Newbie 789 (Game over!)

[Ojanen]

Re: Scien -
The 'pressure vote'. Why did you (Ojanen) make such a thing of this, yet not even comment (as far as I recall) on the fact that camn's Raivann vote was also announced as a pressure vote? Sure, camn's pressure vote carried an explanation of what she wanted to happen as a result of the vote, but so did Scien's, no?

I did actually comment on camn's vote. See first content post.
Camn's vote put Raivann to L-1, also pressured A&A heavily and had a threat.

Now, Raivann, if you fail to comply I will start pushing your lynch on the grounds of UNHELPFUL. I believe I can succeed. So please, if you ARE town, start being helpful.

That is a very different tone and L-1 wagon situation.

With the deadline, I'll obviously only consider voting for one of these, which means

I will have to leave the Ojanen vote for tomorrow

. With that in mind, a Scien vote might be the way to go, as that might help me make a decision on Ojanen tomorrow. I don't think I would want to lynch camn over Dogmeat or Scien at this stage, and since ASH has flaked rather than lurked, maybe Scien is the right move today. As I say, I don't really see Scien/Ojanen scumteam, so this may well be the most informative lynch for me.

Hmm. Excuse me but this looks fishy to me.
If you're scum and Scien isn't, that looks really strongly like setting lynches up.
The mere argument about decision based on me not having votes is odd when noone else had a bandwagon either and there's plenty of suspicion for me flying around.

[camn]

*

camn

(IC)
ObvTown
If you let me live till tomorrow, I am going to destroy your entire scumteam.
Just warning you.

The main reason I can see for them not killing him on night one is he is a scum himself. Why do you think they let you live camn?

OMGOMG!!

I had totally forgotten about this!

I Taunted them for a reason!!

That reason?
Well.. my logic was this:
In MY newbie game, when I was scum, I wanted to kill the IC right away. I was afraid.
To this day, when I play with some of the really big-name guys.. I get afraid, and I want to kill them.

So I figured I would play into that a little, which would encourage NEWBIE-scum to kill me. This would be fine, since I am vanilla, and taking a nightkill as vanilla is pretty awesome.

ANYWAY... clearly more experienced scum would see the WIFOM there, and know that I was simply trying to draw the kill away from any Power Roles we might have.

I think it would have been more clear without all these replacements... but I was trying to lock down Azrhie or Amished as one of the scum.

For now, I oppose a Ojanen lynch, because I have a girl-crush. (plus her INCREDIBLY pro-town play so far)
also

UNVOTE

There are two scum, and one is more experienced. That is the more important scum to kill, imo.

Scien? Could be. I will accept a Scien lynch... but I wanna try and re-read him today and see what I can see.
ChannelDelibird/Amished? I think yes. I think Amished was playing well, and had me on his side, which would be a pretty good reason not to kill me.

Hmm.

FOr now....

VOTE: ChannelDelibird

I was too soft on Amished. Raivann may be right about you.
also.. wtf?

So I guess Scien is a possible. I'd kind of dismissed him for today.....

Vote: Scien

also, I am all for utility lynches... but I am NOT for you setting up mislynches, a la

As I say, I don't really see Scien/Ojanen scumteam, so this may well be the most informative lynch for me.

[Elmo]

Day 2, Vote Count #10

Scien (2) <- Ojanen, ChannelDelibird
ChannelDelibird (2) <- Raivann, camn
camn <- Dogmeat

Not Voting: Scien, arelian

The

deadline

is Wednesday, 8th July 20:00 UTC, which is 1 day, 3 hours and 32 minutes from this post.
With 7 alive, it's 4 to lynch.

[arelian]

CDB, in your last post, you mentioned that you didn't really see the possibility of a Scien/Ojanen scumteam. I did a full reread of Scien's posts, and I noticed something kinda weird. Whenever he noted things about Azhrei, it was almost never "he is scummy", and was usually "he seems like he could be scum, but i may be misinterpreting it". It seemed like his posts were designed to put mild suspicions on Azhrei but to never actually vote for him.

examples:

FoS on Azhrei for the moment. I want to start answering questions, and talking with people before I drop a case on him or vote.

Don't get me wrong. Most your other posts look fine. You just seem to be playing a little more hotheaded than I am used to and I am trying to make sense of it.

3) Azhrei, until I can figure out whats going on with that play style thing that we are starting to talk about.

So after that, I reread Azhrei, and I noticed that in day 1, he defended hamburger, then when Scien replaced him he never once mentioned Scien. Then, on day 2, he doesn't do much else other than jump on Scien's camn case. Could it have been that after the night phase when they could talk again, they mentioned trying to set up a Camn lynch so they wouldn't have to waste a nightkill on her?

