FF7 Mafia (Game Over)

[Jaqen Hghar]

And there was reason.

I alluded to it heavily.

You used to woulda picked up on that

[mastin2]

Simply realize that you need to trust in others

a little

more and not go all conf bias.

Who's talking to who?

'Cause, uh.
Jaqen.

This is something I needed to tell you.

I

literally started a thread about the importance of trust

.
I most CERTAINLY hold plenty of it.

YOU, however, were the one who didn't trust me.

I placed trust in you to be town. I placed trust in you to not be lying.
Yet you held none for me, even after I made it explicit I was asking for it for

one day

. One damn day. You couldn't give me one. damn. day.

[Jaqen Hghar]

Cmon now mastin. That's not fair and you know it. How many times have you had you detractor killed as scum for one damned day? Lol! Can you count that high?

[Jaqen Hghar]

And you're right. I've never trusted anyone in any game for more than half a day phase. That's me. Has always been me. Not you.

[mastin2]

Hiplop. Don't forget hiplop

I did not defend him.

I townread him, yes.
I did not defend him.

There's a difference.

I had reason to believe hiplop was town because he had reason to believe I was scum from Inorganic Chemistry.
That townread, while a townread,

consistently

declined. As in, if you look at my trajectory on hiplop, throughout the whole game, it kept going down. And down. And down. (In part because that was literally the only reason I truly had for the townread, aside from good commentary here and there.) By D6, hiplop was one of my prime 3 candidates for being scum. I had him, ProHawk, and then rotating between Antagonist (initial) and Radja (final) in there, but hiplop was basically number two scumread, or by day's end, number one.

That's not defending a player.

[Jaqen Hghar]

M

Not that you've asked for it, but...

When you say frog, many people jump

You simply townreading him is the same thing

[Tere]

Interrupting the conversation to say. best. Scumboard. Ever.

As you were.

[Sajin]

(I was a setup reviewer for this game and followed it in the spoiler QT 3 vs 4 Where 3 had stronger powers including daytalk resistance to night kills and stronger manipulation abilities.) Town had quite a few tools to take over the day play early with innocent child and the sensor with excellent latent threats in a tracker and arsonist. Shinra's main power was their +1 number advantage but had weaker PR abilities except arguably a godfather (which dodged the 2 shot cop and if he was the only one on the sensor wagon).

You. Nevwr. Gave. Your. Results.

Period.

You never explicitly said: Mastin did not do anything on the night I tracked her. That conflicts with x y z in her posts hinting that she DID do something. Because of that, I feel confident in saying she's scum.

What you did is bad. It's shitty town play. What you could have done, above, makes it good town play.

You were trying to play the hero, with the super clever oh look, I CAUGHT HER WITH A MEANINGLESS RESULT, because I'm soooooooooo good. You weren't trying to help your team win.

That's how I see it at least. Get out of here with your history of play arguments. Smart players are capable of change, and are AWARE of those things which everyone else picks up on about them. It's insulting of you to think that other players, especially ones you claim to consider skilled, are so incapable of doing something which doesn't match the pattern of previous games that you can just throw out reason.

This was talked about in the spoiler QT if you are interested. The problem is both town players wanted to keep super secret information to themselves and it got the rest of town confused. I think they both learned something from it though. Jaquen realizes that it would be better to full claim results to clarify confusion. Mastin probably would of still been lynched but I think some aditional clarity could of earned some protection for Jaquen. I think Mastin learned something about the importance of coming clean about something earlier. A gambit is great until you start confusing other informational roles and while I understand Mastin's intent, it would of been better to add clarity to the conversation asap when someone claimed guilty instead of trying to maintain the gambit. (Also, your gambit here reminded me of your Boost Mafia 2 play for some reason).

This was an ongoing theme for a problem though as massclaim was delayed after it was apparent town needed some more information to go on.


Town had an equal chance to win imo. There was quite a few informational roles and the mafia traitor was best used at gunning for shinra (and it did so). Town had multiple MLs in a row. Some of the roles are very playstyle dependent that did not mesh well with playstyles (namely, innocent child is best on a very dominant poster and town arsonist/vig is best on someone more passive that does not get nightkilled over their suspicions). However that is some of luck involved with random role distribution and a variance in playstyles that amplify value. Multiball is always going to be swingy but this setup was tailored to make it slightly less so.

The sensor result was supposed to be a source to lead town with. Sensor is super super strong late game. Super super super super strong. Even with the slightly nerfed version due to multiball and the nature of the result it is EXTREMELY powerful. Even with it failing on the godfather you KNEW red scum had to be on the wagon. This meant that red had to exist in a group of 3 people towards the end which should of factored into the pairing analysis. This result could of even been improved if acted on earlier to narrow the pool and should of been a larger factor for analysis. This topic got dropped in late game discussion in favor of false trust placed in scum due to town. I actually attribute this to mollie's charisma over town's failing as she lead the conversation by steering it to different topics. She even managed to put herself into a 1vs1 doctor versus doctor lynch and get the conversation dropped the next day. Sometimes it is worth following through on the previous day's topics and plugging in the new information.

Red also got very lucky in the protection and crosskill department. However that was combined with excellent dayplay for the victory.

