New York 180 (Endgame)

[Grib]

Sorry, guys. I'm playing catch-up in multiple games. This'll have to wait until tomorrow, as it's nearly 5AM and I'm losing the will to be human. I swear this is my last prodge, and if it isn't, I'll request a replacement.

UNVOTE:

Since I have no idea what's happening with wagons.

[FakedBlogger]

@mod:

My vote is on elusive

[FA_Q2]

Actually, after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me so I'll just go for SilverWolf and House since I know those two have been the two players most vocally against me. Post 62 is pure fluff, a lot of ppl are buddying up to her early on. She admits she is susceptible to buddying and accepts Grib's answer without further complaint and has a defense of Grib in her last post in this game (noted for future reference based on how one of these players flip). I find it extremely interesting that she says her weakness as town is being too indecisive (she's been VERY decisive where I'm concerned this game) and she says as scum she sucks at manipulating people but yet people have been buddying up to her this game, which is extremely interesting since the reverse in both situations is happening this game. Spends a ton of time talking about games she's played with other people in this game (of which I am not one). BTW, I find it extremely interesting that I am the common target on Day 1 and yet when I look at ika's votecounts, I don't show up on many of them, which is indicative to me that though people are voting me, they're also taking them off before ika does his votecounts.

As for House, notes early on that he believes Silver is town, defends Silver when she is attacked, has a LOT of quick fly-by-night posts with not so much substance, and he and Silver have been pretty much buddy-buddy all game from the start. Not sure if this is due to alignment or just being friends though. Refuses to even consider other possibilities besides that I MUST be scum which doesn't strike me as very wise. I've played mafia long enough to know nothing is absolute until the mod posts the death scene.

Are you bothering to even check? Last vote count had seven people on your wagon, not zero.

[FakedBlogger]

Yeah House seems to be making a good case for lynching viking

What about it constitutes a good case?
What do you think of elusive?

[Kitz]

after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me

vikingfan: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingoncelt, House, FA_Q2 [L-4]

Players are voting on you, and you said having recently checked the votes you're not voted on, uhh... That's just ignorance.

WAIT A MINUTE

Not voting: TSO, Wake88, kitz

VOTE: Vikingfan

I did vote.
Just to make sure it's seen by Mod.

VOTE: Vikingfan
VOTE: Vikingfan
VOTE: Vikingfan

[SilverWolf]

Actually, after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me so I'll just go for SilverWolf and House since I know those two have been the two players most vocally against me. Post 62 is pure fluff, a lot of ppl are buddying up to her early on. She admits she is susceptible to buddying and accepts Grib's answer without further complaint and has a defense of Grib in her last post in this game (noted for future reference based on how one of these players flip). I find it extremely interesting that she says her weakness as town is being too indecisive (she's been VERY decisive where I'm concerned this game) and she says as scum she sucks at manipulating people but yet people have been buddying up to her this game, which is extremely interesting since the reverse in both situations is happening this game. Spends a ton of time talking about games she's played with other people in this game (of which I am not one). BTW, I find it extremely interesting that I am the common target on Day 1 and yet when I look at ika's votecounts, I don't show up on many of them, which is indicative to me that though people are voting me, they're also taking them off before ika does his votecounts.

As for House, notes early on that he believes Silver is town, defends Silver when she is attacked, has a LOT of quick fly-by-night posts with not so much substance, and he and Silver have been pretty much buddy-buddy all game from the start. Not sure if this is due to alignment or just being friends though. Refuses to even consider other possibilities besides that I MUST be scum which doesn't strike me as very wise. I've played mafia long enough to know nothing is absolute until the mod posts the death scene.

First, I have a hard time believing you don't know how voting and vote counts work considering you've played here before. It's clear you either are not paying attention to the game, or are feigning ignorance. The are several people on your wagon. Grib is the only unvote. I asked you to specifically say what you thought about your wagon and each person on it and you concentrated on myself and House only. I know and have played with several people in this game. Please re-look up the definition of buddying and get back to me on which posts in particular of mine are buddying someone and why or where I am actually manipulating anyone and why. In particular what do you believe my motives are?

I find it interesting that you've mostly concentrated on me in your analysis. What are your reads on anyone else in the game?

