Mafia 110: Mafia in Hell, Michigan (Tied.)

[Ythan]

1 It is a loaded question because you're portraying my earlier statement as a recommendation to lynch scummy town. This is obviously a misbegotten question.

3 I was asking for clarification. I said so. In my next post.

4 SPECIFICS. I'm not going to keep guessing at what you're asking me on every line.

5 Why is confirmation bias suspect when you're ignoring other cases and haven't made one and it's day 3?

6 And thanks for not a response.

7 The preceding. Question.

8 You obviously know where you're going to take it, shouldn't take you too long.

[Ythan]

Can mith see IPs?

Making new accounts is not illegal, my friend.

Mods deserve to know who's joining their games. If you had trouble getting into this one thanks to your anti-town behavior then yeah.

[Ythan]

You should know that owning up to scummy behavior and apologizing, while appreciated, does not aid you in your situation. Nothing personal. You still look scummy.

[Ythan]

Gut read, then I decided to try out my new method which unfortunately never reached you because you're player 14 and we have enough for today and it's a major brain drain. You're not going to be lynched today, you are not the scummiest player.

[Ythan]

Can mith see IPs?

Making new accounts is not illegal, my friend.

Mods deserve to know who's joining their games. If you had trouble getting into this one thanks to your anti-town behavior then yeah.

I had no trouble. Just felt guilty.

I misunderstood, my mistake.

[Ythan]

You're scummy but you're not jb/beater/lowell scummy. Additionally, you don't need to try to look pro-town. As you learn and implement pro-town behaviors you're look pro-town.

[Ythan]

Buddying you?

[Ythan]

I can't follow any of this. Is there seriously a case on me? Or are folks just messing around.

Is this because you don't read the thread?

[Ythan]

Buddying you?

This was aimed at DS by the way. I'd like to know if he's trying to insinuate that I'm buddying him.

[Ythan]

Quick vote Lowell before you go!

You did this to horror and NS. It's like you don't just push wagons but you practically strap a jet pack onto them. For some reason I can't read half your posts in this game without feeling like you're in a hurry. Why is that?

I don't know why you can't.

I point out that you're rushing lynches and not only do you not answer my question but you post fluff instead?

FoS: Ythan

It's not a meaningful or important question and no matter the answer it will never lead anywhere. This day has been stalling and needs to pick up and move.

[Ythan]

unvote

Unless anyone plans on introducing anything new can we please just pick one person to lynch.

[Ythan]

I find Lowell an acceptable lynch.

[Ythan]

Not Ray, ANYTHING would be "more useful" than that. Is there a point? Also holy shiiit white screen that is so cool.

[Ythan]

As I just said in the post to which you responded, the day's stalling. We have great options for a lynch and nothing new is coming to light. Now stop pretending there's a possibility that I'm scum and help with the consolidation.

[Ythan]

Which options are you talking about what makes them great?

Lowell, Dragonfly, jb, DS are good. Maybe Ray but probably not today.

Not Ray, ANYTHING would be "more useful" than that. Is there a point? Also holy shiiit white screen that is so cool.

huhwhat

The point is that I would like to be able to iso you. And also I think it's important (mostly for you) to realize how much you've been spamming the thread...Your posts make up nearly 1/3 of the thread...this is not good...

Between actually contributing to the thread and knowing the difference between spamming and posting a lot I think I'm being a fair bit more constructive here than you. And that does not at all seem to have been the purpose of your graphs. They're just graphs with no explanation.

[Ythan]

EBWOP, Ray. Information over analysis. Please explain how my lots of posts are bad. Instead of just continuing to talk about nothing in order to show up in the thread from time to time. Talk about something relevant, like an actual case.

[Ythan]

Does anyone want a lynch today outside of jb or Lowell?

[Ythan]

I'm also burnt out on isolation. Would you find anyone outside of those two preferable with the info you have now?

[Ythan]

Seriously people, stop being idiots. Lynch someone who isn't me. I'm actuallly

trying

this game. You know how rare that is for me?