After that I reread Ojanen, and she mentions Scien as a middle ground, then posts some thoughts on him. But she seems non-committal, like with this:

Unless further reviewing/developments or good explanations from Scien change my mind, vote: Scien.

As for Ojanen's argument on Scien, it did make a lot of sense. I feel like she should be more confident. Scien did appear to know that Cojin would flip town and was trying to look better. Pressuring someone by saying that you're pressuring them only isn't too useful. So maybe Ojanen is trying to distance herself from Scien with all of this.

Anyway, I think the case on Scien alone is much stronger than the case on the Scien/Ojanen scumteam. Just something to keep in mind though.

Oh, and one more thing. Ojanen, after I accused you of potentially trying to run the town (which I admit was a bad line of thought) you seemed very defensive. Like, I was right about you being scum, but wrong about the reason. Sorta like I was getting lucky, which I could see might have really frustrated you.

I'll put Scien at L-1 for now.

Vote: Scien

. What do you think of my idea about you and Ojanen being connected? Do you think that Ojanen is possibly scum? And Ojanen, how convinced are you that Scien is scum?

[Dogmeat]

Contradiction in

red

, no?
Scum motive for camn for doing saying the thing in

green

and drawing attention to the fact of surviving?
For

blue

, depends.
First of all not everyone was present, second a hammer would have been extremely superbly suspicious especially if it had contradicted with earlier voiced opinions of the player. Raivann would have been a much easier target casewise for the L-1 camn vote and was also actually put on L-1 for a while.

Also, did you miss that camn claimed vanilla on day 1?

For the last question, I've been pretty vocal about my townread on camn.
Of course I wouldn't have hammered her.
Damn, I wish there was more time to talk to you to find out if your arguments are scummy or just imho misguided.

Camn got to L -1 if she was being set up for a lynch by the Mafia they tried their hardest and failed. Seems to me like she would be hard to set up for a lynch.

I agree that Raivann would of been the easier target. I was initially thinking he was scum, but now am starting to get more of an aggressive civvie vibe from him though.

I probably have missed the vanillia claim on day one still what weight can you really put in a claim on day one?

Having read up yes you have been pretty sure camn is a townie I should of read more before replying to your posts and I wouldn't of asked you that question.

I wish there was more time to coming in this close to the lynch is annoying

[Ojanen]

In MY newbie game, when I was scum, I wanted to kill the IC right away. I was afraid.
To this day, when I play with some of the really big-name guys.. I get afraid, and I want to kill them.

This is a possible axiom.
Shouldn't be thought of as a definite thing though.
In my newbie game I was scum, partner got lynched day 1 and I gleefully left the IC's alive (they were useful later too).

For now, I oppose a Ojanen lynch, because I have a girl-crush.(plus her INCREDIBLY pro-town play so far)

If you haven't noticed already, I somewhat confess to the same.

@Arelian:
If I was scum with Scien, what on earth would be my motive of digging up and pushing a case just before deadline when practically noone else was really suspicious of him? That would be really suboptimal play when I could have easily pushed other lynches.

Oh, and one more thing. Ojanen, after I accused you of potentially trying to run the town (which I admit was a bad line of thought) you seemed very defensive. Like, I was right about you being scum, but wrong about the reason. Sorta like I was getting lucky, which I could see might have really frustrated you.

Umm. There's no scum motivation, but also no townie motivation to lying down to a lynch with a case based on a really flawed argument.
You argument against my play specifically was contributing. Of couse I reacted incredulously, and I'm not sure how that's a tell on my alignment.

And Ojanen, how convinced are you that Scien is scum?

I think the scum is in Scien/CDB/Dogmeat + I'm slightly wary of you recently.
I think the case against Scien is the strongest one.
I got very bad vibes from CDB's reaction of potentially of setting up lynches though.

[Dogmeat]

That reason?
Well.. my logic was this:
In MY newbie game, when I was scum, I wanted to kill the IC right away. I was afraid.
To this day, when I play with some of the really big-name guys.. I get afraid, and I want to kill them.

So I figured I would play into that a little, which would encourage NEWBIE-scum to kill me. This would be fine, since I am vanilla, and taking a nightkill as vanilla is pretty awesome.

Okay I can get on board with this explanation it makes alot of sense and is what I wanted to hear. In a way I feel much better about our chances if you are not scum.

unvote

For now, I oppose a Ojanen lynch, because I have a girl-crush. (plus her INCREDIBLY pro-town play so far)

I also get a strong townie vibe from Ojanen problem is I am not sure who I don't have a townie read off yet.

I am going to reread some posts and see if I can come up with anything.

[camn]

So, I just read Scien again.. and I noticed something funny.

Even when he is attacking me, he agrees with me.

