Secret Society Mafia - Game Over

[zMuffinMan]

VOTE: alabaska

[Maxous]

I gotta give this game a quick re-read later. (unfortunately I got busy during the night period)
For the meantime though

VOTE: David X

[PeregrineV]

I gotta give this game a quick re-read later. (unfortunately I got busy during the night period)
For the meantime though

VOTE: David X

I'll bet this is because DavidX didn't want to place a vote yesterday at all, but when he did, he said he would be willing to hammer, but when he voted someone other than himself for the first time it lynched the guy with 12 votes instead of 13, isn't it?

Vote: DavidX

[Wraith]

Back in this game, bitches. Here are my steam-of-reading notes:

End of Page 5

-I can see the logic of the IceGuy wagon early on. Policy lynching is not that great in general
-Attacks against TheJakalope early on were rather meh and kind of smells like a chainsaw revving to me
-I think I later made it clear that Baby Spice's first post was ew, especially since it wasn't really a randomvote
-Elaborating on BS: she elaborates that ML was spamming and denying that he was spamming; however spamming is really not that bad, especially early game. It's fluff you want to watch out for.
-I don't know why Muffin suggests a cult in a non-bastard game. Cults are a bastard mechanic and besides I'm pretty sure the Secret Societies are neighborhoods
-Don't really understand ML's sudden switch over to StefanB
-I do agree with Alabaska that scum do not get into early squabbles. It's bad for business in that it draws early attention down on you.
-Self-voting in RVS is a null-tell and should not contribute to someone's scumreads
-I still don't understand why BS is pushing the spamming case on Ludi

FoS: Baby Spice

End of Page 10

-Yos had it spot on in the first post of page 6. To me BS comes off in her pushing Ludiwagon as somewhat fluffy - trying to push a wagon for BS reasons and appearing to scumhunt (c wut i did thar)
-Seeing Post 128 by BBmolla made me feel uneasy so I checked his ISO; lo and behold his 8-10 posts are almost all one-liners. Really smells like fluff/active lurking to me.
-In fact, I'm going to elaborate a little why I really don't like BBmolla at this point:

VOTE: Muffin

For being in like every game with me.

RVS. Okay...

Muffin are you scum?

Out of the blue and pretty stupid. It also appears to follow on to a RANDOMVOTE. A number of people, like Ludi, Dry-Fit, and Maxous, question the point of such a question. BBmolla's next post is:

Still waiting for Muffin's response.

Why? What could you have possibly gotten out of that question? "Yes"? Not long after:

Well you're in a bit of a dilemma if you can't participate until I answer you, because that just makes me not want to answer whatever question you asked.

Then don't.

My whole point in asking was to see your reaction, however, I also managed to get a lot of responses from others as well which I find to be interesting.

What the hell sort of question is that?

I don't get the point of this

BBmolla needs to step it up or he's gonna feel my wrath.

I don't like either Dry or Ludi's responses to a question that wasn't even directed towards them. Maxous was simply looking for intention, while Dry/Magister's response was simply to bring attention to it and act as if me asking that was the most absurd and unreasonable thing ever said, which I find odd. Why were your responses so aggressive?

He attacks Ludi, Maxous, and Dry-Fit for questioning the point of a stupid question. Reeks to me of trying to seem like he's scumhunting. Back to your normal programming:

-BS reappears to address Yos's accusations. Something I want to know: Why is spamming bad? What constitutes "spamming"? Why not "fluff-posting"?
-The back-and-forth between BS and Yos continues. I disagree with BS: "spamming" does not hide things. Abundance of posting either gives more information or it is completely useless. Not in-between.
-I haven't liked the back-and-forth between MoI and Ludi. Reading at this point I believe both were/are town and MoI's flip confirms the former.
-Peregrine's Post 162 rubs me the wrong way. It's like he was out of the loop and suddenly reappeared to buddy MoI, voting DX basically because "he self-voted also MoI thinks he's scum" when MoI had pretty let that ship sail and gone after ML. Smells like fluff/buddying to me.
-I can however understand Peregrine's skepticism on the BS-wagon, considering how fast it did gain steam. Nevertheless I feel he's only selectively quoting part of the Yos's case he wants to address, not all of it. He missed the main point in the midst of the ad hominem.
-Post 181 by sorgster is very bad. Considering how his earlier 3 posts had been just as long and descriptive makes me think he's trying to pull the same thing as Peregrine: slipping onto the bandwagon behind a strong, obvtown player. He also go on the same line as Baby Spice, saying that ML's posts are "fluffy" when in fact they have been much more proactive than his own.
-Elaborating, the short exchange between ML and sorgster definitely puts me more on ML's side. I think he had it spot on.
-Bogre's first post is hideous as well, even though it's on a wagon I agree with.
-Apparently GW claimed Miller in Post 200. Considering pressure had started to come down on him in the previous page I really, really question this claim.

