Micro 465: Molla's New Roles Mafia - GAME OVER

[Taly]

Saul, please.

Burn Yakko's Lurker card. Hammer Sns, it's the winning move.

May the Linker and it's "L" live on in this game.

Because if the "L" doesn't make the final connection with that Linker, it will turn into an Inker.

And the Ink from the Inker will stain the town, symbolizing their loss.

As for any image I have obtained Saul - Yes, I was given an image. It is very eerie, and it plays on some of my doubts - but I think it has some intuitive connection to it.

Yeah, I didn't know how well this would play into the flavor I'm throwing into this game.

But it's the truth Saul. Hammer and you'll see.

[saulres]

House ROLESTOPPED ME. My role and abilities were completely ineffective.

...

Here we go again. That's not how House's ability works!

Please

read the game!

For confirmation, there is a game where it got me mislynched in D1. It's currently on-going, but you can look at my wiki and see it - it's updated to it saying my status is: "Sadly Dead" >>> There's only 2 options.

Don't talk about ongoing games. At all. Don't put it in your wiki until the game's over. This is like the #1 most stringent rule on this site.

[Taly]

House ROLESTOPPED ME. My role and abilities were completely ineffective.

...

Here we go again. That's not how House's ability works!

Please

read the game!

Saul, I think YOU need to read the game.

House was a Rolestopper. He could potentially cause scum to not make a kill. You needed that gone. In addition, he already confirmed your role and supported you because of that role. Now you kill him before he changes his mind so you can say "House said I was town and knew my role" even though he's dead.

Sns was saying that House was role-stopping my "supposed kill" on someone. So why are you telling ME that's not how Houses role works when I'm being honest, and Sns is the one insinuating House could have stopped scum from killing someone?

NEWSFLASH: I AM TOWN. SO HOUSES ROLE-STOPPER DID RENDER MY ABILITIES INEFFECTIVE.

[Taly]

I'm sorry if I over-stepped a rule. X_X.... But I am being truthful.

Are you going to keep telling me to read the game or are you going to reply?

[snscompt1]

Ok. That was a mess. Again. Just like the end of 645.

Taly, you're refusing to quote where I misrep you and that's getting old. I haven't misrepped, so you can't quote. I understand, but it's annoying.

Saul. Taly is flailing in the wind and raging hard right now. Tell me how this is a town reaction? You've already said that you're most likely going to vote me. Town!him should be trying to convince you right now. But rather, he's screaming at me in complete gibberish and isn't reading the game or purposely making stuff up to make me look bad.

If you want to dissect Taly, please let me know, because I'm having trouble understand his posts.

Pedit: No. I didn't. I said House

could

roleblock a scum kill. Misrepping again or not reading. I don't know and don't care at this point.

[saulres]

House targeted you. His ability blocks not the person who he targeted, but who his target targeted. You say you targeted shos, therefore

shos

is the one who was blocked on the night he was killed.

So he could, potentially, have blocked a kill, if he targeted someone who targeted the killer. So yes, he could potentially have caused scum to not make a kill.

Saying you're town means nothing, because both you and sns will say that. One of you is lying, so that's not something that can ever be believed. Simple as that.

House's ability at

no point

make

your

"abilities" ineffective.

I am now VERY interested in why you, a writer, chose the plural for that noun.

pedit: This was directed at Taly's 677.

[Taly]

Saul, do you think I targeted shos with my ability and killed him at the same time? I made it sure to House in D2 that I was targeting shos, and I did.

Why would I kill shos and remove another piece of confirmation people could use to reference what my ability does?

"abilities"

I only have 1 ability, but you guys seem to be implying that I can do multiple things. Plus, I'm not the best person with grammar in the world and especially when I'm trying to get a point across.

Saul, are you going to jump on me about word usages? I'm being honest, I can't stress this enough.

Don't you see Sns' responses to me? He keeps referring to me as being a "mess" or saying I'm flailing. He hasn't put up much of a major argument against what I've said.

Do you really think I would have killed off the 2 of the 3 people I targeted - just to get the final person I targeted to die in lylo if I were scum?

Scum would be using this informational ability to preserve themselves, not try and make connections so town could out scum - like how I've been using it.

[saulres]

Okay, Taly: Your ability was confirmed as soon as House confirmed receiving it and MoP flipped scum. That meant that you and House weren't both scum, so at least one of you was telling the truth about your ability. At that point it was confirmed, continuing to use it meant nothing because

Nosy Neighbor is not alignment-indicative at all

. See I can use different fonts too, to hopefully drive this through so you stop saying it is.

I did a check and you used "abilities" throughout the thread to refer to the singular so that line fell dead.