I think I might have mentioned it before, in my defense.. but looking at it now, it looks like he is hedging his bets. . . and it worked!
The only reason I didn't ROAST him for building a crap-case against me was his wonderfully pleasant, agreeable fence-sitting.

Scien, you are at L-1, and I would be willing to hammer.


Claim or die.

[Ojanen]

@CDB: Why did you only react in any way to the case on Scien after I asked about it?
You must have read it already before your first post today that only had stuff about Camn, my slot, ASH slot.
How come you went from ignorance to immediate vote?

[camn]

He's bussing, thats why.

[Ojanen]

Maybe.
The set up of my lynch for tomorrow in case Scien would flip town just bugs me.

[ChannelDelibird]

@CDB: Why did you only react in any way to the case on Scien after I asked about it?
You must have read it already before your first post today that only had stuff about Camn, my slot, ASH slot.
How come you went from ignorance to immediate vote?

It's been well-publicised that I've been behind on the game recently. It took me too long to do my camn read-through, during which time you made your Scien case. I hadn't read it in full yet, though I was aware of its presence.

I'm pretty sure my logic in voting Scien is clear.

I'm not setting up a chainlynch tomorrow on Ojanen. In my first post I made it clear that I was suspicious of Azhrei, probably now my number 1 suspect after ASH clearly flaked rather than just avoided questions, but the fact that Ojanen didn't have a vote at the time made it a bad vote with the deadline coming up as it is. So in this situation, rather than pushing an Ojanen lynch as I probably would be otherwise, I can re-evaluate her tomorrow, as it looks like Ojanen is an improvement on Azhrei. Scien's alignment if lynched might help me make such a decision, but it's not going to be the

only

reason in that decision, of course not.

[Ojanen]

There were 4 people with 1 vote each. No wagons.
Arelian had very recently voted and unvoted me but not dropped the case; it's really not as if there's no suspicion hovering around for my slot.
Not voting for your number 1 suspicion in that situation, especially as you were not gonna be absent until deadline is strange.

[ChannelDelibird]

I wasn't sure how long I was going to be out (indeed, according to Elmo's last vote count I'm reasonably certain the deadline passed before my 561), so I wanted to be sure that I was voting for someone who already had a vote, thereby increasing the chances of our getting a lynch today, which you will agree is important, no?

[Ojanen]

Huh? So you're saying you thought the deadline was today?

[ChannelDelibird]

It's not? O_O

[ChannelDelibird]

ack. I thought today was Wednesday.

Well, with under 24 hours to go

now

, the point stands, but I guess it didn't earlier. I'm sorry, I normally don't make mistakes like that, even with the time zone difference.

I am so embarrassed right now.

[Ojanen]

Yeah, tomorrow.
I would harp on about you quoting me saying the deadline is TOMORROW in all caps on the top of your first post this morning. But the end of that post with the Transformers only makes sense if you really got mixed up already at that point so I think the confusion was genuine.

[ChannelDelibird]

Yeah, tomorrow.
I would harp on about you quoting me saying the deadline is TOMORROW in all caps on the top of your first post this morning. But the end of that post with the Transformers only makes sense if you really got mixed up already at that point so I think the confusion was genuine.

Yeah, you see, in my timezone, that post was listed as being made yesterday... >_>

[Ojanen]

I thought you're in the UK? I'm in Germany, I assumed +1 hour from you.
Did you think we had no-lynched already?

[ChannelDelibird]

I'm currently in Holland, where my parents live, for the summer (uni's finished). Couldn't be bothered to update my location since I'll be back soon enough.

Yes, when I got back this evening I thought we had no-lynched.

[camn]

Hm.

21 hours to deadline.

Scien had ZERO votes last time he posted HERE.
He has posted in his other game 3x since then.
Maybe he thought he could slide into the night phase?

Scien.. post or perish, friend.

[Raivann]

So after that, I reread Azhrei, and I noticed that in day 1, he defended hamburger, then when Scien replaced him he never once mentioned Scien. Then, on day 2, he doesn't do much else other than jump on Scien's camn case. Could it have been that after the night phase when they could talk again, they mentioned trying to set up a Camn lynch so they wouldn't have to waste a nightkill on her?

Scien could have hammered Camn earlier, I even asked him to...

@Scien-Please hammer camn, before Amished hammers me.

[camn]

Not without giving himself away.
He had already totally buddied up.

But that is an interesting point.

Of course, it simultaneously cuts into your case on Amished.. (or was he gone by then?)

[Raivann]

@dogmeat- Would you support CDB lynch?

@Ojanen- Why Scien and not CDB ? I'm not as sure about Scien's alignment.

@Camn- Why do you think Scien didn't hammer you when he had the chance?
Why do you think Scien unvoted me when I was at L1 before CDB came into game?