Open 446: C9++ (Avast! Viruses!) - GAME OVER

[solidstate]

As far as I see, nothing is proven. You're trying to hint at (it feels like to me) doc + 1 shot doc with your whole 'useless past tonight' comment. A 1-shot claim is REALLY weak since its utterly impossible to back up.

[Azusa Nakano]

It's provable by the existence of a T1 role.

Applejack isn't town and your farcical cases to defend someone who long ago gave up trying to defend her opinions with logic (hint: because there isn't any substance to them) is noted.

Nope. I admit I first misread Dash's post a bit, and I suck at setup speculation (probably because I haven't actually played this game in ever), but I still see roles there that aren't completely confirmable.

And I don't give a damn about how frustrated Equinox is or how logically based her vote is. She's still town.

Somebody, sum up a case against Equinox in a single post. Freaking convince me. Because thus far it's been really weak.

Also, do you believe I'm scum with Apple? I'm curious.

Preedit: I was assuming one-shot doc or one-shot Roleblocker. Which given the possible existence of a Mafia Roleblocker, is also not confirmable.

[solidstate]

Who is Equinox? Please stick to primary names not alt names or whatever, for those of us who aren't site veterans.

[McStab]

Azusa.

He claimed my role is unconfirmable. It's largely confirmable through the existence of a T1 role.

For example, let us say I hypothetically claimed T2 One Shot Roleblocker. If, as the game progresses/a massclaim happens we discover there is no Roleblocker, then I am instantly found as scum and lynched.


As for the other comment, he's defending someone who's spent the last three pages talking about how she only wants to lynch me because she is supposedly still SOOOO outraged at my actions that she doesn't care about logic or reason. I don't think she would disagree with me on that statement; and I don't know anyone who is genuinely so distraught by me simply predicting that she was going to vote for me (which she went on to do) that they will suspend all abstract thought for two-three days. So, I conclude it's a scum appeal to emotion because she can't rationally justify her vote and persistence on me.

[McStab]

The case on Applejack is through associative links with RBd (and you are quickly joining those ranks as well), her fake Appeal to Emotion, her admittance of using tactics that are logically poor play, her bullheadedness in pursuing a wagon that at this point has degenerated into pure survivalist behaviour as opposed to any real scumhunting, and her lack of genuine thought processes or equal application of skepticism to other players.

All of those are scum behaviours, and when combined, it's pretty blatantly obvious she's scum.

[inte]

i saw what you were doing but you can't point out you're doing it. it makes it wifom-y

zzz

@solidstate

your logic is ass. 3 of us have firsthand seen how easily the massclaim plan can be manipulated to defeat town (the winner of the game was actually bitmap on a technicality and very bad play by town)

none of us want anything to do with it

No, no, I'm not calling McStab obtuse and stubborn. I already called him even worse things, which you decided was fake. I'm saying I'll be obtuse and stubborn because, frankly, I fucking hate this game, and getting lynched on Day 1 in this game wouldn't make me bat a lash. (Sorry, yabbaguy.)

my bad, i misread. doesn't change the fact that you're scum

CHOO! CHOO! AtE TRAIN AHEAD. if you really hate this game, get the fuck out

Also, McStab's cageyness about his role is hilarious. There's only 2 roles he can be claiming and scum will pretty much want them dead.

THANK YOU.

Also, the Applejack wagon is so obviously scumdriven it's not even funny. I won't go as far as AJ, but I will admit that I have completely failed as a scumhunter this game if AJ flips scum.

This game is frustrating me to no end. McStab's wagon has dissipated based on a nonclaim that is not neccessary provable, and has been scummy all damn game. Meanwhile, AJ, who has been town all game, is being wagoned for almost no freaking reason. The case on AJ is just utter nonsense.

its not. my two town reads are on this wagon.

your ability to not see her obvious bullshit is ass

as town, we need this wifom to try to throw off scum. two claimed PRs in a day doesn't help any more than one and a half

You're not above Yoshi, no, because otherwise they're playing Doctor WIFOM and could waste their NK. After that you're next, as far as I can tell.

yoshi is going to protect seiklops no matter what. atm, there is no chance that anyone else will need it

It's provable by the existence of a T1 role.

Applejack isn't town and your farcical cases to defend someone who long ago gave up trying to defend her opinions with logic (hint: because there isn't any substance to them) is noted.

Who are you talking to, and expand on this a bit?

obviously azusa. while i can deal with not wanting to lynch cartographer, this applejack nonsense is just ass

[DoomYoshi]

I bet nacho is just going to drop out rather than read all this game.

So both inte and applejack decided this game sucks... You two should chill out, it's only day 1, town has a good chance of winning still. Inte, you should practice your rhetoric. I am not sure what you are trying to say half the time.

I am not seeking your approval, I am just pointing out to you how bs the claims of "opportunistic" were. Voting someone for doing something scummy isn't exactly opportunistic - it's what I consider proper play.

I don't think I am revoting today. Not going to support an applejack lynch, and probably not going to lynch. Demon core is likely scum. And yea, I know it's opportunistic to say that the player not even here is scum, but deal with it.

