Open 645: C9++ - Game Over

[Smithereens]

Forget my other reads lol, this needs to die.

VOTE: Ira

Is there anyone who doesn't scum read Ira?

[Smithereens]

My scum reads constitute his town list and that gives me a really good feeling.

[iraonavp]

Ranger not telling everyone what the supposed (and in fact non-existent) slip was needless and scum-aligned theatrics.

[iraonavp]

Forget my other reads lol, this needs to die.

VOTE: Ira

Is there anyone who doesn't scum read Ira?

You are wrong and I can convince you.

[Smithereens]

please convince me.

[iraonavp]

LicketyQuickety is a strong town-aligned read for me.

I specifically remember browsing the thread and feeling slight paranoia that I had read him wrong, because most of the thread seemed to disagree with me. Then, I turned over the page, saw the post below, and all my doubts vanished.

I like the unvote, but why not vote someone in the game?

What do you think about Lickety?

I repeat myself. What is your read on me?

His ISO is mostly posts like these. LQ is sure of himself to a fault and doesn't care how that makes him look. Sort of like how Dunnstral would be playing if he was town-aligned.

It doesn't matter that most of his posts are nonsensical because he believes what he's saying and that's all that matters. You cannot read through his ISO and come back with the conclusion that he doesn't think he knows for sure what he's doing.

[Bins]

To be fair, I can agree that it may be just a Kappy thing. Either way, Kappy deserves a ban like Boonskiies did that limits his games. Boonskiies was the opposite of what you're suggesting, though. He would replace out of games he was town in. How do you know Kappy's preference? I don't like using this as a reason. Too many assumptions.

I feel weird being the one defending Ira. But his posting has made me feel better about the slot, not worse.

I'll reevaluate my LQ read after work, I guess. If he wants me to explain my reasons I can probably do that as well.

[iraonavp]

the dude's probably shit town.

As scum, LicketyQuickety

thrives

, absolutely

thrives

in town assuming this. He will throw bad reads around, make a lot of noise, and people will basically go, "terrible" but also "not scum", allowing him to push an incredibly pro-scum agenda and get away with it.

So no.
Not shit town.
Just blatant scum.

Ranger's insistence here possibly comes from the fact that she believes that she would make this read while town-aligned. Basically she sees a town-aligned player getting a free pass for bad play and doesn't think it's just.

This is not an argument for calling LQ scum-aligned, this is an argument for making sure people don't think he's town-aligned. This is an important distinction because that's what is bothering her, what she sees as a superficial assumption yet infuriatingly correct.

[Smithereens]

I can see Bins being scum with Ira~

like two peas in a pod, and it's really cute ^_^

[Smithereens]

Also Ira, I know that LQ is town. It's the fact that how I know he's town that's problematic, you see.

You're so adamant he's town because you know he is town, because you're scum. Which means you're right he is town, therefore I'll town read him. Flawless logic go.

[Bins]

Or you could see us both being town.

Ira's vote on me was the best vote by far. His reasoning was also the least fabricated. I didn't think his jump felt opportunistic at all.

[Smithereens]

Nah my case vs you was the best if this is a competition. But hey it isn't. We'll just lynch you both imo and see what happens. I'm thinking really good things like happiness and joy.

[Bins]

How is your avatar bigger than 100x100?!

[iraonavp]

Also Ira, I know that LQ is town. It's the fact that how I know he's town that's problematic, you see.

You're so adamant he's town because you know he is town, because you're scum. Which means you're right he is town, therefore I'll town read him. Flawless logic go.

Yes, but I already used that logic on davesaz so I'm immune.

[iraonavp]

And if you're going to insist Lickety then I'm going to insist you give something more than 'gut feeling.'

Okay. I have an N0 guilty on LicketyQuickety. There ya go. More than gut.

OK I feel stupid for having to state this (and more stupid for you saying it), but there is no N0 in C9++. And I just can't take this seriously because most the time N0 give a VT result and Cop wouldn't out themselves Day 1 and there is not even a guaranteed Cop in the game. The only scenario I can see a reason for a cop to come out day 1 is because they were a 1-shot. But again, I have never seen a game where a 1-shot Cop gets an investigative result N0. I can honestly say this is one of the more bizarre claims I have seen (barring some of the ones I have made tho).

IF YOU ARE COP, DO NOT COUNTER CLAIM THIS!!!

Lickety, man, I was townreading you . Why, if you're town, did the most obvious rebuttal not involve anything to the effect of "How could she get a guilty on me when I'm town?" I'm trying my best to treat this with a grain of salt, but as far as scumslips go, this is quite a biggie.

I never explained why this was a scum-aligned post and I should.

Sadness is not an appropriate reaction to changing your read on someone, it is fake and awkward. If anything it is an attempt to soften the blow of him turning on LQ.

The near rhetorical question heavily loaded with false premises tells a plain farmer nothing, it is almost literally "if ur town y r u scum??". It is not about engaging LQ, it's about throwing shade and trying to slowly ease into a vote.

He inches towards an LQ vote and "this is quite a biggie" is just horrible compared to where he claims to be at, so instinctively fake. I cannot possibly accept his holistic position on scumslips is anything other than a patchwork attempt at remaining consistent.

[Ümläüt]

Happy Father's Day! Posting on the run so this is just a list of disconnected thoughts.

I still want to make a longer post on Dave but Ira is just painfully obvscum. I have to think about whether he and Dave make sense as a scum team though.

I have strong town feelings about Ranger.

Dunn is so obvtown I can't believe anyone is scumreading him.

I'm on the fence on LQ, I have trouble reading hyperaggressive players in general, I'll probably have to wait for a flip to make up my mind.

[davesaz]

@Dave, I remember your defense of Transcend felt a tad strong, as if you knew he was town despite him just entering the game. Would you explain why you didn't/don't want players voting for Trans?

I am inherently suspicious of people who yell "xxx is scum vote with me" without even once giving a why.
I had no read on Trans at that point. It would not matter in the slightest who xxx was, I would want a reason. The questions were not to defend Trans, they were to sort Dunn.
I will make an exception when xxx has just done something that I find scummy, but in that case I'll usually explain myself while still asking the other(s) to see if they are using the same reasoning.

[davesaz]

I have lots of material to do logic analysis on but have not been able to put the time into it yet. It's obviously easier with flips.
Ranger's 367 contained a

joke

that was badly misread by several people.
I have meta on one of the people who misread the post, and that meta says his reaction to it is probably not AI.
Don't really like Bins but I'd have to review our previous games in common to find out if it matches meta. I suspect it's playstyle and not AI.

My style of forming reads is pretty much the opposite of Ranger's. She gets something out of the flow just reading for catchup. (whether it's real or manufactured takes a later review) I have to re-read and study, and even then sometimes don't get anything strong out of it at all. It is reread time, but this isn't the only thing I'm doing today so it's hard to say when I'll have results.

[Zachstralkita]

How is your avatar bigger than 100x100?!

Most important question in this thread


ALSO IRA town. And I'm not just saying that cause he's voting scum ))

[LicketyQuickety]

I am somewhat on the fence on ira. What they say makes sense, but its kinda in a knowing more than they should kind of what.

[a plain farmer]

I was worried about Bins but I think she looks more town than scum.

VOTE: iraonavp

Primarily for the opportunism and rhetorical contortions, secondarily for Kappy.

[Dunnstral]

How is your avatar bigger than 100x100?!

Because it can be 120x100

[Dunnstral]

Oh yeah

UNVOTE:

[a plain farmer]

Is something making you no longer scumread ira?

[Dunnstral]

Just because Kappy replaced out doesn't mean he was mafia