There's plenty of room on the rik bandwagon, and I'd happily lynch jb as well.

Then contribute something further from the ATE fluff end of the spectrum than this.

[Ythan]

I don't know where you're getting your definitions. An action isn't scummy if it isn't something scum do.

[Ythan]

Mole is actually making a point of addressing the accusations against him. He shouldn't be the lynch for today.

[Ythan]

Relevance to exactly what's going on?

[Ythan]

There has been enough summing up.

[Ythan]

I didn't want him to flounder, I was mocking his inability to properly answer questions.

[Ythan]

The only thing you can offer that will decrease your own likelihood for a lynch is a real reason why you're either not as scummy or not as beneficial a death.

[Ythan]

And that's pman's first post since the nineteenth.

[Ythan]

I'm not happy with any of DS's responses to pressure.

[Ythan]

How fortunate that you got into a game with so many overtly scummy players for the vig to spend his or her kills on.

[Ythan]

If anything is frustrating it's the slowdown. That's why I'd like to see some consolidation. Also, deadline coming up.

[Ythan]

What makes my "chainsaw defense" "a connection with crypto"?

Makes perfect sense to me.

[Ythan]

That's the gist more or less plus loaded language.

[Ythan]

That's the gist more or less plus loaded language.

loaded language?

Loaded language.

[Ythan]

Whether or not the case was weak has no place in whether or not you were chainsaw defending.

[Ythan]

Those are questions for your accuser.

[Ythan]

Yeah guys, if you didn't stretch the thread out to 84 pages we wouldn't be having this problem.

[Ythan]

Neto, I don't want you to think I was in any way disagreeing with your idea.

[Ythan]

Come onnn. Everyone post your favorite lynches for today in order in your next post plz.

[Ythan]

I want everyone to know that if you're not helping you're probably scum.

[Ythan]

I'm going to go ahead and

vote Lowell

[Ythan]

If you'd settle for Lowell, keep in mind that the DL is before you get back.

[Ythan]

I forgot what Rike's case on me is about. Is that because it's been so long since he's posted or because there was never anything there to begin with? Selective scumhunting etc.

[Ythan]

Ythan: opinion of JB?

More than 50% scummy.

All right guys, I'm going to cut the BS. I'm expecting to get some flack for this from those of you who think antitownness = scummy, but I think this is worth pointing out.

It's more that you are scummy and it's unsafe for us to believe you of all people as the accused.

I really don't like how people are pulling "connections with known scum" out of thin air and/or their butts. You're turning innocent actions into apparently voteworthy behavior. This is stupid!

It is a mistake to take it personally when someone uses this sort of evidence against you. Sometimes the best way to play to win is to just look at the odds.

Rike you can get indignant toward other players when you do something pro-town yourself. Right now you're behaving like scum behaves. If you have a point to make then make it.

[Ythan]

You seem flustered.

[Ythan]

Rike

is

acting

quite

scummy now that he's posting.

[Ythan]

Why are you waiting for Lowell?

[Ythan]

It's not going to happen because you can't coherently argue that it should. You're not doing much better on farside but at least you're trying.

[Ythan]

I can't tell if Rike is being more scummy, anti-town, or a bitch.

Ythan.

watch that come back and bite me in the butt.

omnomnom

[Ythan]

Who did what to whom?

[Ythan]

His insults are not chauvinistic at least.

[Ythan]

He's condescending and rude in addition to not contributing anything or accounting for himself. Scratch "in addition to", how about "in order to avoid".

[Ythan]

Posting fake suspicions against me is an amateur scum mistake. You'll never get me lynched, a nightkill is a much better option.

[Ythan]

I am more active as town I think. I didn't like the cases people were making on SK day one because his vote changes seemed reasonable to me, and the people pushing that angle did not.

[Ythan]

The longer it went on the more it strained plausibility. Also I was focusing on someone scummier day one.

[Ythan]

Scummy in that he called him VT rather than claimed VT. That's not a casual slip of the tongue.

