Mini 985:Madness at Night: Game over

[SpyreX]

Hiphop, while I agree that it makes sense that millers don't have guns flavor-wise- oh wait, this is a normal game... Mods aren't allowed to do crazy things to roles in normal games, are they? I was just going to say that if he's a deathmiller, the point is to make it so that we have absolutely no way of knowing if he is scum or town, before or after his lynch.

If the argument you're trying to present is this is normal thus non-normal roles aren't present then nopoint for sure is scum and charter probably is as well. Voting for a "cop" under that guise is silly.

Again, though, you've kept the door wide open consistently as long as its either of them. And have claimed a power role and done everything in your power to not actually say what it is.

I don't want to lynch EITHER of them right now. I want you to hang. If it comes down to it I have a large preference for SSBF and, again, AGM is the for sure town one out of the group regardless of SSBF's "investigation".

But, at heart, everyone is losing site of things like this:

I personally don't care between SSBF and Charter. I don't quite see what was initially super scummy about him, but I haven't really liked his play during the end of d1 or d2. But then again, I disliked Charter's play more. You people seem to have other ideas however, and it's more of a 'who do we lynch first' situation. Wait a minute, scratch that.

Which is pure, raw self preservation.

[hiphop]

Spyrex what has changed from yesterday and today? You claimed that charter or SSBF has to be scum. You wagon heavily on SSBF. Yet right now you say, "I don't want to lynch either of them right now." Do or do you not believe that one of Charter or SSBF is scum? Then do something about it. Also do you believe that a gunsmith is present when we have a miller and godfather? Do you believe that the mod would make being a godfather or miller useless?

Almaster and Wicked- Do you guys remember the last game? We are not putting off tomorrow what can be accomplished today. Will we be doing this everytime until lylo. What is to happen then? We guess wrong? No,we have to make the choice now.

Who believes that a gunsmith is in the same game as a godfather? And yes a godfather HAS a gun. For he is the one that makes the kills.

CHARTER IS SCUM. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Look at the facts.

[AlmasterGM]

BACK.

...

WHY ARE LLAMA AND SSBF BOTH STILL ALIVE. WHAT.

@Crypto - SSBF of course. Unless llama flips town. Which he won't.

@hiphop - I don't get it. Why would we lynch on speculation when we could lynch on verifiable claims.

[hiphop]

@hiphop - I don't get it. Why would we lynch on speculation when we could lynch on verifiable claims.

1.Not exactly verified, when I believe llama is town, and I believe you are town. 2.Charter is scum. Does it honestly make sense to you, that there are three cops? Does it honestly make sense to you that there is a gunsmith when there is a miller and a godfather. Not to me. That fake would have worked in other games, but not this one. Like I said, why put off tomorrow what can be done today? Do you believe there are three cops? Why put off your decision? LLama's flip reveals nothing about the other two. Let me repeat, Nothing. So SSBF or Charter. Make your pick.

[AlmasterGM]

It makes perfect sense, if SSBF isn't a cop then there is just a cop and a gunsmith. The cop is watered down because of the miller AND godfather, but the Gunsmith can find the godfather guilty and the miller innocent. He also, however, finds a gun on the cop, which makes his role dubious as well. Balance wise, it's relatively equal to having one sane cop and no godfather/miller, except more confusing.

BUT IF YOU INSIST, SSBF is definitely going down before charter, because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

[SpyreX]

Spyrex what has changed from yesterday and today? You claimed that charter or SSBF has to be scum. You wagon heavily on SSBF. Yet right now you say, "I don't want to lynch either of them right now." Do or do you not believe that one of Charter or SSBF is scum? Then do something about it. Also do you believe that a gunsmith is present when we have a miller and godfather? Do you believe that the mod would make being a godfather or miller useless?

Almaster and Wicked- Do you guys remember the last game? We are not putting off tomorrow what can be accomplished today. Will we be doing this everytime until lylo. What is to happen then? We guess wrong? No,we have to make the choice now.

Who believes that a gunsmith is in the same game as a godfather? And yes a godfather HAS a gun. For he is the one that makes the kills.

CHARTER IS SCUM. No ifs, ands, or buts about it. Look at the facts.

While I DO believe one of them to be scum, that is a separate issue than what llama is up to now.