Yes, I think it's

possible

that you targeted shos with your ability and killed him at the same time. That would certainly cover your reason for visiting him if there were any trackers.

sns is correct, your posts

are

a mess. You keep harping on the same thing which means nothing at all. Hopefully after the game has been over a while you can look back and see how it's coming off.

I will look again, later or tomorrow, and what arguments you may have that don't involve your Nosy Neighbor role.

[snscompt1]

He hasn't put up much of a major argument against what I've said.

There isn't anything I can argue against when you've said nothing coherent. The stuff I

have

understood are you saying "I'M TOWN", "SNS IS MISREPPING ME", and "I WAS ROLESTOPPED WHICH MAKES ME TOWN". All three statements are false. You're not town, I have never misrepped you. And you were a middleman and nothing happened to your "abilities".

[snscompt1]

Saul, who do you think House targeted last night? A kill went through so that means something.

[saulres]

House didn't target anyone, he was out of shots. Unless he lied about using them on other nights. With House, who knows?

[saulres]

Oop, no, I'm wrong! He said he didn't use his ability on N1. Meaning he still had a shot (unless, again, he was lying). Gotta ask the mod something.

[saulres]

Posting too quickly. I had said I was out of shots, so he would have had to target either you or Taly. Given he thought you were scum, he would have targeted Taly in the hopes Taly targeted you.

BUT -- that's all speculation. He may not have used his ability at all last night. He left no clues as to whether he did or not.

[Taly]

Arguments that don't involve my nosy neighbor role?

1)

I didn't townread MoP right off the bat - nor did I do it without coming to my own opinion about it.

Yes, I do find genuine thoughts to be indicative of alignment at all sometimes. Also, Yakko never entirely explained their read on MoP from what I've seen

2)

Why would I wait for Sns to replace into the game if I had the chance in D3 to vote and help directly towards his lynch? Why would scum pass up the opportunity for this?

3)

Saul, did you read my SK play? I was on every mislynch hammer, and I didn't claim intent, didn't do much about how I approached the wagon or any thing like that that would have delayed my survival to win the game.

Do you see any of that here? I have been on the lynch wagons, but in D2 - we had no other choice, and in D1 - I didn't outright hammer to avoid more suspicion on myself before someone died. I was also very clear on my reasoning for voting people and I didn't go out of my way to create speculation that would have supported my reasoning.

4)

Also Saul - Don't you find 643 to be quite contrived? Especially the first 2 lines. "Omg. Yes." >>>> Why would town be happy to throw suspicion on someone in lylo, and not back it up with any case or vote?

Sns seemed like he was waiting for me to post something specific, he is trying to use whatever I say back to him, against myself. Don't you see that pattern in his retorts? Not once has he said that he was going to talk to me over what is to happen, all he's done so far is make rebuttals to what I've said to defend myself and convince you that I'm being truthful, and he's throwing tons of apathy at what I say to him. 679, he blatantly says that he doesn't know or doesn't care to reason here, he also is trying to buddy with you saying that you're "the only person he could talk to"

He's trying to butt me out of this and re-state everything I say as something scummy.

5)

Yes, I am flying off the rails a little bit - but that happens a lot when I'm town about that could be mislynched rsulting in the loss of a game. I don't throw AtE at all because what emotions your getting is what you're going to get in these situations.

I've been mislynched in lylo before because of people using what I say against myself, ESPECIALLY when it is truthful. It honestly drains me, and I have good reason to back up my convictions.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=60920

>>

Game where I fly off the rails where I was right about 2/3 of the scumteam, but I got killed and wagoned 90% of D1 - scum wins.

viewtopic.php?f=53&t=61108

>>

Game where I am mislynched as town in lylo when I've made accurate cases against scum.

viewtopic.php?f=83&t=60966

>>

Game where I was an SK, just for reference.

Please, tell me, was I this much of "a mess" in my SK game? I was in lylo, and suspected just like this.

Did I air all of my current feelings and try to go back to ONE argument that ties in together why I think someone is scum? No, I didn't. I just kept throwing possibilities to tell people why I'm town. I was convincing others more than actually defending myself and giving reasons, like I am now.

[snscompt1]

Right which is why I was questioning it.

Ok. So let's say he did target Taly last night. Purely hypothetical as we can't prove it.

Taly targeted me. Which means I was rolestopped. Not that I had anything to do last night but I couldn't have killed House.

The more I think about this, the more it falls into place.

pedit. stuff reading.

[saulres]

I still wanna know why Taly didn't send me his role

[snscompt1]

Since you like lists:

1)

The first reply/comment/thought to or about MoP was this:

OK, we'll see how your heads play in this game. I just think it's cleaner if you had a less volatile reaction. However, I don't believe scum would say that out of the gate(A reason why I am liking the McMenno push, but I want an answer from him). So I am thinking you're being genuine in your response to me for the most part. Very slight town lean.