P-EDIT: I want a claim from mcstab. Will revote if necessary.

[inte]

the game doesn't suck. 3/4th its players suck

[DoomYoshi]

Grrr. Maybe i don't want a claim from mcstab. Going to bed now. Deal with it in the morning.

[DoomYoshi]

Reminder from the rules:

-Basic civility is expected of all players. You are probably going to argue, but that does not give you the right to be jerks to each other on a personal level.

[McStab]

If I've overstepped those bounds, I apologize, but I really don't think I've made any direct personal attacks. The main thing that seems to have garnered Applejack's supposed offence is predicting she was going to vote me, which she did. I certainly haven't taken any personal offence at any of the comments made at me.

[Azusa Nakano]

Who is Equinox? Please stick to primary names not alt names or whatever, for those of us who aren't site veterans.

My apologies. I'm starting to not think clearly, but given how close we are to deadline and everything that's going on, I don't want to get off at the moment. Applejack=Equinox. I just stated it because that's what I know her as, and she mentioned it way back when.

@Yoshi- Oh. My. God. NO. We are not no-lynching today. I will vote Applejack over that, as much as I really don't want to.

McStab, I will not respond to your points at the moment, just because I am far too emotionally charged ATM to do so. I will apologize for misconstruing Solidstate's post, however.

Okay, inte.

its not. my two town reads are on this wagon.

And my scumreads are on this wagon. I'm kind of obligated to put my reads above yours, particularly when I think you're scum.

your ability to not see her obvious bullshit is ass

I'm glad your joining the camp that thinks ad-homs and stating things as absolutes helps your argument somehow.

@McStab- Although I'm a bit frustrated with you, you haven't directly broke those rules. Inte came closer, though.

[DoomYoshi]

I ain't pointing fingers. Just reminding people that it is in the rules. I have thick skin, but don't want to see our party prematurely end due to modkill or somethIng.

[solidstate]

To clarify: When I say impossible to prove, I don't mean that the existence of the role is impossible to verify throughout the course of the game. In an open setup, with enough flips, we should be able to deduce the entire setup.

I mean you can claim 1-shot doc and then go 'oops I got roleblocked sorry guys' when your heal target dies and we end up with no info until you die. Which might be a null observation, but its how I see that implied claim.

[inte]

i take AtE more offensively than someone calling me a fucktwatniggerass. name calling over the internet is expected.

AtE is cheap. it fucks with a lot of people's ability and isn't even really a real fucking point. look at azusa for the most ready example

i will get mod replaced/killed before i let this travesty happen.

I'm glad your joining the camp that thinks ad-homs and stating things as absolutes helps your argument somehow.

i've already said that i can't put together a good argument in writing.
its not even ad hominem. ad hominem is when you attack their character e.g. inte is from dumfuckistan, therefore he is wrong, or inte is black, therefore he is wrong
i wasn't even saying you're an ass. i'm saying that your reads are ass

[Rainbowdash]

Ok then. Scum MS is taking major risk with that type of claim, if he claimed T1 it would have been unmerciful lynch.

unvote
Vote Cart

Not voting AJ, not voting solid, not really liking MS wagon right now (would vote MS over solid). Really no other spot to vote.

[McStab]

@RBD: I believe there is currently no votes on Cartographer, I'm at L-3, and AJ is L-2. So as much as I appreciate the unvote on me, it's not particularly helpful.

[inte]

pffft ahahahaa i am so getting nk'd tonight

[McStab]

To clarify: When I say impossible to prove, I don't mean that the existence of the role is impossible to verify throughout the course of the game. In an open setup, with enough flips, we should be able to deduce the entire setup.

I mean you can claim 1-shot doc and then go 'oops I got roleblocked sorry guys' when your heal target dies and we end up with no info until you die. Which might be a null observation, but its how I see that implied claim.

Well if that happens then it happens, but if we can deduce the entire setup, then you should be able to tell whether I am legitimately what I eventually (when we do massclaim, assuming I even live that long) claim to be.

[seilkops]

Join us RBD, and lynch somepony.

[Applejack]

Okay. I've clearly lost any control I ever had of my impulses here, and I have better things to do than to waste energy hating on a game that I am refusing to replace out of due to sheer stubbornness. Lynch me or whatever; when I flip town, I fully expect McStab to die so that I can cuss him out again in the graveyard QuickTopic. If neither McStab nor I die today, I am replacing out on Day 2 because hell will have to freeze over before I even consider continuing.

If you want to call

that

appeal to emotion, why, yes, it is, and let me preempt you by suggesting that you eat some choice morsels and then kiss the floor so you don't have to waste your breath.

Reads and explanations follow.

Azusa Nakano: Elmo TeH AzN's conduct at the beginning of Day 1 was town, and Azusa Nakano has not done anything to change that read. She laid out her thought process in full when she replaced into the game, and she's kept up the trend of transparency since. Yeah, I'll just sing praises of Azusa Nakano; you were expecting it anyway.