[Ythan]

Rike are you seriously still voting for me.

[Ythan]

lol

Got a soft to sell?

[Ythan]

Defensiveness is not, and I think this is a general consensus, a good priority. Not only will it not help town, but even if you are town it will make players suspect you when you don't hunt but only defend.

[Ythan]

Does anyone have any more analysis they plan to do today and if not why is it not night yet.

[Ythan]

To everyone who plans on still being here tomorrow, aiding in the consolidation is pro-town and hindering it either actively or by not participating is anti-town.

[Ythan]

Optimal humor will be achieved by lynching someone who just replaced in and read 88 pages for nothing.

[Ythan]

No more unbroken promises!

Forget what I said about optimal humor.

[Ythan]

Certain players of near lurker-level posting may be contributing to that.

[Ythan]

Of all of the cases floating around you make up one on me. I said this was an amateur scum mistake. Play to your win condition by making some attempt to conceal your alignment.

[Ythan]

Fly, could you give us some insight into the other cases? If you can explain how not a one of them is better than a vote on me then you're in the clear.

[Ythan]

Because of probably the most selective case I've ever seen.

unvote vote Dragonfly13

[Ythan]

Town players, any thoughts on the possibility of a vanilla goon taking a dive to draw attention away from a scum PR?

[Ythan]

Ythan: I'm not a straw man, so don't make me out to be one.

I took a break to relax before bed and I come back just before I hit the pillow for the weekend to find you asked me the following:

Fly, could you give us some insight into the other cases? If you can explain how not a one of them is better than a vote on me then you're in the clear.

I have not read far enough into the game to give as much insight as I would like, but I will ISO them immediately after I finish catching up upon my return. I'm surprised at how confident you are that I'm scum; you're so confident, in fact, that you go so far as to describe what type of scum I so

obviously

am. Just wait until I've caught up. Then you might show me a little more respect. I can understand the lack of it as probably due to my inactivity thus far, but you're not looking any better to me by saying I'm stupid.

Until Sunday.

So you haven't seen any serious cases because you haven't looked at any of the scummy players in iso. And yet you have somehow read me in iso and decided to vote for me. No part of this is believable.

Ythan: Your OMGUS is showing.

No it actually isn't. Although giving Fly a shred to latch onto might be productive.

[Ythan]

I find all claims regarding my "need to control the conversation" to be a poor alternative to anything that makes sense.

[Ythan]

Or, Lowell, why do you think jb is a better shot today?

[Ythan]

And one more thing, when I'm not rushing through an essay I'll be sure to look up how town you've found Beater in the past.

[Ythan]

And one more thing, when I'm not rushing through an essay I'll be sure to look up how town you've found Beater in the past.

Have fun with that. Pretty much defending him is the reason everyone thinks I'm scummy.

How many players did you just misrep in this post?

unvote vote Lowell

I voted Fly to give my attack teeth. Back to you now.

[Ythan]

Odds that if Lowell or Beater is scum they both are? I say high high high.

[Ythan]

Not the same stupid argument, accusations by a number of players that you never properly answered. Brushing them off again isn't going to help. And your mud regarding my posting is meaningless fluff because you want me dead but can't form a case.

[Ythan]

And one more thing, when I'm not rushing through an essay I'll be sure to look up how town you've found Beater in the past.

Have fun with that. Pretty much defending him is the reason everyone thinks I'm scummy.

Really who said that?

"everyone"

[Ythan]

He switched to a 'better prospect' with no votes on him?

[Ythan]

The only thing that detracts from a vote on any of a handful of scummy players in this game is how many there are to choose from.

[Ythan]

Mod wouldn't let someone who's going to explain themselves replace RF and RFWM.

[Ythan]

Part one, scumvenient. Part two, you have no room to call anyone else lazy, especially if you can't even back it up. Part three, you're still spouting nonsense about me. And again your accusations always lack teeth without any reasoning.

[Ythan]

Are you going to make another post addressing more than the first three words?