I was disappointed the roleblock inventor ability went unused. Shinra could of really used that towards the end.

Anyways, I hope people enjoyed the setup. I have daily thoughts posted in the spoiler QT if anyone cares to read some of them.

[mastin2]

M
Not that you've asked for it, but...
When you say frog, many people jump
You simply townreading him is the same thing

Well that's not my fault.

When I don't ask people to follow my reads, I don't expect people to follow my reads.
Meaning, when I don't ask for people's trust, I'm not expecting to be trusted.
Meaning, if I have a townread on a player that I'm not pushing, I'm not expecting people to sheep that townread.

[mastin2]

Like, if someone asked me about a read, I'd explain to the best of my ability that read and why I have it, but if it's not a strong read, I'm going to emphasize: it's not a strong read, please don't take my word for it, it's not a strong read, it's just something off of something.

[Jaqen Hghar]

That's fair

[Jaqen Hghar]

Too bad you're not near Houston. We could discuss this over the dinner I'm preparing for my wife and me right now- Chicken stuffed with cream cheese, tomatoes, chives, and basil served on a bed of roasted garlic mashed potatoes, topped with an onion/mushroom reduction sauce and with a side of sautéed carrots and fresh Brussel sprouts. Smells to die for? Can't wait til it's done!

[Varsoon]

My dinner was reheated pizza. ;_;

Thanks for the setup insight, Sajin. I think this was pretty well designed even with my misgivings about multiball.

[Sajin]

My dinner was reheated pizza. ;_;

Thanks for the setup insight, Sajin. I think this was pretty well designed even with my misgivings about multiball.

I am not a fan of multiball either. Most people don't like it due to the swinginess (which this setup did try to mitigate with the setup design to a degree). However, I don't like it because the optimal play becomes to lurk as scum and even as town because of the nature of a 2x kills 1x lynch game. Unkillable innocent child tries to break through this natural inclination to give town leadership but it did not play out that way. The Aeris role could of kept posting even through endgame.

[Varsoon]

I agree about the optimal play being lurking. I think a multiball setup could be pulled off without that issue, but it'd require some heavy mechanical changes from what's the norm.
I appreciate the efforts to mitigate the swing.

[mastin2]

My dinner was reheated pizza. ;_;

Oh my god, so was mine!

[Varsoon]

We should also team up again sometime, Mastin. For great justice.

[Feysal]

So it is finally over. Of course I knew it was over for town when there were no crosskills on the last night, since my guess that there would be four Shinra was confirmed in the Dead Thread.

I'm rather disappointed I was killed because you thought I was scum, and with FSS no less. He was the one scum I had time to catch while I was alive.

Saint should have been banned from this game during signups, and had I known he was Furcolow I would have employed Wisdom of the Crowd against him. If he joins a game only to spend it lurking, waiting for crosskills and boasting about his reputation as a legendary village idiot, he has no business being in large themes. He has not gotten any better in the five years I've known him, and continues to hold his title as worst player on site by a wide margin.

[Varsoon]

Would you like some pepper to go with that salt?

[Feysal]

Read this.

Then try to tell me I don't have reason to despise Saint Furcolow. I dare you.

[Varsoon]

Read that post.
Over those five years, have you ever tried to reach out to him or help him improve his play at all? Or have you just been insisting he is the worst player on site?
If it's just being hung up about what you consider to be low quality of play, the way you're going about it here doesn't help him grow at all.
It's clear that you've identified what you think makes him a poor player. You should take it upon yourself to help him become a better player. Challenge him. Inspire him. Don't be a jerk. Be awesome instead.

The way it looks to me, you've got him figured out. If that's the case, you could easily team up with him any time he is town or snuff him out any time he is scum. As a scum player, you could manipulate him to your own advantage to win. Having that sort of facility with another player doesn't make them 'bad', either. What you should be more focused on is making sure he learns from these experiences. If you just give him a hard time, then he may never learn, and then you're just as much to blame for his continued standard of play.

[Jaqen Hghar]

That's gotta be the coolest thing I've ever seen you say Varsoon!

[Radja]

Read that post.
Over those five years, have you ever tried to reach out to him or help him improve his play at all? Or have you just been insisting he is the worst player on site?
If it's just being hung up about what you consider to be low quality of play, the way you're going about it here doesn't help him grow at all.
It's clear that you've identified what you think makes him a poor player. You should take it upon yourself to help him become a better player. Challenge him. Inspire him. Don't be a jerk. Be awesome instead.

The way it looks to me, you've got him figured out. If that's the case, you could easily team up with him any time he is town or snuff him out any time he is scum. As a scum player, you could manipulate him to your own advantage to win. Having that sort of facility with another player doesn't make them 'bad', either. What you should be more focused on is making sure he learns from these experiences. If you just give him a hard time, then he may never learn, and then you're just as much to blame for his continued standard of play.

If anyone feels the need to inspire me, feel free to contact me

[Kaboose]

Radja I'm so happy you have a different picture because I used to think that dude had like a lazer on his head or something pointed at me.

[singersigner]

rereading sections of the game I feel like town really shld have rallied around singer a bit more

<3

I think I'm resigned to no one actually listening to me when I'm right and thinking I'm scum if I'm wrong, lol.