Mini 1316 - Last Will Mafia IV (Over)

[Macrophage]

It's not unreasonable, but I do think it is scummy.

I'm not feeling good about Macro. Just because it's one day to deadline doesn't mean I have to stay on a ML.

What do you mean by this?

[LlamaFluff]

Vote Count

Macrophage (4) - Voidedmafia, Debonair Danny DiPietro, rhinox, hiplop
Lastsurvivor (4) - nachomamma8, 4nxi3ty, DCLXVI, Macrophage
Debonair Danny DiPietro (4) - Alicewondering, Sleepless Assassin, fishythefish, Lastsurvivor
Alicewondering (1) - kortul

With 13 alive it takes 7 to lynch
Deadline is April 9th, 7PM PST

[Lastsurvivor]

It's not unreasonable, but I do think it is scummy.

It's reasonable that I might focus more on defending myself, but it's also scummy? What do you mean?

What do you mean by this?

Oh, my b. I meant I'm not feeling good about a Macro lynch.

[Alicewondering]

I found DCL's point on a fishy/LS team interesting, but I don't think that this interaction comes from a scumpair, though the comment on not wanting to interact after having interaction pointed out was a bit strange. I think that it is more likely that LS is scum hopping on wagons with more momentum.

In light of someone posting about DDD-meta, I'm going to UNVOTE: DDD. I would support an LS wagon today. I think that the points that DCL has made are really good (wagonhopping most of all). I would NOT support a Macro-lynch today, so I'd advise everyone on that wagon to move your votes. It is unlikely that Macro's VT claim came from scum.

VOTE: LastSurvivor

Alice, Fishy, what would you do if Macro actually claimed to have some PR? Keep the heat on him, or go elsewhere?

It would depend on whether there was a counterclaim. I probably would have been really skeptical of Macro still, but would have unvoted just in case he were telling the truth. The reason I think Macro was town for a VT claim was that scum has no reason to claim VT after softclaiming PR. They could easily out a PR if they fakeclaimed. Unless Macro is really really clever scum, I think he's town.

why is macro still alive?????

Hiplop, do you think that the VT claim came from scum? If so, what were his motivations there?

[Fishythefish]

Just a quick check before going out with a family again, so extensive reading would be in the evening.

I don't really understand why Alice and Fishy think that after the VT claim Macro is town. I mean, the fact that scum less likely to do a VT claim doesn't instantly make this claim town. If he claimed to be some PR, would you lynch him instead? I see possible PR hunting motives here, which makes me even more suspicious of Alice (and Fishy), at the same time it means that there's chance that i am wrong about Macro after all - PR hunting on a scumbuddy isn't exactly productive.

Macrophage held the belief that a VT claim was going to equal certain death, as you can tell by the way he claimed. So, claiming non-VT was clearly a move of survival. As scum, once he had already laid that claim down, there was no reason to rescind on it at all. If he were PR hunting, then he might as well claim a specific PR, or else it would be useless. The only reason he would rescind that claim is if he didn't want to be counterclaimed, and scum who were pretty certain they were gonna die really don't give a shit about being counterclaimed.

Nacho, you got me wrong, just read again. Of course i understand that Macro isn't PR hunting after such a claim. I suspect Alice and Fishy of PR hunting, since after the VT claim from Macro they are more interested in other wagons. All others who say that they believe the claim weren't interested or pushing Macro wagon.

Alice, Fishy, what would you do if Macro actually claimed to have some PR? Keep the heat on him, or go elsewhere?

Depends on the claim. If it was both confirmable and powerful, maybe go elsewhere. But I tend towards lynching PR claims, because scum very frequently claim to be a PR.

So, you think that I and/or Alice are scum who aren't satisfied with a VT lynch? That's kind of unlikely - scum are generally happy with any town lynch. I suppose if all three wagons are town it could work.

Someone-or-other's DDD meta (he always plays like this) is noted. It's not my impression of DDD, but I may be misremembering. At any rate, with the options we've got here someone who is never going to do anything and is not going to be easy to read seems a solid lynch.

I'm sorry, but I just don't have time to read everything that's been posted. I currently don't really believe that either of the other wagons is on scum. I'll be voting LS over Macro if it comes to it.

[Lastsurvivor]

Hmm, so with Alice's vote I'm at L-2.

I won't be on tomorrow until ~7-5 hours before the deadline. If I make it to L-1, please don't hammer me before then.