[Ythan]

Lowell it's not even my post that you only partially addressed. You skipped over a few to get to that point. If you're town just be happy that your flip will clear up the confusion you caused town with your play.

[Ythan]

Ythan's complaining about short responses? Really?

Is that what I said or was it that he only responded to three words of the post?

[Ythan]

Examples please.

[Ythan]

I believe she indicated that she was aware that he was not quoting the true win condition.

[Ythan]

Crypto cleared Beater based on Beater's alleged close paraphrasing of the town win condition. Farside was the first to point out that it was not any kind of close paraphrasing.

[Ythan]

Trim it down to just scum tells?

[Ythan]

'Barely touches on question dodging' in that it doesn't touch on question dodging?

[Ythan]

First off, we gotta unvote the new subs. They just got here and they can't make valid defenses for those they replaced. I say we wait and see if scummy behavior carries over to a replacement, and at that point, I won't be the only one for it.

So kindly unvote Nachomama and Dragonfly. If not, kindly explain why not. This should include an eloquent attack on the prospective scum in question.

This is no way makes them any less a valid lynch. As for 2,227, what are you asking?

[Ythan]

'Barely touches on question dodging' in that it doesn't touch on question dodging?

Other than misinterpreting the definition of 'barely', this post is moot. Wtf does it have to do with anything?

Did you read the preceding posts before the ones that came after?

[Ythan]

Nothing About Question Dodging

That barely touches on your bandwagoning, buddying, and

question dodging

, but I'm not making full blown case to lynch you yet. And though it should go without saying:

FoS: Ythan

[Ythan]

A hurry up post that is a perfectly valid answer to your question, Unsight.

DS, replacing does not make the slot a less valid lynch. You can continue to argue that we should give them some time to post, which is what you're actually doing, but what you can not do is pretend that replacing makes the slot less scummy. 2227, Lowell has consistently and baselessly defended the Beater slot throughout the game.

[Ythan]

It's not moot, you are failing to provide any reasoning behind the argument you're making. Repeating it will not help. As far as the questions, you're riding farside's coattails here. You literally offer nothing new on that front, you might as well cite her rather than examples leeched from her. As far as rushing lynches, no you're making that up. Hide your opportunism.

[Ythan]

This is no way makes them any less a valid lynch.

Right now it does;

[Ythan]

I said

hide your opportunism

, not announce it. And yes it's a denial, your case is bad and half made up. Are you worried I'm BP or something? Just kill me tonight rather than pretending you can get me lynched.

[Ythan]

Ythan

less Valid lynch =/= less scummy player

You need to try harder to keep your argument straight between posts.

[Ythan]

We got an extension for the replacements. Do we need it? Debatable.

[Ythan]

I'm so what? Do you want me to baby you when you post a bad, opportunistic, selective case against me?

[Ythan]

You've rushed many a lynch, too.

So I'm making it up that you've been pushing lynches?

Is this a typo or are you that bad.

[Ythan]

I'm not stopping you from doing what you've been building up to. It went from a second to five minutes. Just go ahead and provide some content if you're got it.

And pay attention and learn what words mean, push and rush are completely different things if you didn't notice the P and the R.

[Ythan]

repitition isnt bad.

Repetition is saying the same thing two times. Judging by the fact that you've said you're going to provide evidence of me pushing a lynch

again

since that post you probably do mean pushing. Which isn't what you said before. How clear do I have to make this for you to catch on.

Interrogators do it all the time, for many reasons. I'm not that, but its fun to roleplay.

Ug. Play the game and post your content.

No need to rage b/c I ask something twice- just motion that you noticed it, and imply your rejection or approval.

Rage? How am I raging? Get to the relevant and verifiable stuff you're promising.

[Ythan]

The time lapse and stalling indicates for me that he's building this case from scratch.

[Ythan]

Before I start:

push: to move with force

rush: to urge to an unnatural speed

From now on, when I say these, this is what I mean.

They're two different words that you're nevertheless used interchangeably. You asked me if I had rushed lynches and then set off to find evidence of me pushing lynches to refute me.