I didn't townread MoP right off the bat

You never voiced this in any post prior to post 74. So false.

And no. Yakko didn't explain anything anyone asked him as far I can tell besides half assing it.

2)

To not seem eager, to play it right and seem town, to be able to have the hammer vote. You expressed your intention on voting Yakko to just be done with it in post 60

3)

So, you're defending you mislynching people by saying you do that as town? Wouldn't you do that as scum?

4)

Why would town be happy to throw suspicion on someone in lylo, and not back it up with any case or vote?

Because you voted me and Saul didn't. I had been trying to decide who was scum between the two of you and as I've said, I was on mobile and tags are difficult. I made a small case against you, which you're saying I didn't. And at the end of the case, I said "More in a bit. That should get things started."
So, I did make a case and me being excited because you slipped makes sense. So false again.
Why do I need to talk to you? You know I'm town. Arguing and trying to convince you of something you already know, which you will simply refute because you're scum is pointless.

5)

Wow, I forgot we played together in that third game! Definitely going to review that. But that was a bastard game which is a lot different.


pedit: He already said because he wanted to see my reaction. But still, if he positive I was scum, why send scum your role? I'm confused as well.

[Taly]

Saul, I said it in 676

I sent Sns my role to figure out how he would react. I was leaning to you being town at the time, so I wanted to see if Sns would try to use my role and arguments against me(in which case, he's trying - of which I expected scum-him to do in this situation)

I also thought that since you were giving me your picture, that you and I already had some sort of connection, I was more sure of you, you were more sure of me over Sns

I target Sns to truly find if I were correct in thinking he was scum and you were town.

I find that you're town Saul, because you would have hammered my vote on Sns the minute you saw it, since you would have been the last scum, and only needed that vote.

After that, all I've been doing is trying to convince you that I truly am town, and sns is really scum.

Basically, I sent my role PM to Sns instead of you to verify who is town/scum. Now, I just want you to realize me and hammer Sns and win the game. :I

Saul - if I were scum, why would I have killed House? He could have role-stopped me - right? He already role-stopped me N2 to out me from being scum, and to find that Yakko/Sns was truly the scum.

Why would I kill House if he was going to help me? Why didn't I just jump on the Yakko/Sns wagon to kill Yakko and conceal a scumwin? Me waiting for a replacement and me being uncertain of my vote isn't like scum-me at all. It's a lot like town.

And honestly Saul - If I were scum, House would have been my last kill. He confirmed that I was truthful about my role, even if it didn't tell my alignment, he supported me on this versus everyone else - scum would drive on this to stay as a survivalist in a safe position.

And, House was the closest person to townreading me at that point.

It makes PERFECT sense for Sns to kill House, since House was onto him - and already concluded that sns was scum.

Also Saul - you keep withholding info. about what you think scum should say. I really don't know what you're seeing scum would say at ths point. X_X But please, what I'm saying is real here.

I have to go eat and do things now, so I can't reply to sns-scum.

[saulres]

He could have role-stopped me - right?

Sigh. No, wrong. Read the first line of 680 again.

He already role-stopped me N2

Why do you think your ability was stopped on N2?

[Taly]

Also Saul, other than what I said in my previous post about not giving you my role PM

Giving you my role PM would not have given me as much info as giving it to Sns would.

I was suspecting Sns, and seeing how he took me giving him info. would really tell me if he was town or scum in this situation of lylo.

Also, giving you my role PM would not have cleared the small amount of suspicion you and I held for each other at that moment in D3. It would have given hypothetical-concluded-real-scum-sns leverage in pushing one of us to be mislynched as town.

P-Edit, I'm not thinking straight right now, I've had to do exams, deal with some people, and quite a few other things.

I seriously need to go for right now, but listen to what I'm telling you on why I gave Sns the role PM and not you.

also, even if House didn't keep me from using my role, why would I kill him versus why Sns would?

[snscompt1]

It makes PERFECT sense for Sns to kill House, since House was onto him - and already concluded that sns was scum.

And you couldve killed House just to have his last opinions of you be town, thereby making us believe him. And you couldve killed House just to make this argument against me.

Your wifom arguments don't work.

[Taly]

It makes PERFECT sense for Sns to kill House, since House was onto him - and already concluded that sns was scum.

And you couldve killed House just to have his last opinions of you be town, thereby making us believe him. And you couldve killed House just to make this argument against me.

Your wifom arguments don't work.

So... you're going to degrade my arguments as WIFOM, OK...

Do you know how many times scum has told me and to others that "you could have done this just to use this argument"

Seriously, I am not that deep in my scum-play, and if I was - I wouldn't have offed someone that would directly contribute in keeping scum alive(townreading someone who's wincon is to survive), in the hypothetical situation that I am scum. Which I am not.