Further, I will freely admit a backflip and go "ohh thats the setup" if llama flips scum - the preservation factor is far, far more individually scummy than that bit.

I mean, look at it sans the claim-gate going on around it.

[hiphop]

It makes perfect sense, if SSBF isn't a cop then there is just a cop and a gunsmith. The cop is watered down because of the miller AND godfather, but the Gunsmith can find the godfather guilty and the miller innocent. He also, however, finds a gun on the cop, which makes his role dubious as well. Balance wise, it's relatively equal to having one sane cop and no godfather/miller, except more confusing.

BUT IF YOU INSIST, SSBF is definitely going down before charter, because there is no way there are two straight-up cops.

Therefore you agree with me. There are not three cops.

Why do people keep bringing up two staight-up cops? I believe you are insane. Therefore one insane and one sane. Makes a whole lot more sense then a gunsmith in a cop game.

And no spyrex llama is not a seperate issue. If SSBF flips town, llama is town. If Charter flips scum, that would make me believe ssbf is town, so llama is town.

Charter is scum. quote me on that.

[SpyreX]

Insane and sane are, once known, straight up cops.

I'm really tired at the moment but how does SSBF = town == LLama = town ?

[AlmasterGM]

I think he's presuming that, if SSBF is a sane town cop, then I'd have to be insane as a counterbalance and llama would thus be innocent, not guilty.

hiphop why is the only way to resolve this by lynching ssbf or charter. why can't we just lynch llama and if he flips town THEN you look at charter.

[llamaeatataco]

Screw you alamanatee. I've already explained it, rtft.

@Spyrex: How is trying to choose between a scummy person and a person at a crucial point in the chain of claims scummy?

Insane and sane are, once known, straight up cops.

I'm really tired at the moment but how does SSBF = town == LLama = town ?

Ok, if ssbf is town and a sane cop, then that means that alamaster is most definitely not another sane cop. This means he is either paranoid or insane. That means that alamaster's guilty on me either means nothing, or it means I'm innocent. Now, if he flips to be an insane cop, then we have problems. That would make alamaster's guilty useless. If he flips naiive, fml. So, him being town =/= me being town, but it does make it more likely.


And of course I don't want to claim. Should a town PR ever want to claim if they don't have to? I managed to convince the town how stupid certain members were being, and that was enough.


Hmm. This Charter/ssbf one is annoying. I still stand by my ssbf first decision. It will help us sort out the cops... Unless he is scum, then it will just make all of us be unsurprised.

Oh, and about the gunsmith/miller/godfather thing:

@Spyrex: No, I was saying that since it's a normal the mods aren't supposed to alter the powers of roles. I don't have a problem with them putting in a miller, it's not too abnormal.

@Hiphop: Didn't the flavor say they didn't find anything on him revealing him to be mafia? It could be he has his gun hidden somewhere and thus would appear innocent to a gunsmith. I admit that it's a crazy idea, and I agree with you that Charter is scum, but you're being a little extreme.

[AlmasterGM]

If we lynch charter today I will explode. This whole "charter is scum" thing REVOLVES around SSBF telling the truth and there being two cops. WHICH ISN'T TRUE. SSBF claimed YESTERDAY under lynch pressure. One of the ONLY reasons he was not lynched was because of that claim. This is a SIMPLE case of scum fakeclaiming cop and then getting counterclaimed. I don't see why everyone is so willing to believe this far-fetched story of bastard-mod paranoia.

[Wickedestjr]

Still catching up. I have another game to catch up in, so if I seem slow that's why.

I just read pages 16 & 17 and I think crypto is looking better while charter is looking worse.

[llamaeatataco]

alamaster... Why are you so intent on ignoring everything you don't agree with?

Him being scum does not revolve around there being a cop and that cop being ssbf. It revolves around his scummy actions, right up to and including the obvious OMGUS on me and beginning with his lurking. For me it mostly revolves around his refusing to lynch Sando, something nobody has been able to explain to me. Not even him, and he's posted a few times since I brought it up.

[charter]

^I agree with Crypto's statement.

I think Charter's claim seemed like a town claim. Not because it was a counter claim, but the claim itself.

However SSBF's action of saying Almaster is innocent,

after

almaster's claim, rattles my cage. Why as scum would he do that? i really do not think scum would do that.(wifom)

i have been thinking about those two things for the last two days, yet I do not buy three cops. And I don't care what alignment they are, there are not three cops in this game.