Bitmap: Probably town... unfortunately. Bitmap's reaction to Rainbowdash and subsequent reaction to me seem more like it'd come from town than scum. He's also actually doing things in this game despite not being very straightforward. Not exactly sure how Bitmap's meta is typically, but I'll just leave it at this. That said, take a very close look at Bitmap if Cartographer flips scum at any point; there's something that Siveure DtTrikyp did that might be suggestive of a pairing with Bitmap.

Cartographer: I explained this a while ago -- he took offense when he wouldn't have due to the mindset that scum work with when they're playing. That said, I'm not sure why he voted McStab when he really wanted to lynch Rainbowdash, but you lot can work that one out.

D3f3nd3r: He needs to die at some point, but he's more likely town than not, just a gut feeling here.

Demon Core: Demon Core's behavior at the beginning of the game felt genuine. Furthermore, if I am correct in guessing Demon Core's identity, Demon Core's paranoia of me is appropriate, and I didn't get a sense that it was faked both of the times I went through the thread. I don't remember much else, admittedly, but I'm fairly sure Demon Core is town here.

DoomYoshi: Probably town? All I've got on him is that he really, really reminds me of when I played in my second non-replacement game, and I was town there. His hop to McStab was lazy, and I'm not sure why he brought up his old lurking case when, in fact, McStab wasn't lurking at the time but was V/LA. There was also his pushing of McStab to give him a wall to which he would respond; DoomYoshi's pretty new, and newbie scum wouldn't be very excited about responding to case walls.

inte: ...makes me foam at the mouth. Anyway, he actually responded to my question, which is good points, except I haven't had the chance to analyze it. Through a surface glance, though, he seems to actually have reasons for why he thought the McStab wagon was a "shit wagon," though I didn't like that it had to take more than one attempt to get him to spill his reasoning. If McStab is scum, inte's probably scum with him for trying to launch a counterwagon; on the flip side, that'd be fairly brazen. Not sure what inte would be in the weird event that McStab flips town.

Nachomamma8: Bleh? His back and forth on inte seems town-ish, but he's since vanished.

Rainbowdash: Refer to the post where I responded to Bitmap.

solidstate: Ask Azusa Nakano or Rainbowdash when the time comes. Personally, I've gone back and forth on him; there are times when he posts well-reasoned material, and there are times where he deflects or post something else weird. Right now, I'm leaning town, but I'm not exactly objective considering where his vote is. Anyway, the tell's fairly strong, in my opinion, so if Azusa Nakano and Rainbowdash mysteriously vanish before solidstate's alignment can be revealed, then that's a fairly good hint.

A grand total of 2 scum reads that must be linked -- inte, McStab -- and a gazillion town reads. I didn't have a very good grip on this game while I was still not flailing around like a horrible mess, and I most definitely don't now. Good luck, I guess.

With that, I'm out, since I shouldn't be posting here if all I am going to post is vitriol. If you have questions, I probably won't answer, sorry.

Preview edit: To those of you suggesting that I should not have taken offense to McStab's comment, I... had a bunch of words and they went nowhere. I could be condescending and say you'll probably understand when someone tries that on you, but McStab's suggestion that I'm oversensitive is an easier one to explain, so let's go with that. Besides, this isn't the first time I've blown up emotionally in a game. I certainly hope it'd be the last, as I'll pick my battles better in the future, but that's not relevant here.

[Azusa Nakano]

I mean you can claim 1-shot doc and then go 'oops I got roleblocked sorry guys' when your heal target dies and we end up with no info until you die. Which might be a null observation, but its how I see that implied claim.

That's basically how I see it too. And obviously one-shot RB would keep you alive until we massclaim, which means at least one more day. And if there is an RB, it's a gamble that could pay dividends for a while, at least.

Applejack's frustration isn't even why I perceive her to be town. Do I consider it genuine? Yes. Is it a strong point in her favor? ... Not really. The amount of townie points it grants her are incredibly small. It's the rest of her play that I really feel is pro-town. The cases feel genuine, the analytical nature of the posts makes me feel like she's really thinking about the game and isn't just manufacturing reads, her pressure on Prolapsed Brain to actually provide content so that Applejack doesn't have to lynch them, instead of simply letting it slide and then making them an easy target earlier on makes much more sense if Applejack is town, I feel that she provided solid defenses against Carto's arguments, the way that Applejack unvoted Carto after believing that her question was answered felt much more like a townie mindset to me than a scum mindset.

There's the reasons I think Applejack is town. Please stop putting words into my mouth as to why I do. The only thing I dislike about Apple is the lack of claim in the last post. But if Apple is just giving up, I can see her doing that either way.

I swear I'll get to you McStab, but I'm trying to cut down on the lengthy posts.

... I was going to flesh out a case as to why Carto would be a better lynch than Apple... then that preedit happened. I want to know: is there NO chance of getting a McStab lynch. None? Because Apple is town. But if this is all I'm going to get... sigh.

Unvote

I'll either put Apple at L-1 or hammer if the answer is no.

[Nachomamma8]

this just keeps getting more and more confusing

[Nachomamma8]

I sort of like it, but god damn.

[inte]

right. counterwagon = autoscum and town NEVER defends town reads. ever