Why didn't you claim immediately if this were true?

Okay I need to catch up.

FoS BBmolla

for reasons above,

FoS: PeregrineV

for gut reasons,

FoS: sorgster

for bad wagoning.

FoS: Bogre

for even worse wagoning.

FoS GW

for a very clumsy, late Miller claim.

-GW should have claimed Miller immediately, but at least it wasn't after a cop guilty.
-I do like GW's catch-up post in 232.
-At this point in my reading I can't understand why IceGuy got lynched. Sure he's lurking and meh but there were better options.
-I have a problem with BS's return in 242. She says that Ludi misrepped her by defining spamming "differently" from her. Yet I fail to see the difference between:

Multiple one liner posts and outright fluff posts

assuming you mean "spamming" to be posting without content

Here's my definition of "fluff": Posting in such a way to appear to be contributing content while not actually contributing content at all. Alternatively, appearing to be active while not actually contributing.

-Up to this point I was pretty much ignoring Otolia but by 245 I'm really starting to sympathize with MoI. Up to page 5 or so I was also kind of meh about this game with nothing happening but by this point (page 10) there is plenty to talk about. You're just not making the effort.
-248 is really, really bad. I think Otolia is town (IMO scum would not admit to being useless and lurky) but you are not acting like a townie should. I also think Otolia is not a PR.

Anyways I'm going to break here and continue soon.

[ToastyToast]

yo I'm about ten pages in. idk if I'll be caught up today (like. A LOT of college stuff to take care of)

[Wraith]

End of Page 15

-I am not a fan of sageamagoo's opening post. MoI especially was obvtown at this point. Even though her view of BS is understandable if it had been that alone I wouldn't have a problem. But she is actually taking BS's side.
-At this point I feel there are three major factions pushing lynches: BS, ML/Yos, and MoI. ML/Yos and BS are pushing wagons on each other and MoI has become distracted by Otolia's lurking/bad play.
-sorgster's vote on Otolia is horrible. He jumps from the Ludiwagon to the Otoliawagon effortlessly and without more reason than "MoI calls for more votes"
-Ghostlin is little better but he actually outlines his dislike for Otolia acting anti-town.
-This rapidly-forming Otolia wagon does not feel right to me.
-I am baffled by Muffin's IceGuy vote in 275. It comes out of nowhere and noone appears to call him on it
-IceGuy actually has a pretty good point about StefanB. If we look at the Magister Ludi and Otolia similarly I think we'll find similar correlation between certain players.
-I disagree with GW's 288. As opposed to other lurky players (BBMOLLA COMES TO MIND) IceGuy is actually making some good points in his limited posting.
-At this point even I can see that the IceGuy wagon was BLATANTLY scum-driven.

Why did Muffin vote IceGuy out of the blue? Why did no one call him on it?

While GW's attack on IceGuy was the catalyst for the wagon I am feeling very uneasy about Muffin's earlier, unjustified vote.
-

FoS: TheJakalope

for this post, specifically:

Muffin has had plenty of explanation, and it was quite enough for me.

This is wrong on so many levels. I personally did a quick re-skim of Muffin's ISO up to the point of his vote on IceGuy. Muffin originally called IceGuy scum early on, presumably for his rather bad vote in RVS. Nevertheless, Muffin FAILS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE BELIEVES THIS. Furthermore he continues to call IceGuy scum in subsequent posts but continually FAILS TO EXPLAIN WHY HE HOLDS SUCH VIEWS.

FoS: Muffin

as well.

-Lo and behold StefanB jumps from the Otolia wagon to the IceGuy wagon. I wonder, did IceGuy have a point?
-At this point this town is full of sheep. Sorgster, StefanB, TheJakalope, Ghostlin, EtherealCookie. I could go on if I took more time to re-read every single votecount. Some, as said, are townsheep, others are opportunistic scum.
-sageamagoo quotes a MASSIVE WoT to say three lines of text in response. Then jumps onto the IceGuy wagon, who wasn't the subject of the massive WoT she quoted.
-

BBMOLLA APPEARS AFTER ABOUT 9 PAGES OF LURKING TO VOTE FOR ICEGUY

His justification? "This is wagon I can get behind. Also I need to reread the topic." DING DING DING WEEYOO WEEYOO
-Dry-Fit appears to be behind the times and joins the Otolia wagon 3 pages too late.
-I might agree that Stefan's votes alone look very bad compared to his ISO but it baffles me that Yos doesn't see the IceGuy wagon as terrible. I thought he had more sense.
-At this point, MoI, ML, and DY are obvtown. Yos is leaning town.
-Holy crap IceGuy saw the same thing as me in regards to BBMolla. WHY DID WE LYNCH THIS GUY AGAIN?
-ROFL at TheJakalope's 361. Both flipped town, neither were scum. HOWEVER, something does not feel right about that to me. I have a gut feeling that says scum are trying to frame TheJakalope, despite his scummy-as-shit ISO.