SSBF's report, for me anyways, solidifies Almaster town. So scum is among one of the other 2.

I'll go with Charter.

vote charter

Also something that catches my eye is that Charter was supposedly roleblocked. Therefore if he were scum, no confirmed townies. Didn't somebody yesterday on the SSBF wagon say they didn't want to go through SSBF saying he was rb'd day after day. Yet it wasn't SSBF that said he was RB, it was Charter. Granted of course a roleblocker is common, but the fact that it was said before the night, and then he comes out and says it, irks me.

Guys think about this- Charter's claim does not match with the setup. Godfather, Miller. Are you saying that a gunsmith is in the game? I don't think so.

Llama still not going to claim? Your choice, not mine.

If I was scum, why would I just not say that Nopoint has a gun? The only possible scenario is if I'm scum with him, but I don't think anything is considering that. Why would I fake a roleblocking on myself instead of roleblocking SSBF?
I'm not following any of your other accusations against me. I've been in a game with a gunsmith and a miller, probably multiples. You're just speculating on the setup to try and lynch me.

I really didn't have a lot of time, I should get internet on friday, so I'll be able to fully catch up this weekend.

[hiphop]

I think he's presuming that, if SSBF is a sane town cop, then I'd have to be insane as a counterbalance and llama would thus be innocent, not guilty.

hiphop why is the only way to resolve this by lynching ssbf or charter. why can't we just lynch llama and if he flips town THEN you look at charter.

You are correct, as I have explained several times.

Simple, I believe llama is town. And SSBF or Charter's flip will only confirm my beliefs. I am more sure that one of them is scum, than llama being scum. Therefore we should lynch one of them. Hopefully charter.

If we lynch charter today I will explode. This whole "charter is scum" thing REVOLVES around SSBF telling the truth and there being two cops. WHICH ISN'T TRUE. SSBF claimed YESTERDAY under lynch pressure. One of the ONLY reasons he was not lynched was because of that claim. This is a SIMPLE case of scum fakeclaiming cop and then getting counterclaimed. I don't see why everyone is so willing to believe this far-fetched story of bastard-mod paranoia.

Almaster I am not listening to your emotions. You said you were not going to lynch Sando either. Look what he flipped.

When i was playing marathon mafia, I was a cop once. I have never been a cop, that has been able to use his action and live to tell about it, so I was extremely nervous. So when a wagon was built up on me, I was scared. So scared that at L-2, I posted something like, should I claim now, in a way that budja instantly said I was town. I too would have claimed cop under pressure My point i making is I too would have claimed when SSBF did. i wouldn't even give scum the chance to quick hammer me. So his claim does not make him scum.

It could be he has his gun hidden somewhere and thus would appear innocent to a gunsmith. I admit that it's a crazy idea, and I agree with you that Charter is scum.

If it is crazy, why mention it? A godfather has a gun. A gunsmith makes the guns. Therefore a gunsmith would know if the godfather has a gun. If a gunsmith investigates a godfather he would find a gun. A gunsmith is not in this game.

If you agree with me that charter is scum, why isn't your vote on Charter? SSBF and Charter are not scum together. No way. One counterclaims the other. Not happening. So put your vote where your mouth his. Lynching a cop just to prove your innocence does not appeal to me. Lynching a cop because you believe him to be scum, should be your reason. I won't have a problem with an SSBF lynch, because I could be wrong about Charter, but I doubt it.

If I was scum, why would I just not say that Nopoint has a gun? ... Why would I fake a roleblocking on myself instead of roleblocking SSBF?
I'm not following any of your other accusations against me. I've been in a game with a gunsmith and a miller, probably multiples. You're just speculating on the setup to try and lynch me.

Because when he is lynched, it will come back to bite you.

You can't roleblock if you are not a roleblocker, can you? Therefore fake rb.

Why aren't you voting SSBF? Do you believe that there are three cops? Is Almaster scum? Therefore SSBF must be scum, yet you are not voting for him, but for Llama. So either A llama must have a greater chance of getting lynched(scummy), or B you believe that there is a greater chance of llama being scum, then there being three cops,or Almaster being town. I don't believe B, so A must be true. Therefore you are scum.

