Open 393: White Flag - Day 5

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Town:
Blonde Doctor
Havingfitz
SnakePlissken

Scum:
Huntress
Equinox
Prolapsed Brain

Equinox-Prolapsed Brain makes no sense as a pairing considering her push on vijay Yesterday, so

Vote: Huntress

.

She's ignored vijay all game and ignored Heilo's antics even when they reached the level of objectively scummy. She's scum.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

P.S. Totally forgot to ISO Equinox, which amuses me since it means I still haven't gotten round to looking at potential partner dynamics for myself to compare with what she came up with.

[Equinox]

I get the impression here that you thought of [first paragraph stuff] before you did the ISOing thingamawog. Is that correct?

Yes.

Town:
SnakePlissken

Scum:
Equinox

We can't be friends. That's unfortunate.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Yes.

That bothers me. Because by coming up with objective criteria ahead of time you're reducing agency, which seems beneficial for scum and the natural town action seems to me to be to just start ISOing without any delay.

Town:
SnakePlissken

Scum:
Equinox

We can't be friends. That's unfortunate.

You should ISO Pirate Chemist. That slot's town. And after you've done that, you can vote Huntress with me.

[SnakePlissken]

Argh Mod please alter the moon and night 3 status of this thread or else I'm going to end up spending even less time in the thread. Equinox why u so mad brah?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Snake, you should vote for Huntress.

[Equinox]

That bothers me. Because by coming up with objective criteria ahead of time you're reducing agency, which seems beneficial for scum and the natural town action seems to me to be to just start ISOing without any delay.

You asked me who my hypothetical partners would be, for which I had to come up with a hypothetical situation where I was scum. To answer that question, I had to think about what implications the setup had on my behavior because that information was available.

Equinox why u so mad brah?

Needs more troll face.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

You asked me who my hypothetical partners would be, for which I had to come up with a hypothetical situation where I was scum. To answer that question, I had to think about what implications the setup had on my behavior because that information was available.

Not much of a defense. Yes, the set-up would have implications for which interactions make sense as scum, but that doesn't change the fact that it is weird that you explicitly determined what you were going to look for ahead of time; it's just something you have to take into account when judging things.

P.S. if you're town, just help me lynch Huntress and we'll win the game and my suspicion of you will be completely irrelevant.

[Equinox]

What I don't get is why you're so focused on lynching Huntress when your suspicion of me has been more consistent. If your logic is that it doesn't matter which scum dies today, why Huntress?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

Scum:
Huntress
Equinox
Prolapsed Brain

Equinox-Prolapsed Brain makes no sense as a pairing considering her push on vijay Yesterday, so Vote: Huntress.

My reasoning here seems pretty transparent?

[Equinox]

Oh, yeah. That makes sense.

Let me sit on this.

[havingfitz]

OK...I didn't feel like reading the entire 25 pages of the game so I just skimmed over a lot of the posts as I annotated everyone's votes. Thankfully vijay and Deasvail have both been eliminated as they are both typically detriments to town...and luckily vijay was actually scum in this game (bonus!). So looking over the voting patterns the first thing I look over what the wagons were at the end of each day (and the flip obv). For D1 I also looked at Helio's wagon as we know his flip and it was the D1 DV counterwagon. Votes are in the order they were placed (L to R) and known alignments are colored appropriately, and like it or not, I mark myself as green because I know I’m town. So consider this VCA FMPOV:

D1 on

DV

:.....

vijay

,

Prana

, Kcda/CES, Blondie,

CATF

, PBrain,

Heilo

D1 on

Helio

: Pirate/Snake,

Hoopla

,

Zeek/HF

,

DV

D1 on Other: Equinox, Huntress

D1 Thoughts: I usually assume there are 2 scum on D1 wagons. Given the fact I’m leaning town towards Equinox and Huntress I’m even more of that opinion (2 scum on wagon) in this game. Although all 3 would be a reach…especially with a town self-hammer. Of the unknowns on DV’s lynch I am inclined to think PBrain is scum at this point due to their late hop on the DV wagon (at least compared to the other UNKs). The Pirate/Snake slot looks bad as the only UNK on the Helio wagon when it was at it’s D1 peak (w/all knowns being town).

