TM2021 | Anime Destroys Untrod Tripod | Endgame

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

[Nancy Drew 39]

i just dont care about PR's like that, so i dont really grasp the entire thing

If Norwee is goon and Shea’s a PR, his wanting to be elimed before Shea makes sense. Obviously your hesitation is based on you doubting Ram but if Ram is Norwee’s partner then why is he trying to save Pine when Norwee was trying to kill him?

I really don’t see a Norwee/Ram team here. I still think he’s town but if not, he makes far more sense with Pine or you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

norwegian does not want to be faded, if they're scum that's just trying to make you double think

Just look at him, he is not using his head because he doesn't feel he has to. He has "caught scum" in his mind.
That's why it's so important to shatter it because FL will screw us if he isn't proved wrong on me here.

[Pine]

seems like a pretty basic scum play

I don’t agree - Why not simply take the win of a Pine/Norwee dichotomy? (@Mistyx I’m at a family event and can’t drag out the full case, but pushing the current gamestate is the core premise of my case on Shea)

Why Shea > Norwee? You think Norwee’s a goon and Shea is a scum PR?

Norwegian has hard protected Shea and hasn’t ever given a good reason for it. I don’t agree that he has to be a Goon, but my team and I think Shea’s role is important. For example, a Roleblocker or Ascetic would be able to disrupt the Follow-the-Jailkeeper plan to solve the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont understand anti Ramcius-Norwegian?

for me it's either

Ramcius-Norwegian
Status-Norwegian
Pine-Ramcius

so it feels to me like status push is indicative of Ramcius scum

It’s not Ram/Norwee for the same reason it isn’t Ram/Shea. In addition to independently Townie things he’s down, Ram doesn’t pass up the easy Pine/Norwee dichotomy to hard defend me and push Shea. He takes the W.

You getting faded as town is not a victory for scum. It was earlier in the day, but like, now it just outs Norwegian as scum if you flip town.

Ramcius did the same thing with Norwegian on Day 2 when he was pushing, but then he made a momentum changing vote on TGP.

Now he flipped on me, and pushing for a compromise wagon.

Yeah, I don't agree with the anti Norwegian-Ramcius at all, if anything that makes me scum read them more

[NorwegianboyEE]

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

Precisely. TSQ is not the optimal lim because it only disproves or proves a single team, that is me/TSQ. Me or Pine flipping would prove a lot more about what is going on. And that is precisely why Pine didn't want the flip on me over TSQ, because he is not wanting town to solve the game.

[Flavor Leaf]

If you wanna talk about Status being scum and that being the reason to fade them, sure, that's a much better argument than "Status is the best mechanical fade" because I hard hard hard disagree with that

[NorwegianboyEE]

Pine is now going the route of saying TSQ is PR and that's why i'm protecting him, but how the fuck does that make sense? So i will make myself flip goon, and somehow that will convince people TSQ isn't my scum teammate? Seriously, this isn't logical play from me whatsoever if i'm scum with TSQ here.

[Flavor Leaf]

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

Precisely. TSQ is not the optimal lim because it only disproves or proves a single team, that is me/TSQ. Me or Pine flipping would prove a lot more about what is going on. And that is precisely why Pine didn't want the flip on me over TSQ, because he is not wanting town to solve the game.

This is it exactly

[NorwegianboyEE]

At least FL's argument of me doing it for WIFOM makes actual sense from scum!me.

[Nancy Drew 39]

I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

That is true. While I think Ram is town, I don’t understand the case on Shea? @Pine

[Flavor Leaf]

Now whether Norwegian knows that because he is scum is the true question.

[Flavor Leaf]

I feel like Ramcius and Pine kinda just left me in the dust when the fade wasn't happening, and im gaining increased paranoia there now

if status flips town, Pine/Ramcius can fake guilty, Norwegian/Ramcius get to have Norwegian vs Pine tomorrow with a little FL/Ram on the side

so when people are saying status is the optimal fade, i just dont agree with that at all.

they could be scum, but a status town flip is essentially a worst case scenario all around.

Status' only partner here can be Norwegian, but Norwegian has Ramcius as well, so i dont understand the logic

That is true. While I think Ram is town, I don’t understand the case on Shea? @Pine

i need you to know, that just because you think Ram is town doesn't mean he can't be scum here.

I think you could be right, for what it's worth, but his play the second half of day 2 and day 3 has been scummy. His play at the beginning of those days have been townie.

[NorwegianboyEE]

Come on Pine, vote me.
What are you afraid of?

[NorwegianboyEE]

Do you think me flipping goon would save TSQ if he is scum PR?

[Flavor Leaf]

i dont want any JK WIFOM in this game tomorrow, Ramcius/Status fades allow for hard JK WIFOM possibility, and that is why I can absolutely not see reasoning for either of them being the optimal fade here

[Pine]

Norwee/Pine
Norwee/TSQ
Pine/TSQ
Pine/Ram
TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

I have it narrowed down to these

I’m thinking of cutting out Norwee/Pine here

@akarin
@nancy
Can I get your takes on this when you can

Norwee/Pine

Norwee/TSQ

Pine/TSQ

Pine/Ram

TSQ/FL
FL/Ram

This has always been a good list, and we’ve explored why we can strike half the pairs.

If for no other reason than this, elimming Shea here is the right move. A Shea Townflip effectively hard-clears Norwee, as stunning as that sounds, and demands we look elsewhere.

We elim Shea, because then the Jailkeep solve the game for us. Full stop.

[Pine]

Come on Pine, vote me.
What are you afraid of?

This is not, and never has been about you.

[NorwegianboyEE]

I dare you, i double dare you Pine. Vote me, have me flip goon. And then eliminate TSQ scum PR tommorow.

[Flavor Leaf]

I do see it, though, Pine and Ramcius if scum have set me up completely to be faded tomorrow if they are scum

Like I am most likely on the chopping block tomorrow no matter what

[NorwegianboyEE]

Come on Pine, vote me.
What are you afraid of?

This is not, and never has been about you.

What is this? You say TSQ is my teammate so why won't you eliminate me?

[Pine]

Come on Pine, vote me.
What are you afraid of?

This is not, and never has been about you.

What is this? You say TSQ is my teammate so why won't you eliminate me?

I said he’s the only one who makes sense for you. On a Shea Townflip, you’re essentially an IC.

[Flavor Leaf]

I disagree that he is an IC on a status town flip.

[Pine]

I do see it, though, Pine and Ramcius if scum have set me up completely to be faded tomorrow if they are scum

Like I am most likely on the chopping block tomorrow no matter what

Uh, no. Not no matter what.

Especially not from your perspective.

Why are you pushing Pine/Ramcius when you still swear it’s Norwegian?

[Pine]

I do see it, though, Pine and Ramcius if scum have set me up completely to be faded tomorrow if they are scum

Like I am most likely on the chopping block tomorrow no matter what

Uh, no. Not no matter what.

Especially not from your perspective.

Why are you pushing Pine/Ramcius when you still swear it’s Norwegian?

Like, hold up. Full stop.

This does not make sense from your perspective.

UNVOTE:

Explain. Now.