[Aeronaut]

Actually, after looking at the most recent votecount (I'm not flipping through all 24 pages at this late hour), nobody's voting for me so I'll just go for SilverWolf and House since I know those two have been the two players most vocally against me. Post 62 is pure fluff, a lot of ppl are buddying up to her early on. She admits she is susceptible to buddying and accepts Grib's answer without further complaint and has a defense of Grib in her last post in this game (noted for future reference based on how one of these players flip). I find it extremely interesting that she says her weakness as town is being too indecisive (she's been VERY decisive where I'm concerned this game) and she says as scum she sucks at manipulating people but yet people have been buddying up to her this game, which is extremely interesting since the reverse in both situations is happening this game. Spends a ton of time talking about games she's played with other people in this game (of which I am not one). BTW, I find it extremely interesting that I am the common target on Day 1 and yet when I look at ika's votecounts, I don't show up on many of them, which is indicative to me that though people are voting me, they're also taking them off before ika does his votecounts.

As for House, notes early on that he believes Silver is town, defends Silver when she is attacked, has a LOT of quick fly-by-night posts with not so much substance, and he and Silver have been pretty much buddy-buddy all game from the start. Not sure if this is due to alignment or just being friends though. Refuses to even consider other possibilities besides that I MUST be scum which doesn't strike me as very wise. I've played mafia long enough to know nothing is absolute until the mod posts the death scene.

Ugh.. Are you paying attention to the game?

Aero-I'm not giving dragon a pass because I know him and know he is lynchbait, it's because I don't see anything particularly scummy or unusual from him. That said, I'd like to see some reads from dragon on someone besides me and Aero.

Does he have a usual scumgame that you recall?

That said Aero-Have you seen anything from vikingfan that even looks remotely town and not scummy as fuck? Has he shown much interest in the game like dragon has and many of us have. Is he scumhunting at all or trying to interact with anyone? Does it seem like he's using the playing dumb card because I'm sorry but even if you haven't played here in a number of years, I have a hard time believing you don't know what RVS is. I mean c'mon. Is he trying to put our mind at ease that he couldn't possibly be scum but rather lost town? I've seen that tactic used before by scum. His post voting for dragon is weak and his use of the term bussing instead of wagoning is not exactly reassuring me he's town. What townie would mix up those two terms? And finally, most scum lynches have quite a bit of resistance where town wagons generally don't. Vikingfan is meeting a hell of a lot of resistance in the form of a dragon counter wagon.

Viking kind of reminds me off the usual D1 lynch bait player, that people jump on immediately. Think of him as Beeboy from Antartic. Basically a player who simply plays strangely, is an easy target, and everyone scumreads that person because of that. I think that Viking is probably that player, and so I've been reluctant to vote him.

Having said that though, that argument could apply to Dragon as well. I will say that I don't see viking doing a lot for the town. They're both just sort of defending themselves, and I'm not liking that Viking decided to only scum read the two people pushing most for him.

I do agree with House about information, I think. And looking at the people I'm on this wagon with, I'm not liking a lot of them, namely Boon, and I'm starting to wonder about NakedJogger and his motives.

I'm also a lot less confident lately because of ~reasons~. So eh. If I sheep you today and we're wrong, will you promise to look at Dragon tomorrow?

[Aeronaut]

Because honestly, if we keep him alive today, it's just going to be the same song and dance tomorrow.

[SilverWolf]

If I sheep you today and we're wrong, will you promise to look at Dragon tomorrow?

Yes

[vikingfan]

VC 1.0

Pisskop: acryon, ABR [L-9]

FA_Q2: Grib, Cheetory6 [L-9]

Wake88: croboss [L-10]

Shinobi: FA_Q2, dragonspawn [L-9]

T S O: Shinobi, Pisskop, SilverWolf, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Jared615 [L-5]

acryon: Naked jogger [L-10]

ABR: elusive [L-10]

Aeronaut: House, Boonskiies [L-9]

Not voting: TSO, Wake88, Klingoncelt, kitz

21 alive, 11 to lynch

(expired on 2015-02-22 00:00:00)

Mod notes: replacing croboss, ABR will be due for a prod when i get back from work if he doesnt post

At the time I made my post, I was going off this post for my votecount and I had zero votes and the mod's votecounts are what I use (no, I'm not going to bother going through a game this large to try and track votes myself).