Vote: BBmolla

This is quite obviously the best lynch for me at this point. I haven't even reached the end of D1 and I'm starting to get a clearer picture of the situation. Taking another break, this is actually quite tiring.

[Global Warming]

Vote: Jackalope

This will be the lynch for today. He is just making blunt statements that sometimes do not even make sense.

[Wraith]

Vote: Jackalope

This will be the lynch for today. He is just making blunt statements that sometimes do not even make sense.

I disagree. My gut still tells me that he is being framed. Besides there are better lynches at this point. Like BBmolla.

[BBmolla]

@Wraith: I voted IceGuy based off of scummy play near that time. I read enough of him to find him scummy(and I ISO'd him to make sure), but I hadn't gotten a chance to truly read the whole thread and get a grasp of everyone.

@Muffin: Could you make a case on alabaska? I'm not seeing it.

In my initial reread, I found David X scummy. But I think it may just be because of his family issues limiting the commitment he could put into this game, making it look scummy.

VOTE: Dry-Fit

Something about this guy bugs me, I can't put my finger on it. Want to put him more in the spotlight.

[Ghostlin]

I am claiming the EC kill. I had a one shot Vig kill and I used it last night thinking that EC would never see the noose.

DX, do you have a doublevote, and if so,

why the hell are you lurking?

I'm not talking the end of Day 1, but the beginning of Day 1 before you went on V/LA. You had muitiple opportunites to vote and you didn't.

Jak seems likely scum, particularly with his EC/IG in #361. Knowing what we know now, the associative tells with no reasoning was to set up lynches primarly.

Vote: Jak

All three of BBmolla, Jak and DX are pinging my scumdar. They're all excellent choices.

[BBmolla]

Also, I agree with the Jak being framed theory, he just seems way too blatant.

[Wraith]

Ghostlin, if you vigged EC then why wasn't there a second scumkill?

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin, if you vigged EC then why wasn't there a second scumkill?

That I don't know. My best guess would be that someone --was-- protected last night by MoI. I'm claiming EC, tho', and I don't see (yes, WIFOM, I know) the possible scum motivation of someone scummy killing him, even if that gets me lynched.

[whispersilk]

Ghostlin's vig claim appears legit after reading his ISO. So this means that one of the scum factions didn't get a kill in last night, maybe because one of their targets was being protected by MoI? I took a look through his ISO, and apart from listing his scummy reads a few times, he didn't really give any clear town reads; just made a couple of comments on a few players giving him townie vibes, like BS. If I had to guess, I'd say he protected her or muffin last night.

He attacks Ludi, Maxous, and Dry-Fit for questioning the point of a stupid question. Reeks to me of trying to seem like he's scumhunting.

Scum don't need to fake scumhunting when there are two scum factions in the setup. I have more thoughts on BB, and I'll try to find more time tomorrow to post them, but I'm going to have very limited internet access over the next 24 hrs.

PEdit:

(yes, WIFOM, I know) the possible scum motivation of someone scummy killing him, even if that gets me lynched.

True, but I thought you crumbed your claim pretty well.

[Maxous]

umm,
there is a scum motovation to kill somebody scummy in a 2 scum faction game.

[Otolia]

Ghostlin, if you vigged EC then why wasn't there a second scumkill?

Protective roles, Roleblocking roles.

I am suspicious of Jackalope, he seems very elusive and a little bit too compliant. What are the arguments in the favor of a frame for your point of view, Wraith ?

Also, major town credit for Wraith at this point. His re-read seems complete and well thought out. It makes sense throughout. It will take something huge to push a wagon on him today. The same goes for Ghostlin, claiming a Night Vig should give him enough towncred until N2 where he should be investigated accordingly.

I'm re-reading BBmolla for the time being.

[Wraith]

Specifically, the post where he said "Out of EC and IceGuy, one is scum, but not both." Both flipped town, which is why the EC nightkill smelled like framing to me. Now that Ghostlin claimed it as a vigkill I'm not so sure. Still I'd rather lynch BBmolla than Jakalope at this point.

[Ghostlin]

Specifically, the post where he said "Out of EC and IceGuy, one is scum, but not both." Both flipped town, which is why the EC nightkill smelled like framing to me. Now that Ghostlin claimed it as a vigkill I'm not so sure. Still I'd rather lynch BBmolla than Jakalope at this point.

Which is why I'm suspicious of Jak. Really, the tossup last night was pulling the trigger on DX (I acutally wanted to see if he's contribute more on Day 2 which is why I didn't), and pulling the trigger on Jak (who I thought a wagon was possible on).