[hiplop]

Hiplop, do you think that the VT claim came from scum? If so, what were his motivations there?

yes. He claimed a Power role before, got caught lying then in desperation claimed vt...do you honestly not see scum motives there? And do you honestly think scum only ever claim PR's...ugh this game

him living makes literally no sense

[Alicewondering]

yes. He claimed a Power role before, got caught lying then in desperation claimed vt...do you honestly not see scum motives there? And do you honestly think scum only ever claim PR's...ugh this game

him living makes literally no sense

He didn't claim a specific PR, so he was never caught lying. He could have easily lied and said he was a doctor or a cop, or something like that. Everyone was pretty much convinced he was scum, and he thought that claiming VT would get him killed. If so, why would he claim VT when a PR claim would save him or out a PR? I don't think scum only claim PRs, but a VT claim doesn't make strategic sense of scum in this case.

[hiplop]

that isn't how this game works.

Its like "all people 3rd on a wagon are scum", if the scum know thats what people are looking for, they aren't going to do it. The guy was blatantly testing the waters w/ PR claim, claimed vanilla when no one bit

[hiplop]

that isn't how this game works.

Its like "all people 3rd on a wagon are scum", if the scum know thats what people are looking for, they aren't going to do it. The guy was blatantly testing the waters w/ PR claim, claimed vanilla when no one bit

[Macrophage]

that isn't how this game works.

Its like "all people 3rd on a wagon are scum", if the scum know thats what people are looking for, they aren't going to do it. The guy was blatantly testing the waters w/ PR claim, claimed vanilla when no one bit

But why do you think I'm scum?

And an answer to my other question would be appreciated too.

[Voidedmafia]

Doesn't that answer your question in part?

[Macrophage]

It's an explanation for why scum would do what I did. It does in part, but I want to know how he got to the "Macro obvscum must die a horrible, horrible death!" stage.

[kortul]

Hell, before going to sleep i thought that i knew where my vote goes, to Macro. And in the morning i see the twist i didn't expect. I hate to make a choice under time pressure, when players are doing things that don't fit my read on them. Ok, my opinion on three current wagons.

Macrophage

. Even though i mostly like his behaviour (except for the Voided opinion change), i still think the slot is scummy, because of Malee/theo. That drives me crazy, since several years playing RL mafia don't teach how to deal with replacements. Answers from a Fishy and Alice didn't shift my read as well.

Lastsurvivor

. For a long time this was my strongest town read. I had some doubts after his switch from Alice - i still don't see why admitting that points are valid makes Alicewondering less scummy. And here comes a case from Nacho. It shed new light on that Alice switch, and brought into focus some older things, but i still wasn't convinced that Last is scum after rereading. His answer to my question was good and consistent with my read on him.

And in the morning i see that after Macro voted him, and agreed "with 4n's point that your recent posts are all about defending yourself and I see little effort to work out who's scum.", Last unvotes Macro and goes after DDD. What posts 565 and 560 have to do with such decision i don't understand. I see an attempt to appease Macro and at the same time switch to a more easy target atm, this move doesn't fit my town picture of Last at all, therefore Last is on a scummy side as well now.

Debonair Danny DiPietro

. As i told before, his general behaviour is the same as i remember in our game lost in the crash, but he is less active and demanding, so i suspect him a bit. Because he is absent, i think that if we lynch him now it would be more like a policy lynch, since he cannot claim, give his reads, defend, change his last will, and has less interactions then any other player in the game. Still, taking into account the deadline, this a valid lynch for me.

All three are scummy for completely different reasons, and voting each other in a circle. In other words, i am lost. Logically, lynch of Macro or Last gives us more information. Cynically, lynch of DDD gives less information but leaves in the game two more active players. I can't chose between my scum reads, but i trust my town read, and will just follow Nacho.

UNVOTE:
VOTE: Lastsurvivor

I will be able to check the forum for another 11-12 hours or so, hope the final decision will be made before. And

Lastsurvivor is at L-1

now, so give him a chance to return and speak.

[hiplop]

if needed I'll be able to hammer before deadline, i just dont get why macro is living

I have had a gut feeling on LS for a while, nothing major though.

[Rhinox]

Hey guys sorry I was out of town for the weekend and my phone died. I see that today is deadline and someone (LS?) is at L-1. I'll read up what I missed quickly and have some thoughts in a bit.

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

Sorry about being away this weekend, catching up now.