---

D2 on

Helio

:

Zeek/HF

, Kcda/CES, Equinox, PBrain,

Prana

,

Helio

D2 on Other:

vijay

, Pirate/Snake, Blondie, Huntress,

D2 Thoughts: Heliograph is an idiot for self-hammering as town. I hate that…all it does is reduce scum’s need support a mislynch. That said…IMO there is at least one scum on his wagon. Kcda/CES and PBrain make another appearance on a mislynch along with Equinox. Once again, PBrain getting my vote for scum with a little increased attention going to Kcda/CES. I do not think it would be both Kcda/CES & PBrain as scum because that would put all three scum on the D1 mislynch. For this reason I am also hesitant to suspect Blondie. Pirate/Snake would be my choice for scum off the mislynch wagon.

---

D3 on

vijay

: Kcda/CES, Equinox,

Prana

, Pirate/Snake, PBrain

D3 on Other:

Zeek/HF

, Blondie, Huntress,

vijay

D3 Thoughts: 4 UNKs on the scum lynch. I still like PBrain with the late hammer as a chance to gain town points on a scum lynch. I do not think PBrain mentions vijay once outside of their vote on him. PBrain has been on both mislynches and the scum wagon (as has Kcda/CES).

So VOTE: Prolapsed Brain

FOS

CES, Snake, Blondie (in that particular order)

I would prefer PBrain over any of my FOS’s or Huntress (leaning town) and Equinox (town IMO). If it is PBrain then I don’t have to worry about a 3 rd scum as that would be game.

@CES, in post 625 you say you can’t see Equinox and PBrain as a scum pairing. Why are you treating them as a pair and not independently? If you think PBrain is scum then vote him with me.

I also did an ISO on Huntress because of CES’s current push that way and I don’t see scum ATM. Do you have a case on Huntress other than she didn’t mention vijay nor support a Helio graph wagon? I also did an ISO on PBrain and found nothing of value. I may do more but it probably wouldn’t be until Monday due to Father’s Day/weekend commitments. <- -- On that note, don’t expect much of anything from me tomorrow and Sunday as I will not be online much, if any.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

@CES, in post 625 you say you can’t see Equinox and PBrain as a scum pairing. Why are you treating them as a pair and not independently? If you think PBrain is scum then vote him with me.

Because lynching Huntress will win us the game, whereas lynching PBrain gives a Huntress-Equinox scum team the game. Because the fact that Equinox-Prolapsed Brain doesn't work as a pairing does actually make both of them quite a bit more likely to be town.

P.S. Heilo's self-vote came after he had already been lynched, so that didn't hurt us.

[havingfitz]

^ That's a lousy response. Even if PBrain did happen to be town...which I doubt...it would only lead to LYLO. Not a town loss.

At Heio (in memrium)...disregard my self hammer bashing of you.

Doesn't change my read on PBrain or my FOS's either way.

@CES...you have PBrain in your top 3...don't be so resistant to voting him.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

^ That's a lousy response. Even if PBrain did happen to be town...which I doubt...it would only lead to LYLO. Not a town loss.

Yeah, it would. They kill me overnight and get some chump mislynched.

[havingfitz]

You have PB as scum....look at the first post on this page if you don't recall. Do you now think PB is not scum? What's your case on Huntress again?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I have three people as scum. I'm obviously wrong about (at least) one of them.

The case against Huntress is:
1) she ignored vijay even after I pointed out that contradiction.
2) she ignored Heilo when he was just straight-up objectively scummy
3) PoE

[havingfitz]

I have three people as scum. I'm obviously wrong about (at least) one of them.