[Ythan]

They are not nearly interchangeable. They have here two entirely different meanings and in this specific context entirely different implications for the discussion. Rushing a lynch is pushing it but pushing a lynch is not rushing it. Why am I have to explain this?

What browser do you use?

[Ythan]

Even if you're not aware, it should be plain to you that your explanation is wrong. You said that rushing must be pushing. This would be valid if I had said I wasn't pushing and then said I was only rushing. But it's the opposite of this. And so your explanation is as incorrect as the initial statement itself.

[Ythan]

Don't pretend that this is about you being wrong and me being right. That is just a coincidence. This is about you pursuing me with misinformation easily pointed out.

[Ythan]

You mentioned the trouble with months. Am I to take it that you're still looking something up? Something other than the subject of your little mistake?

[Ythan]

So instead of scumhunting..

[Ythan]

Focusing too much? Or, I think you're a liar.

[Ythan]

It's not bickering, he says there's a case coming.

[Ythan]

What is that even intended to mean?

[Ythan]

While you're sorting that question out I've got another. You seem to be drifting from point to point as none find traction. Now you say you're not even hunting scum in this pursuit. What exactly is it that you're doing?

[Ythan]

Furthermore, my larger point is not, "Ythan is scum"; closer to "Ythan is wrong in saying that he did not do these things."

First of all this. Are you not hunting or are you lying.

If you said that it would be rushing. If I said something completely different, that's another story entirely. If all you're going to do is make up anecdotes that didn't occur and support another player's case with that, what, again, are you doing?

[Ythan]

Ythan, I'm focusing on the same point I started on when Unsight made an attack against you earlier tonight.

In order to...?

[Ythan]

Saying that you're not scumhunting does, or it means that you're lying.

[Ythan]

They don't contradict each other, only when you incorporate the rest of the conversation. You need to clear up exactly what it is you

are

doing or hang.

[Ythan]

I already answered you. The least you can do, Scribe.

[Ythan]

First of all those are pointless questions that offer no useful substance to town. Second of all we're on page 93. Third, why are you doing this now, even ignoring the fact that it's pointless to do at all?

[Ythan]

I answered your question. If you wanted more than that you should have asked instead of assuming I'd read your mind.

[Ythan]

As long as you drag this on without contributing anything worthwhile to the thread I'm going to call your play pointless.

[Ythan]

If you said that it would be rushing.

If you need help, this would be a

yes

.

[Ythan]

This is a scumtell.

Deny, scumtells require more analysis than a general statement like this.

This is him either trying to make the town make a hasty decision, or bussing a scumpal.

Insufficient information in your brief made up anecdote.

Rushing the town is an antitown thing to do.

Deny, anti-town also requires further analysis than can be taken from the information you've provided.

I'm going somewhere with this. I promise.

Deny, you're making it up as you go along.

[Ythan]

ythan and DS if you do not stop with this spamming argument I will seriously find a way to get the mod to warn you both. This is why it is taking f@#ing forever to get a replacement to read a game.

I like you and I don't want to get personal is but don't call it spam if it's not spam. Find a better word if you're going to make calls like this.

[Ythan]

Christ he's gone back to asking other players to do this for him.

[Ythan]

He asks the first player with a pulse if I'm doing what he's accusing me of doing. He says he's having trouble citing it. He obviously is scrambling to support an accusation he made with no evidence, and he's gone quite a long time with nothing to show.

[Ythan]

Sigh. Ythan, thank you for cooperating, eventually, barely.

Save the soft shit and give me something relevant. If you wanted more you should have been clearer in the first place so don't whine about it now.

This would have gone better if I could do it myself, but I already explained why I could not.

Do you mean can't support a case you still insist on pushing?

I'll wait for computer access.

I won't let you down after this arduous 30-60 min of commitment

, but its late, and ds browsers suck and make me groggy.

My hopes are not set very high.

I'll quote the dodging and rushing and pushing tomorrow. Buenos noches.

You've got a whole twenty four hours to make something up now, so give it some teeth next time.

