Open 175 - Picking Simplicity (Game Over)

[SpyreX]

Lets break it down:

Being generous there are four states in essence one could view someone: scum, town, neutral, or null.

Zwet's statement eliminates the possibility of scum.
By the nature of stating he doesn't agree with the read it implies there is a read of his own which eliminates the possibility of null.

So, we're left with: town or neutral.

1.) In the case Zwet thinks Pom is town:
This is proposing to lynch a player you find town. This is scummy ex machina. This is lynchworthy. (I think it was this case but lets be thourough)

2.) In the case Zwet thinks Pom is neutral:
You are proposing a lynch of a neutral player for "information". On top of the visceral response of an informational lynch is silly (all lynches provide information) and the timing being wrong (day 1 is not really going to be a good time for an informational lynch) and it being an open setup (eliminating one area of "information" to be gained) -

what information is garnered from a neutral read

?

In the cases when one is going to lynch for information it, assumably, would be to find scum. If the case is bogus, as he said, what is gained from this?

So, in one case its a contradiction. In the other it just absolutely makes little sense.

I think that it was case 1 and a classic OOPS. Even if case 2 I'm calling shenanigans.

[Scott Brosius]

I asked Scott specifically and I've seen this "omg anti-town" business pushed now from multiple fronts when it really, really isn't what the issue is built around.

Yes I was referring to zwet in that post

[Head_Honcho]

@Honcho-438: Defending zwet is not a priority for me at all. The important thing is that one recognizes that he could be scummy (not at present), and you have to be aware of the reasoning that someone uses to hop on a wagon. As I recall, one of your BIG reasons was that zwet was active lurking. The two are synonymous if you know anything.

How much experience do you have with zwet?

WHAT IS THIS?

Yabba this was a serious question, I'm not even sure what you were talking about here.

[Blastinus]

Wow. Miss a few pages, and you miss a lot.

Anyway, on the topic of Zwet, my main difficulty with his posts is that he's incredibly vague with almost everything he does and says. Like WarWound, he's doing almost nothing but posts of one line, and sometimes the posts are completely meaningless, like this one for instance:

How is yabba not dead?

Answer: Because nobody else voted for him after you did. You could figure that out yourself without needing to make a post about it.

These posts, and similar posts of that kind, are practically lurking, considering their general lack of meaningful content. At least WW has the excuse of being new to this game. Zwet doesn't have that luxury.

Unvote. Vote: Zwet

To be honest, at this point, I still think that AntiHero is scummy, but as he has seemingly dropped off the face of the earth, he's probably going to get replaced anyway.

[Iguana]

Ya know? Why is it that I make a case and people wagon up the player on mostly unrelated things?

Also Blast, please stop applying conditional tells based on join date... join date means squadoosh

[yabbaguy]

@Honcho-539: Basically, you're wrong if you think my priority was to protect zwet completely. I felt your accusations were off the mark.

@Iguana-541:

Why is it that I make a case and people wagon up the player on mostly unrelated things?

Doing that is scummy to me, so I'm intrigued. Anybody in particular you see doing this?

[Toro]

Catching up.

[Grimmy]

Been too busy today. Ill work on my read tomorrow if my editor doesnt find me first.

Grimmy
scared of being defenestrated.

[Iguana]

@Iguana: I've seen *nothing* that says scummy from zwet, and I must've missed your cases that indicate otherwise. SpyreX, same to you. You've basically highlighted the active lurking, which is consistent with his play.

This has been answered.

The "helping the town" bit is a speculative tell. However, something in me would think that the scum kind of helps out the town by just sort of gently saying "oh yeah, he's obvtown", but it's not necessarily

based on seeing actual play

, just seeing that he's floundering was enough. That's what I based it off of.

hmmm? You want me putting up reasoning for WW being town? I think I already did that if its what you are asking. Besides, why is getting a town read on someone not many others have town reads on a bad thing?