The case against Huntress is:
1) she ignored vijay even after I pointed out that contradiction.
2) she ignored Heilo when he was just straight-up objectively scummy
3) PoE

1) You mean the contradiction you are referring to in post 579? Could you elaborate on the contradiciton cause it is unclear to me. I also see that whatever the contradiction was...Blondie thought you suspicious for it. In your vote post for Huntress above you just state she ignored vijay the entire game (agreed)...nothing about any contradiction. Why should it have warranted her attention?

2) She stated she thought he was town. H was town. Was everyone supposed to unanimously think a town player was scum? You're faulting her for getting a read right? If so...shouldn't you fault people for getting reads wrong (ie those on the 2 mislynches)

Why isn't Blondie in your top three...I see similarities with Blondie in regards to your suspicions towards Huntress and you actually got called out by Blondie on it.

You had PBrain and Equinox in your top three in post 569 as well. I don't see why your reads have changed.

Would you support an Equinox lynch instead of a PBrain one?

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

1) You mean the contradiction you are referring to in post 579? Could you elaborate on the contradiciton cause it is unclear to me. I also see that whatever the contradiction was...Blondie thought you suspicious for it. In your vote post for Huntress above you just state she ignored vijay the entire game (agreed)...nothing about any contradiction. Why should it have warranted her attention?

The contradiction is that vijay claimed he thought Heilo was town but posted "How could Heilo be town" which expresses the sentiment that Heilo being town was unimaginable to him. Blonde thought me suspicious for it but she responded to it at least. That's much better. I did say that in my vote post; I probably should've worded my last post better in that aspect, more like "ignored vijay all game, even ". It should've warranted her attention because it was important enough to get vijay lynched.

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

2) She stated she thought he was town. H was town. Was everyone supposed to unanimously think a town player was scum? You're faulting her for getting a read right? If so...shouldn't you fault people for getting reads wrong (ie those on the 2 mislynches)

Being right when you have no business being right can absolutely be scummy. I think the Heilo situation is a good example of that. You pushing redFF for SK in Zach's Large Normal in the way you did is another good example.

Why isn't Blondie in your top three...I see similarities with Blondie in regards to your suspicions towards Huntress and you actually got called out by Blondie on it.

Blonde Doctor has done some incredibly pro-town things.

You had PBrain and Equinox in your top three in post 569 as well. I don't see why your reads have changed.

Pretty much all of the reasons for thinking Huntress are scum are either new or new to me.

Would you support an Equinox lynch instead of a PBrain one?

I'd be somewhat more likely to support an Equinoxlynch but I fully intend to get Huntress lynched here.

[Huntress]

P.S. if you're town, just help me lynch Huntress and we'll win the game and my suspicion of you will be completely irrelevant.

The "we" in that sentence being you and your scum-partners?


I had a null to town read on vijay and at the time I posted 578 I didn't think he was likely to be scum with CES. Looks like I was wrong to dismiss that pairing.

My town read on Heilo goes back to day one and I said then I wouldn't be voting him.

Top picks for remaining scum are CES and Snake. I think there was some serious bussing going on with vijay. I've got town reads on Equinox, PB and BD and I'm adding HF to that now.

For a vote it's a toss-up between CES and Snake. I'm slightly more sure of snake but I'm going to go with CES, due to the fact he was taking advantage of my absence from the thread to try to push through a lynch on me.

Vote: CES

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

The "we" in that sentence being you and your scum-partners?

That doesn't even make sense. Only the town can win it Today.

Feel free to explain why I'd bus vijay if Snake were my other partner.

[Prolapsed Brain]

I AM NOT SCUM

DO NOT LYNCH ME

[Cogito Ergo Sum]

I took a poll and 5 out of 5 puppies agree that Huntress is scum. Vote accordingly.

[SnakePlissken]

Good grief. This is getting more confusing by the minute. I don't want to sheep CES, but I can understand his view point, I'm still thinking prolapsed brain. But then there's captain in danger of tunnelling Equinox to onsider too.