[Ythan]

You keep saying there's evidence on this case you've been pushing but you haven't offered three words of it.

[Ythan]

You say there's a lot but after all this you can't give us anything? If you're so sure you could find some then you've been wasting your time more than even your posts today indicate. Asking the other players to search my posts to support the case you can't make yourself is bad play, and if by "I might do" you're just getting ready to back out of following up all this worthless nonsense then you're going to hang for it.

[Ythan]

Even if you can't find a particular post, surely you're remember specific instances if you're telling the truth. Can't you even just refer back to something?

[Ythan]

To put it more simply, if what he's doing is not playing to his win condition then it should become apparent. I don't expect that a mod would cut him the slack of keeping it hushed if that was the case.

[Ythan]

Lowell you don't even know what I'm talking about. This has nothing to do with your post count, it's about you skipping over a ton of stuff to reply to, consistently.

[Ythan]

I'm not going to give you post numbers. Read the damn thread if you're going to play the game.

[Ythan]

I'm not going to give you post numbers. Read the damn thread if you're going to play the game.

The Burden of proof is on you to prove he's scum.
I've not been following the case, but give us some post numbers and it'll make it easier for all involved.
He can reply to them, we can see if your case is a valid one.

Do you know what's going on? This isn't a case on him, it's him ignoring posts directed at him. You too, read the thread please. Not just from me.

And Lowell, using this as an opportunity to continue to ignore the thread as a whole is going to be what gets you a well-deserved lynch. And 2330 isn't ironic. It is what you're doing. You went on and on about your evidence and then have been unable to provide a single letter of it. So, two fronts on which you don't provide any content.

[Ythan]

This is what burden of proof is, mole.

http://www.mafiascum.net/wiki/index.php ... n_of_Proof

What burden of proof is not is requiring a player to address posts made against him recently or ever and also to provide support for an argument that he is unable to do to the smallest degree.

[Ythan]

Considering that you were never able to support the case to begin with you're going to want to drop it for more than "...for now." And also to let me know what suspicions you've ever had against Lowell.

[Ythan]

If you use the words contrary to what they actually mean and contrary to how they might pertain to the situation at hand then what do you expect?

[Ythan]

Then why don't you explain the connection instead of repeating your initial statement without doing such. Tell me what burden of proof has to do with this situation, aside from his lack of proof in his case which is not the issue you seem to be discussing. How does it connect to his consistent inability to address posts made against him.

[Ythan]

And I said no. He consistently skips over a handful of posts to respond to just one. He did it very shortly before I accused him of such. Go back and scroll up yourself because I'm not going to baby you.

[Ythan]

I'm the only player you attempt to paint that way during an argument and you're very selective with which arguments you choose to define as bickering, not to mention that you do so regardless of the content of such. Nothing in the post you just made indicates me as a scummy player and you just very weakly voted me jb.

[Ythan]

This just proves that pretty much everything he does is scummy and/or anti-town.

[Ythan]

Hi Nacho.

[Ythan]

And she was the first person to call him on it.

[Ythan]

Paragraph one, just because I talk about other people doesn't mean I'm intentionally obscuring any insight into my own play. Paragraph two, that's a shame. Paragraph three, point out a spe-ci-fic incidence of any argument you don't think I answered sufficiently. Part the fourth, farside is like 99% town. And fifth, you're not going to get an Ythan lynch. There are scum left in the game.

[Ythan]

@ythan- paragraph four: your being "99%" sure farside is town doesn't make buddying with her any more palatable. If anything, it makes it worse.

That said, paragraph two in 2365 is a bit of a stretch. I'm not sure, even in hindsight, that the crypto wagon was going to take off even without ythan's interference.

One, explain the scumminess of my "buddying" with farside. Two, how I was interfering with the crypto wagon and not just making a spectacle elsewhere.

Regarding your second point to Unsight, it's not OMGUS if it's unintentional, at least not if it's unintentional in the way I think you're saying.