When I play protown killing roles, I am more likely to pull the trigger on a player I think is scummy but not as likely to get lynched (most likely due to lurking reasons).

All of Jak's reads have been like this; one of this person and this person is scum. It's not really scumhunting.

[TheJakalope]

All of Jak's reads have been like this; one of this person and this person is scum. It's not really scumhunting.

It's like I'm saying I have scum reads on both of them. but, I don't see them being scum together.

[Ghostlin]

umm,
there is a scum motovation to kill somebody scummy in a 2 scum faction game.

I don't think (again, WIFOM) every scum team spends time killing other scum in a 2 party scum game, otherwise MoI wouldn't have died. He was pretty obv town at the end of Day 1. That said, I don't have any explanation again of why only two people died yesterday.

[Ghostlin]

Ghostlin's pet theories of the day:

1) Looking through the vote counts, 1 person has been on every wagon yesterday that got enough votes to be lynchable (the leading wagon). (From 1.4 to 1.13). That person is Stefan B, and earns him a place on the scum tier, but I do want to pursue Jak, which is why I've not voted him yet.

2) If DX is not a doublevoter, there's another person likely to be a DV. That person is not necessarly scum (I need to read that person's ISO to make sure).

[The Fonz]

This is probably more for my benefit than anyone else's, but ever since I saw someone replace into a game and call the entire gamestate based pretty much solely on the personalities involved, what I can recall of those I've played with (if I played with you and you're not on this list, you go down as 'completely unmemorable') so here's my pre-readthrough assessment of people:

2. Baby Spice* - Seem to recall her being considered an easy lynch in past- simplistic reasoning/prone to AtE?
3. PeregrineV - Somewhat weak but non-VI player
9. Oversoul (replaces Lowell) - not the most competent, does try as town iirc
15. Bogre - Lurker
16. Global Warming (a hydra of RayFrost + ConSpiracy) - Both competent, I tend to disagree with RayFrost a lot in general
17. Alabaska J* - Vet, can't remember anything about his playstyle
19. Yosarian2 - I agree with him
20. ToastyToast (replaces Magister Ludi)
21. David Xanatos - Awesomeness
25. zMuffinMan - competent, aggressive as town

[Magua]

The Fonz replaces sageamagoo

[The Fonz]

To end p4

StefanB and MOI have the 'willing to start an argument about nothing' towntell. SB not wolf.

Personally, I don't think I have ever seen scum fake that kind of mistake, but people make a big deal out of the possibility every time.

Small amount of early IIoA off David.

BBMolla enters and random votes ignoring everything that's actually happened. Not a lot of town motive there.

Otolia's entry rubs me the wrong way- not sure why.

But then follows it with 'Going out of his way to piss people off' towntell.

Between Magister, Magna, and David X, 1 is anti-town.

Annoying vague pontification that doesn't get us anywhere. Might be a playstyle thing.

OOOOH, DarthYoshi #75 scummy. For one, it was a joke. Also, policy-lynching isn't a scumtell. Thirdly, appears to be asking inane questions rather than trying to work out people's thought process for himself, ie, scumhunt. MOI's reason for questioning BBM in particular seems obvious if you give it a moment's thought.

TheJak now giving off hardcore VI tells.

Yos scumtell: Yos has in the past indicated that if someone says 'these two are not both town' then they're likely scum. Surely the same thing applies to saying there's one scum in three people?

Disagree strongly with baby spice 90. Don't think it's scummy though. When someone says 'X is strange' I always think, 'In what way?'

[ToastyToast]

OKAY THIS IS THE FIRST *whatever page I make it to in 15 minutes* pages.

Early game stuff that made me go hmmmm:
StefanB is prob town for his not understanding the faction thingy. +he's not scummy anyway

BabySpice on Ludi: for one, Otoila had already mentioned this and it looks like BS had just picked up on it whilst reading the game. But on the other hand, as soon as BabySpice got bitched at for the spamming thing, Otoila's comment took the suddenly didn't matter all too much.

Sidebar: I am amazed that nobody seems to care that IceGuy is pushing a policy lynch already rather than, you know, trying to scumhunt. Why lynch all flakers, IceGuy? Unvote. Vote: IceGuy.

This gets +scum points. It was in RVS. People of both alignments will propose such policy lynches in almost every game. Trying to get a PL is somewhat anti-town, but pretty null in terms of alignment.

I've never seen Jackalope do the *scum is in this grp* thingy. Need to read rest of game for a better opinion.

Yeah, I'm a bit wary of the folks random voting on page three when there are other attempts being made by players to get us out of RVS.

again, not scummy. People who realize the game is open are likely to make their quick RVS if its still early enough. It was her first post. Not likin' where yoshi is goin with these.

Alabaska....not very original on any of his points...

Apparently its 5 pages in 15 minutes. good deal.