[Aeronaut]

So when you tried to scumread House and Silver without actually reading past page 12?

[Aeronaut]

VC 1.0

Pisskop: ABR [L-10]

FA_Q2: Cheetory6 [L-10]

Wake88: croboss [L-10]

T S O: Jared615 [L-10]

acryon: Shinobi [L-10]

ABR: elusive [L-10]

vikingfan: acryon, SilverWolf, dragonspawn, Grib, Klingoncelt, House, FA_Q2 [L-4]

Dragonspawn: Boonskiies, Pisskop, Aeronaut, vikingfan, Naked jogger [L-6]

Not voting: TSO, Wake88, kitz

21 alive, 11 to lynch

(expired on 2015-02-22 00:00:00)

Mod notes: replacing croboss

Not to mention, that this was the most recent vote count...

[vikingfan]

ika(mod)

, will you please confirm that at the time I made my post, you had merely typed, 'vote count holder' there? there was NO vote count there at the time I made my post!

[T S O]

It's all right, vf, by asking the mod to do it you basically confirm it's true.

[FakedBlogger]

and I'm starting to wonder about NakedJogger and his motives.

Hey, I'm no enigma. Ain't wrapped up and don't wish to be relentlessly tunneled up the ass either, so just back off brah.

@elusive I called vikingfan lynchbait because it looks like we're lynching the guy due to being too lazy to look for someone else. It sets a bad precedent for this game, it's stalling discussion right now (which you seem to enjoy very much) and there's no info to be salvaged if he flips town, despite what others may have said.

@all I suggest we keep him (viking) and monitor his progress. He's an oldschool player and might have interesting perspectives on future developments if he shakes off the dust.

I sure as hell don't like people screaming "counterwagon, COUNTERWAGON! OMG SAVE THE WOMEN AND CHILDREN!?!" before we have a flip to put it in context. Scumhunting by statistical votedynamic is for the birds, we need to look for scummy posts and dragon seems to have a clandestine few, while viking is null. Tripping on something strong but null.

[dragonspawn]

Dragon seems to get himself in this position in every game.

yeah it gets me into trouble. Ironically if I didn't have some trouble everyone would think I'm scum for not playing usually. If I'm going to get scum read and into altercations with people I may as well have fun with it

Who are your top suspects and why?

Viking and shinobi have been my top suspects for a while. Initially gut reactions on both. I've been debating more recently whether my shinobi read is scum or just anti town.

Viking first pinged me with his RVs vote. Hasn't gotten any better.

[dragonspawn]

Elusive

I'm actually interested in the lynchbait vs. scum conversation. If you called vikingfan or dragonspawn lynchbait - why? If you refer to either them as actual scum (House you in particular seem to use the terms interchangeably at a point) then point out why and the difference.

Viking's play has consistently been direct and has more of an outgoing newbtown than scum feel. He says things with confidence, and sometimes it feels like overreaching, but they always seem to show a clear thought process.
. For example, his 88 is similar to how I felt in response to Wake's 54. It's true I didn't like his 416, with how he doesn't explain his 'interesting' feelings towards Silverwolf or Grib, but I couldn't find any scum thinking 422 was adequate on its own. And in 497 he claims he isn't lynchbait, which is more newbtown overestimation. I would imagine any scum would try to play up their potential shelter.

Also, considering some of the replaces - what is your or this site's theory on replaces having a higher then average chance of being scum?

I think more townie players replace out due to disinterest or being disgusted by a player.

Do people think that this scum slip means someone on viking's wagon is his scum buddy? Why or why not?

I'm not sure it was a scumslip as much as poor or improper word use.

---

Dragon

This is scum trying to get pressure off of himself by going totally passive to everything. LYNCH IT!

I saw the question. Didn't want you to think I'm ignoring it. I'm not sure what to think of quite a number of you guys so far. This is my first game with most of you and it usually takes some time to get descent reads on people.