Posting a random scumlist with no basis behind the players at the time (so player-by-player analysis (PLBPLA) isn't going to help me now) was not scumhunting to me.

It's not scummy, per se

, but it's not scumhunting either since you're basically just randomly putting people down. I thought it was a little too soon to be putting suspects down in your tiers with only a few posts from each.

So why is it part of your case against me? Also five tiers isnt that many, by mid/late game im up to 10.

@Iguana-541:

Why is it that I make a case and people wagon up the player on mostly unrelated things?

Doing that is scummy to me, so I'm intrigued. Anybody in particular you see doing this?

Just read the case I make and compare it to other votes hun. Its not all that time consuming. I didnt want 12kb lynched for lurking, he was getting replaced and scummy before that. I dont think zwet should be lynched for being new/old or making small posts.

@Blast and Yabba - Why is AH scummy?

[yabbaguy]

Iguana, once again, my cases have been half-assed all game. If you're still operating on the definition that everyone should be an idealistic pro-town player, then you are sorely mistaken. And I've stated this so many fucking times already, do you not believe me?

I would've rather you posted why WW was town at the beginning, when he was doing nothing. If you have any tells from before, please tell me.

And I think it's too time-consuming to look for everyone's vote on AH/12KB, I'm not gonna do that. I'd rather go off observations you have off-hand, which you hinted at having, but if you don't have any, never mind. I'm just too busy to do the looking right now.

[Iguana]

Iguana, once again, my cases have been half-assed all game. If you're still operating on the definition that everyone should be an

idealistic

pro-town player, then you are sorely mistaken. And I've stated this so many fucking times already, do you not believe me?

Well... idealy yeah. See, my job is to make sure players who are

not

pro-town die off. Im not going to operate under the premise that I should be letting scummy people off the hook because they just are making "half-assed cases". At the very least you need to get into a debate with them to determine alignment.

I would've rather you posted why WW was town at the beginning, when he was doing nothing. If you have any tells from before, please tell me.

The quick snap from what he was used to, to what is required here is very telling. No way we lynch D1 on what would of applied to him, so no way scum would of needed to make that switch to giving opinions as he did. He is town.

And I think it's too time-consuming to look for everyone's vote on AH/12KB, I'm not gonna do that. I'd rather go off observations you have off-hand, which you hinted at having, but if you don't have any, never mind. I'm just too busy to do the looking right now.

Votes on the end of the wagon touched on lurking, which was not happening. You still havent said why AH is scummy though. Seriously, why? I dont see that one.

[Flava Flave]

@Pom
This will be the 6th time I ask. To keep it simple for you, this will be the only part of my post. The quote below is my question and if you view me in ISO, you will see this quote pop up several times. The quote is below:

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Thanks for the question. Here's an answer: I care about whether or not she's scum (her alignment). But why on earth can'ts he be scum, acting all Wifomy about whether or not she's a PR? Does what she did clear her as town?

There's no answer there. You said the WIFOM confused town. The only WIFOM is about Iguana's role, not alignment. So it shouldn't even affect town considering we don't care yet whether anyone is a power role or not.

No, Iguana isn't cleared.

[Pomegranate]

@Pom
This will be the 6th time I ask. To keep it simple for you, this will be the only part of my post. The quote below is my question and if you view me in ISO, you will see this quote pop up several times. The quote is below:

If you're town, why are you getting confused over whether Iguana is a vanilla or a power role? If you're town, you shouldn't care. If you're town, all that matters is the alignment of others, not the role.

Thanks for the question. Here's an answer: I care about whether or not she's scum (her alignment). But why on earth can'ts he be scum, acting all Wifomy about whether or not she's a PR? Does what she did clear her as town?

There's no answer there. You said the WIFOM confused town. The only WIFOM is about Iguana's role, not alignment. So it shouldn't even affect town considering we don't care yet whether anyone is a power role or not.