Spyrex and Almaster- A gunsmith is sort of a cop. So either way you are accepting two straight up cops.

mod: What the heck? Why hasn't SSBF been prodded? Not posting in 6 days is a little extreme. What happened to this rule?

9. Failure to post within a 72 hour period will result in a prod. Failure to respond to a prod within 48 hours will result in replacement.

It does not say players must ask for a prod. Please find a remedy for this error. Thanks

[nopointinactingup]

@AGM and Spyrex:You want to lynch Llama. But how would you account for his townish play so far?
As a matter of fact, answer to this -->

I do

not think

we should lynch Llama yet ( people's reasoning for lynching him is basically because AGM got a guity on him or to use him as a scapegoat to find potential scum ). I believe he is town and lynching him would either give us no information whatsover and give the scums more reasons to WIFOM themselves over this set-up and its possibilities. Think about it, what kinda scum would place his vote on his Godfather then disappear, sworn never to alter his vote for the day? AT these kinds of set-up, I do not think we can trust in the cop's result as much as we trust in our scum hunting. I, and I'm sure most of you, find SSBF most blatantly scummy. Thus, there's no reason to keep being soft on him because of his cop claim. Charter (claimed gunsmith ) was roleblocked but Podium was killed, Not SSBF, our claimed cop. This did not happen because of conspiracy, it happened simply because SSBF is scum. Hence, all those voting for Llama,please go back and reconsider your opinion. The scums expect us to take the easiest way out.

And how do you account for the probability of you being insane?
What would Llama flip tell you?

Guys think about this- Charter's claim does not match with the setup. Godfather, Miller. Are you saying that a gunsmith is in the game? I don't think so.

If there's a roleblocker then it would really fit the tittle "Madness" ..
[/quote="charter"]
If I was scum, why would I just not say that Nopoint has a gun?
[/quote]
Simple, because we'd be lynching you first if you claim I have a gun.

I'm not following any of your other accusations against me.

I've been in a game with a gunsmith and a miller, probably multiples

. You're just speculating on the setup to try and lynch me.

Hmmm .. I seem to remember you said that you were suspicious of my miller claim in Day 1 because you were gunsmith and you believe gunsmith and miller don't go together in a game.

Though I have definite suspicion of Charter, I still think we should lynch SSBF, who's not even trying to defend himself right now. Right now, Charter and SSBF can provide the most insights on what this set-up can be ( of course 1 of them is scum ), so I'd really appreciate it if they get their ass here and tell us what's going on.

[llamaeatataco]

Hiphop,I'm not quite as precise as you. I find both of them scummy, just to different degrees. I can't tell if someone is scummy town, I can just tell they're scummy. I find both ssbf and Charter scummy. However, I still stand by my decision. SSBF's flip will tell us more than Charter's flip will. We don't even have to know his sanity. Charter can be lynched tomorrow.

[Hayker]

SSBF has been prodded. My apologies, I must pay more attention to this.

[Super Smash Bros. Fan]

/prodded

Alright, I'm here.

As for the AlmasterGM is possible scum theory, I feel like an idiot after thinking about it. The fact that I have a "Town" investigation on him does mean that he is town, just that I wasn't thinking right at the time. This is basically the answer to post #603.

I think charter is the most likely second scum. With the evidence that hiphop provided, I am willing to believe it. Now I will still keep focus on llamaeatataco, but I don't think that's where my vote is suppose to be. So,

unvote, vote: charter

.

What is this? You said you doubt that both you and AGM are cops, then go on to say AGM is town but unlikely to be lying. Does this mean you think yourself as scum because AGM can only be town and unlikely lying if he's really cop.

Based on my investigation, I am confident in my town read on AlmasterGM. However, I do find it odd that AlmasterGM would claim cop out of the blue. But it is more likely that we have two cops instead of a cop and a gunsmith. Three investigative roles would be broken in town's favor.

As for the question, no. AlmasterGM being cop would not determind my alignment unless he were to investigate me, and I don't see the point for a cop confirming a cop town while both cops can hit different targets.

SSBF, why didn't you investigate charter?

I was planning on doing so, but Night 1, I felt there was a potential connection between AlmasterGM and Sando, the latter of which flipped scum. So I decided to investigate the person who I thought had the strongest link to Sando. And that's why I got a Town investigation on him. If charter doesn't end up being lynched ToDay like I hope, then I'll investigate him Night 2.