Ugh. It looks like I won't be able to get around this. I'm just a VT. I just couldn't see myself not getting lynched. What I ask is, don't just use this as an excuse to lynch me and don't write me off as scum because of my initial claim. I hope you can think about my actions and see that they come from town.

It’s certainly not the reason people should lynch you, but this “I’m totally a power role” to “lol, not really” should add to the already established points. I’m freaking amazed to see the day still going on.

What do you think of Debonair?

If he’s got a case on me he’s not pushing it; instead he keeps throwing my name out hoping someone else will just jump on board or do the work for him. Oh and look it’s worked on FtF, genius.

And now I find it funny that the player I’ve never played with and the player I’ve played with once as scum have a better handle on my meta than Fishy.

DDD, on the other hand, is shaping up to be somewhat like another funkybike. Though, there's a stronger connection between Nacho and him due to how he was hounding the former, as well as with Theo for the amished application, so his lynch would be more informative and why I'm more amicable to lynching him at deadline if necessary.

Kortul had the opposite opinion and either way it’s bullshit; has more connections or less connections is not a reason to lynch someone or spare them. If you think I’m scum, you’re wrong, but own it and don’t try to pass it off like the information you get from one lynch is really that much superior to another.

I'm still vastly prefer Macrophage to LS but I don't have a town read on LS so I don't object to his lynch especially when mine is the second alternative.

[Fishythefish]

And now I find it funny that the player I've never played with and the player I've played with once as scum have a better handle on my meta than Fishy.

Yeah, I realise that me not having a meta on you is pretty unimpressive. I tend to assume that people I've played with a lot are a bit better than they are.

I probably won't be on again before deadline - although just possibly I will very close indeed to deadline. I won't hammer, since LS is going to come back and (presumably) claim and adjust his will. Don't no lynch.

[Voidedmafia]

DDD: Well, that may be you, but if someone has better connection tells than someone else, everything else being the same one way or another, then I'd lynch the person with the better connections. While I don't really like DCL's push on LS (a few too many points are either rehashed or refuted for me to accept the entire thing, most notably the part that Nacho already tried to us; this is partly why I'm not gung-ho for an LS lynch), his play is vastly better than funky's and has more or less saved the slot from the lynch.

You ARE better than funkybike in this regard (you at least attempt to provide good content when you're available), but it's the way that you were pushing Nacho in the early game that just doesn't sit well with me, and since everyone else except Macro is sitting on enough of a town/null-read that I'm not interested in lynching them, that's why I'd lynch you over LS (I'm not including the Amished tell because that's too much of a playstyle difference to be used as part of a case unless it's used incorrectly, and you applied it correctly).

[Lastsurvivor]

I'm a VT.

I'm still thinking about whether or not I should adjust my will or if it's fine as is. So please no hammer yet.

Also, if there's any scum that has been attacking me today it's DCL. His case was the worst and the way he argued with me just seemed very scummy. Please keep him accountable to his argument tomorrow.

Also, I'm pretty sure my vote's on scum ATM.

So, yeah. Don't hammer me yet. I'm gonna look through some ISOs and figure out if I should change my will or if it's good as is.

[Rhinox]

I have no idea what to think right now :S

[Lastsurvivor]

Yeah, my will's fine. Feel free to drop the hammer.

[Rhinox]

Can we go back to lynch macro actually?

I mean, I feel pretty good about Nacho and DC but I'm just not convinced about LS as scum. DDD would be my second choice - I get his meta is same as town and scum but I don't think his play here matches closely with either of the town or scum games posted as meta evidence.

Theres been a lot of "would scum really do that?" defenses being thrown around - would scum just really give up like LS and asked to be hammered?

[Debonair Danny DiPietro]

DDD: Well, that may be you, but if someone has better connection tells than someone else,

everything else being the same one way or another

, then I'd lynch the person with the better connections. While I don't really like DCL's push on LS (a few too many points are either rehashed or refuted for me to accept the entire thing, most notably the part that Nacho already tried to us; this is partly why I'm not gung-ho for an LS lynch), his play is vastly better than funky's and has more or less saved the slot from the lynch.

I guess that's true enough but in my book there should almost always be something to seperate people, especially the people you find scummiest. And when "information" and "connections" are bandied about it feels like fabrication of arguments to support a lynch there's no reason for or to bolster a weak case.

[kortul]

*sigh* I can't stay awake so long three nights on a row, falling asleep, and Nacho is still not here. Those who are awake, please make sure that there's no no-lynch happening. And update last wills. I did.