Micro 773: Twin Trap - Game Over

Chara · Post Post #625 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:34 am

i know it's lylo, but it doesn't feel like it. micros.

i don't want to throw away my Guilty townread. it's one i feel very good about and those are usually right. Flubber/Hopkirk seems too PoE but i think it has to be them.
but my radar has also been bad this game. let's see what Guilty says.

Torn Up · Post Post #626 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:42 am

Chara I'll read the game again today and decide

I thought the way you 180ed and pushed NM was scummy btw. why were you scumreading him in the first place? IIRC you had a townread on NM the same day you decided he was a wolf and needed to die.

Chara · Post Post #627 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:50 am

i had a gut townread based on little.
that he continued to not post, vote me, and generally be unhelpful when i know he's seen my town and scumgames and can be helpful town despite being a lurker made he think he was probably just scum. and i had no real reasons to townread him, which is usually a great candidate for scum in the absence of good scumreads.

Chara · Post Post #628 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:52 am

by being helpful town i mean being on scum wagons. the only time he changed his vote was when Flubber missed Mumble's claim. i thought his later vote switch to Flubber was also because he thought i wouldn't be lynched over him.

Chara · Post Post #629 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:53 am

no, i remember what changed it. i thought Mumble was scum for most of the day.

Torn Up · Post Post #630 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:58 am

I'm gonna need help not getting hard pocketed by you

gladly I have cheeky with me

Chara · Post Post #631 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:00 am

don't resist it.
<3

this is where i shine.

but not having confirmed scum to me makes this more difficult. i'm going to attempt to both scumcase Guilty and towncase him and see what i get.

Kmd4390 · Post Post #632 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 7:21 am

Vote Count

Not voting - Chara, guiltylion, flubber, hopkirk , torn up

With 5 alive, it takes 3 to lynch

Deadline is February 9 at 5:30PM EST

Hopkirk · Post Post #633 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 8:42 am

Related prior post.

In post 555, Chara wrote:Hopkirk/Flubber is possible, Hopkirk's voting him but there's not really support for a Flubber wagon. they might be content with the NM/me split.
NM/Flubber is about the same.

The Flubber wagon was L1 until GL left- not wanting Flubber on L1 with NM ingame.
Why does scum me start then support a partner wagon to L1?

Flubber - 3 - hopkirk, guiltylion, torn up
Chara - 2 - not mafia, mumble
Mumble - 1 - chara

Chara · Post Post #634 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 9:11 am

at the time of my post, you were still on Flubber.
possibly a good point against you two being teamed, but i don't discount bussing and need to go look at that.

Flubbernugget · Post Post #635 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 6:43 pm

I will try to reread tomorrow, but I'll still be skimming most of d1.

Hopkirk · Post Post #636 (ISO) » Sat Feb 03, 2018 11:45 pm

In post 634, Chara wrote:at the time of my post, you were still on Flubber.
possibly a good point against you two being teamed, but i don't discount bussing and need to go look at that.

Bussing Flubber before Mumble/TU claimed sounds stupid.

GuiltyLion · Post Post #637 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 8:49 am

okay so quick thoughts:

I have not had time yet this weekend to sit down and reread and dig into this as much as I would like. With the Super Bowl coming up today (going to a party), I won't have time for that until this evening. So I'm not ready to vote or push anything hard yet because I haven't sorted out how I feel.

However as for a quick gut take on where my head is currently at - I think Chara has done an effective job buddying/pocketing me, Chara's tone sounds incredibly townie but their actual content and stances have not been town. I'm most skeptical of that slot, further since it seems every dead townie has been calling for their head - it would feel like bad play to mislynch someone else today in 5p LYLO and let scum!Chara win the game. I also think Hopkirk makes a great point about how Hopkirk/Flubber seems stupid (I would instead say implausible) due to Hopkirk going for a bus ahead of time early on D2.

this might be scum theater because they have to bus eachother at this point though. I haven't ruled out Hopkirk/Chara as a team. Flubber has been all over the place but I started townreading that on D2 because it seemed to genuine/unplanned to be scum.

I'm going to try to do an in depth reread tonight and come to a stronger conclusion about this, but that's where I am right now. I'm sorry I haven't given this game the time it deserves yet

Chara · Post Post #638 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:02 am

it's ok, neither have i.

Hopkirk: yes, you're right. i misremembered.
i'm not discounting bussing or cautious scum.