No, Iguana isn't cleared.

k.

I may need to request replacement at some point soon.

[Flava Flave]

k.

That's it? Really?

[Pomegranate]

k.

That's it? Really?

Yeah. Why?

I somewhat agree with it, and as I like Iguana's play better than before, I'm not going to worry about tit right now.

[WarWound]

Wow. Miss a few pages, and you miss a lot.

Anyway, on the topic of Zwet, my main difficulty with his posts is that he's incredibly vague with almost everything he does and says. Like WarWound, he's doing almost nothing but posts of one line, and sometimes the posts are completely meaningless, like this one for instance:

How is yabba not dead?

Answer: Because nobody else voted for him after you did. You could figure that out yourself without needing to make a post about it.

These posts, and similar posts of that kind, are practically lurking, considering their general lack of meaningful content. At least WW has the excuse of being new to this game. Zwet doesn't have that luxury.

Unvote. Vote: Zwet

To be honest, at this point, I still think that AntiHero is scummy, but as he has seemingly dropped off the face of the earth, he's probably going to get replaced anyway.

HEY, i posted more than 1 sentence 3 times, they were a paragraph or two wrong, can you at least give me that?

[Flava Flave]

k.

That's it? Really?

Yeah. Why?

I somewhat agree with it, and as I like Iguana's play better than before, I'm not going to worry about tit right now.

Can you tell me why you were getting confused over Iguana's role in the first place?

[Pomegranate]

I don't like the Wifom more than I did before, but I'm not as bothered by Iguana, and I don't think we'll get any farther.

[WarWound]

also.. Pom im sorry for putting the hammer down on you in the other game

[Pomegranate]

We don't talk about ongoing games around here.

[Blastinus]

HEY, i posted more than 1 sentence 3 times, they were a paragraph or two wrong, can you at least give me that?

Duly noted. My apologies for generalizing.

Anyway, to answer Iguana's question of why I think AntiHero is scummy, I have to admit that I mostly voted for him because he rubbed me the wrong way in his first post by basically accusing me of doing nothing but making half-baked suspicions and jumping on bandwagons. Oh, and there was the part right at the end where he reworded one of my most recent posts (at the time) in a way that made me seem like an absolute moron. Needless to say, that didn't sit well with me at all.

But, like I said, he's vanished, so I don't think that voting for him would accomplish much anyway, whether or not he is scum.

[Col.Cathart]

Blast: It's interesting though, how you jumped 12KB wagon when it had already some people on it, for pretty weak reason, and now you jumped on zwet wagon, for reasons, because he plays like typical zwet (Here you have an example. He behaved exactly the same with 'why is xxx still alive' etc. etc. and he was a Doc), and not because of, for example, his slip, which SpyreX already covered with details.

Also, does anyone else looks suspicious to you?

[semioldguy]

Vote Count 8:

With 20 alive, it takes 11 to lynch.

zwetschenwasser

(4) – Iguana, SpyreX, Pomegranate, Blastinus

Antihero

(3) – Hyl, Flava Flave, WarWound

Pomegranate

(3) – Col.Cathart, Nikanor, Head_Honcho

Iguana

(3) – Dramonic, skitzer, yabbaguy

Blastinus

(1) – Antihero

Col.Cathart

(1) – Scott Brosius

WarWound

(1) – Toro

yabbaguy

(1) – zwetschenwasser

Not Voting (3) –

Grimmy, YankCane151, ZazieR

Notes:

* Prods going out later today
* Searching for replacements for YankCane151 and Hyl
* Deadline for the end of Day One is on Thursday, November 12 at 2:00pm PST (Pacific Standard Time)

[skitzer]

Can someone tell me how the zwet in this game is different from the zwet in every other game? Maybe then I'll consider a vote.

[zwetschenwasser]

Note that those more inclined to policy lynch/make up cases (e.g. "He's contradicting himself", which I'm not) are more likely to be scum in my book.