You seem more genuine in your responses.
. Do you think you tend to withhold your vote in general? How do you typically scumhunt?

of course I piss people off.

Why do you deliberately play this way then? Does it get you results?

---

House

dragon, please don't humor FA's poor push. It's not even worth it.

What is this? Do you not read or not care? She clearly states her opinion here:

That assumes that viking is more likely town then Dragon. I don't think that is the case and I don't see anything from silver that would indicate that she thinks so either unless I missed something.

Playstyles such as mine, ABR's, and dragonspawn's, to name a few, raise flags when people use such a convenient excuse to votepark them instead of actively scumhunt and pressure suspects.

Looking over your meta, I really dislike your playstyle in general. You seem to purposely want to piss people off, and then call them scum for it. Others have noted your willingness to call either scum; and you seem to have lost interest in ABR.

I usually do hold my cards close to the chest day 1. I'll give honest reads but alot of day1 is pro ing and watching and seeing the responses I get, looking for signs of town or scum. When there is something that really piques me I'll go in both barrells see the results.

and I don't usually intend to piss people off. I just tend to because I will ask questions or say things to learn info or get a reaction in either way.

[Aeronaut]

ika(mod)

, will you please confirm that at the time I made my post, you had merely typed, 'vote count holder' there? there was NO vote count there at the time I made my post!

Ok, didn't realize this.

Still, it sort of shows you didn't actually read past page 12, or so.

[dragonspawn]

Yeah House seems to be making a good case for lynching viking

and who if anyone do you think we should lynch?

[elusive]

I’m not really used to the “this post is townie” and then “this post is scummy” way of doing things. It’s seems a bit whiplashy and bipolar. Yes, House that was directed towards you.

I’m not sure about many things in general.

A More Detailed Look at the Vikingfan Wagon and Stuff

*Apologies if I missed something.

Spoiler:

NakedJogger votes vikingfan
Wake mentions he wants to vote Vikingfan
SilverWolf asks Wake why he doesn’t want to put a vote down on Vikingfan
Wake discusses wanting to go after vikingfan but there’s plenty of days left
Vikingfan puts a vote on TSO
Dragonspawn votes Vikingfan (messes up the formatting?)
House calls out dragonspawn for his reasoning for voting Vikingfan
Wake questions many players and specifically states that he wants reactions from Vikingfan
TSO responds to the many votes on him one by one and doesn’t really comment on anything else (basically a huge wall post on his wagon composition)
Pisskop asks why vikingfan is being scumread
Acryon agrees with klingoncelt about vikingfan and votes him
SilverWolf votes vikingfan
Pisskop questions jared615 and votes dragon
Aeronaut votes Dragonspawn
SilverWolf asks for a vikingfan lynch based on his “scum slip”
Klingoncelt votes vikingfan now
Dragonspawn questions vikingfan
Kitz votes Vikingfan based on the “Scum slip”
SilverWolf states that “It seems like every time vikingfan gets a vote, someone else comes along and throws down a vote for dragonspawn.”
Klingoncelt agrees with SilverWolf, adding on that dragonspawn gets lynched early on regularly
SilverWolf brings up the term lynchbait in reference to dragonspawn
Acryon brings up the votes and wagon progressions of dragonspawn and vikingfan and agrees with SilverWolf
SilverWolf agrees with Acryon and how vikingfan’s lynch will help look at the votes on dragonspawn particularly Aero and pisskop and if vikingfan flips town then dragon would be a good D2 vote.
House questions whether scum would vote their buddy to stay off a mislynch
SilverWolf replies, “No, If vikingfan is scum, then dragon is more likely to be town with scum on his wagon. If he's town, then the votes on dragon are not as suspect.”
House states that he is suspicious of people on dragonspawn’s wagon separate from the counterwagon issue.
Aeronaut responds to acryon and explains his reading of dragonspawn (and particularly his vote on vikingfan)
SilverWolf responds to Aeronaut and states that EVERY ONE of vikingfan’s posts read scum to her.
SilverWolf emphasizes her reading of vikingfan as scum over dragonspawn.
FA_Q2 puts a vote on Viking.
Shinobi suspects acryon for being mafia and quotes the votes information as his proof(?)
Pisskop believes that vikingfan is the lynchbait. He questions dragonspawn.
SilverWolf states that she does not believe vikingfan to be lynchbait but straight and out scum. “Plus, he’s an informative lynch due to the counterwagon on dragon”
House also states that vikingfan is not lynchbait but scum. However, he believes that NJ’s theory of him being lynchbait still makes vikingfan a good d1 lynch.
Pisskop states that he agrees with FA_Q2 that vikingfan is lynchbait rather than scum. Unlike SilverWolf, pisskop believes that Vikingfan’s “scum slip” and “RVS question” are genuine and not “feigning ignorance”
SilverWolf states that she notices Aeronaut and pisskop’s resistance to the vikingfan lynch and wants it to go through to get a sense of them as well.
FA_QT states that he actually thinks vikingfan was “feigning ignorance” to cover up his scum slip.
Dragonspawn looks a bit better from this post.
Boonskiies chimes in that dragonspawn’s passiveness indicates scum
Silverwolf asks elusive re: dragon vs. Viking (Anyone else start thinking of How To Train Your Dragon? )
Pisskop responds to elusive’s questions and defends vikingfan as a newb player. He questions dragonspawn, and mentions being suspicious of House.
Vikingfan writes another strange post this time stating that no one is voting for him (okies can there be this level of derpage or has he exhausted the derpage quota ?)
FA_Q2 points out vikingfan’s derpage.
Kitz revotes vikingfan
SilverWolf responds to Vikingfan and particularly his reads on her as being suspicious.
Aeronaut still feels that Viking is lynchbait but he will sheep SilverWolf (also suspects Boon and NakedJogger)