Chara · Post Post #639 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:07 am

i haven't actually looked at Guilty again yet but i have a hard time seeing his post as one from scum. the read on me is wrong but considering how all the dead players have been reading me i don't even think it's unfair to have.

Chara · Post Post #640 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:09 am

is it really impossible that Hopkirk doesn't bus his buddy here? i should just go back and read it. eventually. by eventually i mean now.

Hopkirk · Post Post #641 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:09 am

Chara/GL

Main notable thing in both ISOs was the mutual hard townreads. These seemed too hard. Interacted with both over them. Didn't like how Chara reacted to my locktown on GL. Didn't really understand GL's- especially 479 where I didn't understand the read strenghtening. Somewhat concerned about GL's read presentation. Hard, but not explained enough to justify the hard townread. The lack of explination positions GL nicely to let GL bus today.

Still not sure whether scum go for such a bold play of mutual hard townreads followed by this lylo play.

Hopkirk · Post Post #642 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:10 am

In post 640, Chara wrote:is it really impossible that Hopkirk doesn't bus his buddy here? i should just go back and read it. eventually. by eventually i mean now.

Bus buddy here =/= bus buddy up to L1 before town prs claimed.

Chara · Post Post #643 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:11 am

In post 633, Hopkirk wrote:Flubber - 3 - hopkirk, guiltylion, torn up
Chara - 2 - not mafia, mumble
Mumble - 1 - chara

but, no, this doesn't really make sense. NM and Mumble were both on me, Torn Up could have easily gone there, and it wouldn't have looked strange for Hopkirk to flip me here.

pedit: i've seen scum do ridiculous busses precisely because regular bussing is expected.

Hopkirk · Post Post #644 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:12 am

GL's read is also consistent as town. If he's town and Flubber/Hopkrik aren't mafia together then Chara is on both possible teams.

@GL: Can you think of anything that makes Flubber/you implausible?

Hopkirk · Post Post #645 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:14 am

In post 643, Chara wrote:
In post 633, Hopkirk wrote:Flubber - 3 - hopkirk, guiltylion, torn up
Chara - 2 - not mafia, mumble
Mumble - 1 - chara
but, no, this doesn't really make sense. NM and Mumble were both on me, Torn Up could have easily gone there, and it wouldn't have looked strange for Hopkirk to flip me here.

pedit: i've seen scum do ridiculous busses precisely because regular bussing is expected.

If me switching to you wouldn't have looked strange then that's evidence against me/Flubber.

Chara · Post Post #646 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:15 am

In post 641, Hopkirk wrote:Main notable thing in both ISOs was the mutual hard townreads. These seemed too hard. Interacted with both over them. Didn't like how Chara reacted to my locktown on GL.

i've already explained my Guilty townread.
it's easy for players of a certain type to see why i'm town. it's why i don't get mislynched. Guilty recognizing as such when the rest of the game doesn't has no scum utility.

that he's still acknowledging it now while saying he'd lynch me sort of hurts that, especially considering he also agreed NM was likely scum, but the fear of having me suspected all game and then losing to me in lylo and feeling dumb about it is also one i understand and feels genuine.

Chara · Post Post #647 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:17 am

In post 645, Hopkirk wrote:If me switching to you wouldn't have looked strange then that's evidence against me/Flubber.

i know. that's what i meant with the post.

Chara · Post Post #648 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:18 am

In post 644, Hopkirk wrote:GL's read is also consistent as town. If he's town and Flubber/Hopkrik aren't mafia together then Chara is on both possible teams.

@GL: Can you think of anything that makes Flubber/you implausible?

is this post to me? what do you mean by town Guilty? you just said he's scum with me.

Hopkirk · Post Post #649 (ISO) » Sun Feb 04, 2018 9:19 am

In post 646, Chara wrote:
In post 641, Hopkirk wrote:Main notable thing in both ISOs was the mutual hard townreads. These seemed too hard. Interacted with both over them. Didn't like how Chara reacted to my locktown on GL.
i've already explained my Guilty townread.
it's easy for players of a certain type to see why i'm town. it's why i don't get mislynched. Guilty recognizing as such when the rest of the game doesn't has no scum utility.

that he's still acknowledging it now while saying he'd lynch me sort of hurts that, especially considering he also agreed NM was likely scum, but the fear of having me suspected all game and then losing to me in lylo and feeling dumb about it is also one i understand and feels genuine.

pedit: my post should read 'my questions about Chara's locktown on GL'.

Why is it unlikely GL- who didn't explain his townread on you significantly- wasn't 'townreading' you while intending to turn on you?