And really, the idea of saying EVERYTHING I've done in this game leads to this "massive scum plan" I must have is mostly speculation - at least on the parts where you guys are WIFOMing about me killing House.

but honestly, you killing House isn't just speculation to be pulled out of my ass. House was a danger to you, he voted you, and was really convinced that you were scum from how things turned out. You killing House was probably the only thing you could do to preserve yourself as scum. He was a threat, and he probably still would have been if you 2 stayed alive this dayphase because I've been in several games with House.

He doesn't just drop his reads on people he thinks are scum, especially in adverse circumstances in lylo - to where he was already somewhat confidence that he pegged you as scum.

Also in 679

What makes you think I'm raging or flailing? Yes, I am pretty agitated, and why is that anti-town? I'm trying to get it across to town(Saul) that you are the last scum and we keep having to go back and forth, back and forth with arguing with each other because a decision isn't being made. No matter what I've said in return to you, you breed apathy yet again about how you don't understand my posts, nor do you even care to try.

691

1)

Yeah, it's the fact that Yakko did half-ass a townread on MoP with no explained reason seems pretty weird, at least everyone had a coherent idea of my thought process in townreading someone. Even if Yakko was never asked, he didn't do much interaction with MoP so it's a little off that he just townread them like that?

Also, I had a slight town lean on MoP in D1, it somewhat faded in D2 - and partially because of roles, we had no other choice but to lynch them. Seeing their flip, it makes a lot of sense of how Yakko-scum would just townread MoP for really no reason. They were partners.

2)

This is a blatant lie. 60 isn't even FROM me. Nor did I say I was thinking of voting for Yakko in D1.

3)

I mean, wouldn't you get on wagons and push anyone if you were town? That gets a lot of info.

No, I never said I was town because I'm on mislynch wagons, thanks for that slight misrep. I said how I treated wagons in that game when I was an SK were different than how I treated them now.

This is not Scum-Taly's pathological vote history at work here.

4)

Because you didn't vote for me right out of the gate, you wanted a CLEAR definitive path and reason to show how "true" your vote was against scum.

Yeah, I get it - Because that's what I did in my SK game, and I won. Town burned.

I mean - Why do I need to talk to you? You and I both know you're scum. So, why are you replying to me? A bit afraid here?

5)

What makes you think this isn't a bastard-type game? Literally, this is new-roles convention here. The mod even said that there were bastard roles in this game earlier in this thread.

[snscompt1]

So... you're going to degrade my arguments as WIFOM, OK...

Well they are. You're using speculation and saying what scum!me would do. That's the definition of WIFOM. So yes.

Seriously, I am not that deep in my scum-play, and if I was - I wouldn't have offed someone that would directly contribute in keeping scum alive(townreading someone who's wincon is to survive), in the hypothetical situation that I am scum. Which I am not.

More wifom.

And really, the idea of saying EVERYTHING I've done in this game leads to this "massive scum plan" I must have is mostly speculation - at least on the parts where you guys are WIFOMing about me killing House.

So now you're degrading my arguments by calling them wifom? Right. Well the are, but refer to my first quote of you in this post. Hypocrite.
More wifom arguments about the NK. I've made the same to you.
Being agitated IS anit town. Whether you mean it or not. It prevents the other town members to grasp what you're saying. I have tried to understand many of your posts. But the parts where

YOU FUCKIN

change

the

font

and shit

and state false incoherent statements is beyond what I have time for since I KNOW you're scum. Why do I have to listen to your posts at all? You're scum. The only reason I responding now is to convince Saul.

[snscompt1]

1)

Ok.

2)

Well obviously I wrote the wrong number. Stop raging. It was post 598. Which is post 60 in your iso.

3)

No. I wouldn't. Not unless I thought they were scum or they needed pressure.

4)

I was on mobile. Read please.

Why do I need to talk to you? You and I both know you're scum. So, why are you replying to me? A bit afraid here?

I reply to you, you reply to me, yet because I reply that makes me scum. Fine. This is the one of the most ridiculous reasons I've ever seen considering I can say the same thing back to you. Yet, I'm not. Why? Because it's ridiculous.

5)

There is a difference. These role have some coherent thought that make the game balanced. That didn't.

[Taly]

697

Honestly Sns, if you're going to accuse me of doing WIFOM ad being a hypocrite, then you seriously need to look back at your own posts.

everything both of us are saying so far have been said. Arguing more is just going to be more of a clusterfuck.

Also, stop throwing around "stog raging, you're ragining."

Nothing about my recent posts indicates raging and keep re-iterating that I need to read the game when I have 2 eyes myself is honestly striking nerves here.

I'm just tired and frustrated, and I'm honestly done responding to you.