[Ythan]

If farside is scum, do try to account for the slip incident with crypto. Kison, have you only seen cases on Lowell based on lurking?

[Ythan]

There are players much more overtly scummy than mole.

[Ythan]

I said around the time of making that list that I was working my way down from the top. The method at that time was labor-intensive and not terribly fun, and at this point in the day I don't even view it as particularly useful. Cases are on the table against a number of scummy players and some less scummy ones. It's time to just pick one.

[Ythan]

The "I like you" was really just a qualifier to precede a criticism.

[Ythan]

I don't find the push on me confusing at all. The case doesn't make any sense but the push itself does if one makes certain assumptions about the alignments of a player or two.

[Ythan]

May I add to that request and suggest that you back up your analyses.

[Ythan]

Unsight, why the complete lack of focus on overtly questionable players?

[Ythan]

How selective is your reading? There are a small number of players who would all be very good lynches today. Did you not catch that? It informs the conversation at hand.

[Ythan]

By the way, acting differently toward farside because she's town.

[Ythan]

I'll try to compile a collection of posts pertinent to any cases I've made, since it's no longer possible to do so easily in iso, when I have a bit of time.

[Ythan]

I can actually begin to do this now, though I don't know what methods will be functional and so I don't know how quickly it's going to come along. I will be solely compiling reads that I have already shared.

[Ythan]

Mole. Accusations have been leveraged against him recently but when I did my isos I didn't find him scummy. Certainly not suspicious enough to distract from those who so clearly are. For this reason, any attempt to turn the spotlight on him (or anyone else outside the probscum group) is suspicious.

[Ythan]

Lowell's just sore that I like him as an obvious lynch.

[Ythan]

You are so obtuse it makes me sad for the world.

[Ythan]

In a very serious way I believe that

anyone

attempting to make a case against me is suspect. Opportunistic, stalling, very selective, that sort of thing. Also I found a neat way to compile my suspicions but it might take a little while, I'm going page by page.

[Ythan]

An undisclosed player in this game has PMmed me and asked about the range of roles in this game.

Wasn't me. Curious who though.

Can we know this when the game is over?

[Ythan]

Are you sure you didn't cut appeal to fear earlier and then accidentally fail to cut something that would make sense in this context but fail, so that when you tried to post something here that would make sense you said appeal to fear on accident instead? Because I can't twist my mind in a way to understand that as an appeal to fear. Or maybe you mean it's a weak appeal to fear because it isn't one at all. Anyway.

I don't know about that farside/me/riddick business, I'm currently dredging the thread for meaningful things that implicate not-confirmed-town.

[Ythan]

That's not an appeal to fear. That's definitively not what an appeal to fear is. Expect me to dismiss accusations of things that didn't happen. You can say it's OMGUS if you want, even though I did explain and you'd do better to just debate the reasoning I gave, but calling it something it doesn't remotely resemble is not the proper way to do things.

[Ythan]

I meant it when I said I found it suspicious. I leave intimidation to the avatar.

[Ythan]

My take on the argument

at this moment

is that you each think the BoP is on the other. Unsight needs farside to explain how it's the same if it's the same, and farside needs Unsight to explain how it's different if it's different. Since neither is what I would call neutral, either one of you can explain.

[Ythan]

As I said, you were each approaching the question from a different direction. If she can be called evasive I believe you can too. She just caved before you did.

[Ythan]

What I don't like is how you refuse to account in your case for the fact that she as good as confirmed her town status earlier in the game.

[Ythan]

You didn't ask for links as far as I can tell, so what do you expect? I'll find the thing when I'm finished dredging but in a nutshell crypto called something a paraphrase of the town role PM and farside was the first to point out that it is not similar to the town PM.

[Ythan]

Yay town friendship.

[Ythan]

That is entirely an impossible thing to prevent. D:

[Ythan]

Can farside/Unsight/Ythan obvtown block please get some business done now?

[Ythan]

I include here the numbers of my posts raising any suspicion that I still find meaningful.