I think vikingfan, dragonspawn, and TSO were the wagons that kind of built off each other or in reaction to each other. If I had to choose one of them to lynch today I would choose vikingfan but I can't tell if he's scum or major derp and my gut says town lynchbait.

vikingfan - major town derpage or scum slip derpage and then trying to cover up by "feigning ignorance?" - Would his scum buddies try to coach him to stop being so derpscum? Would he ask his scum buddies questions about RVS in their chat topic? viking, you should try out somew newbie games.

dragonspawn - Rampage and klingoncelt and a few others point out that this is his style of play. He doesn't read particularly scummy if that is taken into account unless replying to votes on him (aka calls out Boonskiies for calling him out for not scum hunting which is NOU).

TSo - wagon built off quickly on him in RVS and then he basically responded mostly to votes on him over anything else going on.

People I think need to be pressured or questioned:

Croboss - (I know its replacing but whoever takes that slot, its first post was meh and connected to Wake\dragonspawn)
Jared615 - barely posting
TSO - see explanations for Jared and also just the naval gazing rather than moving onto other players
Boonskiies - seems distracted and not posting a lot of tangible
Cheetory - can't find a post of his that stands out in terms of reads
House - just in general seems to do what is expected or asked of him
NakedJogger - uncouthness, ewww. Also it's a beautiful world, have some chocolate or a hug a stuffed animal or like a real person.

In general, I'm not a vote hopper and I also don't follow the crowd. I actally did agree with Wake's post on votes.

Vote: Jared615

Hi there, how's it going? What are your thoughts on the game so far?

Specifically, what are your reads on the following players:
1. Grib
2. Wake
3. vikingfan
4. dragonspawn
5. TSO
6. Kitz

Thank you

P.S. If I missed any questions then restate them, tanks...

[FakedBlogger]

^Was there a point to that mother of all posts other than to fake a townslip?

[Aeronaut]

Elusive, Why go through the entire game and summarize the wagons if you weren't going to vote for either of them anyway?

[elusive]

Elusive, Why go through the entire game and summarize the wagons if you weren't going to vote for either of them anyway?

Mostly to keep track of who said what. If one of those wagons go through, then it'll all be in one place to look back upon. So if viking does flip town or scum, then its clear who led the lynch and what reason they provided or who they agreed to\are possibly aligned with. We have some days left to consolidate and many people haven't spoken yet.

NJ, I don't know. You tell me...

[elusive]

Also, its possible one of the wagons arose to counter TSO. So that was something I thought was important to note.

[SilverWolf]

elusive-Why is Jared scum to you?