[AlmasterGM]

@llama - I don't care how scummy charter is. He may be scummy, he may not. It doesn't matter. You don't PUT OFF two competing cop claims for another day. The cop issue needs to be resolved NOW, and lynching charter does NOTHING to help with that.

@hiphop - I already said I would lynch SSBF. But not charter. And WTF are you talking about "not listening to my emotions." None of my analysis has anything to do with emotions - it's simple logic saying that SSBF had a huge incentive to fakeclaim cop yesterday because he was scummy then and he's scummy now, so there's no reason we should believe his gambit.

Also, look how SSBF is now backpedaling on me being town because he realizes town might actually buy into this scum gambit via crazy setup theories and lynch charter.

[SpyreX]

GM is still town fyi and of this whole mess is the only bastion of town.

I still want llama dead because of play.

[crypto]

Unvote. Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan.

I still want to dangle Spy at some point in the near future.

[llamaeatataco]

I don't care how scummy charter is. He may be scummy, he may not. It doesn't matter. You don't PUT OFF two competing cop claims for another day. The cop issue needs to be resolved NOW, and lynching charter does NOTHING to help with that.

Exactly.

Unvote. Vote: Super Smash Bros. Fan. I still want to dangle Spy at some point in the near future

I second this.

I still want llama dead because of play.

What play exactly?

Based on my investigation, I am confident in my town read on AlmasterGM. However, I do find it odd that AlmasterGM would claim cop out of the blue. But it is more likely that we have two cops instead of a cop and a gunsmith. Three investigative roles would be broken in town's favor.

Why is 2 cops more likely than a cop and a gunsmith?

[Wickedestjr]

let's look at the potential candidate each person is willing to vote:
Podium: Wicked/Sando
Crypto: Wicked/Almaster
Nopoint: Wicked/Hiphop/Sando
Spyrex: Podium/ Llama
Charter: Llama/ Podium/ Nopoint/ SSBF
Almaster: Podium/ Llama/ SSBF
Hiphop: Nopoint/ Sando
Sando: Llama/ Nopoint
Wicked: Nopoint/ Llama/ SSBF
Llama: Sando
SSBF: Nopoint
Hayker: Everyone

Is this serious? I don’t suspect Llama AT ALL. In fact he is my strongest town read in the game. I’m pretty sure I made that clear. In addition, are you completely forgetting my suspicions of SpyreX and Sando? This tells me that you aren’t even paying attention. More scum points for you.

SIR YES SIR

Unvote, Vote: Sando

I'm on record, again, that there is a scum between charter and SSBF.

I'm also on record that today has been more retarded than most.

I'm additionally on record that if this is a town flip llama dies soon. And if that is a scum flip podium dies.

Why would podium be scum if Sando flipped scum? Podium was one of the strongest supporters of the Sando lynch.

Hiphop, why is that you vote charter because you don’t like there being both a Mafia Godfather and a gunsmith, yet didn’t find it voteworthy that there was a gunsmith and a death miller?

@SSBF - I think we should lynch llama before you. If he flips town, then I'm insane and you might be cop. If he flips scum, like I STRONGLY suspect, then you're 100% confirmed scum, no ifs ands or buts. Also consider the fact that you were insanely scummy yesterday, so there's no reason I should believe anything you say at all.

This makes no sense. You think it is likely that there are an insane and sane cop in the game if llama flips town, yet doubt that this is the case if llama is scum. Why is that?

Almaster story 2 is wifom. If anything I would rather lynch SSBF before Llama. Why? Because if he flips town, you are 100% town, even though you probably are. If scum then it is wifom.

Now you are making no sense. You are considering the possibility of Almaster being insane so why aren’t you considering the possibility of hiphop being insane?

[Wickedestjr]

I just read pages 19-21 and I think I’m going to

Vote: Charter

for reasons hiphop mentions here. In addition, day 1 his suspicions were all the most popular candidates and overall he hasn’t really contributed much of his own thoughts and ideas from memory.

I have no idea why you guys are voting Llama, but I am 99% positive that he is town. @Everybody on the Llama wagon – Do you actually think Llama makes sense as one of Sando’s scumbuddies?