Lowell
108,335,1111,1550,1613,1646,1647,1724,1820
Dragonfly13/WRP_Beater
181,190,278,1013,1620,1627,1630,1632,1633,1634,1717,1720,1775
JBernier93
1271,1433,1535,1636,1685,1700,1799,1801,1810,1826
Rikenslope
1220,1475,1477,1482,1557
DedicatedScribe
121,130,335,826,881,896,899,1362,1370,1373,1520,1571,1574,1586,1608

I stopped around page 70. Ugh. I can build off of this later now that I have the numbers but feel free to browse for yourself.

[Ythan]

I can get behind a jb lynch today and worry about Riddick's one post tomorrow.

[Ythan]

I was excited until I hit the last line of your post. Also Rike is good too.

[Ythan]

I think she stopped because we cleared up my buddying with farside.

[Ythan]

Becoming obv town the scum is forced to kill is the best thing vanilla can do specific to their role. Someone has to die, so it's not bad luck. Being able to force scum's hand in the decision is good luck.

[Ythan]

There was a town watcher so scum would have to pick a killer. Flavor seems to indicate that it was him.

[Ythan]

Mafia NK is a faction ability and his track is a personal ability. In newbie games a lone roleblocker can do both for balance reasons. Outside of newbie games it seems to vary, but the general consensus I've seen is that one can do both.

I think there is up to one mafia kill each night, one vig kill each night, and one poisoner sk kill each night adjusted for delay.

[Ythan]

What's the relevance of who the killer was, exactly?

[Ythan]

Gotcha. If they had to pick a killer they must have known there were opposing roles that could target their killer, so that seems to be a good idea.

[Ythan]

Include Dragonfly and you've got my list. We could just settle who everyone finds acceptable and roll.

[Ythan]

Lowell
Dragonfly13, replacing WRP_Beater
JBernier93
Rikenslope
DedicatedScribe

These are good lynches for me. Please remove anyone you don't want dead today.

[Ythan]

The Rike wagon is a lot more trustworthy than those with me on Lowell's. Also, let's make a -4.

unvote vote Rikenslope

[Ythan]

Thankfully he has at least voiced suspicions against Rike in the past.

[Ythan]

He said you guys.

Addressing the bulk in a bit just wanted to point that out.

[Ythan]

A response to you, Unsight. And Rike, you're not contributing shit to the thread. Please save your NK for yourself tonight.

[Ythan]

Whine in your QT where the town can't see it.

[Ythan]

The other suspects are not as obnoxious as Rike.

[Ythan]

Do you want to wait for another vote to put you at L-1 before you claim?

[Ythan]

He doesn't seem to understand that town players can be scummy.

And I have actually compiled a case against you, you just don't bother reading because it cuts into your bitching time.

[Ythan]

I don't care about your scummy notions of me. I'm not dodging questions, I've done this shit enough this game. I trudged through a hundred pages, you can scroll up one or two. I'm

not

here to baby you. And if you can't look a couple pages back and need me to hold you hand then you can curb the attitude and I'll think about it.

[Ythan]

Blah blah blah we get it you're scum who can't read. Stop whining up the thread. Go back to lurking like before you were at L-2.

[Ythan]

Because I already did. Just like I already went over this on the same page a few posts up. If you can't do this much then you don't belong in this game.

[Ythan]

If you can't read then you can't read. Posting it again (again again) isn't going to fix you.

[Ythan]

Ok.

[Ythan]

"I can't read can someone please help me."

[Ythan]

I think he meant that he is scum.

[Ythan]

I do that when I'm scum because proper logic is not in my interest.

[Ythan]

I'd say that it varies by person but that if he got catty as town he'd probably do something townish too.

[Ythan]

No that's just what you're saying. If you were any kind of reasonable person with an interest in playing townily you'd respond to the case instead of pretending it doesn't exist.

[Ythan]

Yawn.

[Ythan]

I thought of putting something at the end of 2449 to the effect of "if the format doesn't make sense just say something" but I thought, who couldn't understand it.

[Ythan]

It's L-2.