more or less pinpoint cheese thief.*
But there are two roles in the game which wouldn't realize what this information means, or that it is actually usable information: someone who woke up at 1 AM by themself, and a Cheese Thief (hope it's clear why).
And Math's mindset points to being either, with the claim ruling out waking up at 1 AM by themself (they could only wake up at 1 AM with Mallow, or wake up at 2 AM). So it sounds like he's just a thief.


*Hypothetically, let's say that only the cheese thief woke at 1 AM, and 1 player woke at 2 AM - it immediately becomes a 1v1 after claim, which is not good for cheese thief. So it shouldn't trueclaim normally.
However while writing this I realized that this 1v1 is not a guaranteed win for the Sleepyheads, since as Snivy pointed out the follower could probably break ties.

First, Snivy is very observant as he correctly deduced that he and I woke up at the same time! Just kidding (or am i?). But yeah, I did wake up with somebody else (Mallow, as I don't see a point hiding it now).

Furthermore, I kinda TR Skygazer's thinking that they are confirmed town despite not being confirmed. I will say though that they aren't even confirmed not Cheese Thief, because they can be the Thief with Silverclaw as the Follower. But since I TR both of them (independently of each other), I think it's an unlikely scenario (but not impossible).

So that leaves Mallow, Snivy, and Math.
Mallow is, by claim which no one CC'd yet, clear of being Cheese Thief. They could still be a follower.

Could Snivy be Math's follower? Maybe - I didn't actually think of this possibility. It's an interesting one.
Could Math be Snivy's follower? Probably not. I find it highly unlikely that the follower just popcorns the CT and forces them to fakeclaim early when they might get CC'd.
Could Mallow be Math's follower? Yes, and that's my current solve. Mallow's posting feels like follower posting, and Math's posting feels like CT posting. If I'm right, I expect Mallow to start shading me after this post and to (falsely) claim that Math is confirmed not CT to them.
Okay so what about Snivy as Math's follower again? Ugh, I guess it's possible. I don't really have a good argument for or against it. If you guys have an argument either way, I will be happy to hear it.

Edit: I guess the last 2 posts by Mallow and Snivy actually confused me a bit on which one of them could be the follower.
Oh, I forgot Mallow could be Snivy's follower. Hmmmmmmm, I'll get back to you about that.

What your spoilered explanation is missing is just because cheese thief doesn't lie about their time, doesn't mean we'd know that they didn't lie about their time.
Specifically since if Cheese Thief wakes up with one other person, the cheese thief is very likely to make that person to follower, at which point cheese thief could run off to some random time & leave the follower to take the 1v1, and so seeing that we wouldn't know for sure if cheese thief was left in the 1v1, just that it's more likely than not.

Also, I peaked at Silverclaw and saw the 6 so I know he can't be cheese thief, and it seems unlikely for skygazer to be cheese thief either since he claimed before silverclaw.

From my pov it is likely either mallow/dragoneater (with mallow much more likely to be the cheese thief), or ccs as cheese thief with anyone as follower.
Slim chance of skygazer with silverclaw follower, but that chance seems so slim that I'm willing to dismiss it.

[camelCasedSnivy]

but you couldve been lying since you said claim a different time than those you woke with

[camelCasedSnivy]

whatever i woke alone and tracked mallow to 3 am im done

[DragonEater70]

whatever i woke alone and tracked mallow to 3 am im done

huh

Why did you wait for me to claim before saying that?

But anyway from your POV Math is confirmed Cheese Thief unless SilverSky is actually best scum team that ever scummed in the Mish Mash forums.

[DragonEater70]

Also do you like my new avatar?

[camelCasedSnivy]

so assuming me nor ndmath arent followers (which is less likely since thief should choose those they wake up with) it should be safe to claim if we saw cheese or not

[NDMath]

whatever i woke alone and tracked mallow to 3 am im done

this is news
I think that just makes you thief from my perspective

[camelCasedSnivy]

whatever i woke alone and tracked mallow to 3 am im done

huh

Why did you wait for me to claim before saying that?

But anyway from your POV Math is confirmed Cheese Thief unless SilverSky is actually best scum team that ever scummed in the Mish Mash forums.

ill read in full later

i wanted to see if you would lie but with the asking i did you probably couldve seen that so idk

[DragonEater70]

(mechanically you want people you know the times of to claim later, so you acting like you had a peak on me and then asking me to claim first set off alarms there).

I admit that I fucked up there, I actually realized I should've asked you to claim last but it was too late.

[camelCasedSnivy]

whatever i woke alone and tracked mallow to 3 am im done

this is news
I think that just makes you thief from my perspective

how so

[DragonEater70]

I admit that I fucked up there, I actually realized I should've asked you to claim last but it was too late.

@Math basically this is my first time playing this and I am more or less figuring out the strategy as I go along. So yeah you are 100% correct that people you know when they woke up should claim later, that's also part of my suspicion of Mallo popcorning me.

[camelCasedSnivy]

also thats why i poocorned mallow